Topic 'Re: What Is A Crime?' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15656449 en Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:14:54 EDT Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:14:54 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15745901 what did he do.

1) Listen to some Legal radio band.
2) Transmit on the Legal band.

No cracking of codes or passwords. This is what it really is listen and transmit on legal radio bands.

It is like use a CB radio or the walkie talkies.

sow/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15745901 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:11:16 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15695939
»www4.law.cornell.edu/usc ··· 00-.html

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 47 > § 1030 Prev | Next

§ 1030. Fraud and related activity in connection with computers
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15695939 Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:16:47 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15673061 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15673061 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:38:00 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672956 Hence it is always encrypted.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672956 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:38:04 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672576 said by marigolds:

Wifi is always encrypted.
Except for the case were Mr. Kiddie Porn got busted, the WIFI he used was not encrypted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672576 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:05:34 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672557
Tell you what, you push to get a law making any sort of WIFI freeloading illegal, and I'll push for every citizen in the US to have the right to bear nuclear weapons because of our 2nd amendment rights. What would you think if the airheaded blonde that lives next door to you just bought a nuke because it was new, hip, and finally obtainable for someone like him/her? Would you feel comfortable? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672557 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:59:28 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672521
And for all you people posting stuff like "well if my car was unlocked..", don't forget that you can not just drive a car legally without a damn license. You wanna stop majority of WIFI freeloaders, let's pass a law requiring a license of some sort before you are even able to own a computer. This way the only people that are getting into WIFI networks are getting in there because:
1) They were given permission to
2) or they are hacking it anyways

Crime can not be prevented, otherwise there would be no need for jails, right? Why punish the freeloaders unless they forced their way in (AKA hacking) when the people that should be punished are the idiots that don't read instructions? Maybe watching your bandwidth creep because people are accessing your WIFI network (because you are too dumb to set up security ro too cheap to pay someone to do it) is a good punishment, IMHO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672521 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:49:09 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672484
This is a stupid topic, honestly. I could not agree more that computers do require a certain know how. RTFM or pay someone to do it for you, EOF.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15672484 Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:38:08 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15671440 There's a huge difference there: Intent.

And there you have the problem - intent, or rather, the proving thereof. How can it be proven beyond reasonable doubt that someone is accessing wifi for a non-nefarious purpose? How do you know for sure that the person is benign?

Any time the law is brought into a situation, it must be able to define what is or is not legal, regardless of intent. Stealing bread to feed a family is still concerned to be stealing bread, even if it garners a lighter sentence. It needs to be determined whether or not such an activity is considered theft or not and prosecuted in that regard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15671440 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:43:13 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668736
Again, you miss the point and I could really care less to get involved in another one of 12,000 threads about is it right or wrong to use someone's connection that you don't pay for or own.

My point is plain and simple, but you too over looked, people here are talkinga bout what's legal and not when it's clear that there really is no law defined, yet.

However, what you are doing by making changes to their network router? I can guarantee you that if you were caught, you'd be facing Johnny law. I believe this is preying on the weak?

This has to be the worst example of justifying bad behaviour ever. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668736 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:07:32 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668635 said by fiberguy2:

I could give a rats ass less what one thinks they can do or not do with WiFi access. My only thought is that people are low life scum for freeloading from someone else - period. ESPECIALLY when one doesn't plan or care to purchase their own.Call me low life then, but MY view is my neighbor is being generous because they don't use their connection much. I love free internet. I loved NetZero for free dialup, and I love both of my neighbors (3 total hotspots, 2 un-secured) for giving up the internet to at least 4 other PC's NOT part of their network. I was nice enough to change the default password, knowing that they could simply remove it by holding reset for 15 seconds. It's been a year now, and nobody has bothered to reset the admin password, because nobody knows jack about their router. Ignorance paid off, because I protected him in the end from keeping his router from being "owned" by someone who had malicious intent (can we say "upload corrupt firmware?"). Get off your high horse, start flaming the manufacturers for their carelessness in forcing the user to protect the WiFi. Default passwords are stupid, we need unique identifiers for each unit sold to force protection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668635 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:49:06 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668508 said by Techman21:

Say I were to have a database that allowed employees to telnet into it, as long as they know the correct IP as it is not advertised on the net. Yet a guest account was left for those employees that forget their passwords. And a non employee was to access the database. That guest account is not saying come one come all and join in. If unauthorized access was still achieved by that non-employee I'm certain that a court would find a case in the favor of the company as its intention was not to allow others outside of the business access the site.

Granted that is somewhat of a poor example.
No, more like the court would not do much unless $10,000 of damage was inflicted. Then they would probably fine you for leaving personal info in the open, unsecured. Very poor example, because you would walk away just as screwed as you were when the data was stolen...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668508 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:25:07 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668109 said by Skippy25:

It is like that in most places to bhe best of my knowledge (don't even get me started on that law), but that is not the point. You still can't take that car for a joy ride just because it is there.
You totally missed my retort. Basically, instead of making this illegal, make leaving it unlocked and unattended illegal, THEN make it illegal, so it won't get abused as just another reason to sue someone. This way the legit HotSpots can be ran without the user worrying if the owner will sue. Just ADMIT IT, it's not difficult to lock it down, if you don't, you deserve the abuse. Thats all anyone here is saying. This is beating a dead horse. IT'S DEAD ALREADY, YOU CAN'T SUE IF THE SIGNAL CAME UP ON MY SCREEN AND OFFERED TO CONNECT ME. Blame the router owner, or the O/S manufacturer for making it so easy to "accidentally" steal (or intentionally steal, whatever floats your boat.).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15668109 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:11:44 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15667686 but theft is theft regardless if they secured the signal or not..

You have to realize it there is no law saying a person has to secure their wifi signal... so it really isnt your place to tell them to secure it..

if your stealing a wifi signal on which your not paying for it is theft..

Although i do agree if the public library does offer free wifi access then you should be able to use it anywhere within the range of the signal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15667686 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:06:51 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15666122 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15666122 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:24:56 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665882
(for those who are not familiar with the community bicyle programs, see »www.ibike.org/encouragem ··· .htm#usa)

Many routers even give you the ability to keep your wifi channels bandwith down and give the system a protected channnel so that your system doesn't grind to a crawl when you choose to participate in such a give away. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665882 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:38:51 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665859
It got the job done. Conversations here get heated and to ME, that's fine. I could care less if someone says I am wacked in my views and opinions just so long as someone contributes something to the topic at hand. We all will dissagree at times, but to simply attack another member here for pure entertainment? Well, it shows that someone here has nothing better to do, or is purely brave while sitting in their protective apartment behind a keyboard and internet connection instead of saying such things to someone's face.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665859 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:34:18 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665777 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665777 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:21:18 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665572
In Va the code is: § 18.2-374.1:1. Possession of child pornography; and is a felony crime. So yeah he was most likely arrested for accessing child porn for personal pleasure which is not a legit purpose at least in the U.S. Because apparently certain people are allowed to view child porn for research.

If you don't understand what you are buying then read a book and get a clue, otherwise don't bother with it. Computers demand a certain know-how & knowledge. If you don't possess it then learn or don't bother. We don't need laws to govern every little damn detail because people don't know how to operate equipment. If that were the case MS should have been out of business long ago because they have grossly neglected the security in every version of windows, with exception to maybe 1.0. You can patch every flaw that currently has a patch and still be vulnerable to an attack. So what? You going to sue MS for negligence? Even with closing up a wifi network if someone really wanted to get in they could. WIFI AS IT IS, IS NOT SECURE! NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Its open-air...the whole idea of wifi is insecure.

Now one argument that could be used in the defense, which I'm unsure whether it has been posed or not...

Say I were to have a database that allowed employees to telnet into it, as long as they know the correct IP as it is not advertised on the net. Yet a guest account was left for those employees that forget their passwords. And a non employee was to access the database. That guest account is not saying come one come all and join in. If unauthorized access was still achieved by that non-employee I'm certain that a court would find a case in the favor of the company as its intention was not to allow others outside of the business access the site.

Granted that is somewhat of a poor example.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15665572 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:08 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664931 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664931 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:58:52 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664865 said by marigolds:

Here's the question. You can receive those signals, but can you decode them? Think about military band GPS and satellite TV. Both signals are legal to receive but not legal to use without express permission.
If it's an encrypted broadcast, such as Satellite TV, and you break the encryption, yes, illegal. Otherwise, it's called "Free To Air" or FTA. Next analogy please....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664865 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:51:12 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664846 said by Buchanon Nykad :

Here's a counter argument. If you forget to lock your front door, does that give permission for anyone to take whatever's inside? (Feel free to include your address)
No, but that gives the insurance agency a reason NOTto issue any reimbursement checks because lack of security/carelessness. So how can you take someone to jail for your stupidity???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664846 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:48:50 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664377 said by Skippy25:

And you getting in the car and driving it around is still illegal.

I can park the damn thing on your front porch with the keys in it and the motor running and you still can't legally enter it, nor can you legally take it for a joy ride.
Not in Florida. We have "idiot" laws. If you leave your keys in an unattended car, you could get a ticket, or goto jail. I think thats the way it SHOULD be.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664377 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:41:37 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664109 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15664109 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:12:35 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15663488
Am I a freeloader for breathing the oxygen coming out of their plants in their garden? I didn't pay for that either.

I'm using their resources without their permission or their knowledge.

In most cases, connecting to someones WIFI isn't depriving that person of anything. It's a different matter when speed bottlenecks and caps are involved, but otherwise, what damages are there?

If someone used someone else's link for checking email or browsing the web, with zero impact on the source, exactly what harm is caused?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15663488 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:59:36 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15662903
(Sorry for the rant, but lets look at it this way, if an ISP left the default settings including passwords and usernames, set for their routers, all hell would break lose, and everyone here would say "what idiots". This is no different, it's the users "responsibility" to keep this from happening, it even says so in the manual).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15662903 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:15:24 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15662187 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15662187 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:13:53 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15661523 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15661523 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:23:34 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15660079
I can park the damn thing on your front porch with the keys in it and the motor running and you still can't legally enter it, nor can you legally take it for a joy ride.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15660079 Sat, 11 Mar 2006 02:07:13 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15659021
And it is clearly a crime (no grey area) that using a wireless connection without the knowledge or approval of the person who is the owner is Theft.
Here is the Criminal code to remove all doubt!

Theft

Theft
322. (1) Every one commits theft who fraudulently and without colour of right takes, or fraudulently and without colour of right converts to his use or to the use of another person, anything, whether animate or inanimate, with intent

(a) to deprive, temporarily or absolutely, the owner of it, or a person who has a special property or interest in it, of the thing or of his property or interest in it;

(b) to pledge it or deposit it as security;

(c) to part with it under a condition with respect to its return that the person who parts with it may be unable to perform; or

(d) to deal with it in such a manner that it cannot be restored in the condition in which it was at the time it was taken or converted.

Time when theft completed
(2) A person commits theft when, with intent to steal anything, he moves it or causes it to move or to be moved, or begins to cause it to become movable.

Secrecy
(3) A taking or conversion of anything may be fraudulent notwithstanding that it is effected without secrecy or attempt at concealment.

Purpose of taking
(4) For the purposes of this Act, the question whether anything that is converted is taken for the purpose of conversion, or whether it is, at the time it is converted, in the lawful possession of the person who converts it is not material.

Wild living creature
(5) For the purposes of this section, a person who has a wild living creature in captivity shall be deemed to have a special property or interest in it while it is in captivity and after it has escaped from captivity.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 283.

Oysters
323. (1) Where oysters and oyster brood are in oyster beds, layings or fisheries that are the property of any person and are sufficiently marked out or known as the property of that person, that person shall be deemed to have a special property or interest in them.

Oyster bed
(2) An indictment is sufficient if it describes an oyster bed, laying or fishery by name or in any other way, without stating that it is situated in a particular territorial division.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 284.

Theft by bailee of things under seizure
324. Every one who is a bailee of anything that is under lawful seizure by a peace officer or public officer in the execution of the duties of his office, and who is obliged by law or agreement to produce and deliver it to that officer or to another person entitled thereto at a certain time and place, or on demand, steals it if he does not produce and deliver it in accordance with his obligation, but he does not steal it if his failure to produce and deliver it is not the result of a wilful act or omission by him.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 285.

Agent pledging goods, when not theft
325. A factor or an agent does not commit theft by pledging or giving a lien on goods or documents of title to goods that are entrusted to him for the purpose of sale or for any other purpose, if the pledge or lien is for an amount that does not exceed the sum of

(a) the amount due to him from his principal at the time the goods or documents are pledged or the lien is given; and

(b) the amount of any bill of exchange that he has accepted for or on account of his principal.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 286.

Theft of telecommunication service
326. (1) Every one commits theft who fraudulently, maliciously, or without colour of right,

(a) abstracts, consumes or uses electricity or gas or causes it to be wasted or diverted; or

(b) uses any telecommunication facility or obtains any telecommunication service.

Definition of “telecommunication”
(2) In this section and section 327, “telecommunication” means any transmission, emission or reception of signs, signals, writing, images or sounds or intelligence of any nature by wire, radio, visual or other electromagnetic system.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 287; 1974-75-76, c. 93, s. 23.

Possession of device to obtain telecommunication facility or service
327. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, manufactures, possesses, sells or offers for sale or distributes any instrument or device or any component thereof, the design of which renders it primarily useful for obtaining the use of any telecommunication facility or service, under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the device has been used or is or was intended to be used to obtain the use of any telecommunication facility or service without payment of a lawful charge therefor, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

Forfeiture
(2) Where a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (1) or paragraph 326(1)(b), any instrument or device in relation to which the offence was committed or the possession of which constituted the offence, on such conviction, in addition to any punishment that is imposed, may be ordered forfeited to Her Majesty, whereupon it may be disposed of as the Attorney General directs.

Limitation
(3) No order for forfeiture shall be made under subsection (2) in respect of telephone, telegraph or other communication facilities or equipment owned by a person :)communication service to the public or forming part of the telephone, telegraph or other communication service or system of such a person by means of which an offence under subsection (1) has been committed if such person was not a party to the offence.

1974-75-76, c. 93, s. 24.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15659021 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:12:45 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15659010 said by djrobx:


I equate using an open access point for light tasks as someone pulling into my driveway to do a 3 point turn-around real quick. Legally it's probably tresspassing,and it's something one probably shouldn't do, and is not real courteous, but no lasting harm is done so I just tolerate it. No harm no foul. :)
It's not just trustpassing.

In most states, that's a moving violation. You can't use private property (without permission of the owner) to operate a moving vehicle. Same as using a gas station on the corner to get around a red light.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15659010 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:07:47 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658445 said by 88615298:

If people don't want their signal "stolen" then SECURE it. PERIOD. How lazy do you have to be to not do that?

As far as the library thing. Well it's a PUBLIC library paid with PUBLIC tax $$ so what difference does it make if someone is using the signal from inside or outside?
This I can agree with. The library was paid for with public monies [tax $ from you & me]. I essentially 'paid' for the library, so I should be able to use it's resources.

If the library restricts the use some way, they should encrypt it somehow [WEP, WAP, ect.]

And it's not so cut & dried. I know of someone who has some many unsecured connections they always have to make sure they have their own. Not much of an inconvenience, but should we have to do this?

It all comes down do the same thing - secure your connection, by some means!!! It may be argued that using someone else's bandwidth is theft and that just because something is available, doesn't mean you have to use it, but this is being blown out of proportion.

And as for having a law that wi-fi for businesses must have some encryption - good idea. Not to say that home users don't, but businesses can have a lot of financial information on their sites, and if it's wide open, that's an invitation to trouble.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658445 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:23:19 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658162 What I think is funny is a radio scanner law that says that it is legal to listen to broadcasts, but it is illegal to tell anyone else what you heard! So it's hard to tell what the laws are relating to this...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658162 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:36:43 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658159
I could give a rats ass less what one thinks they can do or not do with WiFi access. My only thought is that people are low life scum for freeloading from someone else - period. ESPECIALLY when one doesn't plan or care to purchase their own.

The actual debate of if it's legal or not? I could care less.

What makes me laught he most is that people here seem to think they know the law when it's clearly not defined.

There is ONE thing, that I will tell you that HAS been defined as legal or not - If you are in someone's network and poke around where you are not supposed to, I'd be carefull or stock up on lube and plan to spend time away from your family or home for a while.

Just remember that the very same box that acts as a gateway also can give you access to someone else's computer or network and getting in that area is VERY dangerous to your freedom.

One thing, specifically to you Barnett, no one is 'intentionally' sending radio waves on to your property. You're just getting the fall out. What I have a question to ask you is "are you smart enough to know which is your router and which is your neighbors? Are you capable of knowing the name of your router vs. others? If you don't have a router, are you capable to know NOT to connect to any of them because none of them are yours? Do you know that, if you don't subscribe, that you don't HAVE internet access at all TO connect to? Are you intelligent or aware that internet access IS a subscription service in this country unless there is a specific place/entity offering it?" I think you will be surprised that many of the questions I just asked are going be the very questions asked in court should it come to this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15658159 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:36:20 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657744
Wireless is insecure, and there are ways to prevent a signal from being picked up or even blocking out users you don't want on your network. All these "come on in!" comments are basically talking about the router broadcasting itself. This can be turned off and from there you will need a passive scanner to detect the access point let alone get it's name before you can even join it. Even yet this is not security, this is simply playing hide and go seek.

Another option will be to use encryption WEP is not secure and be cracked in only minutes to seconds. Most likely I would suggest WAP2 which for now has no known exploits or cracks beside dictionary attacks. Even then it's possible to get in. That's why you begin only allowing the MAC addresses which are able to access the router. Which provides also some level of security.

You might also want to go static instead of DHCP. If you have like 3 computers simply tell the router to allow only 3 IP's. Anything else should have no need to access the network.

Either way wireless has been proven to be insecure and should only be used if monitored by someone who knows what there doing. But most people just plug it in set there computers to connect to "linksys" and the router handles everything from there. The

P.S When I say router I mean it as a wireless router.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657744 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:34:19 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657481
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657481 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:56:07 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657382
Because that is what you are looking at for the vast majority of unintentionally open APs now... a router configured with a default username and password opening them up to easily bypassing any existing encryption.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657382 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:29 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657368 said by waldoooo:

using someone else's connection without permission is stealing whether or not its secure. If I park my car on the street and accidentally leave it unlocked, does that make it right for someone walking by to take my laptop on the seat? Signal theft is wrong, its taking something you are not paying for.....
Bad analogy. Have your car parked with a sign that says, "take a ride for free" is more apt. If you don't want your car driven don't put up the sign. The same goes for wireless routers. Really people, all you have to do is assign a username and password to gain access to your bandwidth. It's that simple. You don't want anybody in you don't give them the access credentials.

Now when someone hacks into your bandwidth IN SPITE of you closing the AP then you definitely have something that should be illegal. The thing is there are people who actually don't mind others using their bandwidth and purposely keep their AP open on the router just for that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657368 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:39:36 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657272 --
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657272 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:24:44 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657255 said by djrobx:

There's a huge difference there: Intent. There's nothing nefarious about jumping onto a neighbor's wifi and surfing the web. It is highly unlikely that the neighbor who set up the unsecured access point would ever know it was happening.So, using an AP to download email is okay, but using an AP to download email containing child porn worm is not?

Accessing a website is okay, but accessing a child pron website is not?

How about unintentional harm, like downloading a worm via email, or accessing a website that downloads network compromising software? What if the user accidentally opens up the network to attack from those with nefarious intent (something all too common for intentionally open wifis)?
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657255 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:21:57 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657252 said by Scilicet:

The arrests have led to plenty of confusion in the media and among law enforcement over what constitutes a crime.

It seems quite clear to me. Freeloading is theft, period.
I'm not one to agree about using others' wifi being theft, but I think I'm about to join that boat. Think of it like stealing cable: Just because your neighbor doesn't have a lock on the box on the side of their house doesn't mean you can run a cable to it and use their service. With wifi you're basically running a virtual cable to their WAP to use their service. Just cuz you can't physically see the connection doesn't make it not a connection.

Now, don't get me wrong, everyone should lock up their WAP, especialy since you don't need to be even near it to use it. But, if they purposely leave it insecure for others to share then of course its not and shouldn't be considered theft.

This is with the idea that the connection to the WAP is on some else's private property that you don't possess.

Also, it doesn't matter if the signal is entering your "space" as your cell signal (tower and phone) is entering mine, along with your satellite signal that you paid to convert. Because of this, does it allow me to take this signal and convert it however I want on your dime and use your cell signal as my own? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657252 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:21:45 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657159 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657159 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:08:04 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657058 quote:
If someone doesn't patch their Windows computer, it gets hacked, and CC #'s stolen....

who is wrong? Isn't that just an invitation to take data? It's the exact same argument, just a different piece of hardware.

In this case, the user of the unpatched computer left a sign on it saying "Here, have my credit card number".

No difference
There's a huge difference there: Intent. There's nothing nefarious about jumping onto a neighbor's wifi and surfing the web. It is highly unlikely that the neighbor who set up the unsecured access point would ever know it was happening. Bandwidth currently isn't charged by the byte, it's use it or lose it. I obviously wouldn't condone large file downloads or other activities that will cause noticeable slowdowns for the paying user.

If you take someone's personal info and use their credit cards, they WILL know, it WILL cause them hardship, and it IS theft.

I equate using an open access point for light tasks as someone pulling into my driveway to do a 3 point turn-around real quick. Legally it's probably tresspassing,and it's something one probably shouldn't do, and is not real courteous, but no lasting harm is done so I just tolerate it. No harm no foul. :)
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657058 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:50:24 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657044 said by knightmb:

said by Scilicet:

The arrests have led to plenty of confusion in the media and among law enforcement over what constitutes a crime.

It seems quite clear to me. Freeloading is theft, period.
If you have a sign outside of your door that says "free money" and a huge pile of money next to it. Are you going to arrest everyone that comes up to grab some cash and yell "thief!".

I see wireless access the same way. Everyone knows that this little device allows *any* computer to connect to it and get Internet access. If you don't want that, then you secure it, even if it's just plain old 64 bit WEP, it's better than nothing. If someone breaks into it and then starts stealing bandwidth after you already put in the "no freeloaders sign" encryption on, then I can see it being a good reason to arrest someone for stealing.

Anything else is just media hype and people looking to get 15 seconds of fame as far as I'm concerned.
thats BS, using someone else's connection without permission is stealing whether or not its secure. If I park my car on the street and accidentally leave it unlocked, does that make it right for someone walking by to take my laptop on the seat? Signal theft is wrong, its taking something you are not paying for.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657044 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:48:47 EDT Re: What Is A Crime? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657034
As far as the library thing. Well it's a PUBLIC library paid with PUBLIC tax $$ so what difference does it make if someone is using the signal from inside or outside?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-What-Is-A-Crime-15657034 Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:46:42 EDT