AT&T Midwest → 6MB down/1.5MB up in Dayton, OH?

I called AT&T Yahoo DSL and they told me they offer 6MB down/1.5MB up in Dayton, OH for $29.99 (Elite package for residential line - one year contract). Since I am less than 0.3 mile from the server I signed up. I am supposed to get FULL speed on both sides.
My due date to get the service is Aug 29 (in 4 days from now). I wonder if anyone else has this package and what kind of speeds they are getting.
I connected my 4100 modem to the line today (again, 4 days earlier than the due date of the service) and I am getting DSL service. Speeds: 4996kbps down/626kbps up.
Customer service didn't even know how in the world I am getting dsl service since they haven't connected it yet to my line! I explained to them my speed and they told me to wait untill the due date and see if the upload speed (which I am more concerned bout) is going to increase.
Any thoughts?

1.5mb upload on elite? First I've heard of that, 768 upload is the normal sync rate for elite. You are already seeing the average throughput for elite, up and down.

I've never seen an upstream sync with a MAX of 1.5M. Don't think it is possible.

The service date is the date by which your service is to be active. Not uncommon for service to be hot ahead of time.

SBCatt's history of synch rates is in this FAQ »AT&T Midwest/Ameritech FAQ »AT&T HSI Package History . Like others said, your are about on target for the speed.

In your post, you put FULL in all caps. I don't know why you did that but you will have gotten full speed if your modem reports synch at 6016/768 for Elite.

SBCatt sells service based on synch rate and your actual result will usually be about 15% less than that for overhead (mostly ATM). Your test results indicate you've 'bout got it.

If you see a difference, it'll be onsey-twosey stuff and nothing on a significant scale.

And, that's about three for three.

Believe me, if 1.5mb upstream were available.. I'd have it in a heartbeat..
I live in Beavercreek, and here's a speedtest I just did:

»support.sbcglobal.net/cg ··· obal.net

"Tears coming down" Why can't we just have the 1.5M Up ! "sniff" it's too good to be true !

This is impossible with ADSL. The protocol limit is 8192/1024.

That's my understand too, specifically on the upload side.

Could be ADSL2 or ADSL2+...

ADSL2 or ADSL2+ isn't even a standard yet. Come on dude . The only thing that would be different is project lighspeed and that hasn't even touched Ohio yet.

Not a standard??? What?? Yes it is. It is just not in deployment by AT&T, BellSouth or Verizon.. Or I should say enabled. They are all deploying ADSL2+ capable equipment.

Project light speed is a combination of fiber and VDSL2.. I would think the guy new if he got a new modem or had fiber run to his house.

It's a technology not considered standard until implemented. It does exist but right now ADSL is the standard.

I am in Dayton Ohio as well and just ordered a couple months ago, and I was told the standard elite package was the highest their was - although Dayton is considered one of the largest marketing test beds in the country, that is usually referred to as food and soda and stuff - I doubt they would make an exception for our small little city.

Is it possible you got bad info from the "customer service professional" you spoke to? Could it be they really meant 768K up but saw the 1.5-3.0 plan listed and screwed up?

Nah, impossible.....those guys are perfect....

I called customer service again. They issued a trouble ticket for me (I don't know why!).
My modem says that I am connected in a 6005/756 line. But I called them and I demanded explanations since they promised me 6MB/1.5MB when I signed up.
The lady at the tech support (who issued the trouble ticket)assured me that THEY DO HAVE 1.5MB uploads in my area and my line IS qualified for that. They just have me connected to a slower speed. She said she didn't know any prices since she is not on sales and she also said that someone will get back with me within the next 4 hours.
Awaiting...

Let's see... poorly trained salesman, or amazing new technology? I wonder which it most likely is...

Look at the label on the bottom of you modem.. does it say ADSL2+ by anty chance???

Which DSL modem did you receive?

If it's a Speedstream, go here:
»192.168.0.1/statistics.htm
»192.168.0.1/log.htm
»192.168.0.1/techreadout.htm
and copy/paste/post the contents of those pages. (Please do edit out your email address from the techreadout.htm)

If you have a 2wire, go here:
»homeportal/management/ds ··· ags.html
»homeportal/management/li ··· ics.html
and copy/paste/post the page contents.

The pages above will tell us what kind of a DSL signal you get. I'm curious if they're deploying ADSL2/2+ in some areas.

--justbits

they say there is a 10 day ramp up for speeds. I ordered the pro package at 3mb down and at first I recieved only 1.9 mb. But two weeks later and I'm at 2.2 which isn't 3 but close enough.

Juno, check this out to get get between 2.3 and 2.5Mbps:
»AT&T Midwest/Ameritech FAQ »SBC DSL Pro on RT not getting full speeds even though sync shows 3008

--justbits

There is no ADSL2+ label at the bottom of my Speedstream 4100. Here is the pages you guys requested:

Statistics

ADSL Information
Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 6016 768
SN Margin (dB) 14.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 26.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 5 9

ATM Information
VPI / VCI 0 / 35
Protocol PPPoE

In Octets 229857079
In Errors 0
In Unicast Packets 405160
In Non Unicast Packets 0
In Discard Packets 0

Out Octets 216882183
Out Errors 0
Out Unicast Packets 382496
Out Non Unicast Packets 0
Out Discard Packets 30032

PPPoE Information
Session Status UP
Server MAC Address -
Session ID 51858

IP Information
Internet Address XX.XXX.XX.184
Internet Gateway XX.XXX.XX.254
DNS Servers 66.73.20.40 dns1.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net
206.141.193.55 dns1.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net

IP Interfaces
Address Netmask Name
192.168.0.1 255.255.0.0 eth0

Routing TableDestination Netmask Gateway Interface
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 lo0
192.168.0.0 255.255.0.0 192.168.0.1 LAN
Default Gateway - 69.223.79.254 PPPoE
69.223.73.184 255.255.255.255 69.223.73.184 LAN

LAN Information
Modem IP Address 192.168.0.1
Modem NetMask 255.255.0.0
DHCP Address 192.168.1.64

Devices on LAN
IP Address MAC Address Name Status
69.223.73.184 00:40:05:80:AA:EB home active

Ethernet Information
MAC Address 00:13:A3:D1:CD:AA

In Octets 229177632
In Errors 8376
In Unicast Packets 410431
In Non Unicast Packets 4331
In Discard Packets 0

Out Octets 224202147
Out Errors 0
Out Unicast Packets 403454
Out Non Unicast Packets 523
Out Discard Packets 11

===========================================================
2006/08/28 16:54:30 GMT E |System |=============== SYSTEM UP ===============

2006/08/28 16:54:30 GMT E |System |Current Mode: PPP on the modem (Public IP for LAN device)

2006/08/28 16:54:30 GMT E |DSL |DataPump Version - 01.01.00.00

2006/08/28 16:54:30 GMT E |DSL |State: WAITING

2006/08/28 16:54:32 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex

2006/08/28 16:54:34 GMT E |DSL |State: INITIALIZING

2006/08/28 16:54:42 GMT E |DSL |HYBRID 1

2006/08/28 16:54:42 GMT E |DSL |Link up 1 US 768 DS 6016 (FAST:G.dmt)

2006/08/28 16:55:37 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 16:55:38 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex

2006/08/28 16:55:39 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 16:55:40 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 10Base-T Half Duplex

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPPoE |tx PADI, id: 0000, ac: (NULL), sn: (NULL)

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPPoE |rx AC Name: 62031090092642-dytnoh2204w

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPPoE |tx PADR, id: 0000, ac: (NULL), sn: (NULL)

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPPoE |rx PADS id: CA92

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPP |LCP neg PAP

2006/08/28 16:56:05 GMT E |PPP |LCP up

2006/08/28 16:56:06 GMT E |DHCP Server |Address 192.168.1.64 given out to 00:40:05:80:aa:eb

2006/08/28 16:56:06 GMT E |PPP |IPCP nak option: 3

2006/08/28 16:56:06 GMT E |PPP |IPCP nak option: 129

2006/08/28 16:56:06 GMT E |PPP |IPCP nak option: 131

2006/08/28 16:56:06 GMT E |PPP |IPCP up ip: 69.223.73.184, gw: 69.223.79.254, dns: 66.73.20.40, 206.141.193.55

2006/08/28 16:56:19 GMT E |SNTP Client |server 132.163.4.102 (Primary) timeout

2006/08/28 16:56:24 GMT E |DHCP Server |Address 69.223.73.184 given out to 00:40:05:80:aa:eb

2006/08/28 19:36:07 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 19:36:08 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex

2006/08/28 19:40:03 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 19:40:05 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex

2006/08/28 19:41:21 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 19:41:23 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex

2006/08/28 19:41:23 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Down

2006/08/28 19:41:25 GMT E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 10Base-T Half Duplex

============================================================
Technician Readout

This information is for use by your service provider in diagnosing problems.

1 Manufacturer Siemens Subscriber Networks, Inc.
2 Vendor ID b50045464e540400
3 Model Number 4100
4 Friendly Name SpeedStream 4100 ADSL Modem
5 Model Description Single Port Ethernet Modem
6 Model Name SpeedStream
7 Serial Number 20013A3D1CDAA
8 Hardware Version 1.0
9 Modem DSL Firmware Version a1.01.00.00
10 Modem Software Version 1.0.0.53
11 Hardware Options -
12 Software Options -
13 Modem Configured true
14 Time Since Last Boot 000 days 04:15:01
15 Current Time 2006/ 8/28 20:11:25 GMT
16 Time Servers 132.163.4.101
129.6.15.29 time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov
time-b.nist.gov
17 Time First Use 2006/08/26 12:21:06 GMT

30 Modem Health Status ok
31 DSL Link Status up
32 Time Since Last Sync 000 days 04:14:49
33 Loss of Signal false
34 Loss of Framing false
35 ATM Cell Delineation true
36 Internet Status up
37 Ethernet Link Status up
38 PPP Connection Status connected
39 PPP Last Connection Error None
40 PPP Uptime 000 days 04:13:24

50 Test ADSL Line Sync pass
51 Test ATM Cell Delineation pass
52 Test ATM Signal pass
53 Test ATM OAM Segment Ping pass
54 Test ATM OAM End to End Ping pass
55 Test DSL Ethernet to ATM pass
56 Test LAN Ethernet Connection pass
57 Test Mac Bridge to LAN Ethernet pass
58 Test LAN USB Connection -
59 Test Mac Bridge to LAN USB -
60 Test PPPoE to Ethernet pass
61 Test PPP to PPPoE pass
62 Test PPPoE Server Connect pass
63 Test PPPoE Server Session pass
64 Test Authentication with PPP Server pass
65 Test IP to WAN pass
66 Test IP to LAN Ethernet pass
67 Test IP to LAN USB -
68 Test IP to PPP pass
69 Test Validate WAN IP Address pass
70 Test Gateway Ping pass
71 Test DNS Well Known Host Query pass
72 Test Primary DNS Ping pass
73 Test Secondary DNS Ping pass
74 Test Mail Srvr 1 Ping skipped
75 Test Mail Srvr 2 Ping skipped
76 Test News Srvr 1 Ping skipped
77 Test News Srvr 2 Ping skipped
78 Test Web Portal 1 Ping skipped
79 Test Web Portal 2 Ping skipped
80 Test PPPoE Connect to GateWay pass

90 Active VCs provisioned 1
91 DSLAM Vendor Id 414c4342 (ALCB)
92 DSL Line Mode ANSI
93 DSL Training Mode multimode
94 Conf VPI 0
95 Conf VCI 35
96 Conf PVC Search List 0/35, 8/35, 0/43, 0/51, 0/59, 8/43, 8/51, 8/59
97 VPI 0
98 VCI 35
99 VC Encapsulation LLC
100 DSL Line Type fast
101 DSL Line Interleaved Depth 0

110 Default Device Enabled true
111 Default Device Mac Address 00:00:00:00:00:00
112 Default Device IP Address 69.223.73.184
113 Default Device Address Type public
114 Service Provider Name
115 Service Provider Phone
116 Service Provider URL
117 Service Provider Help URL
118 Modem MAC Address 00:13:A3:D1:CD:AA
119 LAN DHCP Server Enabled true
120 DHCP Subnet Mask 255.255.0.0
121 DHCP Start IP Address 192.168.1.64
122 DHCP End IP Address 192.168.1.64
123 DHCP Default Gateway 192.168.0.1
124 DHCP Default Lease Time 000 days 00:10:00
125 Domain name
126 DHCP Leases Allocated 1
127 DHCP Leases Available 0

Rx Tx
140 Current Rate 6016 768
141 Previous Rate 0 0
142 DSL Max Rate - -
143 DSL Min Rate - -
144 Current ATTN DR 6016 -
145 Current SNRM 15.0 16.0
146 Current LATN - -
147 Current SATN 26.5 -
148 Current TP - 5.0

15 Min 24 Hour Yesterday
160 Time Elapsed 886 15286 0
161 Chan Received Blks 52358 902490 0
162 Chan Transmitted Blks 52358 902490 0
163 Chan Corrected Blks 0 5 0
164 Chan Uncorrected Blks 0 34 0
165 HEC Vcnt - - -
166 HEC Tcnt - - -
167 HEC Ucnt - - -
168 ICBE - - -
169 LCD 0 0 0
170 NCD 0 0 0
171 CVL 0 5 0
172 LCD Tx 0 0 0
173 NCD Tx 0 0 0
174 CVL Tx 0 9 0
175 LOF 0 0 0
176 LOS 0 0 0
177 LOSS - - -
178 LOL 0 0 0
179 LPR 0 0 0
180 ES 0 0 0
181 SESL 0 0 0
182 UASL 0 0 0
183 ECL 0 0 0
184 ECSL 0 0 0
185 ECL Tx 0 34 0
186 Inits 0 1 0
187 FastR 0 0 0
188 Failed FastR - - -
189 DSL Initialization Errors 0 0 0
190 DSL Initialization Timeouts 0 0 0
191 DSL Line Search Initializations 0 1 0
192 DSL Loss of Margin Failures 0 0 0
193 ISP Connection Establishment 0 1 0

210 VC ATM CoS ubr
211 VC ATM SCR -
212 VC ATM PCR -
213 VC ATM MCR -
214 VC ATM Burst Tolerance -
215 VC ATM CDV -
216 VC Max SDU 1528
217 ATM VC Receive Cells 4910022
218 ATM VC Receive PDUs 417352
219 ATM VC Receive Frames 417352
220 ATM VC Receive Octets 235681102
221 ATM VC Receive Errors 0
222 ATM VC Receive Discards 0
223 ATM VC No Receive Buffers -
224 ATM VC Transmit Cells 4655138
225 ATM VC Transmit PDUs 393745
226 ATM VC Transmit Frames 393745
227 ATM VC Transmit Octets 223446859
228 ATM VC Transmit Errors 0
229 ATM VC Transmit Discards 30930
230 ATM VC Transmit Queue Full -
231 DSL Rate Mode -
232 Conf Target SNR Margin -

Oct Err PkU PkNU Disc
240 LAN IP Tx 229959564 0 418024 4880 0
241 LAN IP Rx 234406848 0 4335 423337 0
242 LAN Ethernet Tx 229983830 0 415480 534 11
243 LAN Ethernet Rx 236070398 8657 422700 4335 0
244 LAN PPPoE Rx - - 2544 647 -
245 IP 2684 Tx 226486283 0 420920 0 0
246 IP 2684 Rx 223105637 0 416150 0 0
247 Ethernet 2684 Tx 223446859 0 393745 0 30930
248 Ethernet 2684 Rx 235681102 0 417352 0 0

260 Ethernet Rate 10Mbps
261 Ethernet Duplex Half

270 Internet Connection Type PPPoE
271 Modem Configuration Single Device Router
272 NAPT Enabled true
273 Modem IP Address 192.168.0.1
274 Modem Net Mask 255.255.0.0
275 Modem Broadcast Address 192.168.255.255

290 PPP UserName XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
291 PPP Service Name
292 PPP Access Concentrator 62031090092642-dytnoh2204w
293 PPP Connect Mode Smart keep alive
294 PPP Idle Timeout
295 Conf PPP Authentication Protocol chap pap
296 PPP Authentication Protocol pap
297 WAN IP Address 69.223.73.184
298 WAN Subnet Mask 255.255.255.255
299 WAN Default Gateway 69.223.79.254
300 Conf DNS Servers -
301 DNS Servers 66.73.20.40
206.141.193.55 dns1.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net
dns1.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net
302 PPP MRU 1492
303 Conf PPP MRU 1492
304 LCP Echo 30
305 LCP Echo Retry 6

320
LAN Device Table
Name Type IP Mac
Leased Time
IP Rx
IP Tx PPPoE
Rx
Last Seen
Status
320a home Ethernet 69.223.73.184 00:40:05:80:AA:EB 2006/08/28 20:07:01 GMT 427681 422914 0 - active

321
IP Gateway Table
Type
Metric
Timeout
Status
321a - - - -

322
IP Route Cache Table
Net Addr
NetMask
Type
GW
Metric
Timeout
Iface
Origin
322a 127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 - 127.0.0.1 64 0 lo0 -
322b 192.168.0.0 255.255.0.0 - 192.168.0.1 180 2899805 LAN -
322c Default Gateway - - 69.223.79.254 64 15301879 PPPoE -
322d 69.223.73.184 255.255.255.255 - 69.223.73.184 64 15301884 LAN -

323
Ethernet IP ARP Table
IP
MAC
Flags
323a 69.223.73.184 00:40:05:80:AA:EB 0x01
323b 239.255.255.250 01:00:5E:7F:FF:FA 0x01

330 Receive CCF ps Hlog
-

331 Receive CCF ps HLin
-

332 Receive QLN ps
-

333 Receive SNR ps
333a 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

333b 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

333c 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 17.0 16.0 15.5 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0

333d 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 15.5 16.5 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0

333e 0.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5

333f 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0

333g 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5

333h 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.5 16.0 16.5 16.5 16.5

333i 16.5 16.5 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0

333j 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.5 17.0 16.5 17.0 16.5 17.0 17.0 16.5

333k 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 17.0 16.5 17.0 16.5 16.5 17.0 17.0 17.0 16.5 16.5

333l 17.0 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.5 16.0 16.5 15.0 15.5 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0

333m 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 15.5 16.0 15.5 15.5

333n 16.0 15.5 15.5 16.0 15.5 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 15.5

333o 15.5 16.0 15.5 15.0 15.0 15.5 15.5 15.5 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.5 17.0 17.5

333p 17.5 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 15.5 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0

334 ADSL DMT Bin Bits
334a 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 7 9 10 10 10 10 11 11

334b 11 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 7 0 0

334c 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 9 9

334d 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

334e 0 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

334f 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

334g 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 9 9 9 9 9

334h 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9

334i 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9

334j 9 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 7

334k 7 6 3 5 6 6 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7

334l 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 6 2 6 6 7 7 6 6

334m 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5

334n 5 5 5 5 5 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

334o 5 5 4 2 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 3 3

334p 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3

335 ADSL DMT Bin Atn
-

The data you posted says that you are set for the 6016/768 profile. Your line has very good statistics/charactoristics.

From the log, it looks like your modem is losing Ethernet link. That could be an indication of a problem. Did you plug/unplug the ethernet cable a few times? If this keeps occurring, you'll see hiccups in your downloads whenever it happens.

When AT+T upgrades you, you ought to see the 768 value increase. Right now, it looks like your circuit is not configured for ADSL2 or ADSL2+. I'd expect data sections 330, 331, 332 and 335 to contain data if ADSL2/2+ was being used on your circuit.

--justbits

Justbits,
Thank you for all your help. I am aware that I am set for the 6018/768 profile. But since I have been promised a 6018/1.5MB and I am not hooked up for that, I thought I would try to see what is happening. They told me today that IT IS AVAILABLE for my line, I am just not hooked up.
I am not familiar on what you mea by "my modem is losing Ethernet link". Where do you see that? And should I plug/unplug the ethernet cable a few times to fix that?
Thank you very much for your valuable time again.

You weren't "promised" anything beyond what AT&T sells, which is, at maximum for ADSL, 6016/768.

Read this closely: They do not sell 1.5 megabits up on "Elite".

Unless someone is talking to you about Lightspeed, which is an entirely different animal. IF that is the case, you need to clarify that with AT&T and quit fuming about what clearly is not going to happen with a Speedstream 4100 ADSL modem.

Or maybe, just maybe, you heard wrong. Maybe, just maybe instead of hearing "elite has 1.5 up to 6 megs download" you thought they said "elite has 1.5 up" and "6 megs download"? Maybe? You would not be the first to misunderstand that, and won't be the last.

They told you wrong.

Even if it were, the largest package for Lightspeed is currently 6016/1024.

He is "otherly comprehending".

I am quite sure they told him that he could get "1.5 up to 6.0".

Someone send the short bus to Dayton.

Good point.

Harsh but unfair. My favorite game. Okay, maybe not unfair..still funny.

Dayton? No prob, need to chip in for gas though.