http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18427215 en Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:08:56 EDT Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:08:56 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/OT-JPL-Re-the-oil-mess-18442787
Considerably off the original topic, and I apologize, but...

The real kick in the crotch, for you, is that if you ever sell this house and the oil contamination (used motor oil is treated as a hazardous waste) is discovered during a home inspection, by either the person hired by the buyer or someone from the West Chester Borough codes department, YOU will probably be the one who will have to pay for its mitigation. And, in my experience, it won't be cheap. All the mandated excavation and soil testing comes with a high $$$ price tag.

What the PO did is a) illegal, b) consummately lazy, considering you can take used oil to many places, free, for proper disposal and, c) just downright inconsiderate of the environment, at the absolute minimum.

My daughter works for an environmental testing and contamination mitigation company and some of the costs she's told me about, for cleaning up even this seemingly small an issue, are staggering. Let alone any possible fines levied for the infraction.

I'm not suggesting this but... A "midnight" cleanup party may be in order here to minimize your exposure.

Just a heads up...
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Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/OT-JPL-Re-the-oil-mess-18442787 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 16:41:49 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18442405 said by Mike Rios:

a 20 amp receptacle ( simplex or duplex ) can ONLY be used if it's a dedicated outlet, and it cannot share with other chained outlets as per NEC, so having 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuits is ok and normal per NEC. I never wired any outlet pass through, but junction the wires inside the junction box and then pigtail out to the receptacle ( as long as you have the volume requirement per NEC article 370-27(b) ). This way failure of an outlet is local and does not affect the parallel chain. In any result all 15amp outlets are UL listed for 20 amp pass through ( side screw terminals ), in case you do want to chain through and outlet, but you can only backstab #14 ( rated for 15 amps )to any given 15amp outlet , 20's do not have backstab as it only side wired.
I didn't realize that 15 amp outlets could handle 20 amp pass-thrus. That's good to know. Still... I don't trust what's been done in this house. The previous owners did alot of work themselves - including the addition of those two rooms, and the wiring up of the outlets. Given the number of electrical issues I've encountered, I took no chances.

I could fill several pages of posts with stories of what I've found. I can't tell you how many times I've uttered the phrase "WHAT were they smoking?!" Quick non-electrical related story. Right after we moved in (this was in the dead of summer) I noticed a black mark on our lawn - a spot about 6 - 8 inches across. Figuring that it was after the 4th of July someone set off some firework that singed my lawn. I cut it, and the black grass was largely gone... until the next week when it showed up again. I started thinking we were in an episode of the X-files or something.

Talking with a neighbor I found out the cause. The previous owner took it upon himself to change his own oil. And dispose of it too - in his yard. My neighbor stopped by one time, and his leg sunk up to his shin in a pool of oil and dirt.

Everytime I uncover something in this house I scratch my head - like when I pulled up the carpet in my daughters room and found tile. A 2x2 foot square of ceramic tile cemented to the subflooring. With no discernable purpose. Baffled the hell out of me. No, the room was never a bathroom (I've had folks make that guess before), and it was built by those same owners.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18442405 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:08:15 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441362 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441362 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:14:29 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441331 said by severach:

The washer: I always put the duplex outlet in to run the gas dryer. I don't think the inspector likes it but it works fine and is very safe.I hear ya, especially since that's the way things are at my house.

The reason I mentioned it was our neighbor just sold their house and when the township did an inspection for the U&O, the inspector wouldn't issue it unless the duplex at the washer was changed to a single. Funny thing is they only had the washer plugged into it - electric dryer. At least, that's what the neighbor told me happened.
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Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441331 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:08:02 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441214
Only need the top screw snugged, and you can simply slide it off to one side if you ever NEED to operate the switch.

1/2" EMT size works great.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441214 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:33:38 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441141
I also replaced a number of outlets myself (had some real crappy ones), and I discovered a minor issue - the previous owners put on an addition. Two of my kids moved into the rooms in that addition. All of the outlets in both rooms weren't spec'd to the circuit they were on. They were on a 20 Amp circuit, but all outlets were 15 Amp. Now I realize that the chances are virtually nonexistant that we would be pulling anywhere 20 amps through a single outlet - especially in my kids bedrooms where the only things drawing electricity are lamps, boom boxes, and alarm clocks. Talking with my electrician friend, I was convinced to change over the outlets to 20Amps. His concern - how th circuits were wired. If in series then we could hit an issue where the first outlet in the series would bear the load of every other outlet.

One other thing that just occured to me - our furnace has an outlet, complete with switch, on it. I know it's on the same circuit as the furnace as the switch affects both the outlet and the furnace - I always have to check that switch after we have a party. The furnace is in the laundry room, as is a spare bathroom. Many folks go in there, reach for a light switch, and mistakingly flip the one on the furnace. You would think, after flipping it, and seeing it do nothing, that person would say "hmmm... guess that wasn't the light switch, but it MUST have been flipped up for a reason... let me put it back to where it was." You would think that... but you would be wrong :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18441141 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:14:40 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18440834
I have an old house which used to have the same type of wiring scheme that you are describing. 2-wire outlets, junction box splices everywhere and old, frayed cloth-covered wiring to boot. When I first moved in, the service ground was connected to the water pipe at the outlet of the well pump. The well pump used a plastic hose to connect to the well pipe in the ground. Needless to say, we fixed that ASAP. The rest was "upgraded" later- 200 Amp service, new wiring, and properly grounded 3-wire outlets.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18440834 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:33:40 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18440037 but unless you got some really power hungry stuff, you're not going to use 100 amp of single phase service under continuous load. I have an overhead drop ( and consequently my scheduled FIOS install will be overhead drop to the ONT). The power companies do not follow the NEC, they also do not pull the wire size you would expect for a 100 amp service. They know the difference between a connected load and demand load are 2 different things, and they always figure for demand load. Heaters ( furnaces ) should be on their own dedicated breaker, as should garbage disposal /dishwashers ( though it common to see them share a duplex with a 2 pole tandem breaker ) and pretty much anything else with a motor used in it. A stovetop typically is 30 amps @ 250volts, ovens are 50. Older houses will have less circuits and thus you'll find them sharing with appliances at times, but of more concern would be the insulation jacket of the wire and you panel. You might have a Federal Pacific panel or Zinsco, of the 2 I would worry if it was a Federal Pacific as they have been know to fail to trip in the event of a short. Square D is a good brand, as is Cutler Hammer or Seimens / Murray ( GE is ok but not my favorite to work with ).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18440037 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 00:22:23 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18435573
The main issue in my house is the fact that I only have 100 Amp service. I have lots of circuits. When we first bought the house, the inspector found lots of electrical issues - including with the breaker box. I contacted and electrician and he asked (over the phone) "what's the brand name on the box?" When I told him he said "wow, I haven't heard of them in a while... they went out of business... too many lawsuits due to faulty equipment." We had him replace the entire box (this was only about 12 - 13 years ago) - and he went top of the line, from what I understand - when I mentioned the brand of breaker (Square D) to an electrician friend of mine, he said "oh yeah, that's really good equipment."

Still, we find "surprises" every once in a while. The previous owners did much of their own electrical work... and not well. A couple years ago we replaced an electric stove (it was shot). We had an electrician out to disconnect it. My wife called me at work after the electrician left and told me one thing that he found - a junction box coming off the line from the stove. My immediate response was "oh, crap... you're kidding!" My wife said "that's what the electrician said... why is that bad?" I said "because that's supposed to be a dedicated line - and a junction box means that the previous owners spliced into that line. The junction went to nowhere (which was good) but the line going to the stove wasn't adequate to handle the current for the old stove, much less the new one.

If I had to guess as to what tripped this one - it was probably a "perfect storm" type surge - the freezer kicked on at the same instant as the furnace. Plus there is one other consideration - the blower on my furnace was in it's death-throws at that point. The insulation was shot, and as a result was probably causing all sorts of fun stuff to happen on that circuit. My guess - the whacked out blower, plus a couple devices turning on at the same time, probably caused it to trip.

Still, in light of the information you guys provided, we're going to have an electician take a look. Some of our circuits have too many outlets on them, and my kids were tripping one while playing their PS/2 - after rearranging some stuff, we got that to stop. I'd like to get some stuff rewired in this house anyway (and probably up the service to 200Amps while we're at it).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18435573 Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:40:43 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18435339 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18435339 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:46:28 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18434436 said by schipperke:

..... installed for internet only service? I had to throw the breaker that powers the ONT outlet to do some electrical work, and the backup battery signaled and came on-line. My internet connection was dead, it does not run off the battery.
I use only the best, a APC Smart UPS 750 which has a sine wave output when it goes into back up mode.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18434436 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:32:31 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18434220
The washer: I always put the duplex outlet in to run the gas dryer. I don't think the inspector likes it but it works fine and is very safe.

The refrigerator is also required to be all alone on it's own breaker. You don't want the food to spoil just because some kid puts a screwdriver in a light socket.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18434220 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:46:31 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18433782
If I am not mistaken, it's against the NEC to have anything other than the heater and its accessories (e.g. control transformer, pumps, blowers) on the same circuit. I can't find my copy of the code right now but I am also fairly sure that everything has to be hard wired to the circuit - no receptacles. The VZN installer shouldn't have been able to connect to that line. If there's an outlet in it, it shouldn't be there.

The same kind of thing goes for washing machines these days - no duplex receptacles - singles only, dedicated breaker - just thought I'd throw that in. :D
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Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18433782 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:29:51 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18432856
I keep a meter on my ONT, and it uses just under 15kWh of electricity/mo. Based on a PECO rate of roughly $0.15Per kWh, Fios costs you an extra $2.25 for electricity each month.

Maybe the breaker is getting old and the bi-metal strip is getting loose? You might try replacing, or have an electrician replace the breaker for you.

Plus you should try to find out what else is connected to that circuit, to determine if there is an overload situation. If you don't have a clamp on amprobe meter the electrician will. Most electricians also carry an infrared thermometer to identify 'hot' spots in the service panel.

By rule you should not have more than 12 amps continuous on a 15 amp breaker,
and no more than 16 amps continuous on a 20 amp breaker, or the breakers will run warm and nuisance trip . Check the 2 adjacent breakers to see if they are running warm too, because they can add to the likelihood of tripping the breakers next to them. If everything looks OK, you might want to have your furnace checked out by a trained HVAC technician.

I don't want to see anyone having the danger of an electrical fire.
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We're Gonna Need A Bigger Boat!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18432856 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:04:35 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18431166 --
Go Colts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18431166 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:59:17 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18431121
Some time later (I had to run out for some errands) my wife heard a loud beeping sound coming from our laundry room (which is where our power supply and backup are located). It was the power supply/backup making that sound. Not one to mess with that stuff, she was going to just wait until I got back home to deal with it. Then she noticed something - it was getting mighty cold in the house, and she realized that the furnace hadn't kicked on in some time. She put two and two together - she realized that the furnace was on the same circuit as the fios power supply, checked the circuit breakers, and sure enough one was tripped - the one for the furnace/power supply. She flipped it back on, and the furnace kicked on and the beeping from the power supply stopped.

The beeping was an indication that the batteries were nearly drained. They didn't help our internet connection for very long - but it kept our phone operating for hours.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18431121 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:50:55 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18430688 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18430688 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:18:04 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18430454 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18430454 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:08:50 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18427347 It will keep your data alive for about 5 mins. If you don't have the router on a bbu it wont work anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-Battery-Backup-18427347 Thu, 31 May 2007 17:31:02 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Why-Battery-Backup-18427215 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Why-Battery-Backup-18427215 Thu, 31 May 2007 17:07:11 EDT