http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448382 en Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:08:08 EDT Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:08:08 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18472686
I'm with you for the government to go back to its traditional role of playing traffic cop or referee. That would be fantastic! That would mean that "the monopolist {no longer} is prevented from maximizing profit because it cannot set a price higher than the minimum average cost of the lowest-cost potential entrant".

However because the government is, in this case by necessity due to physical ROW space, granting regional wire-line monopoly's, the government has the responsibility to make sure that the service created using the government mandated monopoly conforms to the best interests of the consumers and the stakeholders. Such as how it would work in an open market.

I don't see how my position would require anyone not accessing the service to pay for it. (Unless you're considering tax breaks already granted in franchise agreements) Regardless, because it is the government that has put the consumer in the position of having an all or nothing decision, it is also the government's responsibility to make sure that's the position the consumer wants to be in. If consumers want the choice of a la carte on the service they PAY FOR, that's deriving profit through the use of public land, then the consumer has the right to lobby for that. If Comcast, as a private business owner, doesn't want to offer that service, they have two choices (unlike the consumer), they can offer the service, or they can stop using public land and offer whatever service they choose using their own private resources. I can't just set up a booze cart in the public green after all. (or any cart for that matter)

In the wire-line communication industry, there is no "level playing field" to erode, so rest easy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18472686 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:04:33 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18468661 said by Ahrenl:

You can't compare firms in competitive markets to firms in Oligopolies, as firms in oligopolies will tend to maximize profits, not revenue, and therefore, the fact that "not many are doing it" would point that the current firm strategy is ideal for maximizing profit.I think you've made a mistake here. A price-seeking firm could very well be an oligopolistic one; in fact, a monopoly is the ultimate price-seeking firm. On the other hand, a price-taking firm is the one in perfect competition.

Of course a perfectly competitive price-taking firm would not price descriminate—because they can't. Any higher price means no one buys; any lower price means your taking a loss.

I am just pointing out that due to the this particular industry being concentrated, i.e., price-seeking, it is reasonable to expect them to try to maximize profits by engaging in price discrimination.

And when people start talking about mandates and forcing people to do things because it'll be more convenient for their particular circumstances, I get a bit nervous about the further erosion of the level playing field America is supposed to have.

Which leads me to say that I'm glad you mentioned the interventionist policies of our governments. True, most localities have a franchise agreements so we must recognize that some monopolistic aspects of the industry may not occur otherwise.

But even if a cableco is a "natural" monopoly due to it's ability to produce at a low cost, unless there's a government-imposed barrier to entry, the monopolist is prevented from maximizing profit because it cannot set a price higher than the minimum average cost of the lowest-cost potential entrant.

The fact is, market concentration doesn't signify market failure. And while I definitely see your point in your last paragraph, I'm not arguing for a "no more" attitude, no one is. Those of us on the right would just like to see the government go back to its traditional role of playing traffic cop or referee rather than picking winners and losers (e.g., colorBASIC vs. shareholders/excecs/workers regarding ala cart).

(Indeed on this point many on the left should agree because when the government is in the position to pick winners and losers, the whole corrupt lobbying process is what results. It never ceases to amaze me how the solution for some government-caused market failure is somehow more government intervention.)

I don't want to be too provocative here, but I can see where you and colorBASIC can agree because s/he wants to take away the choice of the business owner to run his business as he sees fit and you want to take away the choice of your in-law not to watch TV (or at least not to pay for it).
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"It is a melancholy reflection that liberty should be equally exposed to danger whether the government have too much or too little power."—James Madison
It's right, it's free.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18468661 Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:00:29 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18463911
A la carte would solve many issues, some that would favor the cable and DBS operators and some that wouldn't. All of which would benefit consumers with lower prices, better choice and higher quality programming.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18463911 Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:10:28 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18462233 You would also have to require the providers to give a uniform rate too. Otherwise, they will draft contracts that say $1 per bundled subscriber but $3 for a la carte subscriber.
Of course, this will also mean a requirement that providers disclose the details of the contracts in the first place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18462233 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 20:30:36 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18462040
Of course providers (eg ESPN) want no part of a la carte because they want to force EVERYONE to have and pay for their channels.

What the push for a la carte would do is stop those "no a la carte" contracts from being created in the first place.

It has nothing to do with a cable operator also bundling a bunch of channels, say ESPN and Sci-Fi together.

For example using arbitrary prices let's say that ESPN under the "no forced carry FCC mandate" charges the cable operator $10 per subscriber for ESPN and the cable operator tacks on another $5 making ESPN a la carte cost $15 total like HBO does. Now for example let's say that Sci-Fi charges the cable operator $1.00 per subscriber (that's 1% more than they charge C-Band subscribers) the cable operator tacks on another $1.00 making the channel $3 (that BTW is more than 200% higher than what C-Band subs are paying). So buying these two channels separately would be $18. I'm saying that a la carte doesn't REPLACE cable operator bundling for discounts. Instead of charging $18, they could charge $16 to intice people to buy both channels. (Of course these bundles would look just like bundles do now with dozens of channels)

That is what they do now with HBO. If you buy HBO, Starz and other channels together, instead of them being about $13 each, you get 4 for about $40.

What I'm advocating is stopping ESPN from putting cable and DBS operators over a barrel saying you charge everyone or no one. Also stopping ABC Disney from saying, you want the Disney Channel...then you have to take ABC Family Channel too or you get nothing.

It doesn't stop cable and DBS operators from trimming their per channel margins thus selling more channels in bundles.

What the 3rd option would eventually do is kill off lame channels who can't get customers, and also slow the insane increases the leagues (NFL, MLB, etc) charge for broadcast rights. ESPN pays too much for the NFL, because they get too much.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18462040 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:55:43 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461921 said by ColorBASIC:

The providers won't have control over anything if DBS and cable operators are forced to offer channels a la carte. Then there is nothing to negotiate.
[...]
I'm not sure how many times I have to say it, but no one I've seen here is demanding a la carte REPLACE bundled packages, merely compliment them as cable and DBS providers ALREADY DO with HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz and a few other channels.You are in conflict with these two statements. The providers want no part of a la carte and hence create contracts that specify that they cannot be offered a la carte. HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz, etc. are offered a la carte because they choose to be offered a la carte (they are rarely offered in basic or expanded basic cable packages anymore, even though they were available in such packages within the past decade). The only way to force content providers to allow their channels to be offered a la carte is to eliminate bundling completely so that it is no longer an option. If they have the option, they will choose bundling and the first statement does not hold. If you take away the option, then bundling is gone and the second statement holds.
The third option is to create a law that says channels must be offered a la carte and bundled, but then you will simply see the providers set a la carte rates high enough to capture the same amount of revenue as bundled rates. Why? Because the content providers have the same costs no matter how many consumers subscribe to their channels.
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The providers won't have control over anything if DBS and cable operators are forced to offer channels a la carte. Then there is nothing to negotiate.

Again, as pointed out by other posts in other threads, that company is one of the most expensive resellers out there and each provider offers different deals with C-Band. Some resellers aren't doing a la carte at all and some offer more channels than others.

And even then some of those you're looking at are premium channels that cable companies already sell a la carte (Cinemax, HBO, Showtime) as well as discounted in bundles. If a cable or DBS operator can sell HBO, Showtime, Cinemax and Starz a la carte as well as in bundles, why not ESPN, Discovery Channel or some of the other channels that represent a large chunk of a basic cable bill?

It's about providing choice.

As for loss leaders, that is pure conjecture. You have NO proof whatsoever if Discovery Networks is losing money offering their channels to C-Band providers. In fact logic would dictate otherwise as Discovery Networks isn't a charity.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it, but no one I've seen here is demanding a la carte REPLACE bundled packages, merely compliment them as cable and DBS providers ALREADY DO with HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz and a few other channels. Same with locals, E* already offers locals as an option, and out of area locals as another option. If you don't want locals, you aren't forced to get them if you want other programming. If you do want them, you can pay for them.

Me, I save almost 10% off my bill because I can get OTA HD locals and don't need to pay E* for them. I would just like the same options with ESPN, Fox Sports and other channels that IMO are WAY overpriced but are required if you want any programming from these providers.

Someone like you who may want a bunch of channels can still buy a package just like you do now...pay $50-$110 to get it, locals and all.

Others like me who have ZERO interest in ESPN, Fox Sports, HBO, Sundance, Style, FoodTV, DIY, The Water Channel, OLN, Cinemax, broadcast locals, or some other expensive channels can price it both ways (bundled vs a la carte) and choose which is cheaper. I may be able to get the dozen or so channels I want for $29.95 whereas now I pay near $70 still only watching those dozen or so el-cheapo channels. Or they may end up costing me $60 and I can consider shelling out $10 more to get a bundle with way more channels. But it would be my choice.

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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461651 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:43:15 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461479
are you going to run just c or are you going to also run ku bands? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461479 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:10:18 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461443 said by ColorBASIC:

Let's not forget you were the one flying off the handle quoting $4 per channel pricing and other nonsense, calling me an r-tard and the like.

Then to top it off you posted links to prove your point...except you quoted 90 day pricing as per month pricing and those very links proved to show the channels were about a buck each as I've stated from the start. Oooops.Any "price per channel" links are bogus data anyway. The providers have tight holds on everyone but C-Band to keep them from providing true price per channel per sub data. C-band is a loss leader, so they could care less if C-Band (or ku) prices are out there because those prices are allowed to sit way less than true a la carte prices.
(Notice you never find ESPN available a la carte from the big dish companies.)

A good example is here:
»www.bigdish.com/satala.htm
If you look carefully, the only channels truly available in unbundled a la carte are:
Cinemax ($12.14)
Discovery Theater ($5.34)
HBO ($14.08)
International Channel ($3.09)
Showtime ($11.66)
Sundance ($1.77)
TMC ($11.66)
WGN ($1.55)
Weather Channel ($1.06)
Everything else is being priced as a bundle loss leader.
And that is before you get into the a la carte price of retransmission consent locals, which can be more ridiculous than even ESPN.
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Professional Geographer
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Let's not forget you were the one flying off the handle quoting $4 per channel pricing and other nonsense, calling me an r-tard and the like.

Then to top it off you posted links to prove your point...except you quoted 90 day pricing as per month pricing and those very links proved to show the channels were about a buck each as I've stated from the start. Oooops.

Yep...I'm BASIC, simple, logical and well thought out. Oh and unlike you I can divide by 3.

Think more and type less. It will save you this endless embarrassment.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18461276 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:33:51 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459442 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459442 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:21:52 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459411
As I mentioned earlier, I'm not advocating getting rid of packages, only adding a choice of a la carte in addition to packages.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459411 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:15:44 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459394 said by ColorBASIC:

Deliverers as in content delivery (cable/DBS/Telco-video companies).

If the deliverers are all mandated that they offer a la carte, the content providers will have no choice but to accept it if they want to get on the air.
There is no legal foundation though for mandating a la carte from DBS though. That would be the sticking point.
As well, it is unlikely that the cable companies would be mandated to stop offering packages. This would lead to deals from the content providers along the lines of the current HBO packages: buy the whole package or buy individual channels for a rate so high that the package is cheaper when you buy more than one channel.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
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If the deliverers are all mandated that they offer a la carte, the content providers will have no choice but to accept it if they want to get on the air.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18459304 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:56:53 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18457562
1. A low (in fact, VERY low) Wife Acceptance Factor (lower than not just small-dish, but even OTA antennas). The big dish itself, not to mention the mast, tends to not go over very well. Also, C-band reception equipment hasn't shrunk to match their small-dish kids.

2. The *where to put it* problem! Unlike D* or E*, you can't park a C-band dish on a roof. Like D* or E*, you need that unrestricted line-of-sight. So big-dish is a space-eater.

3. Incompatible with MDUs. Quite simply, there are still a LOT of folks living in MDUs of various sorts; they represent the large portion of cable's customer base. These customers simply cannot choose C-band, period (lack of room for the large mast, let alone the dish itself); most have no room for even the smaller dishes used by D* and E*.

Given the small number of *residential* C-band customers (in fact, most newer C-band setups are of the SMATV sort and serve MDUs or other commercial/industrial properties, and therefore pay commercial programming rates), they are literally using these customers as a loss-leader. They don't plan on keeping them for the long term (or even the middle term), as they grow older, they expect to make back their losses as they move to *traditional* distribution (mostly to cable). How many C-band residential (as opposed to commercial) subscribers are there in the United States today?

I'm not new to this argument; in fact, C-band was on *my* radar back in the 1980s, back before cable became available to my area. However, *despite* cheaper rates than cable, suggesting C-band to Mom went over like a lead balloon (mostly because of the subjective factors I outlined earlier, primarily the space-eater dish and mast and the similarly space-eating reception equipment).

Choices between services are all about tradeoffs, and not all are objective.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18457562 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 02:02:46 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18455644 said by ColorBASIC:

The content providers won't have a choice if content deliver-ers aren't given a choice.
I'm not sure about terms here.
By content providers, I am talking about ABC/ESPN/Disney (Disney), MTV/Spike/CMT/Comedy Central/VH1/Nick (Viacom, Discovery/TLC/AP, CNN/TBS/TNT/CN/CTV/CTM (Turner), or CW/WB/HBO/Cinemax (Time Warner).
Who do you mean by deliverers?
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18455644 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:23:46 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18454689
I use a 10 ft deep dish. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18454689 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:31:13 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453961 --
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453961 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:36:04 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453916
the horizon to horizon nope , but im looking as we speak. even if to keep it set aside for awhile.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453916 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:28:41 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453350 said by LegoPower77:

The two issues at play are economies of scale and price discrimination.

The fact is, ala cart must not efficient because not many are doing it. If it were efficient, the companies that compete with each other would use it to undercut the others. What we will see, if ala carte were to go through, is higher costs for most consumers.

Price discrimination likewise is not some nefarious eeevil greedy plot. It's as simple as charging more for the walk-up guy at the ticket counter than the one who booked online 2 months ago. It's grocery store coupons. And yes, price discrimination also occurs when a firm charges the same price for all even when it costs more to deliver to one over the other or vice versa.

A price-seeking firm will use these things to try to capture as much consumer surplus as possible and while you may think that is the eeevil company taking advantage of people, a) they don't have to pay if they don't want (i.e., the value of a good is given by the people buying it) and b) the extra cash enables firms to engage in R&D.
You can't compare firms in competitive markets to firms in Oligopolies, as firms in oligopolies will tend to maximize profits, not revenue, and therefore, the fact that "not many are doing it" would point that the current firm strategy is ideal for maximizing profit.

If there are only two firms offering services (Cable, and satellite), and especially if one if much larger than the other, they will not utilize strategies to "undercut the other(s)" because both can co-exist at much higher profitability by competing using high margin strategies.

The "they don't have to pay if they don't want to" is also not applicable in the information age. I have an uncle-in-law who has sworn off TV, and he may be one of the most uninformed people I have ever had a conversation with; and I take public transportation to work.

There is no "matter of opinion" if there is an oligopoly in TV service distribution. Unless some people think the franchise system creates out right monopolies, but I'm giving satellite the benefit of the doubt. (assuming you have a LOS available to you). The government is ALREADY involved in this marketplace, maybe that's the problem, but the solution isn't to say no more. Maybe it's to say, make it less, but you can't completely exclude some government intervention (weather it be local or otherwise) since they already insure wire-line regional monopolies. Cable firms derive their profit from that government insurance, and the offset to that is that the government gets some say in how the firm is operated. If it were all wireless distribution, and anyone could compete who wanted to apply the capital, then it would be a different story. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453350 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:46:28 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453325
Do you have a horizon to horizon mount? if you do your in business if not your SOL. I bought mine way back in 1998 and it was one of the last mounts, and the company was not going to make anymore of them.

Remember dont go pass 300 ft with the ribbon cable unless you plan on doing amps and crap like that to it. IMO its not worth it.

Do you have a 4dtv? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453325 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:44:22 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453316 said by ColorBASIC:

These cable operators are granted a franchise. In exchange for them being able to tear up the streets, place ugly boxes up every 3 houses and have a wireline monopoly on video services in perpedtuity they can make a couple of concessions including a la carte offerings. If they don't like it, let them surrender their franchises and make room for a company what will.
The problem is, the content providers are the ones forcing bundling, not the cable operators.
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Professional Geographer
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Says the cable shill. Of course this is cable operator greed to force people who want a few channels to buy a crap load of channels they don't want meanwhile overcharging for all of it.

Thank goodness for ownership limits that keep these corrupt bloodsuckers under control.
Having Basic in your name explains your mental though process, because you keep pointing at cable like they are the only player in the arena. Satellite and IPTV force these channels down your throat too. Give it a rest. You can't honestly say it's all cables fault, especially considering Dish has been competing for decades, and still has NO a la carte, except C-Band providers/users. I would say if ANYONE were to set and example, it would be DirecTV (who is suppose to have better HD) and Dish Networks. Get with the program. :uhh: :huh:
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18453012 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:55:09 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18452762
The reason i ask is I myself have been trying to get South American feeds as well as european , but have all but given up. I may just wait till I move to a more rural area and then set the sucker up on a huge hill.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18452762 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:11:48 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18451096
Exactly how much the cable industry lobbyists tell the government to regulate their industry, so as to extort maximum dollars from their subscribers?

Gosh, that was easy. Can I have another one?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18451096 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:52:49 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18451090
Big dish pricing proves a la carte pricing is lower for those buying fewer channels, espeically those who would drop sports channels, and it proves that they can offer low a la carte pricing in addition to bundled tiers.

The only ones against this are those looking to protect telco, cable and DBS's massive multi-billion dollar margins by allowing them to continue forcing people who want a few channels to buy all of them including overpriced sports programming. Cable operators make a mint by giving customers only 1 choice; take it or leave it.

In exchange for their franchise they can afford to give their customers more choice than that. If their tiers are as compelling and competitive as they claim...they'll still sell everyone bundles. If they're full of crap as I suspect they are, they'll lose cusotmers to a la carte buying which will benefit consumers who are paying lower prices and improve the quality of programming as channels have to truely compete for subscribers like HBO and Starz do.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18451090 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:48:32 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18450883
The two issues at play are economies of scale and price discrimination.

The fact is, ala cart must not efficient because not many are doing it. If it were efficient, the companies that compete with each other would use it to undercut the others. What we will see, if ala carte were to go through, is higher costs for most consumers.

Price discrimination likewise is not some nefarious eeevil greedy plot. It's as simple as charging more for the walk-up guy at the ticket counter than the one who booked online 2 months ago. It's grocery store coupons. And yes, price discrimination also occurs when a firm charges the same price for all even when it costs more to deliver to one over the other or vice versa.

A price-seeking firm will use these things to try to capture as much consumer surplus as possible and while you may think that is the eeevil company taking advantage of people, a) they don't have to pay if they don't want (i.e., the value of a good is given by the people buying it) and b) the extra cash enables firms to engage in R&D.

Now, the arguments for your side are that cable/internet/phone is a monopoly or oligopoly and that these things are pubic goods.

I guess to a certain extent it's a matter of opinion about the oligopoly point. I just want to point out that market concentration is not in of itself anything to be scared of. Even a purely hypothetical perfect monopoly is still constrained by other forces (e.g., demand, costs, con testability, arbitrage).

As for the public good argument, these things, only partially fit the criteria for being a public good. And again, it's comes down to a matter of opinion, but I think when the government gets involved and changes the dynamics of the market place (as a "rate of return" structure of a municipal industry most certainly does) it stifles innovation and actually raises the total cost for all. (Because one of the effects is it creates the condition where the firm takes longer to phase out older, less-efficient equipment.)

And really, we live in America, how much are we going to allow government to tell people what they can and can't do with their enterprises?
--
"It is a melancholy reflection that liberty should be equally exposed to danger whether the government have too much or too little power."—James Madison

It's right, it's free.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18450883 Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:32:36 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449273 said by ColorBASIC:

How much is your bill and what channels do you get?
LOL its unlimited plus you have ton of free to air channels. Not only do you have c -band but you have ku band. i only pay for what i want which equals about $70 a year thats it plus i get my IPG free.

You also get wild feeds from all news that is LIVE not taped or tape delayed. :D

C-band has been doing hdtv i think since 1997 on galaxy.

Also i have a 10 foot deep dish dish as it has horizon to horizon so i can also get the europe sats also. :o

How much do i pay nothing so much is free to air.
Cable and DBS systems get the same stuff i do except i get the first gen. signal where with cable of dbs you get second gen signal. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449273 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:07:24 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449040 said by fiberguy2:

Hey... go buy a large dish like him and your problem is solved!
Why when the gov't can force cable operators to sell their products on merit rather than extortion.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449040 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:26:46 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449031
Thank goodness for ownership limits that keep these corrupt bloodsuckers under control.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18449031 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:25:31 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448953 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448953 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:11:14 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448943
When you can produce a document that says every American has the right to satellite carried television, then we can talk about being FORCED and CONSPIRACY and those other kooky terms you are throwing out.

If you think that cable and satellite is subject to democracy rule, then you are sadly mistaken.

What you say they are conspiring with lobbies.. they are protecting their asses from mis-informed people like you crying to the government to be their nanny... AGAIN.

I have NO interest, in sprite of what some kooks here think, if cable goes ala cart or not.. what I *DO* have an interest in is the government which is constantly hijacked for all the wrong reasons in this country.

You know how people here bitch about the patriot act and how it takes away freedoms? Well, asking for the government to extend it's tentacles to this area opens up the government to do it elsewhere and so on.. the more of this that goes on, the more communist this country heads.

I think more people need to pay attention in the severely under taught civics and government courses in high school. It's sad that it's only offered in the last year.. and it should be required just as much as english courses are.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448943 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:10:30 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448819 --
Semper Fi]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448819 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:47:32 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448685 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448685 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:25:10 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448648
I love my c/ku band dish and i wouldnt give it up for anything.

4dtv all the way. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448648 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:17:59 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448555
Since C-Band is a different platform there are going to be differences in terms of what channels you can get (eg locals), but I'm just dispelling the myth that a la carte automatically means higher prices or some other nonsense that a DBS or cable operator would like to have us believe.

I think most folks would guess that most channels are a "buck a piece" and their guess would be very accurate. It's just a few channels like ESPN and Discovery Channel that make "basic cable" rates sky high and suddenly when people are faced with a $10/mo ESPN rate they make think twice and ESPN may be forced to bring their prices into line with other popular channels.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448555 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:03:15 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448533 said by ColorBASIC:

Big dish pricing is like that. With the exception of just a few channels like ESPN, most popular channels are $1 or less per month (simply google for C-Band pricing to see this is fact »www.callnps.com/alacarte.htm ). For example, one C-Band programming seller offers USA Network and Sci-Fi for $18.01/yr...$0.75 per channel per month.

This is just bullcrap programmers and cable companies conspiring in their lobbying efforts to make everyone buy channels they don't want to get the 1/2 dozen ot a dozen they do want.

There is nothing to say the cable and DBS operators couldn't still offer their $100+/mo packages...the C-Band providers do. C-Band programming resellers offer package deals AND a-la-carte so people can choose which is cheapest for them.
Just by looking at the a la carte pricing on link you provided, the pricing doesn't seem that much different from cable or dish. When I get home I do a better comparison. I also didn't see an option for local area channels, something that all cable and most Dish providers offer depending on area. I might have missed it. The article is very acurate when it says that most folks have no idea what channels might cost them if A la Carte was mandated on dish and cable providers.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Big-dish-does-it-18448533 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:00:10 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Big-dish-does-it-18448382 www.callnps.com/alacarte.htm ). For example, one C-Band programming seller offers USA Network and Sci-Fi for $18.01/yr...$0.75 per channel per month.

This is just bullcrap programmers and cable companies conspiring in their lobbying efforts to make everyone buy channels they don't want to get the 1/2 dozen ot a dozen they do want.

There is nothing to say the cable and DBS operators couldn't still offer their $100+/mo packages...the C-Band providers do. C-Band programming resellers offer package deals AND a-la-carte so people can choose which is cheapest for them.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Big-dish-does-it-18448382 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:39:25 EDT