Topic 'Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus?' in forum 'Open Forum'

Topic 'Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus?' in forum 'Open Forum' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19683298 en Sat, 26 Mar 2022 14:05:43 EDT Sat, 26 Mar 2022 14:05:43 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19804230 www.leatherman.com/produ ··· ault.asp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19804230 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:05:41 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19803071 said by james16:

If you are a responsible person, you will have your weapon secured, unloaded, and safe any time it isn't in your hands.
If I'm considered a responsible person, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to maintain my weapons in any state of readiness I choose to.

Our Second Amendment in no way says that a gun should be secured, unloaded, and safe any time it isn't in our hands. That is a judgment call that each gun owner has to make on his/her own.

Responsible people are trusted to make their own choices. Please stop telling me how "responsible" firearms owners "ought to" behave. If their carelessness leads to an AD, then they are responsible for the consequences. Otherwise, it should be left up to them.

said by james16:

If you have people able to break into your house faster than you're able to unlock and load a weapon, you need more practice.

Requiring a gun owner to both unlock and load a weapon before they can employ it is just plain silly. From where you're standing, you have no idea if Mr. Bad Guy is breaking into the very room they are sleeping in and already has a weapon in his hands.

"Practice" doesn't come into it. A gun is only as useful as it is ready to use. The fact that you think it's perfectly reasonable to ask gun owners to fumble a lock open and load it in the dark tells me that you more than likely have never been in any such danger yourself.

said by james16:

I've seen those beside the bed shotgun racks, and frankly the last thing anyone needs in a dark room, while groggy eyed at 3 am, is a loaded shotgun within rolling reach, and a kid running into your room after having a nightmare. BOOOM! "I'll give you something to have nightmares about!"

I see. So if that "kid" running into your room is replaced with a "bad guy" running into your room, then you're still okay with forcing people to unlock and load their weapons in the dark?

Wow.

I think you'll find that part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing when to shoot and when not to. If you think you're "helping" gun owners by effectively handicapping them in their ability to protect themselves and their families you are wrong.

Again, you have no way of knowing the dangers that others might face. Asking people to be "responsible" is simply asking them to be willing to accept the consequences of their actions, both good and bad. Please stop pretending that having people act in a "responsible" manner means having them follow the rules and regs that you lay down.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19803071 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:19:29 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19722955
My advice would be, if your going to carry it, don't be an idiot about doing it. Carry it the way it should be (sheathed) and don't take it out unless you need it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19722955 Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:10:59 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19722386 said by pacman326:

Is this thread still going guys? Some interesting perspectives though, makes for a good New Years reading :)
Ain't that the truth ! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19722386 Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:38:48 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19720128 said by scooper:

"It is better to ask forgivness than permission" - IOW - since it is not considered a weapon, but rather a tool - I'd take it.

However, I WOULD NOT take to the airport on my person - as checked baggage, yes, but not on my person.
One of the worst things I had to deal with after 911 was not being able to carry my gerber while traveling.

That wonderful tool helped me out of many situations.

I only travel with a carryon and never check bags so it was always attached to a ring inside one of the pockets.
--
The adventure continues......2007 so far ....Rio de Janeiro,Rome,Acapulco,Switzerland,Santiago,Chile...Dec-Hong Kong,Brazil,Switzerland(now).........]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19720128 Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:29:40 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19717256 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19717256 Tue, 01 Jan 2008 01:32:38 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19713635 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19713635 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:11:06 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19712989 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19712989 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:11:59 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19712417 said by james16:

Regardless of your silly argument, I am of the opinion that I should be allowed to have access to a weapon for use in emergency. And it should be locked up in a closet or triple locked in the trunk of a car, for every example of lives being saved because a civilian had a firearm, you will find hundreds of examples of lives lost due to unsecured or careless use of firearms.
How about we do this:

Let everyone decide how they wish to "secure" their own firearms. If someone wants to keep their .45 with a full magazine and "cocked and locked," let them.

If, on the other hand, I want to carry mine "triple-locked" in the trunk of my car, that's okay, too.

In both cases, if the firearm is misused, the person owning the firearm should be held liable for whatever damage results.

The mistake you're making is that you're assuming that *all* gun owners are careless and, as a result, all weapons should be locked up in a closet, triple-locked in a car trunk, etc.

The problem with such thinking is that you, from where you're standing, have no way of knowing the level of danger that an individual faces. If I live in a bad neighborhood, making me keep my firearms in a locked closet might well mean that when a Bad Guy comes in, I lose my life (or my kids lose theirs) because I can't get to a weapon fast enough. Claiming that you're in favor of allowing gun owners "access" to their weapons, and then mandating that a certain number of "hoops" be put in place that they have to jump through before they'll actually have that weapon in their hands and ready to use, isn't very impressive.

Please don't penalize responsible gun owners by assuming that they are irresponsible, and therefore should be treated like three-year-olds who don't understand that a loaded firearm is a Serious Thing and should be taken seriously.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19712417 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:54:58 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709118 said by InGreenwood :

If it had even smaller jewelers screwdrivers and wire strippers, I would like it more, but 'Network tech' is not a manly job
You might like the RadioShack Leatherman® 9-in-1 Precision Tool. I find it to be an indispensable tool for network maintenance.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709118 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:03:47 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709092 said by scooper:

"It is better to ask forgivness than permission" - IOW - since it is not considered a weapon, but rather a tool - I'd take it.

However, I WOULD NOT take to the airport on my person - as checked baggage, yes, but not on my person.
Actually, I quite regularly take my RadioShack Leatherman® 9-in-1 Precision Tool through airport security checkpoints.
[att=1]
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Leatherman® 9-in-1 Precision Tool

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709092 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:56:07 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709034 said by Johkal:

That's your choice. I've stated in a few posts that tools are available to me at home, work and in my car. No need for me to carry my Leatherman.
Permit me to ask you a question.

If you find that your Leatherman® is so useless, why don't you sell it on eBay so that someone who would actually use it could do so? I hate to think that such a good tool is going to waste. :huh:
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19709034 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:42:23 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19707851 said by Nick:

Let's alter your statement by replacing the ____ with zoo.
No, lets not. Do you know why not? Because there are so few tigers in public schools these days that it makes your argument quite void.

Regardless of your silly argument, I am of the opinion that I should be allowed to have access to a weapon for use in emergency. And it should be locked up in a closet or triple locked in the trunk of a car, for every example of lives being saved because a civilian had a firearm, you will find hundreds of examples of lives lost due to unsecured or careless use of firearms.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19707851 Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:00:19 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19699845 said by Markzzzzz :

When it is moderating the availability / regulation / carry of things like guns and knives -versus- shaping the substance of inner mankind into a more decent person, parent, child, and/or citizen, which do you think they (the folks in charge, so to speak) are going to move toward as an option?
Sadly, the "folks in charge" have made it obvious which direction they're moving in. And it's pretty much a "people can't be trusted, only tightly controlled"-type direction.

said by Markzzzzz :

Can you really blame them?

Well, I can if what they do puts me at a sharp disadvantage when it comes to protecting myself or my family.

And, unfortunately, it's very easy to pass "one size fits small" regulation when the fundamental attitude behind it all is that people can't be trusted.

said by Markzzzzz :

So there is poor parenting going on and kids are running wild; is there anything that can even be done about the parenting side of that? The wrong things being taken serious is because the right things don't even seem feasible.

The parent obviously didn't know any better than his kids and only reinforced and outright supported their activity. Say it is his issue, what then? Tell him to be a better parent? Enforce his parenting?

Well the one thing we can't do is to look to the government to do our parenting for us. If you can't competely manage your own affairs, you can hardly be expected to manage anyone else's. And our government has become one of the most dysfunctional (albeit powerful, no one's saying they aren't that) ones in the history of the planet.

The people who are "in charge" are no different than any other group of people. And what I mean by that is that they'll take care of themselves, first, the same as any other group of people. If there's anything left over after they've taken care of their own wants, then that's what you and I will get.

said by Markzzzzz :

The kid who pissed off the tiger and got mauled probably believed it was an improbable / impossible threat.

Unfortuntely, it's hard to feel any sympathy for him if he did, in fact, provoke the tiger. And if the boy's father stood by and let the boy taunt that animal, well, we don't have to look very far to see where the blame lies, do we?

I can't help but feel there's a lesson for us all in that: if you leave people (and animals) alone, and mind your own business, chances are good you'll make out okay.

If, on the other hand, you go looking for trouble, you're apt to find that trouble.

That's not to say that they're aren't some genuine loony-tunes out there; there are. But they are a lot fewer and far between than our newspapers and news programmes would have us believe.

Let's face it: the fact that 290 million people went to work, came home, and fell asleep in front of the Idiot Box is not going to sell newspapers or get people to tune into the nightly news.

said by Markzzzzz :

This is how things happen WITH all manner of rule and regulation in absolutely everything!

That's my point entirely: legislation offers little, if any, protection on a practical, physical level. If a bad guy shows up with a gun, (or a Siberian Tiger with a set of claws) then it's up to you and I to protect ourselves: It's highly likely that no one else is going to be around to do it for us.

That's not to say that the "professionals" aren't there (and ready and willing to help). But it takes time to get people (even fast-moving professionals) from one spot to another. And while that's happening, it's up to the people who are faced with danger to cope with it.

And I think that's the reason why most people are supportive of someone who wants to carry something like a multitool. It's obvious this person wants to do things for himself and/or be able to help out others and the multitool is an instrument that will allow him to do just that.

Waiting around for other people to come along and solve our problems for us is not what made this country great.

said by Markzzzzz :

How do you think things are going to look with even LESS?

Boss, if I'm facing real danger, all the legislation in the world is not going to help me at that moment.

The thing that people who pass (and believe strongly in) legislation assume is that everyone will follow that legislation. I'm sure the people that advocate, say, gun control genuinely believe that if you pass a law that says people can't carry guns, that, by golly, everyone is going to snap-to and not carry guns.

However, once you've decided that you're no longer going to obey the law, you're no longer bound by that legislation. The only effect it's going to have on you is if you get caught. And, unfortunately, there are folks out there who hold their own lives pretty cheaply. And if that's the case, I'm sure you can guess what value they place on yours and mine.

said by Markzzzzz :

Do not get me wrong, please ... having said all this, I do not necessarily disagree with you.

No sweat, boss. Even if you disagreed entirely, that's what this forum is for: everyone gets to talk about how they feel.

And I don't think it's a stretch to say that most people want to make this a better world to live in. We just differ on how to go about it, that's all. [shrugs]

Speaking for myself, my deal with the world is that I won't tell anyone else how to live, if they promise to leave me alone, too. We're all free to talk to each other, and make suggestions, but it has to end there. And that's about as fair as I can make it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19699845 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:50:25 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19699495 said by pacman326:

I am an electrical engineering major who often works with mechanical engineers on various projects. In fact, I am entering a circuits based class this upcoming semester. I can't even begin to count the times I could of used something like my leatherman last semester. My group and I had to build a Gaussian speaker and an autonomous robot, both of which required fixes my new multitool could have easily provided rather that dragging one of our mech'es heavy toolkits.
Bear in mind that if you use this tool while working on live electrical circuits that the handles are un-insulated !

I have had my hair stand up a few times myself !! ;) :D
--
Happy New Year !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19699495 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:26:00 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19698625
But when it involves issues that either are or are not against an official campus policy, and scholarships are at stake, you'd want an affirmative answer from the source itself, I'd think. Or so it could seem!

--

When it is moderating the availability / regulation / carry of things like guns and knives -versus- shaping the substance of inner mankind into a more decent person, parent, child, and/or citizen, which do you think they (the folks in charge, so to speak) are going to move toward as an option? Can you really blame them?

So there is poor parenting going on and kids are running wild; is there anything that can even be done about the parenting side of that? The wrong things being taken serious is because the right things don't even seem feasible.

--

The parent obviously didn't know any better than his kids and only reinforced and outright supported their activity. Say it is his issue, what then? Tell him to be a better parent? Enforce his parenting?

--

The kid who pissed off the tiger and got mauled probably believed it was an improbable / impossible threat.

This is how things happen WITH all manner of rule and regulation in absolutely everything!

How do you think things are going to look with even LESS?

--

Do not get me wrong, please ... having said all this, I do not necessarily disagree with you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19698625 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:38:07 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697815 said by Markzzzzz :

There is liability, with a significant scholarship at play, and you would come to ask on here instead of reading the policy or better yet asking those involved or associated with the policy? Out of all of this argument and debate that is what is the telling thing.
If you'll pardon my saying so, I think the "telling thing" here is that you didn't bother to read the first and second replies given to the OP's question.

The first reply:

[Thats something I would ask the campus or public security on campus.]

And the second:

[My best guess would be no, but echoing the comments of another, I'd check with your security department at school to see if it's allowable.]

So he was told straight off to talk to the campus security people by the other forum members.

The "argument and debate" that followed is simply other people voicing their thoughts and opinions. Which, last time I looked, was what a forum was for.

said by Markzzzzz :

On the wftv.com link from page 3, happen to notice the previous story link from December 10th, where a 7 year old was threatening another kid with a knife that she actually did have? Maybe there are strong reasons now that many things are being taken very seriously?

Of course, it could also be possible that the wrong things are the ones that are being taken "very seriously."

The case you're referring to:

»www.wftv.com/news/148161 ··· ail.html

...involved a 7-year-old girl threatening to kill another classmate. When the authorities searched her backpack, they found a four-inch paring knife.

Does this mean we should ban all four-inch paring knives straightaway? Or would we be better off asking just what it is the parents of this young girl are teaching her (or, more likely, not teaching her)?

I agree that one kid threatening another in grade school is a serious thing. But let's not get carried away here and start blaming what this kid did on a four-inch paring knife: she verbally threatened to kill the other kid, first. The knife was found later.

Perhaps the real problem here has a lot less to do with paring knives and a lot more to do with the fact that we now have a generation of kids who have been raised by parents who want their kids to think of them as playmates rather than parents.

Being a parent is a tough job, with the toughest part of it teaching your kids right and wrong. If parents fail to do that, locking up all the knives (paring or otherwise) in the world is not going to help.

said by Markzzzzz :

On the other link about the tiger mauling, you'd think such an anti-liberal, hard-nosed crowd would maybe notice that the kids involved were actively throwing rocks and sticks at the tiger and yelling at it, and reflect on it. And of course the father sees no problem with that and believes they should be able to taunt an animal in the zoo all they want. Why else would an animal be in a zoo?! /sarcasm

Again, is the failure here that society failed to lock up all the sticks and stones? Or is it that the Mum and Dad in question failed to teach their children that it is flat-out wrong to be cruel to animals (and other people for that matter).

said by Markzzzzz :

It's an extremely powerful and agile predator that cleared a 20 foot wall and 15 foot moat and probably did it with ease; I don't think a leatherman pocket tool is going to help as defense should a Siberian Tiger get after you, to whoever had that real gem of an example scenario.

I agree: a pocket multitool is probably not an ideal weapon to go up against a Siberian Tiger with.

On the other hand, a pen and a small log are probably not considered to be ideal weapons if you were going up against a mountain lion, either, and yet a woman managed to save her husband's life with these very things:

»news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/worl ··· 1575.stm

The point being that if someone is in trouble, I can only hope that we as a society allow them to have whatever they need to take care of themselves. Because all too often, the laws that are meant to "save us" from the Bad Guys end up penalizing the Good Guys, too.

Finally, I wouldn't call this "crowd" an "anti-liberal, hard-nosed" one.

I would, instead, call this group one in which most people seem to recognize that a) a Leatherman multitool is far more likely to be used as a tool than a weapon and B) we're talking about a college-aged man who would like to carry one, not a seven-year-old child.

If this guy can't be trusted with a three-inch blade on the end of a pair of pliers, then he probably shouldn't be trusted to drive to school, either. After all, we lose 50,000 people a year to road accidents, not to Leatherman multitools.

I've actually enjoyed this thread a great deal because it highlights a very serious problem with this country: people are losing the ability to distinguish between real, actual threats from improbable (or impossible) ones.

And as much as I would like to live in a completely threat-free world myself, I simply don't have the time to take away everything from everyone else that might conceivably be used as a weapon. And while I would also love to blame inanimate objects for all of the evil in the world, (after all, they don't talk back) I know that the real cause of all the trouble is simply that people aren't being taught right from wrong any more.

And all the well-meaning "safety" legislation you could possibly care to write is not going to be enough to protect us from such people.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697815 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:05:00 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697344 said by javaMan:

said by eatatjoz:

Good lord, can't someone just invoke Godwin and get this thing locked? :)

Maybe I can help. It's a well known fact that Hitler carried a pocket knife when he was in school, so anyone who does must be a Nazis. Think that will do it? :)
I don't know why people feel compelled to make up things like that when it's a well-known fact that Hitler pulled off the Anschluss exclusively through the use of Leatherman multitools.

From what I understand, he gathered the Wehrmacht on the German-Austrian border and then simply had them all yank up their coats en masse and prominently display their belt sheaths with the "Leatherman" logo stamped on them.

Obviously this was quite unnerving for the Austrians, but they still managed to stand fast (stout fellows!).

Until, that is, some of the soldiers started nervously fingering the sheaths in such a way that the Austrians feared that the multitools would be whipped out, the pliers deployed, and then used to yank out the nose hairs of the Austrians one by one.

At which point, the Austrians quite sensibly capitulated.

(Yes, I know it sounds incredible but then the truth is often stranger than fiction, isn't it?)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697344 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:34:54 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697341
On the wftv.com link from page 3, happen to notice the previous story link from December 10th, where a 7 year old was threatening another kid with a knife that she actually did have? Maybe there are strong reasons now that many things are being taken very seriously?

On the other link about the tiger mauling, you'd think such an anti-liberal, hard-nosed crowd would maybe notice that the kids involved were actively throwing rocks and sticks at the tiger and yelling at it, and reflect on it. And of course the father sees no problem with that and believes they should be able to taunt an animal in the zoo all they want. Why else would an animal be in a zoo?! /sarcasm

It's an extremely powerful and agile predator that cleared a 20 foot wall and 15 foot moat and probably did it with ease; I don't think a leatherman pocket tool is going to help as defense should a Siberian Tiger get after you, to whoever had that real gem of an example scenario.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19697341 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:34:52 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19696632 said by javaMan:

Maybe I can help. It's a well known fact that Hitler carried a pocket knife when he was in school, so anyone who does must be a Nazis. Think that will do it? :)
I believe that deliberately using the word "NAZI", in an attempt to invoke Godwin, negates the attempt to invoke Godwin. Catch 22.5, if you will.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19696632 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:25:45 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19696568 said by eatatjoz:

Good lord, can't someone just invoke Godwin and get this thing locked? :)
Maybe I can help. It's a well known fact that Hitler carried a pocket knife when he was in school, so anyone who does must be a Nazi. Think that will do it? :)
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19696568 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:00:09 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695780 said by pacman326:

Gosh guys! I thought I might get a few replies, but a FRONT PAGE spot with 2 pages of posts?! I love this forum and you guys and gals.

While I must admit most of your answers were most entertaining, the reason why I asked is sadly liability. I am riding on a significant scholarship, and would hate to piss it away because of some overzealous student or cop.

I am an electrical engineering major who often works with mechanical engineers on various projects. In fact, I am entering a circuits based class this upcoming semester. I can't even begin to count the times I could of used something like my leatherman last semester. My group and I had to build a Gaussian speaker and an autonomous robot, both of which required fixes my new multitool could have easily provided rather that dragging one of our mech'es heavy toolkits.

I hope this answers your questions. I almost snorted out my orange juice when I saw my post on the front page. I hope everyone had a great X-mas, and I wish everyone a happy new year. And yes, I am an OP that always responds to his topic, I just got a little busy yesterday. :)

Thanks again guys, I feel a lot better about carrying my new multitool on my belt.

There are better tools for doing that. They are not that heavy and work better. Just a few of them instead of one. I like multi tools but as easy to carry for unexpected use. If I am building something I use real tools. Plus who is going to ask about a leatherman unless you bring notice to it or try to get it into a prison, crazy house or on a plane.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695780 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:29:46 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695686 said by manfmmd:

said by Leatherman08 :

According to the State of Texas:

»www.criminal-lawyer-hous ··· LAWS.pdf

A knive is a weapon if the blade is over 5.5 inches (46.01 6A).

SMU's Policy:

»www.smu.edu/apartments/p ··· cies.pdf

Which states: "WEAPONS
Weapons of any kind are strictly prohibited on the SMU campus. Violators will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law."

To me a Gerber or Leatherman does not qualify as a weapon as it would be seen as a simple pocket knife.

should be "
A knife is an illegal weapon if the blade is over 5.5 inches (46.01 6A)."
Good lord, can't someone just invoke Godwin and get this thing locked? :)
--
"I hope you did something important today, 'cause it cost ya another day of your life."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695686 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:11:00 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695277 said by Leatherman08 :

According to the State of Texas:

»www.criminal-lawyer-hous ··· LAWS.pdf

A knive is a weapon if the blade is over 5.5 inches (46.01 6A).

SMU's Policy:

»www.smu.edu/apartments/p ··· cies.pdf

Which states: "WEAPONS
Weapons of any kind are strictly prohibited on the SMU campus. Violators will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law."

To me a Gerber or Leatherman does not qualify as a weapon as it would be seen as a simple pocket knife.
should be "
A knive is an illegal weapon if the blade is over 5.5 inches (46.01 6A)."
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695277 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:50:40 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695267
»www.criminal-lawyer-hous ··· LAWS.pdf

A knive is a weapon if the blade is over 5.5 inches (46.01 6A).

SMU's Policy:

»www.smu.edu/apartments/p ··· cies.pdf

Which states: "WEAPONS
Weapons of any kind are strictly prohibited on the SMU campus. Violators will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law."

To me a Gerber or Leatherman does not qualify as a weapon as it would be seen as a simple pocket knife.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19695267 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:48:28 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19693250 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19693250 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:55:04 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19692402 said by pacman326:

Thanks again guys, I feel a lot better about carrying my new multitool on my belt.
Awwwwww....I love a happy ending! [wipes away manly tear]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19692402 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:29:57 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19692055
While I must admit most of your answers were most entertaining, the reason why I asked is sadly liability. I am riding on a significant scholarship, and would hate to piss it away because of some overzealous student or cop.

I am an electrical engineering major who often works with mechanical engineers on various projects. In fact, I am entering a circuits based class this upcoming semester. I can't even begin to count the times I could of used something like my leatherman last semester. My group and I had to build a Gaussian speaker and an autonomous robot, both of which required fixes my new multitool could have easily provided rather that dragging one of our mech'es heavy toolkits.

I hope this answers your questions. I almost snorted out my orange juice when I saw my post on the front page. I hope everyone had a great X-mas, and I wish everyone a happy new year. And yes, I am an OP that always responds to his topic, I just got a little busy yesterday. :)

Thanks again guys, I feel a lot better about carrying my new multitool on my belt.

--
There are two things I am certain of relativity and human stupidity, yet I am unsure of the former. -Albert Einstein]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19692055 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:19:53 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691971 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691971 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:04:58 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691896 said by removed:

Interesting thread -- lots of laughs here. I've carried a multi-tool on my person for almost two years and have yet to run into any issues with campus police, or anyone else for that matter. The rules at both of the Texas colleges I've attended essentially state that pocketknives / multi-tools are allowed on campus as they're not banned by the Weapons section of the Texas Penal Code.
And to think that it only took eight pages to get a helpful and knowledgable answer. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691896 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:53:30 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691808 --
irc.removed.us - #dslr | DSLR Phishtracker | Email: removed@dslr.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691808 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:38:36 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691671 said by Greg_Z:

It is common sense. I doubt he needs to carry a LeathermanAgain, it's his business what he needs it for. And it's not everyone's common sense. You think it's common sense that he should leave it and my common sense says he should carry it because he may need it for some, currently un-thought of reason.
--
Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.

Gallery * Life * Work]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691671 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:13:29 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691606
Leave the toys in your car, or at home, unless there is a immediate need to carry it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691606 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:57:37 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691429 said by Greg_Z:

First question you should ask yourself, "What do I need it for on Campus?" Second Question from us, are you involved in Campus Maintenance, or work in the IT Department, where it will be of use for you? If the answer to the first of both is no, then leave it in your car.
If those where the questions he was seeking answers to those would have been the questions he asked.He wasn't seeking your approval.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691429 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:04:49 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691016 said by Johkal:

If you want to condemn my question, at least be accurate and quote it correctly.

It's not: "why do you feel you need a Leatherman?"

It was: "Why do you want to carry it?"
»Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus?

If you want to analyze and argue your interpretation of my question, please quote exactly. Also, don't say it's the same thing. Mis-quoting just one word can lead to mis-perceptions.
Sir, I have to hand it to you: I thought I was a past master at splitting hairs, but it's obvious that I am completely outclassed here. And I readily acknowledge that.

said by Johkal:

It's not: "why do you feel you need a Leatherman?"

It was: "Why do you want to carry it?"

If there's a material difference between those two statements, you'll have to break it down for me. As far as I can tell, there's little point in having a Leatherman if you cannot bring it where you feel you might have need of it. If you want to leave yours in your car, that's great. But other people may want to take theirs with them when they leave their car: Leathermans come with a belt sheath for a reason.

Perhaps we can agree that the point I made still works with either statement: the burden should on the "authorities" to come up with a plausible reason why he can't bring something as innocuous as a multitool onto the campus, not on the OP to justify why he should be able to. Because shifting the burden onto the OP is assuming that he is inherently untrustworthy when he has yet to give any grounds for anyone to think so.

Again, if rules and regs don't stand up to logical scrutiny, it undermines respect for them and the people who make them. If the OP asks campus security if he is allowed to bring his Leatherman on campus and they tell him "no," I hope the very next thing out of his mouth will be the question "why not?" And then it's up to them to justify their not trusting this person with something that poses no more of a threat than a Bic Stic wielded by a classmate.

At any rate, you said earlier you were out of "falling bricks." Well, so am I. I've already explained to you that it was the attitude behind the question I took exception to, not the question itself: if someone wants to carry a multitool, the "whys" of the thing should be entirely their own business and no one else's.

And while these forums certainly won't work if people can't ask all the questions they want, they also won't work if people who ask questions can't absorb relatively mild criticisms of the reasoning behind their questions.

Criticizing a statement by patiently laying out a line of counter-reasoning to it and "condemning" that statement are two different things.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691016 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:51:34 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691014
Just to answer it in case no one else has, ask your school. They would be able to answer whether your allowed to carry it on campus. Unless there is a state law that says you can't carry pocketknives, then it solely rests on the school's policy of whether or not it's 'legal' or not. nothing more to it than just that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19691014 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:50:34 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19690390 --
Happy Holidays !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19690390 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:33:49 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19690247
I used to carry one at work (security) to yank seals off trailers going to dock doors. I'm assuming someone did something stupid with one, because one day we got a decree that we could no longer carry anything like that.

Its better to be proactive and ask than have some security/cop or whatever see it and possibly give you grief.

I still have mine but it doesn't go on the belt to work. The mini-maglite I have will break plastic seals, and I have a pair of 9s in the guard shack for the rest.

Oh well, at least my leatherman isn't getting worn quicker, I suppose. I'd probably be replacing it by now if I had been using it for the past 3 years daily.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19690247 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:59:11 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689773 said by Thaler:

Just because I'm not whipping it out all over the place, doesn't mean I should be any less entitled to lug it around.

:o

:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689773 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:14:41 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689706
Chapter 46.01 of the Texas Penal Code defines an illegal knife as:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear

Additionally, Chapter 46.05 lists a switchblade knife as a Prohibited Weapon (unless possessed "solely as an antique or curio").

An expandable baton is considered a club and is a no-no to carry.

Read up:
»tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/sta ··· 46.01.00

****************************************

SMU student handbook (only thing I could keyword on was weapon)

»www.smu.edu/studentlife/ ··· Code.asp

3.30 WEAPONS

3.30(a) Students are prohibited from the use and possession of dangerous weapons or facsimiles of dangerous weapons on University property. Concealed handguns and/or other weapons covered under the Texas firearms statute which took effect on January 1, 1996, are not permitted on campus. Self-defense sprays legally sold over the counter for personal defense are permitted on campus.

3.30(b) Student-owned sporting firearms or other weapons (including all BB and pellet guns) must be registered and stored through arrangements with the SMU Police Department.

3.30(c) Weapons or reasonable facsimiles of weapons are not to be used in any game or play situations unless approved by the Director of Student Activities or his/her designee for use in activities sponsored by recognized organizations or University departments.

** My understanding of the above is that leatherman is legal to carry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689706 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:00:18 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689664 said by Johkal:

Oh come on. Unless you have a daily use for it, how many times a day or week do you need a personal multi-tool? Please!
Isn't that just the thing about these multi-purpose tools? Its in such a compact size and form so that it's handy for just such an occasion? I mean, I keep a mini-swiss on my keychain for convenience's sake. Just because I'm not whipping it out all over the place, doesn't mean I should be any less entitled to lug it around.

Long story short, you should be fine with it. Should an incident arise, you'd likely get a warning...if anything. But, if you want to play it totally safe, I'd ask someone at campus security.

Personally though, I'd have to laugh if security enforced a mutli-use blade policy. The potential harm on these things (except to an idiot user) is almost moot.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689664 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:50:56 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689456
It's not: "why do you feel you need a Leatherman?"

It was: "Why do you want to carry it?"
»Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus?

If you want to analyze and argue your interpretation of my question, please quote exactly. Also, don't say it's the same thing. Mis-quoting just one word can lead to mis-perceptions.
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689456 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:07:37 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689363 said by Johkal:

Automatically why should a question of "Why do you want to carry one" be associated with an anti-weapon attitude.
Just so you know: I don't consider it to be associated with an "anti-weapon" attitude. I consider it to be a part of an "anti-people" attitude.

It shouldn't be the OP's job to convince the campus administration (or security people, or whomever) why he feels he "ought to have" a Leatherman while on campus. The burden lies, instead, on them to come up with a plausible, reasonable explanation as to why a 3-inch knife (and pliers! And a can opener!) would pose a Very Real threat to the safety of the other students on a campus where many other Sharp Objects are readily available. As other people have pointed out, an ordinary pen is also perfectly suitable for stabbing people. So much so, in fact, that most Federal prisons issue inmates a special flexible "prison pen" if they need to do writing of any kind:

»www.defensedevices.com/s ··· pen.html

Rules and regulations have to make sense. If they don't, then people will quickly lose respect for them (and the people that created them). And unless the people who run the campus can think of a good reason why this person can't be trusted with a multitool, then by golly, he should be trusted with a multitool.

It's simply a difference in how you view people, that's all.
Are they inherently untrustworthy and not to be allowed to do anything without explicitly asking permission first? Or should they be allowed maximum freedom, subject only to the maximum freedoms of other people? In asking the OP "why do you feel you need a Leatherman?" you're shifting the "burden of proof" onto him when it should be the other way around.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong so why should he have to justify bringing his multitool to the campus? I can't say I've heard of the Leatherman people soliciting endorsements from Charles Manson to boost sales. Other people, of course, may view a Leatherman as a "weapon" rather than a "tool" and that's their prerogative. Perhaps these same people would feel better if all the students were required to use those flexible prison pens rather than those potentially lethal Bic Stics they're always twirling around during lectures.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689363 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:43:03 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689211
I read the original question, and then the rest of the thread... even the silly parts.

I have had three Leathermen multi-tools. I am the only person that I personally know that has worn them out. Not because I have a job that requires me to use one, but simply because I ALWAYS find an use for it. The point of carrying it is because you never know when you will need a knife, screw driver, bottle-opener, etc...

I have used them for everything from doing wiring around the house, to the time I had to remove a rather large (three inches) splinter that sank itself about half an inch into my arm.

As for the people that are scared that someone will use these as a weapon on the campus... In that situation, a Leathermen is not on the top of my list of fears. The average classroom has many things in it that are perfect as weapons to the imaginative mind, let alone an ex-Marine like myself.

If you ask me, it is a personal decision to carry one or not. There are obvious places you do not want to carry them, like airports or court houses, but most places I have been in could care less. I have even gone into a police station wearing one, and they said not a word about it. I always had it with me when I was going to college, and again, no one told me I could not. In fact I had my math teacher ask to borrow it once to fix the projector.

That's all... just my opinion... and we all know what opinions are like!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19689211 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:11:31 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688934 --
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688934 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:10:05 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688897 said by Johkal:

Guess you missed this: "Asking why the OP wants to carry a Leatherman can be helpful.Helpful to whom? Me...no, You...doubtful, The OP...he already knows. So again just who will the information be helpful to?
--
"The world is a book; those who do not travel read but a single page." -St. Augustine]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688897 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:00:04 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688856 --
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688856 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:52:03 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688840 --
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688840 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:49:04 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688839 said by Johkal:

Asking why the OP wants to carry a Leatherman can be helpful.Helpful to whom?

It is not any ones business why, PERIOD!
When that kind of question is asked, it is asking the person to JUSTIFY why, and in the USA it is (or at least in pre-left-wing paranoia days it did not used to be anyone else's business.

I defy anyone to start asking women to justify every single item they carry in their purse. ;)
--
"The world is a book; those who do not travel read but a single page." -St. Augustine]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688839 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:48:46 EDT Re: Is it legal to carry my leatherman on campus? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688794 I will base the need based on your answer, then you shouldn't".
--
Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.

Gallery * Life * Work]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Is-it-legal-to-carry-my-leatherman-on-campus-19688794 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:40:41 EDT