Topic 'Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing?' in forum 'TekSavvy' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19567993 en Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:59:42 EDT Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:59:42 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19860804 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19860804 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:23:34 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858378
It's just good business, TekSavvy is looking to the Future which is good for them and us
Gruesome]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858378 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:49:07 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858346 said by Gruesome:

Speeds will become less relevant, I can already watch streaming hi def on my 5mb connectionExactly why don't cogeco offer lower tiers with higher bandwidth? They don't want any of their sheep using Internet TV/Movie streaming services, because it will cut into their lucrative VOD services.
Who ever figures out how to profit on the Volume and not the speed will be the winner.
Bingo!
Cogeco is preparing for Docsis 3 which could have speeds approaching 105mb sec, (which doesn't make sense because some of their nodes are already congested) but I'll still be with Teksavvy unless they can raise the cap or charge me like you guys do per block of Bytes.
I will be sticking with Teksavvy regardless. Perhaps at some point in the future cogeco 'may' offer different tiers of service, more in line with current consumer usage patterns, though I highly doubt it. Cogeco will continue raping their sheep & offering overloaded nodes & sub-par service.

Teksavvy is progressive in their offering of a 200GB a month cap. It suits me fine & enables me to fully enjoy what the Internet has to offer. What's more, they do it at a price lower than what I would pay for cogeco. There is no way cogeco can compete with Teksavvy in that regard; in my eyes, at least.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858346 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:41:26 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858148
Speeds will become less relevant, I can already watch streaming hi def on my 5mb connection

Who ever figures out how to profit on the Volume and not the speed will be the winner.

Cogeco is preparing for Docsis 3 which could have speeds approaching 105mb sec, (which doesn't make sense because some of their nodes are already congested) but I'll still be with Teksavvy unless they can raise the cap or charge me like you guys do per block of Bytes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858148 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:57:05 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858048 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858048 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:33:31 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858044
I'm simply pointing out some of my experiences.

Your humvee uses proportionally, lets say 1/4 more gas then an average car. Going from 5megs/sec to 20megs/sec is 4 times more.

If Rogers was not throttling their customers usage, they're network would be overloaded. They would have to drop the sync rates because they just wouldn't be able to beef things up enough.
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TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858044 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:32:49 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858017 said by TSI Marc:

said by Gruesome:

A better analogy would be a jumbo jet stopping at a gas station and filling up. What if everybody had a jumbo jet?
Ok Mark you're always great on these Forums but that analogy sucks

A better analogy is that new vehicles are constantly coming on the road that continue to require more and more gas per fill up(ie hi def streaming etc) This is a reality as sure as the sun coming up tomorrow.
So basic business we have a demand for a product which is bits and Bytes
The higher the speed the more product you can sell
From there its a simple process of figuring out delivery to pricing to meet the opportunity

As I've said before if you guys price things out and $10 per 100 GB is not profitable with all costs considered than please raise the price
I want to support an excellent business that provides the product that I want to purchase

How much simpler does it get than that?

Gruesome

PS If jumbo jets started cruising up and down Ontario streets you can bet your ass that someone would be bright enough to open a filling station and make some money, even a drive through timmies that had an elevating window
you know for different size planes....oh and 400 packs of timbits for the Jumbo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858017 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:27:15 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858006
I don't disagree with you but I think it's a bit more complicated...
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TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19858006 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:24:42 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857932 or they would renovate existing gas stations to make money
This is an opportunity nothing less

Gruesome]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857932 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:06:17 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857906 said by Gruesome:

You know what I can't even let go of this it drives me crazy just thinking about.

It's as logical as a gas station saying they don't want humvees filling up at their pumps because their tanks are too big!
Yikes am I insane?!?!
Make some money ... buy that timmies you always wanted!

Good Lord!
A better analogy would be a jumbo jet stopping at a gas station and filling up. What if everybody had a jumbo jet?
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TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857906 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:58:14 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857029 said by JGROCKY:

I'm currently trying to take small steps as you can see on this topic as I don't want to misrepresent TekSavvy's intentions but in the same breath don't want to seem sympathetic to any particular side.
Well, here's some motivation for you: who pays your salary? The MAFIAA, their Conservative shills, or downloaders? All sides are asking for a free ride of some sort, but only one actually sends you any money. So long as you remain compliant to the law, which side you advocate for should be a fairly simple conundrum.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19857029 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:10:31 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19855604 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19855604 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:22:53 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853831
It's as logical as a gas station saying they don't want humvees filling up at their pumps because their tanks are too big!
Yikes am I insane?!?!
Make some money ... buy that timmies you always wanted!

Good Lord!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853831 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:08:04 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853756
In the end, we're going to do things the way we know how to do best.... Do it honestly, be open about things and defend things when wrong.

CAIP will work and lobby to protect us but until we know where the government's path is headed (where they show us the initial cards they want to play on a more official level) on this topic everything we say/do is pretty pre-mature. Everyone knows the possible pitfalls of attacking this subject... It's the kind of stuff that may even bring down a government, so if the conservatives are going to go down this road, rest assured they'll be walking on shells as they know broadband services are very important to all Canadians, never-mind what they look at or download.

Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853756 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:56:38 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853675 said by JGROCKY:

I appreciate your concern guys, but as one entity there isn't much TekSavvy can do. We belong to a group that lobbies for ISP rights (caip.ca) and we also participate very actively through both Bell and generally speaking out, in various forums, on our ISP views... They're being heard, you can count on that, as even the likes of Bell are discussing various activities openly with us...... for the greater good.See, I didn't realize this and I'm glad to hear it now. I guess in this case, all I'd ask for is a clearer statement of what you guys (or your groups) are advocating.

From an implementation perspective, the government would be hard-pressed to force this on to us as it would be nearly impossible to filter the right content... A very specific event in Belgium is being used to blanket a possible outcome..... This doesn't mean there's a chance things will repeat themselves. If there's something I have to hand to Canadians in general, is their ability to sit and think much of the major things through before acting. We're pretty extreme on various fronts but we're generally pretty good for stopping to think things through for a moment.... that's why we're so well liked in the world!
That said, none of this happens in a vacuum. If we come to sensible decisions, it's because all the stakeholders speak up and make their views known. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853675 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:46:46 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853651
The problem with the proposed content filtering is that there's an excellent chance it will never work properly. Theoretically, people who want to download my channel's programming may be prevented from doing so by their ISP because of defective filtering software.

As a result, I may have to sue ISPs whose filters are impeding my business operations. Kind of ironic, isn't is?

There's your problem Rocky. Even if you abide by the rules, you may still find yourself in a compromising situation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853651 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:43:18 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853628 said by JGROCKY:

Hi TobiasFunke,

From a reality of things, ISPs lose no matter what. Our costs for people doing P2P are going through the roof for stuff that I can only assume are in many cases not legit.
I keep hearing this and can only assume you would choose to lose.
This is something that I've tried to impress on my old ISP and something that ISP's, Cable Providers, Phone Companies etc need to understand.
Eventually they will all be utilities in the strictest sense, I don't know if you find this an unsavory notion or not but of course that hardly matters.

All communication whether it be e-mail, bit torrent, television , telephone or whatever else they come up with is all the same. its bits and bites coming through a pipe into and out of a location

My point is that eventually Bell Cogeco Rogers will be nothing more than than a hydro or gas company and people will pay for x/Kb

Sure some will provide other services but all you need to do is look at new on line streaming and downloading service like hulu, HBO and Other Networks to see where this is going.

I thought you guys had realized this when you started charging $10 per 100 GB

When I saw this I said "They get it, finally someone gets it"

If $10 per 100 GB is not profitable than I urge you to make it profitable
I have no problem paying for the services I am using and ensuring the company I am purchasing it from is healthy.

But at the end of the day you are selling bits and bytes(no not the snack :))
like a gas company sells gas or a hydro company electricity

The first companies to understand this and adjust to it will be the winners and best able to profit from it.

"From a reality of things, ISPs lose no matter what"

This is an opportunity I wouldn't be with Teksavvy had it not been for your cap friendly environment and I suspect you owe a lot of growth to it.

Guesome

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853628 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:40:53 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853523
From an implementation perspective, the government would be hard-pressed to force this on to us as it would be nearly impossible to filter the right content... A very specific event in Belgium is being used to blanket a possible outcome..... This doesn't mean there's a chance things will repeat themselves. If there's something I have to hand to Canadians in general, is their ability to sit and think much of the major things through before acting. We're pretty extreme on various fronts but we're generally pretty good for stopping to think things through for a moment.... that's why we're so well liked in the world!
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853523 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:29:00 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853421 said by TobiasFunke:

On the particular issue of content-filtering, I think an ISP's perspective will happen to coincide greatly with that of privacy and free speech advocates, but that doesn't mean you have to adopt that position in all matters.I wouldn't be so sure. Look at AT&T, who have announced that they're going to do this voluntarily.

Of course, most people think this would be suicidal for them. They'd lose a large percentage of their customers almost immediately, and more importantly, they'd lose the neutral-carrier protection that prevents them from being sued for carrying copyrighted material.

That's the strange thing... as it stands now, they're content-neutral, and can't be held liable for what customers do with their network. As soon as they start trying to filter it, they lose that protection, and can be held liable for any content that their filters miss. Even the average joe would have a legitimate claim against them if so much as a home movie was carried over AT&T's network without the author's permission.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853421 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:14:23 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853252
I can appreciate your position, Rocky. On the one hand, you're faced with rising costs due to people who are quite likely engaging in copyright infringement (though I'll point out that there are more and more legitimate services that are also bandwidth-heavy). On the other hand, these are your customers and you pride yourself on being a customer-friendly ISP.

What I'm pointing out is the very real danger for you that sitting on the sidelines in this debate will result with being conscripted into doing all the dirty work for copyright owners, while selling out your customers. Worse, you'll be the ones forced to foot the bill or face legal liability.

You don't need to "choose sides". You have your own stake in this matter!
On the particular issue of content-filtering, I think an ISP's perspective will happen to coincide greatly with that of privacy and free speech advocates, but that doesn't mean you have to adopt that position in all matters.

I think staying out of the debate is a mistake. Keeping quiet only adds weight to the words of who do all the talking and their interests are not the same as yours - in fact they may turn out to be your worst enemies if they get what they're asking for lately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19853252 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:52:18 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852737
Having to filter is no remaining neutral, and refusing to filter is not taking one side over the other. Saying to the government that you're opposed to mandatory filtering is simply making it known that you don't wish to take sides, and that you would rather not be pulled into the dispute between copyright holders and customers.

They're trying to drag you into it, and trying to prevent that is your best bet for remaining unbiased.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852737 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:44:57 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852448
What you have to consider is that it's not really our fight to have. This is entirely a matter of consumer affairs.

ISPs simply provide an onramp to the internet. It's not our position to judge right or wrong as to what you use/view/download (those who do this by choice [ie: without legal request] are abusing their powers in my mind). In the same breath, it's also not right for us to chose sides in this case, as both sides have a case in this circumstance on some levels. From a reality of things, ISPs lose no matter what. Our costs for people doing P2P are going through the roof for stuff that I can only assume are in many cases not legit. On the flip side, I don't agree with the organisations' tactics to blanket everything and taking things to the extreme as they are attempting to do.

So, unfortunately, all we can do is sit and wait and get our orders on this matter... All ISPs have to be unbiased to this in my mind as, as mentioned above, it's not our place to judge right or wrong... If we did this, where would it end!? ISPs would be given an open window into people's lives.... Something I don't think ISPs, clients or government organisations want. As a result, if you the customers raise up and make enough of a fuss, then the government, or the powers that be, are going to have to come together and bring a happy medium to the table... No matter what, I/we side on things being fair for all, no matter how it tastes.

Regards,

Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852448 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:09:31 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852329 said by pro_tek:

and every one can afford office right? office 2007 standard edition is only 500$!
I can afford OpenOffice....it's free and just as good!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19852329 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:52:22 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19850367 said by JGROCKY:

said by Gruesome:

Rocky that seems like a strange answer coming from you.
Not that I don't think you should follow the law, but have you read it? It's not law yet but It could place an onerous burden on your business. I'm not saying it does but what if it contained no safe harbor such as the one in the US.
This law could impact your business in a negative way, having said that it could affect it in a positive
One thing for sure a piece of legislature that may be passed into law could affect your business.
Forget how it affects us it could affect you and you should know if it does and choose how to react to it.
Maybe I'm misreading and you do know whats in it and don't see a problem your business
Gruesome
Problem with Politics is they, in almost every scenario possible, aren't made accountable, so the only thing as a business, that we can do, is wait, take it in, and respond/react... TSI has always been about open-book strategies and decision-making, so I've simply spelt out what our intentions are. As in Michael Geist's blog, the only thing that can be done at this point is wait and see what they come up with. :huh:

There are too many unknowns in the bill that saying anything one way or the other has no value (at least not right now).

Rocky
Rocky, I didn't think this strategy was a good one back a few weeks ago when you first articulated it, and here's a good reason why:
Canadian Copyright Lobby Seeking Mandated ISP Filtering

Later in the conversation, the group is asked what their dream legislation would look like. The first response? ISP liability, with the respondent pointing to Belgium as an example of an ideal model ("the file sharing issue will go away there as ISPs take down people"). Last summer, a Belgian court ordered an ISP to install filtering software to identify and block copyrighted content (the decision is currently being appealed).
Behind closed doors, the music industry is now lobbying to turn ISPs into content cops and for the right to sue ISPs. This is why it's not good enough to wait-and-see what the government delivers. By the time it's public, it's a lot tougher to change.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19850367 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:15:10 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19623095 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19623095 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:41:44 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19621681 said by panterateama:

[...]Maya 8 is $2000+ for a full version including hair and cloth plugins[...]Edit: Maya Unlimited is $7000; you would know that if you actually bought it. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19621681 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:53:30 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19621450
hopefully it will undergo some serious changes... heres to hoping
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Creativity from the Shadows]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19621450 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:06:20 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617669
Pantera, you won't have to worry about including any DRM crap in your submissions to my television channel. Since it's going to be a public access channel, I'll arrange it so you can submit just about ANYTHING! I'll have the appropriate codec for it! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617669 Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:00:36 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617310 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617310 Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:06:17 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617013
But im not worried about the ability to play these formats... im worried that in my feild of work, i will soon have to provide my bosses with these medias...

BTW has anyone heard any news on this bill???
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Creativity from the Shadows]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19617013 Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:18:27 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19614152
Computer animation? Yikes! I stand corrected. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19614152 Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:58:10 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19613024
DVD is 480p, lower resolution than downsampled HDCP content. So there's no point on having HDCP with DVD, because it wouldn't provide any protection.

But for the same reason (downsampling HDCP content on non-compliant devices), it will never be illegal to use HDCP-protected content on older devices. For SD displays, they don't display 540p, so it won't matter. For older HD devices, that's where there's a concern, but at least it still plays.

Does HDCP suck? Majorly. But it's important to know why it sucks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19613024 Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:44:12 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19609075
and @ Guspaz, Im not really worried about things being cracked... its the fact that we are spending tax dollars on something that will get cracked anyway... heck my grandfather knows how to rip a cd... so why are we spending all this money for nothing?
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Creativity from the Shadows]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19609075 Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:17:41 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19608067
I've never worried about DRM. Because as long as they want to keep pushing DRM, I'll keep pirating the content. Don't want to give me the ability to buy it DRM free? Fine, I'll get it myself DRM-free.

Don't mistake my earlier statements on abandonware for a position against piracy. I'm just pointing out that abandonware is still copyrighted material.

Most major forms of DRM get hacked. CSS, AACS, BD+, FairPlay, Plays4Sure, etc. They've all been hacked digitally. I mean, this is a fact that, whenever you have an open device like a computer doing the decoding, there's the possibility to crack it. It's impossible to create a computer-based DRM system that can't be cracked.

Eventually (and this is starting to happen), Big Media will realize that all DRM does is give an advantage to piracy, because pirates get better quality products than their own customers. Compare a DRM'd CD to a lossless rip stripped of DRM of said CD released over BitTorrent.

It's faster/easier/more convenient to get the pirated version, and it plays (or can be easily made to play) on any device you can think of. And it won't infect those devices with rootkits.

This is not a technological, financial, or business obstacle (preventing the media companies from matching the experience). This is simply one of a massive industrial inertia. But even the smallest counter-force against a massive inertia can deflect the path of an object, and the media industry is gradually starting to shift away from their previous path.

In the mean time, I'll keep pirating. I often even buy the things I pirate if I like them enough. Imagine that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19608067 Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:53:43 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19607837
It won't matter what kind of legislation is introduced in Parliament. Hackers and crackers around the world will find ways to circumvent all that protectionist crap and distribute their wares to anyone who asks for it. All this work to protect "intellectual property" will be all for nothing. I've understood all that when I was approved for a television license by the CRTC.

I've decided my station will use NO copy protection or DRM technology whatsoever. There's no point to protect anything these days! Not only will the satellite feed be free-to-air, I'll also be distributing everything I can via BitTorrent! Other corporations are terrified of the technology, but I'm gonna milk it for all it's worth! In fact, I'm gonna ABUSE it! :)

Any new legislation will be nothing more than graft for the labels, studios and distributors; the legislation will do absolutely nothing to protect the creators or the consumers of intellectual property. But luckily, technology now makes it possible for the creators to connect directly with their consumers and bypass all the middlemen. And even in the areas where there are technology middlemen, it's still possible to distribute a demo film for example at no cost to you or your intended clients. It's called YouTube, Google Video, BitTorrent and so on.

So don't worry so much. We have the means to invalidate any legislation introduced in Parliament. Besides, if ever draconian legislation was introduced that would make most consumer items worthless overnight, you can bet the owners of those now obsolete and illegal items will remember the destruction of their material property at the next election!

One last thing. What in the hell are you buying that will end up costing you a total of $20,000? I haven't even spent $5,000 yet and I have everything I need to shoot, edit and distribute HD movies in 24p!

Since my TV channel will be a public access channel, I have to behave like a cheapskate. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19607837 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:54:32 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19607500
I feel sick...

Like Candoo said, Western Digital has these new drives that block out certain file types...

So here's my thought... Mp3 players: The manufacturers of these devices may decide to lock their players into playing only DRM enabled music (itunes) which is fine if people only listened to copywrited material like music albums... but what about those that may use their mp3 players to replay self notes they took on a digital voice recorder or inspirational tapes they bought years ago and want to convert to their current technology?

Digital video players: mp4 players would instantly become useless: what company do you know of offers their videos in mp4 format? They offer it in copy protection enabled formats like wmv or others even if they are not copywriten works because the sites they post them on require them in a certain format

DVD/HD DVD/Bluray: All production companies (including small, low budget, independent production houses like myself) would be forced to go over to HD DVD or Bluray formats since DVD does not support HDCP and therefore would possibly constitute an opening for allowing your viewers/users to copy your works (now to me, I don't care: free publicity = more business. but to the big cheese who monopolize the movie and tv industries, this is a loss in the low millions... a small price for them but they still complain) BTW... do you guys realize how much it would cost for a low budget independent 1 or 2 man production company/contractors to buy both a Bluray AND an HD DVD burner to provide their viewers/companies they work for with the HDCP enabled media they prefer. This also means that unlike the gradual change from VHS to DVD the change from DVD to HD compatible devices will be extremely fast and costly

On the subject of small production houses: Suddenly I and all the others out there have to go out and buy a Bluray and/or HD DVD burner (minimum $300 on www.canadacomputers.com), an HDCP compatible video card (since almost no companies are carrying 7000 series video cards now, I would have to get an 8000 series PCI-Express (minimum of $150 for anything worth playing games/editing video on at www.canadacomputers.com) I would have to buy a PCI-Express compatible motherboard since up until now I didn’t need one (minimum $100 for a decent expandable and upgradeable model at www.canadacomputers.com) now this board also forces me to go over to DDR2 memory and since I would need approximately 1-2gigs of RAM to do video editing/3D it would increase cost again (minimum $60 for 2 gigs of a decent brand of memory at www.canadacomputers.com) and a flat panel (very bad for video editing) that is also HDCP compatible (minimum $275 for anything with decent performance for editing/gaming at www.canadacomputers.com)... Now I think that’s all I need… at a total of $885 plus darned Canadian taxes for only the parts I need… (keep in mind that’s not even a full system replacement… that’s only 5 components that aren’t even in the mid range… these are the budget parts) that’s pretty expensive considering it may be a single person just trying to start a small company trying to get a foot into the industry (keep in mind that the rest of the components needed for a full system may add up to another $800) so figure $1600+tax for the system and then another $5000-$20000 for software packages that do not even make you money yet… these are just to make a non-profitable demo-reels to send to companies in the hopes of getting a job…. The HOPES!!! Now am I and others like me who just got out of college, expected to go out and buy a new $1800 system and up to $20000 in software in the hopes of getting a job… and if they don’t get a job, who picks up the bill??? (by the way, notice that I used a copywriten company name to show you guys the costs of some of these products… you think they will sue me? Probably not. They are a small enough company that the publicity that I just gave them would probably make the owner happy… trust me… ive met him on many occasions)

Multi Media Computers: Many people now have computers in their entertainment centers that they use as central hubs for their media… most of these systems have some form of input card for cable tv, playstation, Xbox (including the wireless media center connectivity application designed for this purpose by Microsoft themselves) dvd player, stereos, etc… the point is that all of this capability would become obsolete and possible illegal since they are openings to creating copies of said medias.

Tivo/PVR: EVERY SINGLE PVR AND TIVO EVER SOLD WOULD BECOME ILLEGAL TO OWN/USE!!! Now that means every bell expressvue PVR, TIVO, starchoice PVR etc will immediately become an illegal device and since you do not own them (your service provider probably does) but they are in your home you become liable for using them as well as your service provider being liable for distributing them… Think about this bell guys…

VHS recorders may also become illegal (u know your normal, everyday VCRs) because they are “obsolete technology” that have no real use besides “illegally” backing up your already purchased media since no production companies are still creating VHS copes of their movies.

HD/HDCP TVs: thanks to Bluray/HD DVD we will all need to get HD/HDCP compatible tvs to make sure we don’t break any laws by putting an old RCA or coaxial only TV in the way and maybe be able to backup a movie you paid for to make sure that the investment you made does not end up getting scratched to the point of no return.

Personal Videos/Photos: Ever stop and thought to yourself what is copywriten? Well think about it: just about every single logo/brand name/store name is copywriten or at least their designs are… so what happens when you take a picture or video and one of these logos ends up in the shot? Well believe it or not, when a production TV or Movie house catches a logo in the shot they are required to 1. pay the company royalties (unless the company approves of it or sponsors the production) 2. blur the logo or 3. interpose a fake logo that the production company then has to verify (extensively) that the logo that they just used is also not copywriten in anyway. Now for those big companies it’s not a huge deal since they set aside a budget just for this purpose. But ask yourself if you have the resources to do this kind of thing at home? And if not… are you willing to sell or throw away your new digital camera/video camera? Makes you think doesn’t it…

Hopefully someone will see this and give it a little extra thought.

Keep in mind that these examples may be a little overboard or even obsessive but to be honest I had to save this file in wordpad last night and finish it tonight because I was sure that it would get far too long…

I hope that someone in the know will link to this and show the big shots what might happen… from the point of view of a consumer

And hopefully they will all realize that there are people out there who work 24/7 to circumvent security measures that are currently in place and that the arms race between the security makers and the security breakers will probably never end… so why waste billions upon billions of tax dollars on rewriting electronics as we know them and a stupid rewrite of laws that have been in place for years. Why aren’t these tax dollars being used to erase laws that are no longer enforced or even intelligently valid. Did you know that “it is illegal to kill a Bigfoot/sasquatch if one is ever found.” These are the laws that were passed in the courts before… taking up millions of pounds of paper in law books around the country… killing millions of trees… is this how we want our government to act? “Protect the environment” but not if it has to do with making sure that stupid laws control their lives…

Arg… I hope I haven’t insulted or offended anyone by making this post but it needs to be said and heard… pass on the message and make sure this doesn’t happen to us…

2 days to think about it, 4 hours of typing and thinking, 1 peaved off wife because of said time spent writing letter… 1 more step forward in the name of freedom of speech, Priceless! - Also copywriten lol

Pantera :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19607500 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:43:49 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603321
With the new law in Canada,the police will be able to spy your computer or spy what you do from your ISP. And all this proof could be acceptable for a juge. Is it true?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603321 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:03:04 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603217 said by milnoc:

said by MAT777:

If it continue like this, we are going to probably have one up the ass.
Ask, and you shall receive! :D »www.campchaos.com/blog-a ··· _up.html
Yea, I didn't see it that way. I guess it's what they like, to see. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603217 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:42:57 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603097 politics.slashdot.org/ar ··· /2357247

quote:
ToriaUru writes to let us know that Michael Geist is reporting that the Canadian Minister of Industry will not be introducing the proposed Canadian Digital Millennium Copyright Act legislation as scheduled. That proposed legislation, discussed here a couple of weeks back, is now reaching Canada's mainstream press. Geist doesn't speculate on why the legislation is being withdrawn, but it could have something to do with the massive popular outcry against the proposal that Geist helped to orchestrate.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19603097 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:23:12 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602949 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602949 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:54:37 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602875 Besides, If I bought that drive, I'd just return it. And now that company will lose more money than they thought possible, because everyone will avoid them like the plague. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602875 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:42:28 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602846 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602846 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:36:32 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602834 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602834 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:34:51 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602794 said by Candoo3:

There is so much influence (greed)from the RIAA and Hollywood, that I was just reading on another forum, that Western Digital, has now incorporated a prog in their "World ?? hard drive". It is suppose to be a 1 T drive, mainly meant for servers. The drive itself filters files, and will not let you transfer files that have extensions of certain known media types. That's going a litte to far, and I'm sure WD is getting kick backs. Good lord. I could sing my OWN song and record it to wav, convert to MP3, but I couldn't share it with anyone using this drive, unless by VPN. Same with my home-spun movies. That's nuts.
That's not quite accurate (or fair). This is not a hard-disk we're talking about, this is NAS device (think embedded server with a hard drive). And the drive's restrictions on media types are only between different users.

As in, if we're two different users on the same server, only the owner of files can access the media files (over LAN or internet). Other users on the same device can access all of their own files, but not your media files.

This is an odd restriction, but it's not exactly crippling. Or even worth caring about. You can still share all those media files over a LAN or the internet as much as you want using the NAS devices' own software.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602794 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:27:32 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602772 said by MAT777:

If it continue like this, we are going to probably have one up the ass.Ask, and you shall receive! :D »www.campchaos.com/blog-a ··· _up.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19602772 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:22:39 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601226 said by Candoo3:

There is so much influence (greed)from the RIAA and Hollywood, that I was just reading on another forum, that Western Digital, has now incorporated a prog in their "World ?? hard drive". It is suppose to be a 1 T drive, mainly meant for servers. The drive itself filters files, and will not let you transfer files that have extensions of certain known media types. That's going a litte to far, and I'm sure WD is getting kick backs. Good lord. I could sing my OWN song and record it to wav, convert to MP3, but I couldn't share it with anyone using this drive, unless by VPN. Same with my home-spun movies. That's nuts.
This kind of things cannot be accepted. For me, this kind of things start there and finish in a total control system. I know Microsoft tried a thing like this a couple of years ago.

It's like when the gov start to place camera in our city. It start for "checking rush ours" then for Speeding then for everything. If it continue like this, we are going to probably have one up the ass.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601226 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:10:03 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601102 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601102 Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:47:31 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601038 said by MAT777:

But even if they are CR, they can get copied if they have the permission of the cr owner right?
Sure, if you want to go thru weeks of red-tape to get approval just to photo-copy a few pages. Takes a lot less effort to spend the time to "write" it out in point form, not duplicating the work. Honestly, I don't believe that the author him/herself would have a problem with copying a few pages. Most non-fiction writers base their work on fact and knowledge that they have gained, and are about passing that on for others to learn from. That isn't to say that you are stealing their entire work. To me, it isn't the authors complicating things, just as it would also seem in cases that it isn't the music artist complicating things either. It's the money hungry publishers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19601038 Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:33:00 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19600775 said by TobiasFunke:

said by MAT777:

TobiasFunke, I have read your post and I understand. I have questions:

A french site I know had to remove screenshot of a beta game. Is this kind of thing have something to do with the new bill?

I heard rumor about the new bill. It said, the police will be able to spy your computer or spy what you do from your ISP. And all this proof could be acceptable for a juge. Is it true?
The new bill could affect how a screenshot is required to be removed. Whether or not it should be removed is most likely still a matter of regular copyright law, which we've had for a long time now.

I haven't heard anything about increased surveillance powers for police... I don't think it's likely that amendments to the Copyright Act would introduce such provisions and, even in the unlikely event that they did, powers such as you're suggesting would grossly violate the Charter and possibly some other privacy legislation.
So they could remove the screenshot faster if I understand well.

What about the filter on the ISP that block p2p in the u.s. Is this thing came with the new bill?

If I remember well, Harper have introduce some filter to block illegal porno sites. I was afraid this kind of filter was hiding the possibly to filter skype or anything else non-porno related. Is this in the new bill or this is already started from an other law?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19600775 Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:45:20 EDT Re: Upcoming copyright bill: what is TekSavvy doing? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19600750 said by Candoo3:

said by MAT777:

Can anybody explain me what kind of new powers the new bill in the u.s gave to the authorities?
I can't speak of the "powers" administered, but can give you an example of how silly things can be. This isn't internet related, but book copyrights. I do a lot of historical research in the US, using libraries and archives that hold info, mainly in book form. These would be deemed "special collections", not the average stuff on the shelves. I can request a book I want, and if it contains info that is of interest to me, and it spans say 7 pages, I am only allowed to photocopy 3 or 4. More than that is considered infringemant. Yet, if I leave the reading room and return 2 hours later, I am then allowed to re-request the book, and copy the remaining 3 or 4. Go figure that one. I still end up, say with the whole chapter, just not all at once. But this is the type of silliness that the new CR laws have brought about, and it's up to these establishments to self enforce them. Strangely, I have seen some written works that are considered CR, and yet I've seen them available in PDF form, on CD, in ebook form, and yet that is legal.
But even if they are CR, they can get copied if they have the permission of the cr owner right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Upcoming-copyright-bill-what-is-TekSavvy-doing-19600750 Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:40:44 EDT