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ISP_Worker
Anon
2008-Mar-19 4:08 pm
Nexxia throttling?I work for an ISP, and I deal with Sympatico/Bell everyday, dealing with tickets and troubles...
Just got off the phone, started with a Nexxia rep telling me that bandwidth is being shapped/slowed down for Sympatico AND DSL Resellers in regards to P2P traffic... I asked for confirmation, she placed me on hold, and came back saying that yes, this is true. Then I asked for a manager... she said she couldn't transfer me, but gave me a name and number to call, talked to that person, and she wouldn't come right out to say yes this is all true, but is not denying it, and tried to explain the impact P2P traffic has on all customers, whether they are on resellers or not...
I can't confirm that any of this is true... 1 person said it is, the 2nd higher up didn't denie it and tried hard to explain why something like this would be done if it were...
I looked around a few forums here to see if anything close to this had been reported... but I see nothing... |
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pstewart Premium Member join:2005-10-12 Peterborough, ON |
pstewart
Premium Member
2008-Mar-19 4:50 pm
They definately have the ability I believe... they have been doing a lot of software upgrades on the backend that lead me to believe it's possible.
Having said that, several Bell reps to ISP's are denying it so hard to prove it out at this point... |
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to ISP_Worker
I have not seem an actual case of Bell using traffic shaping on a wholesale DSL connection, but I have heard rumours that they are going to implement it, or have already started to do so in some cases.
This is contradictory to what my Bell account team has been telling me - specifically, that Bell is NOT using shaping on wholesale connections.
Bell's congestion issues are not in their backbone connections - they're in the DSL aggregation network. Traffic shaping Sympatico only simply chases customers to wholesale DSL providers, and doesn't solve the problem.
It wouldn't surprise me if they did in fact start to traffic shape wholesale DSL connections. |
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sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa |
sbrook
Mod
2008-Mar-19 7:52 pm
As I understand it, they are shaping Sympatico customers and anyone who uses a 3rd party DSL LOGIN account but with a Sympatico connection. In other words, you have Sympatico, but you've used your monthly allowance of 60GB, so you get a $10 login account from a 3rd party which gives you unlimited bandwidth. Sympatico/Nexxia WILL throttle that LOGIN connection.
If you have a DSL connection with the 3rd party then you aren't throttled. |
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ISP_Worker to ISP_Worker
Anon
2008-Mar-20 10:53 am
to ISP_Worker
Listening on 1 side to a conversation between a Bell manager and the owner of the company here, and it sure sounds like Bell IS messing with reseller traffic... |
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sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa |
sbrook
Mod
2008-Mar-20 1:53 pm
I've now heard this rumour from another source. Still don't know how valid it all is, but if it IS valid, my reaction is what RIGHT does Bell have to throttle a 3rd party ISP's customers' traffic?
This really should go to the CRTC, never mind the CCTS. This stinks of trying to reduce competition. |
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andyb Premium Member join:2003-05-29 SW Ontario |
andyb
Premium Member
2008-Mar-20 1:55 pm
I would think this is illegal. |
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sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa |
sbrook
Mod
2008-Mar-20 2:13 pm
Without knowing the details of the 3rd party contract, my gut reaction is that you're right. BUT ... it certainly reeks of anticompetitive behaviour! |
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to ISP_Worker
It would be interesting to hear from Acanac, Velcom, Teksavvy and Electonic Box about this. It would no doubt affect all these businesess as a whole if this happens. Maybe they have more to add to the rumour mill. It all points to collusion. for those who wonder what collusion is: » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta ··· ollusion» en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion |
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andyb Premium Member join:2003-05-29 SW Ontario |
to ISP_Worker
I still believe it's bullshit just because I think its illegal for one and 2 they dont supply the backhaul the idependants supply thier own up/down on thier own networks.The only thing that effects them is the signon BAS after that its router to thier own gigE or better lines for transit,unless they are strictcly a reseller and not wholesale. |
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ajhaji Premium Member join:2002-03-02 Etobicoke, ON |
to ISP_Worker
We're talking about this over in the TekSavvy forum. We seem to be experiencing throttling... » Teksavvy's throttling now? Just a vent, nothing is needed. |
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JayMan26Whoot Premium Member join:2002-06-05 Earth |
JayMan26
Premium Member
2008-Mar-21 12:22 am
No were not experiencing throttling |
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bah 2u
Anon
2008-Mar-21 1:05 am
said by JayMan26:No were not experiencing throttling YOU are not maybe, but a few others definitely seem to be. All apparently throttled to the same rate too. That's a LOT of coincidence for you to proclaim there is no throttle. |
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said by bah 2u :said by JayMan26:No were not experiencing throttling YOU are not maybe, but a few others definitely seem to be. All apparently throttled to the same rate too. That's a LOT of coincidence for you to proclaim there is no throttle. What throttling.... purring along at 621.7 KBps here. |
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2 edits |
to bah 2u
said by bah 2u :said by JayMan26:No were not experiencing throttling YOU are not maybe, but a few others definitely seem to be. All apparently throttled to the same rate too. That's a LOT of coincidence for you to proclaim there is no throttle. I understand you are frustrated because of the issues you are facing, but you don't know for a fact you are being throttled so it's a bit presumptuous on your part to declare it as fact. |
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AngeloThe Network Guy Premium Member join:2002-06-18 |
to bah 2u
said by bah 2u :said by JayMan26:No were not experiencing throttling YOU are not maybe, but a few others definitely seem to be. All apparently throttled to the same rate too. That's a LOT of coincidence for you to proclaim there is no throttle. Jayman is correct we aren't throttled, im getting 300kb on my torrents for my line thats amazing! perhaps some users changed something major who knows what they did... or installed... |
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will see
Anon
2008-Mar-21 7:55 am
i guess these users will know for sure if it happens again at "peak hours" today.
If i'm not mistaken bell removes the throttle at around 2-am. They start it around 4-pm. Don't know if they throttle weekends... maybe a sympatico user can tell us the times and days the throttle happens.
But from what I have read around 4ish-pm p2p will drop to 60kB/s for one hour, then drop to 30kB/s till 2-am.
First time i see so many "savvy" users complain at one time. Could have also been a glitch someone in their area... who knows. Call teksavvy and ask maybe, or use their direct forum? |
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pstewart Premium Member join:2005-10-12 Peterborough, ON |
to OttawaGal
said by OttawaGal :
It would be interesting to hear from Acanac, Velcom, Teksavvy and Electonic Box about this.
Do you only want to hear from these particular ISP's on this? While I do believe that Bell has capabilities in place (which in my opinion is reasonable to HAVE the capabilities for network protection measures etc.) I firmly don't believe they are actually throttling connections. I think sbrook "hit the nail on the head" of how it *could* be effecting 3rd party logins from users who have Sympatico as their primary account. We know for sure that Sympatico is getting throttled. I can also tell you without a doubt that Nexicom customers who are on Bell's wholesale network specifically are NOT throttled AT ALL. We do NOT do throttling, capping or any of that in our network period. Now, I'd be silly to say that some day SOME of this couldn't happen (capping and/or other stuff) but there is definately 100% no plans for any of that today.... all ISP's are faced with massive increases in traffic in the past year - and it's how you deal with that traffic is the key I think personally.... Hope this helps..... |
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KardinalDei Gratina Regina Mod join:2001-02-04 N of 49th |
to sbrook
said by sbrook:As I understand it, they are shaping Sympatico customers and anyone who uses a 3rd party DSL LOGIN account but with a Sympatico connection. In other words, you have Sympatico, but you've used your monthly allowance of 60GB, so you get a $10 login account from a 3rd party which gives you unlimited bandwidth. Sympatico/Nexxia WILL throttle that LOGIN connection. If you have a DSL connection with the 3rd party then you aren't throttled. This would imply the network can see at who the primary account belongs to and would throttle the line no matter what login was used (be it Sympatico or another provider) -- basically, it throttles according to which physical line is being used, not what login is being used. I just can't see that as making sense as traffic shaping would be layer 5 or 6, not layer 1. |
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JGROCKY Premium Member join:2005-05-19 Chatham, ON |
to ISP_Worker
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OttawaGal
Anon
2008-Mar-21 10:12 am
If bell is saying that they are throttling certain area's down to below 30kB/s because they can't cope with the traffic that is sold to you and which is resold to the user. Then a complaint for a cost reduction needs to be put in with Bell since they are admitting they can't provide the service that teksavvy is paying them for, and in turn that cost reduction should also be passed on to the users who are paying for below 30kB/s internet. Don't know if thats possible, or if i made sense, or how they work.
But what I'm saying is, why should Harry in Montreal pay 40$ for 5-meg internet and Dick in Toronto pay 40$ for the same service at dial up speed? Why should Teksavvy have to pay full rate as well when bell admitted they can't supply you?
Will this throttle soon spread out to other area's or is there only a predefined area at the moment? What area's?
Is it perm? Estimated length of time?
Are all the other wholesellers affected as well or only Teksavvy?
Should users believe bells side of it, or should they believe this is another strong-arm tactic by bell similar to when they tried to strong-arm you into removing the login access?
Many questions come to mind...
Good luck with your meeting next week! |
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sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa |
sbrook
Mod
2008-Mar-21 10:49 am
The "leak" mill is definitely busy. As I understand it in one rumour, Bell is throttling 3rd parties in areas where they have the equipment to do so, and intend to extend that to all areas.
I don't see what legal right they have to do this and I hope somebody will raise this to the Department of Industry Anti-Competition bureau. |
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for sure
Anon
2008-Mar-21 11:43 am
said by sbrook:The "leak" mill is definitely busy. As I understand it in one rumour, Bell is throttling 3rd parties in areas where they have the equipment to do so, and intend to extend that to all areas. I don't see what legal right they have to do this and I hope somebody will raise this to the Department of Industry Anti-Competition bureau. FOR SURE! If this is true, I see price fixing, competition fixing, collusion, cartels, raketeering and so forth. I would be banging on the industry ministers and the CRTC's door fast. |
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2 edits |
to Kardinal
said by Kardinal This would imply the network can see at who the primary account belongs to and would throttle the line no matter what login was used (be it Sympatico or another provider) -- basically, it throttles according to which physical line is being used, not what login is being used. I just can't see that as making sense as traffic shaping would be layer 5 or 6, not layer 1. That is what DPI boxes do... They can throttle using the upper protocol layers and I think that the ones they use for BS can also see the TSI and other traffic. Anyway I guess we find out soon. » arstechnica.com/articles ··· lity.ars |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to ISP_Worker
said by ISP_Worker :
I work for an ISP, and I deal with Sympatico/Bell everyday, dealing with tickets and troubles...
Just got off the phone, started with a Nexxia rep telling me that bandwidth is being shapped/slowed down for Sympatico AND DSL Resellers in regards to P2P traffic... I asked for confirmation, she placed me on hold, and came back saying that yes, this is true. Then I asked for a manager... she said she couldn't transfer me, but gave me a name and number to call, talked to that person, and she wouldn't come right out to say yes this is all true, but is not denying it, and tried to explain the impact P2P traffic has on all customers, whether they are on resellers or not...
I can't confirm that any of this is true... 1 person said it is, the 2nd higher up didn't denie it and tried hard to explain why something like this would be done if it were...
I looked around a few forums here to see if anything close to this had been reported... but I see nothing... I have also heard this is true, from back channel conversation. |
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DKS |
to ISP_Worker
Here is what Rocky of TSI is saying in the thread referenced by him above. quote: After some discussions with Bell, while doing upgrades to zones that are under capacity, it looks like they've now started to implement at type of load balance system of sorts... I don't think it's a throttle, but it does seem they're spreading the pain from the looks of it right now.
We're hoping to get more details after the holiday weekend to see what the official plans are from them.
As a side note, we have no plans to throttle anything, so if anyone is experiencing anything remotely related to this, it would be before it hits our side... This looks like a load to upgrade planning issue right now with the Bell side of things....
We would have loved to have given a faster response on this one, but it's still not clear exactly what's going on or where to ask questions as of yet.
More to come shortly on this matter.
Rocky
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Canaca Premium Member join:2007-03-05 Mississauga, ON 1 edit |
Canaca
Premium Member
2008-Mar-21 12:25 pm
Although we have not yet had any complaints on our end about throttling, Acanac has noticed profiles being lowered when they could support higher speeds. This is happening more and more. This in it's self is a type of throttling.
Best Regards, Paul www.acanac.ca |
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itsa shame
Anon
2008-Mar-21 12:33 pm
said by Canaca:Acanac has noticed profiles being lowered when they could support higher speeds. Something needs to be done and this is probably one of the times where all you wholesellers need to pool your resources and fight back before you really get stepped on more. |
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OttawaGal to sbrook
Anon
2008-Mar-21 12:57 pm
to sbrook
Now, with the news that Rogers is applying the same 60-gig throttled limits as Sympatico, and with dissemination of a leaked Sympatico document announcing further changes to its bandwidth policies, shes wondering if theres more to the situation than meets the eye, with the phrase price fixing front and center. Full rumor story at: » www.p2pnet.net/story/15361Let the rumours fly. This should also probably be front page news on dslr. Should follow this up with as many wholesalers as possible to get their side of whats happening. hmmmmm Anyone game for an interview? |
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Jay_P join:2005-12-12 Montreal, QC |
to ISP_Worker
I think ElectronicBox's cable service here in Quebec looks more and more tempting... I hope Videotron is not planning on following Nexxia in their foot steps.
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