Topic 'Re: Did you really expect better?' in forum 'Verizon FiOS TV' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20385442 en Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:09:54 EDT Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:09:54 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20418520 said by matcarl:

said by xgman1 :

They raise the prices and deliver no new channels.
Not true. They gave us two new stations today. Tejano & Acoustic Chill on the URGE Music stations ;)
Acoustic Chill has arrived? I have been waiting so so long for this channel. Almost as long as I waited for Touch Tone service to arrive after it was rolled out at the World's Fair. :p :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20418520 Thu, 01 May 2008 21:37:24 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20416888 said by xgman1 :

They raise the prices and deliver no new channels.
Not true. They gave us two new stations today. Tejano & Acoustic Chill on the URGE Music stations ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20416888 Thu, 01 May 2008 14:47:59 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20416880 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20416880 Thu, 01 May 2008 14:45:38 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20395530 said by kyler13:

...He called up awhile back about why he wasn't seeing the expanded offerings and they told him he'd have to upgrade all his equipment to get the additional HD's...at his cost. At what point did they switch to a lease-only system?
D* is moving to MPEG4 for their new HDTV (and other, I think) transmissions. They had to keep the older, original HDTV offerings in MPEG2 because of ppl (like me) who owned their own, older DTV receivers that had only MPEG2 HDTV capability.

The newly added HD channels, coming off their new satellites (requiring a larger, 5 LNB dish) are encoded in MPEG4 (uses less bandwidth than MPEG2) and require the use of their new receivers. Those upgrade costs were part of the reason I switched to FiOS. I personally never had any problems with D*'s product or their customer service. As a matter of fact, canceling was a 2 minute affair with no hassles (at least not yet) but I was not under any agreement.

They went into receiver lease mode only a couple years ago. I actually think it's a lease/buy scheme that makes the receivers and dish yours AFTER completing a two year contract (not totally sure about this though). BUT, they have more control over what the boxes can or can't receive than they did with the older equipment.

For instance, they can turn the newer receiver's ATSC OTA tuner on or off based on whether you purchased their HD package. If you don't buy their HD, you don't get it over the air either. My older RCA DTC-100 was independent in that respect.
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Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20395530 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:21:55 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394582 said by aaronwt:

DirecTV only leases their boxes now. You pay an upfront fee for the box but DirecTV still owns it.
I've read that more than once on here, but it contrasts what a guy at work told me. He signed up a few years ago and was only getting what equated to just the MPEG2 HD's. He called up awhile back about why he wasn't seeing the expanded offerings and they told him he'd have to upgrade all his equipment to get the additional HD's...at his cost. At what point did they switch to a lease-only system?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394582 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:57:39 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394575 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394575 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:55:52 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394544 said by afiggatt:

said by harley3k3:

DirecTV had the same problem of swapping out boxes, with the added problem of installing dishes. And their subscriber base is 15x larger than Verizon's ( I believe Verizon just hit 1 million last year ).
Someone can correct me if I am wrong as I am not an expert on DirecTV costs & packages, but don't the customer have to buy the mpeg-4 boxes and pay extra for the additional HD channels? I know DirecTV ha two year lock-in contract deals. They have passed on a big chunk of the equipment upgrade costs directly to the customers. In comparison, Verizon follows the cable TV model where the customer pays a straight monthly fee and many of the subscribers expect service calls to replace or swap out boxes. Also many cable/Fios subscribers are not as used to the idea of hey the STB/DVR is 3 years old, time to replace all of them with a new model.
DirecTV only leases their boxes now. You pay an upfront fee for the box but DirecTV still owns it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394544 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:47:04 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394529 said by harley3k3:

DirecTV had the same problem of swapping out boxes, with the added problem of installing dishes. And their subscriber base is 15x larger than Verizon's ( I believe Verizon just hit 1 million last year ). Someone can correct me if I am wrong as I am not an expert on DirecTV costs & packages, but don't the customer have to buy the mpeg-4 boxes and pay extra for the additional HD channels? I know DirecTV ha two year lock-in contract deals. They have passed on a big chunk of the equipment upgrade costs directly to the customers. In comparison, Verizon follows the cable TV model where the customer pays a straight monthly fee and many of the subscribers expect service calls to replace or swap out boxes. Also many cable/Fios subscribers are not as used to the idea of hey the STB/DVR is 3 years old, time to replace all of them with a new model. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394529 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:42:10 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394333 dedicated to each house, they'll be able to run circles around the others. This probably validates the switch to IPTV since delivering two streams to each house (think dual tuner boxes) would be "no sweat". Much better than cable's SDV concept, IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20394333 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:31:27 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20393774
We left Comcast last August, in part because of their erratic boxes, time display, guide, VOD and PQ.

Well, we didn't have an HD set then and never had a DVR before (most people still have neither). But, FIOS came to town with a larger channel lineup, better PQ and a lower price. Plus, we now have a HD DVR.

Despite the few customer service problems we had, FIOS is better than what we had before. Mark F. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20393774 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:00:43 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20391783 said by afiggatt:

Of course, if Verizon were to switch to mpeg-4 for some of the QAM channels, they could fit still more HD channels that way. But they would have to swap out all the current generation STB and DVRs to do that.
DirecTV had the same problem of swapping out boxes, with the added problem of installing dishes. And their subscriber base is 15x larger than Verizon's ( I believe Verizon just hit 1 million last year ).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20391783 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:29:33 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20390352 --
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20390352 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:25:36 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20389646 said by MacLeech:

I'm just curious what Verizon is going to do after they hit the 860 Mhz bandwidth limit they have with their cable gear. Swapping analog channels for digital only gets you so far, especially if you're pushing more HD. The basic issue is that Verizon made a huge miscalculation in how many QAM channels they would need to build out to support all the RSNs & sport packages and how many HD channels would be in existence by 2007. They obviously got caught by surprise by the DirecTV announcements of numerous HD sign-ups back in the beginning of 2007. Fifteen months later with only 5 national HD channels added in 2007, Verizon has fallen well behind in of national HD channels compared not only to DirecTV, but Dish & many cable franchises.

If Verizon had installed 10 more QAM channels from the start, they would still be behind but 35 to 40 national and premium HD channels - if they added the right HD channels - would keep most of the HD subscribers happy for now.

As for the 860 MHz bandwidth limit, that is 135 QAM channels. Where I am Verizon is only using 56 QAM channels. Other markets with 2 set of HD locals from 2 cities and more HD RSNs are probably using close to the 63 QAM channels that was the max number built out. So with 72 QAM channels to be added, Verizon is not using even 1/2 of the digital bandwidth available. Verizon does not have that many SD channels they will need to add.

The stated plan was to go to IP TV. But the DCT 700s that Verizon is now handing out do not support IP. We do know that the current Motorola STBs and DVRs do not support Mpeg-4. Will they be able to support a full live IP TV system? Given their sluggish response for HD VOD? I doubt it. So before Verizon can field a IP TV only system, they will have to replace boxes for millions of customers. They will have the same problem the cable companies do: a lot of deployed boxes that will take considerable time & money to swap out.

I suspect that by deciding to add hardware for all 135 QAM channels, Verizon decided that the conversion to all IP TV will be delayed for a few years. The plan may be to use QAM for the locals and the most watched HD channels and use IP TV for the niche & more specialized live channels. Of course, if Verizon were to switch to mpeg-4 for some of the QAM channels, they could fit still more HD channels that way. But they would have to swap out all the current generation STB and DVRs to do that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20389646 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:24:57 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388490 said by amarryat:

When the FIOS tech installed here, he was telling me that they are only using 1 spectrum of light, and they have a bunch of others available. I may not have restated what he said exactly, but that was the gist.
That would require new ONT designs with multiple recievers and some sort of way for the ONT to switch between them on command from the box...

Besides the ONT already uses 3 different wavelengths of light, so the tech wasn't exactly right...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388490 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:49:09 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388478 said by MacLeech:

said by Vz Fo Rizzy :

said by MacLeech:

Basically, how does Verizon plan to expand channel count once they fill up their 860 Mhz video bandwidth?
MoCA. They'll have all the bandwidth in the 975 to 1475MHz range.
That is only between the ActionTek router and the boxes, not from Verizon's office to the router though. So that won't work...
When the FIOS tech installed here, he was telling me that they are only using 1 spectrum of light, and they have a bunch of others available. I may not have restated what he said exactly, but that was the gist.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388478 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:45:59 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388448 said by Vz Fo Rizzy :

said by MacLeech:

Basically, how does Verizon plan to expand channel count once they fill up their 860 Mhz video bandwidth?
MoCA. They'll have all the bandwidth in the 975 to 1475MHz range.
That is only between the ActionTek router and the boxes, not from Verizon's office to the router though. So that won't work...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388448 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:38:40 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388133 said by MacLeech:

Basically, how does Verizon plan to expand channel count once they fill up their 860 Mhz video bandwidth?
MoCA. They'll have all the bandwidth in the 975 to 1475MHz range. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20388133 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:29:24 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387979 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387979 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:03:12 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387885 said by matcarl:

You already mentioned it: IPTV, they've said they want to convert to it eventually.
But where are they going to pull the bandwidth needed for IPTV from? data or video?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387885 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:48:41 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387776 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387776 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:25:53 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387762
Cable is going to SDV to get around that. Is Verizon planning on rolling out SDV? (Using a data channel to communicate MPEG stream change requests back to the headend)

I've seen some FIOS users complain that a HDVOD stream pushed over the data bandwidth at 18 Mbps already causes a hit on their internet speeds. Does Verizon plan on rolling out IPTV and increasing this video over data use?

Basically, how does Verizon plan to expand channel count once they fill up their 860 Mhz video bandwidth?
--
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387762 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:21:30 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387578 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20387578 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:52:38 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20386105 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20386105 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:47:57 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20385945 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20385945 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:25:24 EDT Re: Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20385637
Yeah, VZ F'd up big time - I think they realized that - and are now crawling along to correct it.

As with any company - as FMR VZMan stated - there was a battle between management - most of us know how that goes. It turns a 10 minute decision into a 10 month one.

How they didn't have all this bandwidth available from the beginning is beyond me - but hey, i'm not a TV customer anymore.
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Did-you-really-expect-better-20385637 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:41:53 EDT Did you really expect better? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Did-you-really-expect-better-20385442
Bottom line is I know I can get more HD from cable, I can get HD VOD from cable (none free IIRC) but I still won't switch back just yet. Your thoughts?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Did-you-really-expect-better-20385442 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:11:05 EDT