Topic 'Re: "But you're not HERE!"' in forum 'No, I Will Not Fix Your #@$!! Computer'

Topic 'Re: "But you're not HERE!"' in forum 'No, I Will Not Fix Your #@$!! Computer' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21916745 en Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:18:13 EDT Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:18:13 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-22023581
I have family/friends who are good at say, fixing my car when it breaks, or patching up a hole in my roof that I don't want to touch, or [insert skill here].

When my family/friends come to me for help, I do what I CAN as long as they understand that it cannot affect my job or my family. I make it clear that them asking me to help them with their computer while I am working is like me coming to their job and asking them to change my oil. If they need it NOW, then they will have to take it to someone they will have to pay if I am not available.

My grandparents, God bless them, are pushing 90 years old and have 4 computers between the two of them. Whenever I go over and visit it is practically a routine: Fire up their boxes, apply the windows updates they NEVER do. Update the AV which is never done because they never leave their computer on except when they use it (why do old people do that?). Then I answer any questions they might have in the queue. This I do for the people I care about.

Now if any of them get rude about it, well, they are family but will still get the "Go f*ck yourself" from me.

I always help my friends with their PC issues. I know that chances are, I will be able to ask them for a favor.

I will give an example, when we moved to a new house, I had about 20 people show up and help us move the stuff in. A 26 foot moving truck packed tight was unloaded in about 2 hours. Did they bitch that I needed their help? No. Why? Because I have always taken the time to help them in the past.

As for CLIENTS though, charge them for everything they ask for. These people are trying to get something for nothing and they are TAKING from you.
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Custom PHP/Perl Development. Vbulletin And Wordpress Mods Too!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-22023581 Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:27:30 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-22023503 said by wilbilt:

For many of the reasons listed above, I do not do side jobs any more.

After getting screwed again and again, I decided it just wasn't worth the headaches.

I have people ask me nearly every day if I will work on their personal machines. I always decline as politely as possible, but many of them won't accept my answer and continue to badger me. I then become less polite, which has caused me to be labeled as a jerk (or worse) by some.

Maybe I should tell them "Sure, I'll look at it. my time costs $100/hour, with a 2-hour minimum. Billing starts right now."
I second that!! I got a call the other day from a former co-worker where his machine crashed. He asked if I do work on the side. I told him that I don't due to my schedule.

I have had people say "you could just take it home and work on it." Uhm, no. I have a wife and a daughter who both need my time after work. I politely decline and keep on moving.
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Satan is always busy. He makes bad things look good and good things look bad! Watch that Devil. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-22023503 Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:04:58 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21946550
After getting screwed again and again, I decided it just wasn't worth the headaches.

I have people ask me nearly every day if I will work on their personal machines. I always decline as politely as possible, but many of them won't accept my answer and continue to badger me. I then become less polite, which has caused me to be labeled as a jerk (or worse) by some.

Maybe I should tell them "Sure, I'll look at it. my time costs $100/hour, with a 2-hour minimum. Billing starts right now."
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We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21946550 Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:11:58 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21941692 said by Rob:

said by wapu:

For the longest time, the worst was my wife offering my services to fix her friends and our families computers. She had a customer at the store she managed who she offered to have me come over and fix his computer. I did it and then he was relentless in calling me or asking her to ask me for every little thing related to his computer for months. He even tried claiming I did something that caused the space bar to come off his keyboard a month after I was there. Of course, it was "Never the same" after I was there. Once she saw how it sometimes gets, she has stopped offering.

This is probably the same guy! Yesterday I wasn't available to take any calls for personal reasons, and he left me 4 voice messages. The first was one because he wants to buy Quicken and has some questions. The 3 other are follow ups to the first one!
I have wound up helping a bunch of people around the area, all started as family, then friends, friends of friends, friends of family, neighbors, etc. Very similar stuff to what you do, nothing more complicated than that.

A woman I've helped for the better part of 7 years calls me from time to time, like the guy you're speaking of. It drives me nuts. She's one of these people that are too "connected" when they shouldn't be; multiple PCs at home, wants wireless everything regardless if I recommend it or not, has a blackberry tied into everything. When she asks a question, and I respond as susinctly as I can giving her my best answer in one shot, usually hoping I won't get a reply, I get about 25 emails from her the rest of the day explaining everything she did based on my suggestion. I'll get one e-mail that says "nope, what you said didnt work" and then 2 mins later another email will come saying "never mind, I got it, read your email wrong." This continues for the better part of a day, until I respond "well, looks like you're having some trouble, so I charge..."

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"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin

[my ramblings]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21941692 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:28:00 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21941542 said by Weasel:

said by wapu:

For the longest time, the worst was my wife offering my services to fix her friends and our families computers.

Ugh, my wife does the same thing. Drives me nuts.
My wife doesn't do this and I am appreciative for it. My wife is a pharmacist and enjoys giving advice when she can. She knows that she wouldn't want to go over to someone else's house and work on her own time which is why she doesn't do the same to me.

So I provide advice when I am asked, but when it comes to working after hours, its $50 an hour unless its my parents or her parents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21941542 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:05:03 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21940777 said by wapu:

For the longest time, the worst was my wife offering my services to fix her friends and our families computers. She had a customer at the store she managed who she offered to have me come over and fix his computer. I did it and then he was relentless in calling me or asking her to ask me for every little thing related to his computer for months. He even tried claiming I did something that caused the space bar to come off his keyboard a month after I was there. Of course, it was "Never the same" after I was there. Once she saw how it sometimes gets, she has stopped offering.
This is probably the same guy! Yesterday I wasn't available to take any calls for personal reasons, and he left me 4 voice messages. The first was one because he wants to buy Quicken and has some questions. The 3 other are follow ups to the first one!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21940777 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:19:46 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21940659 said by wapu:

For the longest time, the worst was my wife offering my services to fix her friends and our families computers.
Ugh, my wife does the same thing. Drives me nuts.
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How lucky am I to have known someone who is so hard to say good-bye to.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21940659 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:41:19 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21939998
What I started doing with co-workers, friends and family was to trade a dinner for the computerwork. I would come over and set up a new machine, move files, clean things up, whatever and they could either take me and my wife to their favorite restaurant or fix us their favorite meal. Sometimes we would do it all in the same day, other times it would be me fixing the computer one day and then dinner the next day. I would always make sure the dinner plans were in place before doing the work. I know I couldn't use this system to live off of or pay the rent, but it did help save money as we would get a couple nights a month out with friends away from the kids without spending any money. 2 hours setting up a new machine is a fair trade for 2 prime porterhouses at the Metropolitan Grill in Seattle.
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"The Habeas Corpus secures every man here, alien or citizen,
against everything which is not law, whatever shape it may
assume." --Thomas Jefferson to A. H. Rowan, 1798.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21939998 Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:52:44 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21939204 My answer to "But you're not HERE!"
I know but you are not paying me for being there you are paying me for what I know.
What I learned on courses I paid for, for the years I spent at college working 3 part time jobs to get to my level of knowledge and for my 20 years of experience.
So for $?? an hour your getting a lot more than be being there ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21939204 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:21:33 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21934251 --
"If it ain't broke don't fix it."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21934251 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:04:23 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21933202 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21933202 Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:43:10 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21926310 said by jester121:

Ugh... side jobs are the bane of my existence. It starts out trying to be a nice guy and helping a clueless user with a quick fix, and you end up owning the problems forever.
And that is why I avoid doing them anymore. I don't charge anything for helping out friends. Still, it can be a hassle when they call and expect you to know exactly what's wrong and how to fix it...and that you can do both immediately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21926310 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:09:21 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21925628
I guess it's the same as doctors or lawyers getting pestered at social gatherings by people seeking free professional advice. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21925628 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:01:54 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924824
I agree with organizing your services and posting your rates. Simple fixes like screen resolution are the kind of things people remember and will call you back for bigger, payable services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924824 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:44:35 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924299 said by osumba2001:

As a comparison since I do the same thing, what ARE your various rates?
I have to add "phone support"
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CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | ReverseIP.us]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924299 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:01:29 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924266 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21924266 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:53:20 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21923701
The moment you lay out the costs like that is when your customers will be much more aware. Then, you won't get the statements like, "But you're not here!" when they call you and keep you on the phone for 15 minutes.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21923701 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:27:53 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21922582 --
“The time has come to put away childish things.”
FM5280]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21922582 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:23:28 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21922575 --
The one, the only, the Insder. :: Fighting phishing for life.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21922575 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:21:49 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21921540 --
I gave up drinking and eating bad food. And in 14 days, I had lost 2 weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21921540 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:00:23 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21921284
You need to make your price list public, to everyone, and include a minimum time or cost for any interaction with any customer.

It may seem harsh, but the way I explain it is "if I'm doing it, I'm billing for it" - customers will understand this and realize you are a professional. This, in turn, will also stop the asking for help over every little thing, this is how even the best of IT people get overwhelmed and start to hate it. I've found "by appointment" is the best way to get people to compile all the questions they have and then work with them for an alloted time rather than all over the place.

Those who are disgruntled or have trouble with this concept, that's fine - your priority and full attention is best served to other paying customers who play by the rules. If you continue to bargain or leave any open leeway for billable vs. not-billable you will be in this guilt-trip trap forever and before long not have the time to focus. Make things easy on yourself by publishing a price list and refer customers to it calmly but often.

For example: charge one rate per remote hour (this means phone, remote assistance, screen sharing, whatever) and a higher rate per on-site hour (meaning physically going to the customer's premises) optionally a 3rd rate for lab work (they bring it to you)

Define upfront/clearly when billing starts/stops - for example on-site: "billing starts when I get on customer premises (this way customer doesn't chew up valuable time unlocking gate, putting away dog, chasing away children, making small talk about the weather, whatever, they'll realize it's directly up to them how much money they want to spend or waste.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21921284 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:43:15 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920879 said by DC DSL:

said by Rob:

I give everyone price lists of my services. What I don't have on there is "phone assistance", although I do have remote assistance.

You may want to rethink making your price list so public. However, you need to make it clear that phone is premium and is not free. Make it clear what will incur a charge. If someone doesn't like it, you're probably better off without them as a customer.
I meant I give my price list of my services to people who I do computer repair for, so for future reference they know what the charges are.

I need to add phone assistance on my price list.

I think that's what bothers me most. This client has my price list of what I charge. It's almost like he thought he could fool me and get me to help him over the phone.

For simple one line questions or emails, I have no problem helping for free. But I'm not walking someone over the phone how to install a wireless network. Plus, I can usually do it faster than I can explain it to them. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920879 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:01:05 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920875 said by Rob:

I give everyone price lists of my services. What I don't have on there is "phone assistance", although I do have remote assistance.

You may want to rethink making your price list so public. However, you need to make it clear that phone is premium and is not free. Make it clear what will incur a charge. If someone doesn't like it, you're probably better off without them as a customer.
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920875 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:59:44 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920846 said by DC DSL:

What you need to do is organize the services you provide, and the types of requests you get into categories. Once you have done that, assign prices to everything. Clearly identify things you will do without charge, and specific circumstances for it being a freebie or waived. For instance, you might not want to charge a good customer for a few minutes to help them decide whether an upgrade is right for them...however, someone who regularly calls to pick your brains and doesn't buy from you would be told they need to either come in or pay for a consultation.

Snoop around your market and find out what your competition is doing and position yourself comparably, but higher whenever possible if you can demonstrate superior quality/service for something.

You can't be afraid of telling even good customers that they have to pay for something, or that you're raising the cost of something.

And, for anyone grousing that you're not physically at their home or office doing something for them, point out that if they pay an attorney or accountant, it's not likely they are going to come out to their location to do it for them, either.
I give everyone price lists of my services. What I don't have on there is "phone assistance", although I do have remote assistance. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920846 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:53:00 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920814
Snoop around your market and find out what your competition is doing and position yourself comparably, but higher whenever possible if you can demonstrate superior quality/service for something.

You can't be afraid of telling even good customers that they have to pay for something, or that you're raising the cost of something.

And, for anyone grousing that you're not physically at their home or office doing something for them, point out that if they pay an attorney or accountant, it's not likely they are going to come out to their location to do it for them, either.
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920814 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:42:19 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920724 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21920724 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:19:08 EDT Re: "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21918937
Our sales are off (cheapest PC we offer is $449) but repairs have tripled. People are willing to drop nearly the cost of a new machine to fix their old one. Such is the life of a "mom & pop" computer shop.

The typical repair is a 2 gHz P4/Athlon Dell or HP with a failing hard drive, loaded with malware. Invariably they'll want a new HD, virus removal, plus all the SDRAM it'll hold.

Like you said, we also don't mind giving quick advice over the phone but anything in depth will require a service call and billable hours.
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John M - Cranky network guy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-But-youre-not-HERE-21918937 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:17:02 EDT "But you're not HERE!" http://www.dslreports.com/forum/But-youre-not-HERE-21916745
In the last couple of months, I've seen my demand for computer repair increase sharply due to the economy. With a bad economy, consumers are looking to repair existing computers than go out and spending as little as $300 dollars at Best Buy for a new computer.

All my business is word of mouth, and I've even had to tell some new customers I couldn't help them because I just didn't have time.

What I am, however, finding is a lot of customers who I've fixed their computers/network/etc are calling me for other computer problems, but problems that I can walk them through it. The first time they call and ask a question, like "How do I make my screen resolution bigger?", I walk them through it.

But I've finding that these same customers are now calling me for bigger tasks, such as just now one of them called me because he bought a new router and was having a hard time setting it up. So I told him that I could come over and for $65, set it all up for him. He said that he could do it, but just had a few questions. I told him then I'd have to bill him for my time to answer those questions, and his response was "But you're NOT HERE! How can you charge me?!"

Apparently my time is only billable when I'm physically doing something. :uhh:
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CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | ReverseIP.us]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/But-youre-not-HERE-21916745 Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:25:49 EDT