Topic 'Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string.' in forum ''

Topic 'Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string.' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22520430 en Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:49:12 EDT Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:49:12 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22564817 said by David:

Well true I proved your point but you also proved mine. Had this been a M$ phone everyone would have just "accepted" it. Why is it apple gets all the attention when they screw their own customers? Yet everyone expects it of microsoft?

I don't get it.
No, as with anything Microsoft, had this been a Microsoft phone everyone would have complained. It doesn't matter what Microsoft does, someone will complain about it. Microsoft could cure cancer and someone would complain about it.

Some people can't even abbreviate Microsoft to MS without using a $. Not really sure why that is. I don't see folks using Ci$co or O$X. Both Cisco and Apple both are for profit companies. They all charge for software upgrades... maybe it's just not cool.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22564817 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:27:47 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22563100 said by Uncle Paul:

said by David:

said by Uncle Paul:

Bull I've yet to see anything that Microsoft does... or doesn't do that won't bring people to the table to complain.

You need to talk to my sister about "Windows Vista" then.

I am sure she would be more than happy to visit your table and complain plenty.

Thank you for proving my point.
Well true I proved your point but you also proved mine. Had this been a M$ phone everyone would have just "accepted" it. Why is it apple gets all the attention when they screw their own customers? Yet everyone expects it of microsoft?

I don't get it.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22563100 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:15 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22538829
Imagine if you will for a second if the iPhone was available on multiple networks, youd probably have a heart attack at the numbers. The biggest down fall in my opinion for the iPhone is ATT, they have been fine for me but many people do not like ATT and wont get the phone based on that alone. I bet if the iPhone was available on multiple networks there would be no 10 phones sales added together that could touch the iPhone.

I am not speaking of free phones, im speaking of phones like the PPC 6700 that I paid 500 bucks for, I dont buy cheap phones. I dont know the models of the others ive slept many times since then. But I didn't like them that much.

I didn't say the iPhone had no complaints either. I think you have a issue with context. I said I personally know nobody that doesn't love their iPhone. I can tell you about many of my friends though with phones like The Storm, Razor, Samsung, Windows Mobile Phones, and others that all flat out hate their phones. But are locked in contracts and stuck with them now. Almost all of them say they will be on a iPhone when they end the contact.

If you have a different experience great, googling for people that hate a product really doesn't do anything for me or this argument. You can find all sorts of things on the net.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22538829 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:45:53 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22537756 said by Ctrl Alt Del:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Since we are picking off details - Microsoft doesn't care what platform you use their software on (read the attached license, nothing that says it can't be used on a Mac). Why don't you think they are throwing a fit for using Windows on a Mac?

That wasn't my point. You mentioned using the Visual Studio command line tools in Linux using Wine. THAT is what I was referring to. Microsoft doesn't care if you use Windows running on hardware X (such as Windows on a Mac). Microsoft does care if you use Wine on hardware X. Microsoft in the past has specifically looked for Wine and disabled software updates for components. Therefore, you suggesting that using the VS tools in Wine is not an alternative.
Why do we live in the past?
Wikipedia, does indeed, verify your claims. But, just because you can't update VS, does this really mean that you can't use VS? Yes, you won't be working with the latest and greatest version but it should still in theory run. Microsoft has NOT purposely disabled main functionality of the software because it runs in Wine, just the update feature. In any case, according to the Wikipedia article:

quote:
In the case of Internet Explorer 7 and Windows Media Player, Microsoft has since removed the WGA requirements.

So it seems maybe Microsoft is having a change of heart perhaps? In any case, Microsoft is not as aggressive as Apple seems to be. Many argue that "Apple needs to protect its copyrights", but doesn't Microsoft also? I am sure we both can agree that the 2 big projects Wine and ReactOS could probably be shutdown in a heartbeat. All Microsoft has to do is tie them up in court long enough to drain their funds. But, they don't. Is Microsoft waiting for either to release a fully functional version and then sue just to laugh in their face? Who knows. What I do know is that Microsoft is a lot more open about their company and copyrights than Apple.

said by Ctrl Alt Del:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

But yet Apple throws a fit when you install Mac and/or Mac software on a PC. Think about that, and you will realize why I am a Microsoft supporter vs Apple. No one should tell you what you can and can't do with your device, those who try will lose my respect.

Microsoft, just like Apple, is leasing their operating system and software to you. You are specifically forbidden to reverse engineer, it among other things. In fact, you can't make commercial software with your student copy of Visual Studio, so any application you make for WinMo can only be used by you. You might as well not support Microsoft either because Microsoft limits you too. Double standards much?

That was just supposed to serve as an example to my point. Sure, it does say you can't use it for commercial purposes but I will have to dig out the MSDN license that many universities will offer it's students. I'm sure the verbage is different due to the fact that you (at least me) have to pay for. Let me get back to you on that one.
But, on the other side of the fence they do provide the express editions for free (which yes we know can't be used to make mobile applications) BUT a certain FAQ item reveals some interesting information:

said by »www.microsoft.com/expres ··· ort/faq/ :
# Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?

Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using Visual Studio Express Editions.

All this talk of development made me wonder. Upon wondering I came across this project: »cegcc.sourceforge.net/do ··· ing.html
You don't even NEED VS to build Windows Mobile Apps. And ceGCC project is still active because their latest version was posted May 7th of this year. With that said, can you code outside of XCode to make iPhone apps?

To conclude, I am sure if a project like ReactOS for Mac OS surfaced, Apple would bring them down faster than you can blink. And considering how close ReactOS is to actually creating a full fledged NT based OS - I am sure that Microsoft would want them gone...but they are still around.

For those curious minds I did some more thinking about programming on the iPhone and it seems you can use inline Assembly: »stackoverflow.com/questi ··· e-iphone which I think is a thumbs up in my book (you also do it on Windows Mobile devices... :) ).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22537756 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:52:56 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22536190 said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Since we are picking off details - Microsoft doesn't care what platform you use their software on (read the attached license, nothing that says it can't be used on a Mac). Why don't you think they are throwing a fit for using Windows on a Mac?That wasn't my point. You mentioned using the Visual Studio command line tools in Linux using Wine. THAT is what I was referring to. Microsoft doesn't care if you use Windows running on hardware X (such as Windows on a Mac). Microsoft does care if you use Wine on hardware X. Microsoft in the past has specifically looked for Wine and disabled software updates for components. Therefore, you suggesting that using the VS tools in Wine is not an alternative.

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

And I thought Apple wanted to make jailbreaking the iPhone illegal? You don't see Microsoft going after people who are trying to "break" Windows Mobile to get Android to run on Windows Mobile devices.

Which I think is crap, but there's no official word from Apple that I can find.

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

P.S. That license is for Dreamspark software, but still it doesn't say anything about how I can't develop on Linux or Mac.

Probably because Microsoft specifically lists a computer running Windows as a hardware requirement, and Wine is not an officially supported alternative.
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less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22536190 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:54:18 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22535285 said by Chillin:

I have a open mind. I have had Sonys/Nokias/Samsungs/Audiovox PPC 6700/and many others. So what can you say now? I used all of them, they do ok. They are NOT an iPhone. I am not loyal to the iPhone. I will buy the phone I feel does what i want it to do BEST. So far ive seen nothing that touches it. You are welcome to have a differening opinion but your opinion on what I should want out of a phone means squat.Seems fair to me.

I dont buy a phone for its camera, I could care less what the quality of the camera is. I have a nice point and shoot sony and a Canon 40d. I would never use a phone to take an image I cared about so it is a non issue for me. If it is for you thats great, stop trying to make it one for others. Its CLEARLY not one based on the iPhones sales.

Good for you. As for it being important for others, that doesn't seem to be the case. Camera Phone sales lead the market in phone sales AND in Camera sales.
»www.digitalcamerareview. ··· sID=3612

If the iPhone didn't have a camera at all, do you think it would sell as well?

Moreover, if you go to *any* of the 4 national network websites, they don't sell a single smartphone without a camera. If there's not much demand for camera phones, as you assert, then why do manufacturers waste extremely precious space on such a low-demand feature?

My low expectations about phones were actually set with the many other brands I tried before the iPhone. It wasn't hard for the iPhone to win me over based on the poor quality of phones out there.

I can mostly agree with that. That said, I don't know which Sonys and Nokias you used. Of course a free phone from one of those makers shouldn't be as good as a $200 iphone's.

As if Sony and other companies are not after the same thing Apple is. Just because Apple is better at it doesn't make any of those companies more/less evil than Apple. I hope you dont kid yourself with that crap.

I didn't say anything about evil. In fact, I applauded Apple for their marketing skills.

You actually think you could change anyones mind here? Everyone here had a phone before the iPhone, and they must have not been happy with it because they moved on. I have never met a person with a iPhone that didn't love it. Additionally many people here are power users and probably have had smart phones, pdas, and all sorts of phones. If these people have moved to the iPhone they probably did it for good reason.

Everyone here probably had a phone before the Razr, too. The v3 Razr sold extremely well. Does that make the Razr one of the best phones ever? Sells don't reflect quality or usefulness. Sells reflect popularity, and one of the best ways to increase popularity is through marketing.

As for no complaints about iPhones - check out all of the people begging for new Android phones and the Pre. Check out the Engadget comments sections on the iphone 3gs stories. That place is usually bursting with apple love, but they have certainly turned on Apple.

EDIT: You know what - i found this on DIGG
»www.cio.com/article/4945 ··· rnatives

--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22535285 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:37:29 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22533512 said by Ctrl Alt Del:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

At times I do forget things, I must have missed it in the post tracker thing on DSLR, but making personal attacks does not help your argument.

I apologize if I've insulted you. I was just surprised that it seemed as if you had completely forgotten the last discussion we had. BBR sometimes doesn't notify me of new posts in News threads, so maybe it has memory loss.

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Sorry, I was under the impression you could indeed write WM apps using the express editions. It wasn't any concern for me because since I am attending college I get all their software for free (legally). You are right on that matter and I can't find anything that says otherwise.
However, your first comparison is a little unopen minded. You don't NEED Windows to compile MSVS applications. Since VS IDE is just a front end to its command line tools, there is nothing that says you can't compile it in Linux using Wine. Granted, yes, it may not be perfect (or even work), but if we are going to nitpick then we should look at all possibilities.
»codingstyle.com/articles ··· ine.html

If you really want to hack together a solution, then go for it, but I'm only concerned with the preferred, legal methods. Using that hack of a solution I miss out on all the wonderful tools in Visual Studio, especially the sweet debugger and the WinMo emulator. I'm also sure Microsoft has something to say about running their IDE tools on a non-Windows platform.

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

And if we are going to be specific, you might as well add another point for iPhone development - You need an actual Mac computer. Because, as much as I disagree with the TOS they say that can only install Mac OS on an Apple computer which will usually cost you even more.

But at the same time, I might as well add yet another point to WinMo development: I would need a Windows computer for writing for WinMo. However, by getting an Intel Mac and a copy of Windows, I meet two hardware requirements with one machine.

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

And hey you know while I am still here, Microsoft has released eVB6 and eVC++ as freeware which is older than dirt, yes, but its free.
eVC++: »www.microsoft.com/downlo ··· ylang=en
As far as eVB...its buried somewhere on the internet as it seems Microsoft doesn't want people to have it, and who can blame them but this tutorial does reference it and I have used it in the past:
»www.developerfusion.com/ ··· l-basic/

msdn.txt
19,889 bytes

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22533512 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:55:27 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22530231 said by Chillin:

said by tiger72:

said by Metatron2008:

Camera phones are always crap. Seriously. Even the decent ones are crap to any budget $50-$80 camera. I don't get why people get their panties in a bunch over camera phones that would've been good in 2002.

Camera phones will ALWAYS be crap. Ya know why? Even with a decent lens, you'll never have good flash because that takes power, which the camera has to share with THE PHONE ITSELF.

I agree the HTC Touch Pro is a better phone, but not a better all in one device. The iphone has better web surfing (well yes and no, no flash hurts this), and the appstore is like you said, mainstream.

I've carried around gameboys, and recently a ds and then a ds lite because I'm a hardcore gamer. The iphone has replaced that, and I can't really see myself going to another phone unless I also carry around a psp (No dsi for me) :(

You have a Sony, don't ya.

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

I have a Canon 40d, I would never want to use ANY camera phone for ANY picture I care about. I suspect this is true of MOST users of MOST phones.

I doubt ANY phone can touch the quality of MOST quality stand alone cameras.

I think you are just upset that millions of people do not find these to be an issue with the iPhone. The things the iPhone does not do the "best", are far out shined by the things it does do the best. They will keep working on it im sure. I mean right there with the Sony you are linking I see some massive flaws, it will only hold a 8gb memory card. iPhones have been 8gb for 2 years and are now 32gb, why cant Sony step up? 8gb and you have to go buy a card to do that I bet? Thats weak. Lets not get into the smaller screen and a boring look. Thats just what I see from taking 20 seconds at the link. I am sure there is more.

Many of us, love the iPhone and there is nothing you can do to change that. Troll away.

said by Chillin:

said by tiger72:

No, I'd agree with tiger72 about this. I'd LOVE to have a good camera on a smartphone. I'd LOVE an all in one device.

But I don't love when I get devices and the camera is crap.

One day I seriously hope their is a good all-in-one device. Until then I'll use my real camera.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22530231 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:03:26 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22530194 said by tiger72:

said by tiger72:

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

I don't know.. is it perhaps people aren't looking for a good camera phone because having a camera in their phone simply isn't a priority to them over making a phone call, getting email, surfing the web, listening to music, watching video, working with their calendar, sending text messages, and the interface to do all those things?
Well said, to be honest the camera function is one of the least features I consider when looking at a phone. In fact the iPhone could be without one, I wouldn't care.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22529553 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:53:41 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22529450 said by tiger72:

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

They're not looking for a quality camera phone because they make the same ASSumption you do: that all cameraphones are inferior to dedicated cameras. The links I posted have better quality photos than my old Fuji $99 camera ever gave me. And don't get me started on the pathetic Polaroid and Kodak boxes that pass as "digital cameras".
I don't know.. is it perhaps people aren't looking for a good camera phone because having a camera in their phone simply isn't a priority to them over making a phone call, getting email, surfing the web, listening to music, watching video, working with their calendar, sending text messages, and the interface to do all those things?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22529450 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:42:25 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22529430 said by tiger72:

said by Chillin:

You have a Sony, don't ya.

Nope. But I'm open minded, and know a good phone when I see one.

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

I have a Canon 40d, I would never want to use ANY camera phone for ANY picture I care about. I suspect this is true of MOST users of MOST phones.

This is a red-herring, but i'll bite.
I have a Digital Rebel XT. I also have an HD camcorder which takes very nice photos.

Neither of those is nearly as convenient as a camera phone. That is the entire reason to have a camera phone. You seem to be against the very idea of a camera phone, and if that's the case, just say so.

I doubt ANY phone can touch the quality of MOST quality stand alone cameras.

Ahh, a shifting target now. Metatron stated that even decent camera phones are worse than those practically disposable kodak/polaroid /budget (but dedicated!) cameras.

Now you're raising the bar to the quality of a "quality" stand alone camera - something quite ambiguous indeed. Last I checked, most cameras sold are not D40's or any other SLR. They are simple point-and-shoot cameras, and the fact that you raise the bar concedes my very point: That there ARE quality camera phones which can replace your typical standard point-and-shoot camera (the device that camera-phones are intended to replace). The iPhone, and all of these other "multimedia" phones from the likes of Samsung/etc can do the same, but they keep it cheap because people's expectations are low.

Congratulations on having low expectations and making the Death Star and its allies (Apple/Samsung/etc) happy! No really, pat yourself on the back for being perfectly happy to pay more to get less.
I have a open mind. I have had Sonys/Nokias/Samsungs/Audiovox PPC 6700/and many others. So what can you say now? I used all of them, they do ok. They are NOT an iPhone. I am not loyal to the iPhone. I will buy the phone I feel does what i want it to do BEST. So far ive seen nothing that touches it. You are welcome to have a differening opinion but your opinion on what I should want out of a phone means squat.

I dont buy a phone for its camera, I could care less what the quality of the camera is. I have a nice point and shoot sony and a Canon 40d. I would never use a phone to take an image I cared about so it is a non issue for me. If it is for you thats great, stop trying to make it one for others. Its CLEARLY not one based on the iPhones sales.

My low expectations about phones were actually set with the many other brands I tried before the iPhone. It wasn't hard for the iPhone to win me over based on the poor quality of phones out there.

As if Sony and other companies are not after the same thing Apple is. Just because Apple is better at it doesn't make any of those companies more/less evil than Apple. I hope you dont kid yourself with that crap.

You actually think you could change anyones mind here? Everyone here had a phone before the iPhone, and they must have not been happy with it because they moved on. I have never met a person with a iPhone that didn't love it. Additionally many people here are power users and probably have had smart phones, pdas, and all sorts of phones. If these people have moved to the iPhone they probably did it for good reason.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22529430 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:39:28 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22528943 said by Chillin:

You have a Sony, don't ya.Nope. But I'm open minded, and know a good phone when I see one.

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

I have a Canon 40d, I would never want to use ANY camera phone for ANY picture I care about. I suspect this is true of MOST users of MOST phones.

I doubt ANY phone can touch the quality of MOST quality stand alone cameras.

It seems that you've never used a Sony CyberShot phone.

Sony, as far as I know, is the only manufacturer that makes quality phones, music players, and cameras. Its w-series phones are indeed very good for music. Its K (or more recently, C) series phones are CyberShot quality. Xenon flash. Carl-Zeiss lens.

»www.sonyericsson.com/cws ··· en&cc=us

You may be sick of people getting their panties in a bunch over camera phones. I'm sick of people making broad statements like you did without knowing the alternatives. I'm gonna guess: You have an iPhone, don't ya?

There ARE Camera phones which take high-quality photos.
The below are photos taken with the older 5mp CyberShot k850i, and some are on the newer 8mp CyberShot C905. Both camera-phones have xenon flash.

»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 4772811/
»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 3183660/
»www.flickr.com/photos/om ··· 1213831/
»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 1674993/
»www.flickr.com/photos/21 ··· 1519906/
»www.flickr.com/photos/lc ··· 6339424/
»www.flickr.com/photos/su ··· 6609905/
»www.flickr.com/photos/su ··· 9486329/
»www.flickr.com/photos/29 ··· 0180369/
»www.flickr.com/photos/an ··· 7242036/
You have a Sony, don't ya.

Most people, are not looking for super high quality photos out of their phone. Obviously this is true or the iPhone would not be popular.

I have a Canon 40d, I would never want to use ANY camera phone for ANY picture I care about. I suspect this is true of MOST users of MOST phones.

I doubt ANY phone can touch the quality of MOST quality stand alone cameras.

I think you are just upset that millions of people do not find these to be an issue with the iPhone. The things the iPhone does not do the "best", are far out shined by the things it does do the best. They will keep working on it im sure. I mean right there with the Sony you are linking I see some massive flaws, it will only hold a 8gb memory card. iPhones have been 8gb for 2 years and are now 32gb, why cant Sony step up? 8gb and you have to go buy a card to do that I bet? Thats weak. Lets not get into the smaller screen and a boring look. Thats just what I see from taking 20 seconds at the link. I am sure there is more.

Many of us, love the iPhone and there is nothing you can do to change that. Troll away.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22528654 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:51:05 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22528416 said by Metatron2008:

Camera phones are always crap. Seriously. Even the decent ones are crap to any budget $50-$80 camera. I don't get why people get their panties in a bunch over camera phones that would've been good in 2002.

Camera phones will ALWAYS be crap. Ya know why? Even with a decent lens, you'll never have good flash because that takes power, which the camera has to share with THE PHONE ITSELF.

I agree the HTC Touch Pro is a better phone, but not a better all in one device. The iphone has better web surfing (well yes and no, no flash hurts this), and the appstore is like you said, mainstream.

I've carried around gameboys, and recently a ds and then a ds lite because I'm a hardcore gamer. The iphone has replaced that, and I can't really see myself going to another phone unless I also carry around a psp (No dsi for me) :(
It seems that you've never used a Sony CyberShot phone.

Sony, as far as I know, is the only manufacturer that makes quality phones, music players, and cameras. Its w-series phones are indeed very good for music. Its K (or more recently, C) series phones are CyberShot quality. Xenon flash. Carl-Zeiss lens.

»www.sonyericsson.com/cws ··· en&cc=us

You may be sick of people getting their panties in a bunch over camera phones. I'm sick of people making broad statements like you did without knowing the alternatives. I'm gonna guess: You have an iPhone, don't ya?

There ARE Camera phones which take high-quality photos.
The below are photos taken with the older 5mp CyberShot k850i, and some are on the newer 8mp CyberShot C905. Both camera-phones have xenon flash.

»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 4772811/
»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 3183660/
»www.flickr.com/photos/om ··· 1213831/
»www.flickr.com/photos/br ··· 1674993/
»www.flickr.com/photos/21 ··· 1519906/
»www.flickr.com/photos/lc ··· 6339424/
»www.flickr.com/photos/su ··· 6609905/
»www.flickr.com/photos/su ··· 9486329/
»www.flickr.com/photos/29 ··· 0180369/
»www.flickr.com/photos/an ··· 7242036/
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22528416 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:16:31 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22526770 said by David:

said by Uncle Paul:

Bull I've yet to see anything that Microsoft does... or doesn't do that won't bring people to the table to complain.

You need to talk to my sister about "Windows Vista" then.

I am sure she would be more than happy to visit your table and complain plenty.
Thank you for proving my point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22526770 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:47:51 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22525199 said by tiger72:

Says who? Last I checked, the remote kill-switch refers to apps from the market - identical to the AppStore. Has no effect on 3rd party apps.
For an example, look at some of the tethering apps. Some of them have been removed by Google from the Market. None of them have been removed from any devices.
Thank you for correcting me. I don't have an Android to test it with, but I did find this: »www.engadgetmobile.com/2 ··· -rascals
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less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22525199 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:29:25 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22525177 said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

At times I do forget things, I must have missed it in the post tracker thing on DSLR, but making personal attacks does not help your argument.I apologize if I've insulted you. I was just surprised that it seemed as if you had completely forgotten the last discussion we had. BBR sometimes doesn't notify me of new posts in News threads, so maybe it has memory loss.

Looks neat for a hobby, but I wouldn't trust that for serious business.

Since you're considering hacking the IDE tools or using esoteric methods to get around the standard WinMo limitations, then just jailbreak the iPhone. That gains you the same level of freedom that hacking at WinMo has.

Or just use Android.
--
less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22525177 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:24:58 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22524145
Also, the Apple hardware is homogeneous, as is the network, unless someone is using an unlocked iPhone on a different carrier (in which case it's easy to demarcate the problem).

The license thing is a valid issue, but again we're looking at economies of scale here and a unified experience for the customer. Go to the store, search for the app. Two taps and an iTunes password later, it's bought.

On the homogeneity deal, WinMo runs on tons of devices with no particular specification requirements. my HTC Touch Pro has 256MB of RAM I think. The Mogul has 64MB if I remember correctly. Big difference in the way things work. On the iPhone side, you can develop for one iPhone and the app will work for all of 'em. Since OS upgrades are free to iphone users and cheap to iTouch users, you only have to develop for one OS configuration.

Granted, the 3Gs has a compass and a video camera, and the iPhone has cellular data where the iTouch doesn't. But the homogeneity of the software and hardware makes problems easier to pinpoint and solve.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22524145 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:23:24 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523981 said by iansltx:

BlueHost is 5 Gbit/s I think. Maybe 10.

Though you're right, an indie dev might not get a ton of downloads. In the app store OTOH you get exposure and people have made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling a $3 app. Lots of downloads there, which is part of the reason Apple takes a 30% cut, but still, would you rather sell 100 copies of an app at $20 and keep $18 or sell 2000 copies at $3 and keep $2.10? Clearly the latter.
I would rather sell 100 copies and be able to distribute it under my own license for one.
Looking at it from If you are selling an app at $3 then its probably not worth getting in my honest opinion. But, if this is a serious app, such as say a SSH client (for example!), and you sell it at $3/pop to 1000 people. The probability of a problem happening goes way up, and can you really say by yourself you can manage the problems of a percentage of 1000 people? I would rather have a percentage of 100 people having a problem than a 1000.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523981 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:57:18 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523798
Though you're right, an indie dev might not get a ton of downloads. In the app store OTOH you get exposure and people have made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling a $3 app. Lots of downloads there, which is part of the reason Apple takes a 30% cut, but still, would you rather sell 100 copies of an app at $20 and keep $18 or sell 2000 copies at $3 and keep $2.10? Clearly the latter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523798 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:28:42 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523773
You can make a camera phone (phone emphasized) or a camera that makes calls, like they're doing in japan. If the camera's th focus it'll do well. if the phone's the focus (like the iphone) then the camera won't be the best. it's not the phone's main feature and thus I'm unsure why people are sweating over it so much.

About the Touch Pro it (and other WinMo phones) can use Skyfire. Firefox on the server, your phone is the client. Works like a charm in 3G areas. Flash, Java and everything, though you'll need something else to speedtest your connection :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523773 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:24:59 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523635 said by iansltx:

You want to use BlueHost to host a WinMo app? C'mon, use a CDN...for that $4 you could get maybe 100GB of high quality bandwidth that's n par with Apple's Akamai stuff.
I think you are missing the point. There really isn't any difference between 100GB vs 1GB unless you are talking about a high traffic application like Google Maps. I'll bet your indie app probably wont ever reach the amount that your thinking. And lets say you have 100GB backing the download to your app, it really wouldn't matter to the end users anyways because they can only download as fast as their ISP will let them, definatly not at 100GB/s. I don't know what network bluehost has but I bet its close if not greater to 100MB/s which is good enough for any indie developer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523635 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:58:52 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523607
Camera phones will ALWAYS be crap. Ya know why? Even with a decent lens, you'll never have good flash because that takes power, which the camera has to share with THE PHONE ITSELF.

I agree the HTC Touch Pro is a better phone, but not a better all in one device. The iphone has better web surfing (well yes and no, no flash hurts this), and the appstore is like you said, mainstream.

I've carried around gameboys, and recently a ds and then a ds lite because I'm a hardcore gamer. The iphone has replaced that, and I can't really see myself going to another phone unless I also carry around a psp (No dsi for me) :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523607 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:54:55 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523521
On the camera, the new 3.2MP unit in the iPhone fixes the problem that plagues older iPhones: a crappy camera. Not horrible, just crappy, with fixed focus and no adjustments available. My Touch pro has a 3.2MP AF cmaera, which is fine, though colors are lacking in saturation. If I wanted a camera I'd use my $80 Kodak EasyShare Z1275...12 freaking megapixels. Though I wish my Olympus C 5050 came in a small modern package with an SD card slot and fast focus...the pictures that cam takes really are stellar.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523521 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:39:33 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523492 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523492 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:36:02 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523481
1. I own an HTC Touch Pro. Upgraded from an HTC Mogul. Got teh mogul before the iphone and guess what, I use the Touch Pro every day.
2. You DON'T have to pay for the iPhone SDK. You DO have to pay to get an app into the app store. Two different things, thugh you're right if you're saying that the cost to develop an app is more on the iPhone. Since you have to buy a mac to use the iPhone dev tools.
3. The iPhone brought the smartphone market mainstream. This is from a person who has been using Palm products for years and whose main phone runs Windows Mobile. I've seen plenty of people with smartphones before the iPhone and after, but many people have iPhones who wuldn't have a smartphone if it were not for that device.
4. 40 million iPhone OS devices in the world or more, saith Apple at the WWDC yesterday.
5. The 3Gs has a few upgrades in it as wel. Pretty significant ones actually. HSPA 7.2 (the older iPhone didn't have HSUPA). Built-in compass. 3.2 megapixel camera with AF and video. Faster processor. Not earth-shattering but a decent upgrade. Plus the older iPhones get some perks, with the 3G getting stereo Bluetooth and MMS.
6. I know about the upgrade coolness of HTC's next-gen devices. Though they seem to be taking some cues from the iPhone...a good thing but not to be overlooked. I like my Touch Pro much better than the Mogul. There are a lot of upgrades in there, though I can't name real new features vs. the newest Mogul firmware. Just a big design overhaul and TouchFlo.
7. There are apps out there that will do on WM what the apps do on iPhones, except for games like Trism where there's a single dev making something creative and who chooses their mobile platform judiciously. The iphone App Store provides lots f eyeballs for applications, so more get made. You might even see your app on TV ds. Try that with WinMo.
8. Battery life wise, 6 hours is pathetic. My laptop lasts that long. The iphone will last a day or two. If your phone can't survive two days on a charge with your usage pattern, the manufacturer should fix that problem. My Touch pro certainly can't, and it's the one thing that drives me mad about that phone and, to a lesser extent, my Mogul (it had better battery life than the Touch pro has).

I'm not saying that the iPhone is flat-out better than any other phone out there. If it was so much better than I'd be paying triple my current phone bill for service with AT&T on the device. Each devices has its strengths and weaknesses. However you see more iPods than Zunes out in the regular public, and you see more iPhones than BlackBerries, HTCs etc.

Maybe we should make a site 'Why WinMo" doing a point by point rundown of why you don't need an iphone to get the job done, whatever that job might be. Would probably save people money, get them better coverage, etc. Because right now Apple is gaining economies of scale because their hype machine is marketing a decent (though not stellar) product with a good UI. So devs follow and voila, you've got a huge market share, whether the product is crap or not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523481 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:34:04 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523408 said by Ctrl Alt Del:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Why does it cost $300? The SDK is free and the IDE is free, what else do you need? And bandwidth is dirt cheap. Hell for ~84/year I can get all you can eat from bluehost. And my WM app wont ever get taken down.

You must have short term memory loss. I proved you wrong right here: »Re: Windows mobile wins again

To recap. Here's the requirements to write for Windows Mobile:
1) Windows computer running Windows XP SP2 or higher.
2) Visual Studio Standard or higher. $299
3) Windows Mobile SDK. Free.

NOTE: Visual Studio Express is free, but does not support writing for Windows Mobile.

The requires for iPhone are:
1) Mac running OS X 10.5 or higher.
2) iPhone Developer account. $99
3) Xcode. Free.
At times I do forget things, I must have missed it in the post tracker thing on DSLR, but making personal attacks does not help your argument.

Sorry, I was under the impression you could indeed write WM apps using the express editions. It wasn't any concern for me because since I am attending college I get all their software for free (legally). You are right on that matter and I can't find anything that says otherwise.
However, your first comparison is a little unopen minded. You don't NEED Windows to compile MSVS applications. Since VS IDE is just a front end to its command line tools, there is nothing that says you can't compile it in Linux using Wine. Granted, yes, it may not be perfect (or even work), but if we are going to nitpick then we should look at all possibilities.
»codingstyle.com/articles ··· ine.html

And if we are going to be specific, you might as well add another point for iPhone development - You need an actual Mac computer. Because, as much as I disagree with the TOS they say that can only install Mac OS on an Apple computer which will usually cost you even more.

And hey you know while I am still here, Microsoft has released eVB6 and eVC++ as freeware which is older than dirt, yes, but its free.
eVC++: »www.microsoft.com/downlo ··· ylang=en
As far as eVB...its buried somewhere on the internet as it seems Microsoft doesn't want people to have it, and who can blame them but this tutorial does reference it and I have used it in the past:
»www.developerfusion.com/ ··· l-basic/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523408 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:21:02 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523373
There's also the marketing machine. People on oter platforms have to hunt for good apps. n the iPhone, there's one store, and they'll promote some apps on TV. Big win for developers and users.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather Android be the leader here, but it isn't. Android will come to Sprint, iphone won't. But the fact remains that the iphone OS is now the most heavily developed mobile OS out there, and people will make buying decisions based on that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523373 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:15:40 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523287 said by Uncle Paul:

Bull I've yet to see anything that Microsoft does... or doesn't do that won't bring people to the table to complain.
You need to talk to my sister about "Windows Vista" then.

I am sure she would be more than happy to visit your table and complain plenty.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523287 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:01:21 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523211 said by Metatron2008:

said by tiger72:

said by expert007:

Preferring an iPhone is not a crime, and it doesn't indicate a political affiliation, media bias, or "fanboi" status.

For some of us, we just like our iPhones. It quite simply is the best device I've ever used, and I really don't need to be chided for not knowing the ins and outs of every single technogeek gadget out there.

You get fanboi status because you simply assume it's the best, and then label everything else that you're too lazy to try a "technogeek gadget".

I'm sorry, but after reading the topic, Expert007 NEVER SAID WHAT YOUR SAYING.

Your assuming he did, and you've made every attempt to bash the Iphone. Your the 'fanboi' here, not anyone else.
He labeled every other phone a "technogeek gadget" out of ignorance. How else could that be interpreted? Can you read?
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523211 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:50:15 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523201 said by tiger72:

You get fanboi status because you simply assume it's the best, and then label everything else that you're too lazy to try a "technogeek gadget".
I'm sorry, but after reading the topic, Expert007 NEVER SAID WHAT YOUR SAYING.

Your assuming he did, and you've made every attempt to bash the Iphone. Your the 'fanboi' here, not anyone else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523201 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:48:32 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523168 said by tiger72:

You get fanboi status because you simply assume it's the best, and then label everything else that you're too lazy to try a "technogeek gadget".
Or here is a shocker, SOME people have different tastes... this is why there are different kinds of phones to start with. I know thats probably like a wow moument for you thats the reality.

But I do want to clear up something.

I have had 2 Windows Mobile Phones. Played with for long periods multiple blackberrys, owned several other flavors of phones like ericson, nokia, samsung, and others in smart phone and regular phone flavors. I still stand here saying they cant touch the iPhone. I have one friend that refused to believe iPhones where great, so he bought him and his wife the Storm.... guess what they own now? iPhones. But it seems like your saying that I couldn't have had those opinions of those phones because you dont? Wait, and that makes ME the fanboy? Are you sure your just not the "hater". If blackberry comes out next year with something I find better than a iPhone, id buy it.

Again I doubt anyone is saying its perfect.... its just more perfet.
--
Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523168 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:44:33 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523009 said by tiger72:

As long as you're a well connected musician who can affect sales, absolutely it's not an issue.
Not true. I'm an iPhone developer. And I have had my apps approved and rejected. And apple has been 100% clear on why the app was rejected 100% of the time with me. They even gave me a link to there documentation on how to fix what ever the problem was. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22523009 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:18:17 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522898 said by expert007:

Preferring an iPhone is not a crime, and it doesn't indicate a political affiliation, media bias, or "fanboi" status.

For some of us, we just like our iPhones. It quite simply is the best device I've ever used, and I really don't need to be chided for not knowing the ins and outs of every single technogeek gadget out there.
You get fanboi status because you simply assume it's the best, and then label everything else that you're too lazy to try a "technogeek gadget".
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522898 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:58:41 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522886 said by Ctrl Alt Del:

said by tiger72:

On the iPhone, if your app is rejected, however, you're SOL.
Unlike WinMo with its paid hosting. And unlike Android entirely (since you have an App Market *and* can install 3rd party apps).

And, regardless of how your Android app is distributed, the remote kill switch will still kill it. So saying you can install 3rd party apps means absolutely nothing, because the same rules apply. Says who? Last I checked, the remote kill-switch refers to apps from the market - identical to the AppStore. Has no effect on 3rd party apps.
For an example, look at some of the tethering apps. Some of them have been removed by Google from the Market. None of them have been removed from any devices.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522886 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:57:02 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522866 said by dlewis23:

Thats not true at all. If your app is rejected you have all the opportunities in the world to fix it and re submit it. Apple is very clear in what they say is wrong in the app, and most of the time they even tell you how to fix it. As long as you're a well connected musician who can affect sales, absolutely it's not an issue.

You know everyone bashes the iPhone for simple things it didn't have, but yet they don't give it credit for things it does/has that no other phone still has or does even remotely well.

Like what? What does the iphone have that no other phone has or does remotely well? Again, I hear this from the fanbois, but other than making them feel better in their hearts, there's not much to it.

And features that other phones have started putting in that the iPhone perfected are complete shit. The touch screen for example, there are only 2 other phones besides the iphone that have decent touch screens (G1/Pre) all other touch screen phones flat out suck because there screen is total shit.

Unfortunately, resistive touch screen requirement is an issue with *WinMo*. The reason other touchscreen phones sucked is because they were all winmo and were resistive touch.

I can give Apple credit for pushing for change on this front.

Even the G1/Pre haven't matched the iPhone on its touch screen.

I disagree, but that's just me.

And everyone please SHUT THE FUCK UP about the camera. I am so sick of the "oh its only got 3MP my 2 year old camera has 5MP, or 8MP" yea and it still takes shitty pictures. Anyone with half a brain knows the MP rating doesn't really matter.

Ok then. How about "it's a shitty quality camera"? Make you feel better in your tummy? You can get better quality cameras at higher megapixels than Apple. For a multimedia phone, that's a stupid move.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522866 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:54:44 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522791
For some of us, we just like our iPhones. It quite simply is the best device I've ever used, and I really don't need to be chided for not knowing the ins and outs of every single technogeek gadget out there. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522791 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:39:12 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522767 said by Mr Matt:

:D Apple and AT&T keep sticking it to iPhone buyers by rendering product obsolete in milliseconds. How long before the next generation of iPhone is introduced? I would think that those consumers buying iPhones would be smart enough to boycott Apple and AT&T until they get some relief. Sorry I forgot about that pesky contract iPhone buyers sign and the associated termination liability.
Since when is releasing an improved model "sticking it to their customers"? And how is a new model once per year equal to "milliseconds"?

It's not like you're forced to buy the new version, or that the old version spontaneously combusts. My two year old first gen Edge iPhone still works like new and is still being updated by Apple, which is more than I can say for most of the POS HTC and Motorola phones I've used that had to be exchanged within the first year due to mechanical issues. The battery is working pretty well for a phone that's seen such heavy use too.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522767 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:34:43 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522699 said by tiger72:

On the iPhone, if your app is rejected, however, you're SOL.
Unlike WinMo with its paid hosting. And unlike Android entirely (since you have an App Market *and* can install 3rd party apps).
If you don't want to submit your application to Apple and want to retain control over distribution just like WinMo, then sign up for an Enterprise developer account for $300, the same price as Visual Studio Standard. Then you don't submit anything to Apple, you distribute your app yourself through your own internal "store", and you can centrally manage it.

All the benefits of WinMo just went away.

And, regardless of how your Android app is distributed, the remote kill switch will still kill it. So saying you can install 3rd party apps means absolutely nothing, because the same rules apply.

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less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522699 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:22:30 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522658 said by tiger72:

On the iPhone, if your app is rejected, however, you're SOL.
Unlike WinMo with its paid hosting. And unlike Android entirely (since you have an App Market *and* can install 3rd party apps).
Thats not true at all. If your app is rejected you have all the opportunities in the world to fix it and re submit it. Apple is very clear in what they say is wrong in the app, and most of the time they even tell you how to fix it.

You know everyone bashes the iPhone for simple things it didn't have, but yet they don't give it credit for things it does/has that no other phone still has or does even remotely well.

And features that other phones have started putting in that the iPhone perfected are complete shit. The touch screen for example, there are only 2 other phones besides the iphone that have decent touch screens (G1/Pre) all other touch screen phones flat out suck because there screen is total shit.

Even the G1/Pre haven't matched the iPhone on its touch screen.

And everyone please SHUT THE FUCK UP about the camera. I am so sick of the "oh its only got 3MP my 2 year old camera has 5MP, or 8MP" yea and it still takes shitty pictures. Anyone with half a brain knows the MP rating doesn't really matter. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522658 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:13:46 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522502 said by tiger72:

No, that's planned obsolescence when lesser devices get it out of the box standard, but this particular device requires you to upgrade and upgrade to incrementally get the same features as much cheaper, simpler, more basic handsets.
Perhaps you will have to redefine which you consider a "lesser device"
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522502 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:47:06 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522479 said by tiger72:

said by Ctrl Alt Del:

The iPhone isn't the only phone with a remote kill switch, so you've got another phone to add to your list. Google's Android also has a remote kill switch, which is actually spelled out in their terms: "Google may discover a product that violates the developer distribution agreement ... in such an instance, Google retains the right to remotely remove those applications from your device at its sole discretion". Both the iPhone and Android kill switches are used to disable specific applications, not your entire phone. Haven't heard of either being used yet.

Also, Windows Mobile is very expensive to develop for, three times more expensive even. It costs $300 write an application for Windows Mobile, plus your bandwidth to distribute your app. The iPhone costs $100 to write an application and bandwidth to distribute is included if your app is accepted. Ad Hoc or Enterprise subscriptions are alternative methods.

On the iPhone, if your app is rejected, however, you're SOL.
Unlike WinMo with its paid hosting. And unlike Android entirely (since you have an App Market *and* can install 3rd party apps).
All 4,900 of them. (thats how many BB has for the android).

iPhone has 50,000+ apps and growing.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522479 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:43:50 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522469 said by tiger72:

said by Chillin:

said by tiger72:

what did they innovate?

I hear that alot, but I have yet to see what you're talking about.

For starters, a touch screen that actually works well and has yet to be duplicated by anyone else as well.

See Blackberry Storm... and the Samsung crap that was supose to be the iPhone killer and has more or less flopped in comparison.

What? You mean a capacitive touch Screen? The G1 and HTC Magic have capacitive touch screens. They're pretty good imo.
It never ceases to amaze me how many Apple fanbois think that Apple somehow has a monopoly on amazing technology like capacitive touch, multitouch, or 3g.

How about the fact its a iPod, next you will tell us there are better MP3 players out there than a iPod, which is probably why so many manufactures now sell cars with iPod hookups from the factory.

Actually, I'll disagree with you there. The iPod is a pretty good MP3 player. I actually think it's fatal flaw is what many people love about it: a reliance on itunes.

This goes on and on. Meanwhile sure the iPhone wasn't and isn't perfect. Its what a 2 year old device now. Ive never seen lines of people to buy any phone other than an iPhone. So you do the math, they did A LOT of things right clearly.

Yes. Marketing. They use traditional (TV) advertising and viral marketing better than ANY.ONE.ELSE. They should be applauded for that. For the iPhone or their Macs? Not so much.
I didn't say other phones dont have it. I said they dont do it as well. Ive put my hands on many flavors of phones, the iPhones touch screen is flat out better.

I dont have a problem with iTunes, nor must millions of other people.

Apple does do well at advertising, novel idea I know. Your mad as a company that has done well with their product both due to it being a great product and their ability to put it out there? WOW. They are destroying other companies market share with it and mainly because what they are selling IS better.

Nobody, or at least I am not saying the iPhone is perfect. But ive had many other phones, I find it the most perfect yet.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522469 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:41:48 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522453 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522453 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:38:25 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522451 said by tiger72:

said by Chillin:

All of which are shaking in their boots about the iPhone. Numbers dont lie.

Count how many of those companies advertise during primetime.
Then count how many iPhone commercials you see in the same amount of time.

Hype and advertising are why the iPhone is successful.
Ya so your making the argument that Blackberry doesn't advertise? I see one of those about as much as you see a iPhone commercial. At least in my market I do.

Many other companies dont advertise as much because per dollar spent on advertising vs return is not worth it, they cant sell that many because not nearly as many people want it.

Ive never bought a product based on a TV commercial that I can remember anyway. So thats not the only reason those products cant touch the iPhone in sales.
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Graphic Disorder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522451 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:38:18 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522382 said by openbox9:

Just because a product doesn't have the features that you desire, doesn't make it obsolete. Personally, I could care less about MMS, video recording, and A2DP. If you care about them, then don't purchase an iPhone. The iPhones won't be obsolete until the carriers ban them from their networks or Apple sufficiently changes the hardware such that software upgrades for older models is unsustainable (e.g. desktop migration from PowerPC to Intel).
No, you see, an example of a feature the iPhone doesn't have that I like is a keyboard. I like to wear gloves when it's cold outside, and capacitive touch screens aren't very happy with that. That is, however, not something which makes it obsolete. There are a number of issues similar to that which don't make the phone obsolete. The features I list again below, however, do make the phones obsolete. Every. Year.

A multimedia phone without A2DP support? That's planned obsolescence. I have yet to see a multimedia phone from any other phone maker not have basic stereo bluetooth support. A multimedia phone without video recording support? That's planned obsolescence. Those aren't amazing features. My w580i - now discontinued, but offered free on contract with ATT, had both. Yet the original $500 iphone "smartphone? Nope. And the $200 on contract iPhone3g "smartphone? Nope. The w580i had voice dialing. For free. The $200 iPhone "smartphone"? Nope.

No, that's planned obsolescence when lesser devices get it out of the box standard, but this particular device requires you to upgrade and upgrade to incrementally get the same features as much cheaper, simpler, more basic handsets.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522382 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:28:38 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522377 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522377 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:27:49 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522364 said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Why does it cost $300? The SDK is free and the IDE is free, what else do you need? And bandwidth is dirt cheap. Hell for ~84/year I can get all you can eat from bluehost. And my WM app wont ever get taken down.
You must have short term memory loss. I proved you wrong right here: »Re: Windows mobile wins again

To recap. Here's the requirements to write for Windows Mobile:
1) Windows computer running Windows XP SP2 or higher.
2) Visual Studio Standard or higher. $299
3) Windows Mobile SDK. Free.

NOTE: Visual Studio Express is free, but does not support writing for Windows Mobile.

The requires for iPhone are:
1) Mac running OS X 10.5 or higher.
2) iPhone Developer account. $99
3) Xcode. Free.
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less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522364 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:25:45 EDT Re: iPhone buyers are not the brightest bulbs in the string. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522337 said by Ctrl Alt Del:

The iPhone isn't the only phone with a remote kill switch, so you've got another phone to add to your list. Google's Android also has a remote kill switch, which is actually spelled out in their terms: "Google may discover a product that violates the developer distribution agreement ... in such an instance, Google retains the right to remotely remove those applications from your device at its sole discretion". Both the iPhone and Android kill switches are used to disable specific applications, not your entire phone. Haven't heard of either being used yet.

Also, Windows Mobile is very expensive to develop for, three times more expensive even. It costs $300 write an application for Windows Mobile, plus your bandwidth to distribute your app. The iPhone costs $100 to write an application and bandwidth to distribute is included if your app is accepted. Ad Hoc or Enterprise subscriptions are alternative methods.
Why does it cost $300? The SDK is free and the IDE is free, what else do you need? And bandwidth is dirt cheap. Hell for ~84/year I can get all you can eat from bluehost. And my WM app wont ever get taken down.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-iPhone-buyers-are-not-the-brightest-bulbs-in-the-string-22522337 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:20:13 EDT