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Gone Fishing
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Gone Fishing

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[Info] Linus: Microsoft Hatred Is a Disease


»www.linux-mag.com/cache/ ··· 9/1.html
Snapped 2009-07-24 18:53:58
www . linux-mag . com

Microsoft Patches Linux; Linus Responds
...
We put this question to Linus, asking whether this patch was something he would be happy to include, even though it’s from Microsoft. He replied:

Oh, I’m a big believer in “technology over politics”. I don’t care who it comes from, as long as there are solid reasons for the code, and as long as we don’t have to worry about licensing etc issues.

In fact, to some degree, I’d be more likely to include it because it’s from a new member of the community rather than less (again, I’d like to point out that drivers are special. They don’t impact other things, so they get merged much more easily than some core changes).

I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.

There are ‘extremists’ in the free software world, but that’s one major reason why I don’t call what I do ‘free software’ any more. I don’t want to be associated with the people for whom it’s about exclusion and hatred."


...

More @ »www.linux-mag.com/id/7439/



Related: »www.thewindowsclub.com/l ··· -disease

nwrickert
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join:2004-09-04
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nwrickert

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Yes, a good comment and not really surprising.

Some in the linux community are there as Microsoft haters. But most are there as pragmatists. They use open source software because it does useful things for them.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
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Jamestown, NC

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Matt3 to Gone Fishing

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said by Linus :

There are ‘extremists’ in the free software world, but that’s one major reason why I don’t call what I do ‘free software’ any more. I don’t want to be associated with the people for whom it’s about exclusion and hatred."
This is what is such a huge turnoff for me about a lot of FOSS projects and communities. I cannot stand the level of ignorance about Microsoft products in most FOSS communities. They steadfastly refuse to update their knowledge about Microsoft products and cling to old problems to champion their hatred of anything MS. It's childish.

I am accused often of being a MS fanboy when I try to correct patently false accusations against Microsoft or point out that the community is holding MS to a double standard in regards to things like security, interoperability, or cost. God forbid I express my frustration at something obviously broken with an open source product or the lack of innovation that comes from having ten thousand different forks of the same product. Instead of saying, "Hey, here is a guy that uses both products and is trying to help us figure out why he is frustrated when he uses ours," I am more often than not attacked.

I'm glad to see that Linus agrees it's a cancer that kills a lot of interest in open source. It definitely limits my involvement because I also don't want to be labeled as an open source zealot. I have to walk a thin line because I absolutely think open source is a perfect fit for a lot of problems, but there is a perception out there that FOSS is typically broken, poorly implemented, and lacking support. Why? For all the reasons I mentioned above.

(EDIT)

I just wanted to add that Linus' thoughts have restored a lot of my faith in the open source community. It's good to hear that he is so level-headed and not blindly myopic about technology. Very good read overall too, lots of other very good quotes from him.

BillRoland
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BillRoland

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said by Matt3:

This is what is such a huge turnoff for me about a lot of FOSS projects and communities. I cannot stand the level of ignorance about Microsoft products in most FOSS communities. They steadfastly refuse to update their knowledge about Microsoft products and cling to old problems to champion their hatred of anything MS. It's childish.

I am accused often of being a MS fanboy when I try to correct patently false accusations against Microsoft or point out that the community is holding MS to a double standard in regards to things like security, interoperability, or cost. God forbid I express my frustration at something obviously broken with an open source product or the lack of innovation that comes from having ten thousand different forks of the same product. Instead of saying, "Hey, here is a guy that uses both products and is trying to help us figure out why he is frustrated when he uses ours," I am more often than not attacked.

I'm glad to see that Linus agrees it's a cancer that kills a lot of interest in open source. It definitely limits my involvement because I also don't want to be labeled as an open source zealot. I have to walk a thin line because I absolutely think open source is a perfect fit for a lot of problems, but there is a perception out there that FOSS is typically broken, poorly implemented, and lacking support. Why? For all the reasons I mentioned above.

(EDIT)

I just wanted to add that Linus' thoughts have restored a lot of my faith in the open source community. It's good to hear that he is so level-headed and not blindly myopic about technology. Very good read overall too, lots of other very good quotes from him.
Well said, Matt3 . I too am glad to see Linus takes a common sense approach, unlike many of the fanboys in the open source community that view anything coming out of Redmond as the scourge of the earth.
OZO
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OZO to Matt3

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to Matt3
said by Matt3:

God forbid I express my frustration at something obviously broken with an open source product or the lack of innovation that comes from having ten thousand different forks of the same product. Instead of saying, "Hey, here is a guy that uses both products and is trying to help us figure out why he is frustrated when he uses ours," I am more often than not attacked.
I see and share your point. Sometimes it's extremely difficult to express your point to improve or fix something in open source projects because of up front argument like "it's an open source, what do you want from it, go away or fix it by yourself". It's almost similar to "if you don't like it - don't buy/use it" coming from the opposite camp. It's more about politics, rather then an actual care of a product development. And BTW, I'm believer in “technology over politics” too.

darcilicious
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darcilicious to Matt3

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Also, let it be said that not all open-source "communities" are the same -- some have different (more tolerant, friendlier, etc) social/cultural norms than others. Given that I rarely get to contribute paid time to OSS projects, I'm very picky as to where I do contribute. I have no problems passing by communities with obnoxious members...

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
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join:2003-07-20
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Matt3

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said by darcilicious:

Also, let it be said that not all open-source "communities" are the same -- some have different (more tolerant, friendlier, etc) social/cultural norms than others. Given that I rarely get to contribute paid time to OSS projects, I'm very picky as to where I do contribute. I have no problems passing by communities with obnoxious members...
That is a very good point. I have come across great open source communities, but I have come across some pretty terrible ones as well. The Handbrake community is awful, and the pfSense guys seem to be hit or miss. I think the worst is the DD-WRT community though.

I think the All Things Unix forum on this site is a great community if you weed out the people Linus is talking about. I generally try here first before bothering with the offical support forums.
Matt3

Matt3 to OZO

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to OZO
said by OZO:

I see and share your point. Sometimes it's extremely difficult to express your point to improve or fix something in open source projects because of up front argument like "it's an open source, what do you want from it, go away or fix it by yourself".
The dismissive comment of "fix it yourself" absolutely sets me off. I'm not a programmer and I have no desire to become one. Expecting an average user to fix the code themselves is ridiculous.

darcilicious
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darcilicious

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said by Matt3:

said by OZO:

I see and share your point. Sometimes it's extremely difficult to express your point to improve or fix something in open source projects because of up front argument like "it's an open source, what do you want from it, go away or fix it by yourself".
The dismissive comment of "fix it yourself" absolutely sets me off. I'm not a programmer and I have no desire to become one. Expecting an average user to fix the code themselves is ridiculous.
Communities that don't value ALL potential members aren't worth the time of day. On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for being a bug submitter, tester, and documentation writer too

GlobalMind
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GlobalMind to Gone Fishing

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There are extremists in the Msft world too. In fact they're just as bad as those they complain about, and just as bad as the Linux zealots.

Just look at how Microsoft deals with the collaborative software space. The FUD, the lies, and the zealotry of those folks is pretty amazing.
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Mele20
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Re: [Info] Linus: Microsoft Hatred Is a Disease

That was a very interesting, well written article. Thank you!

I've always admired the practical minded who use their common sense. As a result of that article and Linus Torvalds comments, I'm looking at Linux in a different and more favorable light now.

PeteC2
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Refreshing. I think that there is room in the software/OS world for both paradigms...and even more so. Although for the most part I am more than happy with MS products and the resultant model that I actually pay for their efforts, I equally think that the open-source market yield some incredible products and opportunities as well.

I am constantly amazed at the anger displayed in both camps! I do not use linux, simply because Windows meets my needs with little (but some!) adjusting, and I am willing to pay the cost...it really is just as simple as that! However, I feel that the open-source community absolutely forces MS to be just a little bit better than it would have to be without them! That reason alone endears me to the linux contingent!

Razzy12345
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Linux + Windows = HEAVEN!

I use both (Linux since 1995 and MS since the 80s) and LOVE both. Can't see why I should use only one or the other......

and F people who refer MS as ... "m$"...