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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL to cablewizzard

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to cablewizzard

Re: Ultra Users - what are your download speeds?

said by cablewizzard:

Surely, that might mean that OOL subs might gain a lot on average, while Boost and Ultra (which had privileged channels exclusive to them up to now), might be looking at a decline of available bandwidth to them, as they are competing with OOL subs for bandwidth - but OOL+Boost subs are no longer able to monopolize channel bandwidth as easily.

OOL (ie: Standard Tier) users do not compete with Boost and/or Ultra users for Bandwidth. Standard Tier has its own exclusive channel - 603Mhz which is dedicated to ONLY users of that Tier.

The exclusivity aspect will be gone - and I don't think that Boost subs (at only $10/month more, which includes other costly services like webhosting and vastly larger/more email boxes) were bringing in a proper return in exchange for that exclusivity (basically having an entire channel, 609Mhz, all to themselves).

They do not. They share 609Mhz with Ultra.

BTW: For the average Boost user the extra $15 (not $10 unless they also have VoIP) gets access to twice the available Bandwidth (30+Mbs vs 15Mbs). The hosting is not wide spread. As to the Mailbox issue, this is 5 2GB vs 15 5GB mailboxes. How many Boost Users use more than the 5 that come with Standard Tier or go over the 2GB cap on a mailbox. I think that those who do are a minority so I will stay with my analysis that the major feature of Boost is the extra speed.

Given that Ultra was even more exclusive (2 channels exclusively for them, until Boost D3 got deployed), at just ~$35/month more, the ROI on that might be considerably worse than for Boost, if the subscriber numbers for Ultra are significantly lower than for Boost.

The cost of providing DOCSIS downstream channels across an entire system is pretty staggering - they are too expensive to sit idle at any given time - basically, any unused bandwidth at peak time is a waste of money (and I am speculating that Boost tends to be heavily used by businesses, which do not operate after business hours, so there IS idle bandwidth there).

And yes, I fully believe they'll deploy a 4th DS channel before long for D3 modems (603Mhz OOL is for DOCSIS1+2 modems only, ever noticed? I think they gave up on using it for ALL supported D3 models at this point, even if using OOL-tier), and additional channels to leverage the 8-channel models as appropriate: some areas must be more busy than others.

D2 Boost users use 609Mhz. There are lots of D2 modems on the system supporting both Standard and Boost Tier users. Replacing them would be a major cost. Back when Standard Tier went to 15Mbs and thus there was a need to replace the old D1 modems with D2 modems, the cost was justified. The replacement of D2 modems with D3 modems for Standard Tier users (just to allow Bonding) is a different issue. Boost at 30+ Mbs is pushing the 38Mbs theoretical max per channel so upping the AVAILABLE bandwidth pool to 114Mbs to allow 24/7 provisioning of 30+ Mbs speeds via giving Boost Users D3 modems can be justified.

BTW: There is nothing technically preventing the use of 615Mhz and/or 621Mhz by Standard or Boost D2 users. Just push their parms to use one of these Frequencies in lieu of 603Mhz or 609Mhz respectively.

Given the cost, I can't see them going 8-channel systemwide - the overwhelming majority of the system is NOT congested at all, and that's with 1+3 DS channels, today, making such a massive investment unnecessary. Of course we hear far more often from unhappy posters in congested areas now, do we....

I can see adding a 4th Bonded Frequency to provide an extra 38Mbs bandwidth buffer. Going to more than 4 frequencies (aside from the 603Mhz allocated to Standard Tier) is only needed if they want to offer a faster Ultra (or Ultra like) Tier. The 4th frequency would give them some breathing room for a bump since the 101Mbs is pushing the envelope for 3 Frequencies (which is 114Mbs minus overhead).

catvtec
@optonline.net

catvtec

Anon

said by RARPSL:

OOL (ie: Standard Tier) users do not compete with Boost and/or Ultra users for Bandwidth. Standard Tier has its own exclusive channel - 603Mhz which is dedicated to ONLY users of that Tier.

Them AND every single cable box out there too.

jaa
Premium Member
join:2000-06-13

jaa

Premium Member

I don't see why they don't bond all 4 downstream channels, at least for Ultra users. All their modems can handle it, and why not add in the extra capacity it it is available?

The real answer is more downstream channels - can't wait until they start adding them. They could double their capacity by adding 4 more channels. Seems like a great solution to the congestion issue - if that really is the issue, and they want to resolve it.
TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA

1 edit

TheWiseGuy

MVM

The number of channels used for Internet reduces the number of channels for HD and SD Video channels, the bandwidth available for the RS DVR, the bandwidth available for PC-Link, for VOD and all their other services. Splitting a node actually increases the bandwidth available for all these services on a per person basis. So adding channels for Internet has to be weighted against other uses. It also requires more line cards and ports for IP, these have a cost too, though it has declined over time.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029 to jaa

Member

to jaa
said by jaa:

I don't see why they don't bond all 4 downstream channels, at least for Ultra users. All their modems can handle it, and why not add in the extra capacity it it is available?

The real answer is more downstream channels - can't wait until they start adding them. They could double their capacity by adding 4 more channels. Seems like a great solution to the congestion issue - if that really is the issue, and they want to resolve it.

I think they want to sort of want to leave some bandwidth dedicated to ultra and boost. This way their is one channelk for ultra that is only effected by other ultra users and they can tell theshould get atleast this much.
cablewizzard
join:2009-06-14
Woodbury, NY

cablewizzard to RARPSL

Member

to RARPSL
said by RARPSL:

said by cablewizzard:

Surely, that might mean that OOL subs might gain a lot on average, while Boost and Ultra (which had privileged channels exclusive to them up to now), might be looking at a decline of available bandwidth to them, as they are competing with OOL subs for bandwidth - but OOL+Boost subs are no longer able to monopolize channel bandwidth as easily.

OOL (ie: Standard Tier) users do not compete with Boost and/or Ultra users for Bandwidth. Standard Tier has its own exclusive channel - 603Mhz which is dedicated to ONLY users of that Tier.

if you had quoted the line JUST ABOVE that paragraph of mine, you would have noticed that I actually talked about the FUTURE - one where every service tier is provided by D3 modems, bonding on every available downstream channel.
said by RARPSL:

said by cablewizzard:

The exclusivity aspect will be gone - and I don't think that Boost subs (at only $10/month more, which includes other costly services like webhosting and vastly larger/more email boxes) were bringing in a proper return in exchange for that exclusivity (basically having an entire channel, 609Mhz, all to themselves).

They do not. They share 609Mhz with Ultra.

Again, you are mistaking my statements about past, present and future here: "the exclusivity aspect WILL be gone" (future tense) and "Boost subs WERE (not) bringing" (past tense) - the latter being a pretty speculative statement about the past up to the point where they started rolling out Ultra (May 2009).

Yes, as multiple other posters have posted from their modem status pages: 609 is in the bonding group for D3 downstream, so technically, you'll find OOL, Boost and Ultra subs with D3 modems utilizing it.
said by RARPSL:

...
BTW: There is nothing technically preventing the use of 615Mhz and/or 621Mhz by Standard or Boost D2 users. Just push their parms to use one of these Frequencies in lieu of 603Mhz or 609Mhz respectively.

That's called channel balancing, and that, to my knowledge, has never been in use at CV (as you don't see standard OOL users with D2 on anything but 603 or 687 Mhz, nor Boost users with D2 on anything but 609 Mhz) - as opposed to plenty of other MSOs I am aware of.

If OOL utilization really starts to hurt, or they increase DS channels by a significant number (say they DO go to 8), it'll make a lot of economic sense to implement (for D2). Think of it as traffic balancing for the poor man.

Even 4x4 D3 modems could be channel-balanced, if there's 2 bonding groups of 4 DS channels each - that'll make a lot of sense, actually, while 8x4 D3 modems would bond to all 8.

Frankly, any D3 modem customer who agonizes over whether their modem is 4x4 or 8x4, is purely paranoid and non-rational in the current situation. Kinda like worrying whether your tires are inflated to 32 or 32.1 PSI...