Topic 'Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....' in forum '' - dslreports.com

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:59:01 EDT

Mike Wolf posted : Oh give me a break you seriously want cable providers to switch to SDV? That's disagreeable.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:39:12 EDT

ElJay posted :

said by djrobx:

This feature will still increase traffic on the shared "last mile" of a cable ISP. Plus, I'm not sure cable companies are going to jump at a chance to do something that makes their own VOD offering look even more primitive.

It's 5mbps video... If Netflix wasn't so cheap they could stream this like any other video, like VUDU does. Instead Netflix wants their customers to start pestering their ISPs. They want more ISPs to join the OpenConnect program to lower the utilization of Netflix's own infrastructure. (Or rather, the infrastructure they lease from AWS. :))

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:10:25 EDT

Guspaz posted : It depends how deeply into the network you place the caching boxes. If you put them in every CO, for example, you'd only be increasing bandwidth usage on the DSLAM's uplink port, and saving bandwidth everywhere else on your network. There are probably some large ISPs that get enough traffic on a large CO to justify that kind of deployments, like in high population areas. But otherwise I wouldn't expect to see the appliances much below regional aggregation points, like a cableco POI.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:41:03 EDT

anon posted : WELL if you read what I wrote you would note that I wasn't necessarily talking about EXTERNAL bandwidth.. This will use a lot of INTERNAL bandwidth. When you use enough forget about performance on local links, which is still a linchpin of making money as an ISP. All the cable companies already use extensive caching at the head ends. But that still requires shared bandwidth from the headend to each individual customer. And something that doubles the requirements there will still cause major headaches. WITHOUT any way of paying for the increased demands...

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:14:45 EDT

MrRuckus8 posted : How about you start an ISP and give everyone a direct open 15-30mbps pipe and see how long you last... Last mile equipment costs big money just like anything else. ISP's are in the business of trying to stay in business and make some money. This cannot be done with your mentality and running a RESIDENTIAL service.

Since you are new here, how long have you been on the internet? Do you remember ISP's with Dialup lines? Most good ISP's had a modem to user ratio and sometimes advertised that number. I remember 8:1 and 10:1 which means they have 1 modem for every 8 or 10 customers. The same still applies, its just we're dealing with mbps now instead of Dialup modems.

NO ISP builds a network where EVERYONE has their pipe available to them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at full speed, if they did, they would be out on the street in days as its not a sustainable business. Residential service is not meant to be used in this manner. You want always on, always maxed speeds, feel free to hop on a business line and pay for it.
You may be one of the few on a lightly used residential node where you have your bandwidth available to you at all times, you should feel blessed in that case. Most people are not and nodes get hammered. ISP's do their best to keep the nodes free of congestion but it sometimes happens.

Expecting your connection speeds maxed all day everyday though is just not feasible on a RESIDENTIAL service. Business? Sure, and I would expect it. Residential? No. I work for a local ISP and know of no ISP that does what you expect on a residential service.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:05:21 EDT

34764170 posted :

said by elwoodblues:

It's not a rip off as much as it's protecting the revenue chain.

As an ISP you wan to ensure that your other properties perform well, thus keep low speeds and caps

no, it is a rip off. only sheep would try to rationalize it as anything else.

low caps yes. what fantasy world are you living in with low speeds?

anyway, we live in North America. full of sheep. willing to put up with expensive crappy service and like being ripped off.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:15:27 EDT

Guspaz posted : Except most of the biggest BDUs in Canada like Bell and Rogers are already onboard with OpenConnect. They realize that people are going to watch Netflix anyhow, and OpenConnect lets them save bandwidth. Which increases their profits. And they like that.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:16:36 EDT

NoHereNoMo posted : As a business selling a product you're obliged to actually deliver the product you're selling. Telling your customers that they're using the product more than some other customers and more than the company would prefer is in every way a rip-off. If a company sells some products that are in conflict with each other (per the company's view), that's certainly too bad--for the company (but that's not even unusual--companies have been offering "competing" products for as long as companies have existed so as to increase the customer base across the entire spectrum of the needs of all potential customers), but customers are in no way obliged to not use a product they've paid for. There are people who like to complain that so-and-so with 10 or a 100 times the usage of the "normal" customer is a burden in some way on every other customer and the network itself--which is ridiculous. Customers with higher usage primarily--and simply--use their connection when other customers aren't using theirs. How logical is that? ...to complain about someone using their connection when you aren't using yours--still ridiculous, only more so. Of course, they then complain that those other customers are using their connections when they--the complainers--are trying to use their connection, so clearly everyone else is always the "problem".

If a company wants to "protect" itself, then it should do a better job of serving its customers--all of its customers, by simply providing the product it's selling. Providing a better product wouldn't hurt either.
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"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:35:43 EDT

elwoodblues posted :

said by 34764170:

said by djrobx:

Oh well. That's what comes when people use their Internet connections. That's expected. Time for the ISPs to you know.. do their job instead of constantly trying to rip people off.

It's not a rip off as much as it's protecting the revenue chain.
When you are a broadcaster, distributor of broadcast and at the same time an internet provider, there is an inherent conflict of interest.

As a BDU, you don't want someone getting their fix somewhere else, and as the owner of the broadcaster you want them to watch your channel and you get all the money. As an ISP you wan to ensure that your other properties perform well, thus keep low speeds and caps
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:33:41 EDT

elwoodblues posted :

said by Guspaz:

Maybe you didn't actually read the article, where it's mentioned that only ISPs on OpenConnect can use the higher bandwidth services? OpenConnect is a combination of private peering directly with Netflix and caching hardware appliances. ISPs who implement these should see massive REDUCTIONS in external bandwidth consumption despite the higher bitrates.

But you'd know that if you'd actually read before astroturfing.

Don't expect that up here Guspaz, the BDU's don't take kindly to interloopers getting their nose into their broadcast business.
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 07:50:36 EDT

NoHereNoMo posted :

said by 34764170:

Time for the ISPs to ... do their job instead of constantly trying to rip people off.

Unfortunately, that would violate their mission statement.
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"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 02:30:09 EDT

Kearnstd posted : Cable at least can open up lots of bandwidth, Shunt all their TV feeds to SDV.

Netflix uses nothing compared to the amount of network bandwidth being wasted sending every single house on a node all the channels all the time.

if nobody is watching MTV there is no reason to send its stream out of the node.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Wed, 09 Jan 2013 02:26:02 EDT

34764170 posted :

said by anisp :

How about netflix releases the 2x compression algorithm that they are negotiating for?

So the picture can look crappier than it already is... no thanks.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 22:05:06 EDT

34764170 posted :

said by djrobx:

Oh well. That's what comes when people use their Internet connections. That's expected. Time for the ISPs to you know.. do their job instead of constantly trying to rip people off.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 22:02:56 EDT

34764170 posted :

said by dagg:

and providers are doing as much as they can to make sure customers connections are sitting idle as much as possible instead of customers actually using them.

and too many of the sheep go along with it too.

I am real. I wouldn't put up with this crap. I'm with an ISP that offers unlimited service.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:37:56 EDT

odreian615 posted : I didn't know Comcast was doing that. Glad I dumped them a while back

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:16:14 EDT

dagg posted : and providers are doing as much as they can to make sure customers connections are sitting idle as much as possible instead of customers actually using them.

why dont you get real instead?

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 20:26:29 EDT

34764170 posted : Customers are paying for their Internet connections to actually use them, not sit idle doing nothing. Get real.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:58:37 EDT

anon posted : Thank you. I was just about to start writing that.

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:53:07 EDT

djrobx posted :

said by Guspaz:

Re: Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:44:01 EDT

Guspaz posted : Maybe you didn't actually read the article, where it's mentioned that only ISPs on OpenConnect can use the higher bandwidth services? OpenConnect is a combination of private peering directly with Netflix and caching hardware appliances. ISPs who implement these should see massive REDUCTIONS in external bandwidth consumption despite the higher bitrates.

But you'd know that if you'd actually read before astroturfing.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Netflix, the great network moderator....

Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:49 EDT

anon posted : Gee, let's see, an ISP wants to sign up for their customers shredding 2x MORE bandwidth without any compensation? Their might be some competitive advantage over other ISP's but the destruction of capacity will more than nullify that...

How about netflix releases the 2x compression algorithm that they are negotiating for? OH, that's going to cost them money... hmmm guess that can wait...