Topic 'Do I need to replace this hot water heater?' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:50:09 EDT

LiVE4594 posted : Its small, our biggest room is only like 15x10, I have a 10 x 5 bathroom, 2 bedrooms, a kitchen, and a tiny closet. We had bought it in the hopes of building a bigger house on the hill behind the house or adding on to the front of this house, but then life got in the way of that plan.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sun, 02 Jun 2013 12:28:07 EDT

scooper posted : I do have to question about a 600 sq feet house - after all - that's only 20 feet by 30 feet - I have single rooms in my house that are that big...

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:29:07 EDT

cowboyro posted :

said by LiVE4594:

I was leaning more towards a tankless heater if we switched. Just trying to cut waste out where I can. :)

Do your math for the break-even first. Even if the gas tankless is slightly more efficient, the initial extra-cost may take longer to recoup than the life of the unit. Between extra plumbing costs and much higher heater cost, you're looking at an extra $1000 easily...

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:19:11 EDT

cowboyro posted : Unless the tank is poorly insulated, there is nothing wrong with it. Going down from 120gal to 40gal won't save you much. Standby losses for a water heater are very small. I measured my tank's (I use it as a bypassable hot water storage tank) and it came to about 1kWh/day - for the cheapest tank from HD. So you'd save about 1kWh/day going to a small tank if the insulation is the same. That's $3/month based on your rates. Do your math for the break-even.
Now if your tank fails then yes, you can go with a smaller one...

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:02:04 EDT

LiVE4594 posted : Thank you everyone for the advice. I'm going to do the energy audit and see what they suggest as well. I'm going to do the meter thing in the next day or so and see what happens with that and then I'll borrow a meter from work and see what I can discover with that.

Love this community!

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 22:57:44 EDT

LiVE4594 posted :

said by EGeezer:

Is the Fuzzy Duck still in business?

Lol, ya. Glad to see I'm not the only one from this neck of the woods!

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 21:21:47 EDT

cb14 posted : I average about 400 kWh/ month in my house and I have no propane or natural gas.
Keeping 120gallons warm in cold weather costs a lot of energy indeed. You should consider an instant heater. You will get hotter water and save a lot at the same time.
If your fridge is from the nineties, you may want to replace it, but it will be not the huge power hog, just one of the many culprits.
Check your light bulbs, get rid off incandescent, get LED or fluorescent. saves real money.
If you have air conditioning shut it down. get fans, ceiling fans and open the windows.
If you use electricity for heating that can really blow the budget.
Unplug everything what you do not use. Put computers, chargers, adapters, gateways , TV's etc etc on a power strip and shut it down.
get savvy. Do you bake? Make one baking day and bake everything with one heated up oven one load after the other.
No long showers. No open doors fridge/freezer.
And a zillion of other things which can be done.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 20:46:15 EDT

ArgMeMatey posted :

said by robbin:

My point was this could be an advantage. Yes, they may need a special meter or they could just install a timer so it only operates during off-peak hours. Even if it isn't applicable at present it could be in a few years.

That's a good point if the OP can use Duke's Rate TD.

Winter on-peak is 0900 to 1400 hrs. and 1700 to 2100.
Summer is 1100 to 2000 hrs.

TD rates are
On Peak
$0.051494 per kWh Summer
$0.040919 per kWh Winter
(Can peak rates really be this low? Am I missing something?)

Off Peak
$0.008983 per kWh Summer
$0.008976 per kWh Winter

So the way to go would be to keep the 120-gallon heater, get the timer set so it stays off during peak hours, crank up the stat so it runs hot during off-peak hours, and install a tempering valve.

No idea if this would be cheaper than gas, but I would figure out the capital costs to make that change. I'm betting sticking with the electric and time of use could save money.

But I pay $0.14 per kWh so it looks like I could save plenty of money by moving to Duke territory even if I had to buy power on the peak rate.

»www.duke-energy.com/pdfs ··· 1%29.pdf
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Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 18:37:32 EDT

robbin posted : My point was this could be an advantage. Yes, they may need a special meter or they could just install a timer so it only operates during off-peak hours. Even if it isn't applicable at present it could be in a few years.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 18:33:21 EDT

tschmidt posted :

said by robbin:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned has to do with the way your electric company bills.

If that is the case then having such a large tank is an advantage. PSNH here in NH offers special lower rate for water heating if they are allowed to turn off power during peak demand, or there is another rate where a timer only operates the heater at night.

However for that to work the OP would need a separate water heating meter, I did not get the impression that was the case. Even without the special off peak rate our utility offers a lower rate for water heating so we have two electric meters.

/tom

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 18:28:05 EDT

robbin posted : One thing that hasn't been mentioned has to do with the way your electric company bills. Utilities are more and more going to time of day billing so that electricity costs more during peak times. Whether or not your utility has already made this change, it may do so in the future. The size of your water heater should allow you to heat water at off peak rates. If this is not a benefit at present it very well may be in the future when that type of billing is implemented.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 18:24:55 EDT

54067323 posted :

said by LiVE4594:

If we went gas it would be natural gas.

If you have natural gas available, I would recommend you contact the provider and discuss changing over, many NG providers are offering some rather nice perks to get potential customers to switch from electric to NG and you will save money long term doing so.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 18:19:07 EDT

stevek1949 posted : The problem may be that you are using a hotwater heater! You don't need to heat hot water! Replace it with a cold water heater and you should be good to go!

Just kidding. saying "hot water heater" is one of my hot buttons. :D

A 120 gallon tank is a heck of a tank. But when the daughter turns into a teenager, you may need it!

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 16:31:22 EDT

tschmidt posted :

said by robbin:

That appears to be a very well made commercial water heater. According to company literature it doesn't have an anode rod as it is not needed.

»www.vaughncorp.com/pdf/H ··· tone.pdf

Need model # to double check - looks like they are foam insulated so very low standby loss. Agree very high quality unit.

You are not going to find a tankless electric water heater, the instantaneous power requirements are astronomical. If you decide to go with natural gas check into replacing stove and dryer.

Something else to check is water heater thermostat setting. For safety and minimum energy use (standby loss) should be set to 120F. If you are concerned about legionnaires disease set it to 140F and install a tempering valve.

/tom

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 15:52:44 EDT

EGeezer posted : You might also check to see if the comparable homes use low-flow shower heads and more efficient washing machines. If you're doing two loads a day with three people, are you doing full loads with hot water only? We were able to cut several hundred gallons a month by only doing full loads and using warm/cool wash/rinse settings.

You've already checked for leaky faucets and pipes, so that's not an issue.

I see you're in Ironton (Or as we from Appalachia say, "Arnt'n". If that's the case I believe AEP (formerly Ohio Power) offers a cheap ($25 or $50) home energy audit with rebates on stuff you may install as a result of the audit.

»aepohio.com/save/program ··· ?ctype=h

Is the Fuzzy Duck still in business?
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Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 15:45:46 EDT

wssddc posted : The comparisons you get from your electric company are not very useful because you don't know what they are comparing against. For example, your neighbors with lower electric usage may have gas water heaters.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 15:16:37 EDT

robbin posted :

said by tschmidt:

Given its age want to think about changing the anode rods. They prevent tank corrosion lengthening tank life.

That appears to be a very well made commercial water heater. According to company literature it doesn't have an anode rod as it is not needed.

"Hydrastone Lining - A seamless one-half inch thick lining which has proven to be the most effective method of preventing tank failure due to corrosion.

Bronze Fittings at all tappings eliminates corrosion due to dissimilar metals. No dielectric unions or anode rod required."

I would not replace this water heater. A water heater like this will last many years and is worth repairing rather than replacing. Not to mention the fact that labor to replace it will be rather expensive with it's 450 pound weight.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 14:22:08 EDT

Hall posted :

said by LiVE4594:

I was just thinking it could also be the fridge...

Others can help out with more details, but right now, go to your electric meter and count the # of revolutions it makes in 30 seconds or 60 seconds (shouldn't matter - can extrapolate). Now, unplug your fridge and count the # of revolutions. Post the numbers here.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 13:48:08 EDT

mityfowl posted :

said by LiVE4594:

Couple of clarifications...

If we went gas it would be natural gas.

It's a single family home with just 3 of us there. Typically we take 2 showers, wash a few plates and do 2 loads of laundry per day.

I checked for leaks and our water bill is pretty steady.

I was leaning more towards a tankless heater if we switched. Just trying to cut waste out where I can. :)

The only reason to NOT go gas for you is the basic delivery fee.

Here in Dallas it's now $17/month which I think is outrageous. Basically we went from $7/mo to $17/mo.

So if you're bills are like here I don't think gas would ever save you money on just a water heater.

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 13:10:25 EDT

LiVE4594 posted : I was just thinking it could also be the fridge, its as old if not older than the hotwater heater and the control knob for temp doesnt seem to work well, freezes all of our juice and waters. :)

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 13:07:18 EDT

LiVE4594 posted : Couple of clarifications...

If we went gas it would be natural gas.

It's a single family home with just 3 of us there. Typically we take 2 showers, wash a few plates and do 2 loads of laundry per day.

I checked for leaks and our water bill is pretty steady.

I was leaning more towards a tankless heater if we switched. Just trying to cut waste out where I can. :)

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 12:54:42 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : How to figure Volts-Amps-Watts for residential water heater

posted only one element is on at a time. The lower element is normally used. The upper elements kicks in if tank temperature is low to heat water at the top of the tank as it is being drawn. Cold water enters the bottom of the tank though a dip tube and hot water is drawn off the top.

How is the tank insulated? If it has 2 or 3" of foam standby losses are pretty low. Adding a additional insulting blanket can't hurt. Given its age want to think about changing the anode rods. They prevent tank corrosion lengthening tank life.

»www.waterheaterrescue.com/

If you decide to replace it see if you have 30 amp feed for faster recovery and go with a 50-ish gallon tank.

35 - 50 kwh per day does seem high. Is this a single family or duplex? If it is a duplex could you be supplying power to another unit?

If you are comfortable opening the breaker panel I'd get a clamp on ammeter and record the amount of current for each circuit. Kill-a-watt meter is great but it only works on 120v plug in devices.

Record current at different times of day and see if you notice any anomalies. Even relatively small loads if they are on 24/7 can add up to a lot of power.

/tom

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 12:18:30 EDT

scooper posted : That's one monstrous hot water tank -

If there is nothing wrong with it (not leaking, both heating elements working) - I'd consider putting some waterheater blankets around it.

If it does need replaced - then yes, go with a 40 -50 gallon electric, or a 40 gallon gas (if your gas is propane - it's probably cheaper to use electric).

Re: Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:45:54 EDT

MrFixit1 posted : Surprised to see a 120 gal water heater in a home , but it seems that Vaughn still makes them .

Normal setup on water heaters is to only use 1 element at a time , that is why you can see 2 3800 watt elements in a heater only rated at 3800 watts .

Size of the tank does not directly correlate to the amount of energy required to recover and hold temp . It will take the same amount of energy to raise X gallons X degrees no matter the size of the tank .
This is NOT to say that a larger tank may not loose heat to the outside faster than a small tank:) A small tank can be much easier to insulate well , and that could result in less energy usage .

Have you checked to see if you ar leaking hot water anywhere?

May also want to check and see if your electric utility has a free energy audit program .

Do I need to replace this hot water heater?

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:01:39 EDT

LiVE4594 posted : I get those electric comparisons every month showing how our electric bill is so much higher than our neighbors and I started looking in to it.

I started looking in to what could be causing this and aside from our ac units, the only real drain I could find is possibly our hotwater heater.

It's a 17 yr old Vaughn, it was a rental unit that we bought when we moved in 8 years ago. It's a 120 gallon tank and says 3800 total watts although it does say 3800watt upper and 3800 lower heating elements. There are only 3 of us in this house with one bathroom,m 2 adults and our 12yr old daughter.

I was looking on home depot and they recommend a 40 gallon tank. I would imagine that a 120 gallon tanks takes more energy to recover and keep water hot. Am I wasting a large amount of money here?

Our electric usage last month was 1,077 KWH and we average 1553 KWH but we do use plug in heaters during the winter.

We do have an option for gas too, but we don't use it for anything currently. It's actually disconnected because we never used it.

This is a small house, only 600sqft.

Thoughts?