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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-3 9:19 am
Freezing problemsWe have Uverse for about 2 years. We have had problem off and on but in the past they have been fixed. This time we have experienced a prolonged problem. We have had 4-5 techs out over the past 2 months. Though they have found and fixed problems, the symptoms still persist. Things they found and fixed: - Due to our distance from the connection, we have 2 lines coming in. One was down and we were operating at 97% (fixed - both lines are back up) - At our house, the setup was incorrect such that the power was attached at the wrong line (I am paraphrasing - not sure the correct wording) In addition, the replaced our att "boxes" (things connected to the TV) in the house with newer hardware. The above may have lessened the frequency of the problems but the problems still persist. The UV realtime stats have changed sine these changes were made as we had previously had link retrains and training errors (or maybe training timeouts). What seemed to make more of a difference was when my husband connected the power to the external box to a battery backup theorizing that we were getting inconsistent power (spikes, high/low). The problems are intermittent and thus far we have not found a correlation in the outages though I do seem to see corrected blocks reported after the problem occurs. When the problem occur we see both TV and internet problems. This occurs approximately 2-5 times an hour. |
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 TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
TestBoy
Premium Member
2013-Sep-3 10:10 am
You have an iNID. (box on the outside of your hose)
That already has a battery backup. (the white box)
I would imagine that using the UPS and having the problem go away is more of a red herring.
Those stats are from the last day and a half, has it happened since the stats were reset or the iNID rebooted?
How are the set top boxes connected? coax or Ethernet?
I am going to guess coax and that could be where the issue is. |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-3 10:30 am
The STB's are connected via coax. I have tried to connect them via cat5 but that does not improve the situation.
The white box with the battery backup does not have a battery in it ... thus the reason I put it on an UPS (I was guessing this was because we didn't use Uverse for phone).
Those stats are after the iNID reboot ... we have rebooted several times and things have been the same. |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
TestBoy
Premium Member
2013-Sep-3 10:37 am
said by Jennifer L :The STB's are connected via coax. I have tried to connect them via cat5 but that does not improve the situation.
The white box with the battery backup does not have a battery in it ... thus the reason I put it on an UPS (I was guessing this was because we didn't use Uverse for phone).
Those stats are after the iNID reboot ... we have rebooted several times and things have been the same.
No battery? that's strange. They gave me one... but since don't have phone they don't give you the battery. I don't have phone either but hey... I would have probably stuffed a battery in it myself just because we get a lot of storms and all the computers in the house have a UPS, etc. Is there a network interface between the iNID and the drop? That was how they first set me up and it was troublesome so we deleted the NID and used the iNID straight. |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-3 10:48 am
Nope there is no network interface between the inid units (the outside box) and the 2wire i3812v (router). |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
to Jennifer L
You have a couple of dips in the bitloading graph that seem more prevalent on line 1 than on line 2. do you have any radio stations nearby?
How is the grounding on the iNID?
(hopefully someone thinks of something I am missing.. since i'm almost fresh out) |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-3 11:21 am
Nope no radio stations. I am guessing that the grounding is OK as it looks ok at the UPS (light says OK) I haven't phyiscally, check nor would I know how ... not an electrician.
I haven't been able to find anything that correlates with when the problem occurs (AC, Fan, Furnace).
When it goes out it usually lasts about 1 min. Freezes (10 seconds), OK for 5 seconds, Freezes (10 seconds), OK for 3 seconds, Freezes (20 seconds) then will either come back or Blue Screen. |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
TestBoy
Premium Member
2013-Sep-3 11:36 am
said by Jennifer L :Nope no radio stations. I am guessing that the grounding is OK as it looks ok at the UPS (light says OK) I haven't phyiscally, check nor would I know how ... not an electrician.
I haven't been able to find anything that correlates with when the problem occurs (AC, Fan, Furnace).
When it goes out it usually lasts about 1 min. Freezes (10 seconds), OK for 5 seconds, Freezes (10 seconds), OK for 3 seconds, Freezes (20 seconds) then will either come back or Blue Screen.
Outside where the iNID is there is a ground. This should be grounded using the nearest earth ground. That box needs to have a good ground, especially at your loop length. It's possible that over time this ground has become oxidized and will need to be cleaned up. |
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Ignorant of uverse TV but: That error table is too clean (IMO) for problem you describe; "appears" as if TV data issues are not being logged whatsoever in the "DSL error table" (except in worst-case events of link goes down totally or so bad as to retrain)?? Or your line (TV included) was mysteriously "good" for those last 35 hours?
Begs the question: If "DSL error table" doesn't log it, shouldn't there be a separate error table specific to just TV traffic?
And your internet use may be light enough not to have much traffic to generate recordable "DSL errors" during the TV events (during those specific last 35 hours).
If so, you could use the dslreports Tools/smokeping to generate a day or two of ping history (from external to your RG, disable block-ping 1st) which I hope would have good chance to chart/record packet-loss or high-pings during the TV events.
(But then what?: Post in direct forum. Can ask them to remove iNID and upgrade your RG to NVG589, but if problem is not mainly a poor iNID, this won't fix it). |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
to Jennifer L
MY first thought was that the TV freezing was an HPNA issue because there are no CRCs but freezing on Ethernet too is a bit odd, yes.. based on this error table. |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-4 10:50 am
Just as an update. I took a look at the ground and it was connected, but not securely (yet another issue 5 techs couldn't find). I cleaned off the contacts and tightened it down. The errors have dropped off even more ... but I am still having freezes.
In addition, I moved off the coax completely (unplugging it in the house before the splitter). Still no joy. |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
to Jennifer L
Something is getting missed...
My experience with CRCs is that they don't cause a freeze unless it's really bad.
For example.. last night there was a little audio glitch when watching TV.
I looked at the error table on the gateway and I had 3 CRCs.. no big deal and here we are more than 12 hours later with no CRCs since then.
I would think that freezing completely it's just getting nothing at all and the
CRCs should be thru the roof, lines dropping sync, etc.
Do all receivers freeze at the same time? |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-4 12:05 pm
Yep everything freezes ... computer/internet, all tv's (wired and wireless ... or even coax), IP phone. |
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TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC |
to Jennifer L
The only thing I can think of is the iNID glitching in some crazy way.
Perhaps you can get a tech out and replace the iNID with the new NVG589? |
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my thoughts to Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-4 12:27 pm
to Jennifer L
You are seeing interference from two radio stations around 980 am and 1290 am. Should not cause issue described but would account for FEC.
Total agg is 51, if poor connection(s) on either would expect your issue.
Connections are jumer at SAI, all outside plant (dirty open would yield large errors intermittently),
Connections at serving terminal, connections at INID both drop and filter (green/red) plus rj14 jack pins inid.
Is drop aerial or buried, on buried groundig at terminal and inid..
More noticeable on windy days (aerial) or rainy (aerial and buried)?
Agree if issue is inid or at inid swap to 589 would solve otherwise swap just eliminating possible suspect..
As this is or is becoming a frequent repeat issue the 589 swap is next logical step. |
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Is the phone uverse voice, or your own ATA? Are there any switches (or routers in bridge-mode...) shared by STB's and your other internet devices (i.e. each 2wire LAN port should exclusively drive only TV boxes, or non-TV devices; unless you get certain specific switches).
UV Realtime has a StreamAnalyzer feature (as in TV streams I think), but I don't see much traffic about it here lately.
If it were just TV, might suspect an incompatible FW combo between RG, DVR, and other STB's. Rumored factory reset (a pain to reconfig) of RG sometimes may get it to update FW (haven't seen it myself, don't know if newer is available for your i3812v). |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-4 5:59 pm
To answer a couple of the questions. The iNID has been replaced twice now. The router was plugged into a switch (... I have now removed the switch from the mix).
Currently, I have one STB (plugged directly into the router), one computer (plugged directly into the router) and my OOMA (plugged directly into the router) ... nothing else (well, some wireless ... traffic 3 other devices). Corrected blocks is now down to 950 in 23 hours.
I am going to see how that works. |
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| Jennifer L |
Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-5 11:19 am
OK, only had 2 freezes last night. With 1 STB, 1 Computer and OOMA (phone) connected directly to the router (all via eithernet).
Interesting ... I can tell you that one of the freezes occurred when my wife logged into her computer. No corrected block errors (or others) showed up during the freeze. I am going to try a different computer on the network (to isolate that out of the equation).
Now it makes me think that it might be the i38 Router |
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 StillLearn
Premium Member
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL |
said by Jennifer L :Interesting ... I can tell you that one of the freezes occurred when my wife logged into her computer. No corrected block errors (or others) showed up during the freeze. I am going to try a different computer on the network (to isolate that out of the equation).
I wonder if the problem is that the computer OS, or something opened right away such as a browser, wasn't automatically downloading updates at a high rate-- consuming a disproportionate share of the available bandwidth. You would think that the router would be able to reserve bandwidth for the TV. |
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Say the line were perfect (FTTP even), could bufferbloat ALONE lead to such symptoms (design limitation of a properly working RG)?? Can search forum for old posts, but kind of recommend mid-stream of this thread: » Re: Terrible latency on uplinkWould be sad, since NVG589 appears to have extensive built-in queuing and QoS stuff, plus at higher upload tier bufferbloat supposed to be less of an issue, and really: can it affect TV even? Not to mention requires something to saturate your uplink with traffic (on login to wife's computer, perhaps cloud backup kicks in: big upload, tanking everyone else's bigger downloads). But is purported to be controllable at least. Near RG's DSL error table, should be plain IP Statistics: total bytes and packets transmitted versus received, via which you could watch for a jump in uplink traffic. |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-9 7:59 pm
Sorry it took so long to get back to this, I am pretty sure I have identified the cause but not the solution. One of the PC's that we have is running Windows 8 Pro (wired). If I remove it from the network the problem goes away. I figured it was probably a bad NIC, so I plugged it and plugged in a USB wireless N ... guess what same problem. Now I am very confused.
If it was windows 8 ... I would think there would be many people with this problem :-( |
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| Jennifer L |
Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-9 8:02 pm
Corrected ...
Sorry it took so long to get back to this, I am pretty sure I have identified the cause but not the solution. One of the PC's that we have is running Windows 8 Pro (wired). If I remove it from the network the problem goes away. I figured it was probably a bad NIC, so I unplugged it and plugged in a USB wireless N ... guess what same problem. Now I am very confused.
If it was windows 8 ... I would think there would be many people with this problem :-( |
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 gadawg
join:2006-01-27
Louisville, KY |
gadawg
Member
2013-Sep-9 8:09 pm
Has the line from the VRAD to your house been checked? We were having issues of everything freezing regulary. The outside line tech switched our port at the VRAD and rebooted the whole neighborhood. No problems since then. |
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StillLearn
Premium Member
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL |
to Jennifer L
Somebody may have installed a P2P program on that computer that is serving up something. Or the computer could have a virus acting as a server. |
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Is your (public) IP part of a botnet (albeit according to one company's - Dell - incomplete list): » botnet.global.sonicwall.com/view(Sorry, mistakenly thought you already upgraded to NVG589). If you had your own router (behind RG) with modern, good QoS features, it could limit/cap bandwidth up/down used by specific machines. That would be a bandaid only to limit the damage (while you address the true problem). |
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Jennifer L
Anon
2013-Sep-10 8:12 am
OK, I got the freezes to stop. I turned off the weather, mail, and calendar tiles (in Windows 8).
Not sure what is going on in the background that is causing the traffic but that seems to have stopped the freezes. |
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 trparkyCYA! I'm gone!
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH |
trparky
Premium Member
2013-Sep-10 10:31 am
I wonder if you're running into the NAT limit of the gateway. |
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Paralel
Member
2013-Sep-10 10:35 am
said by trparky:I wonder if you're running into the NAT limit of the gateway. You think those background processes were being that verbose? |
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trparkyCYA! I'm gone!
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH |
trparky
Premium Member
2013-Sep-10 11:26 am
How many other computers does this person have? Are they all online at the same time? That's the question we have here.
The gateway has a NAT limit of 1024 pinholes, that's not all that much when you start having multiple computers online at the same time and they are all doing something online in terms get requesting and fetching data. |
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Somewhere in the RG pages, it should show a NAT table, or count of usage?
Another reason to upgrade to the NVG589 (8X larger limit). |
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