Topic 'Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?' in forum 'Shaw' - dslreports.com

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 14:43:12 EDT

kevinds posted : My brother had a 100/10 modem, mine are only 100/5... Had to try haha

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 12:24:26 EDT

corbin posted :

said by kevinds:

I noticed the modems won't lock-up on the wrong RF node either... No longer able to grab your modem and go to a friends

True.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 10:12:02 EDT

kevinds posted : I noticed the modems won't lock-up on the wrong RF node either... No longer able to grab your modem and go to a friends
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 01:54:56 EDT

S1L1K0N posted : I guess it depends on what department you work in. Network Services considers DOCSIS = Internet and Phone/SDP=Telephony. Regardless, even w/ convergence, there is no Internet specific 256 QAM carriers on FTTP nodes; only TV (Broadcast), VOD (SOD) and Phone (SDP). DOCSIS Internet cable modems will NOT lock up on FTTP nodes, regardless of GPON or EPON as there is no RF carrier for them.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:35:12 EDT

corbin posted :

said by S1L1K0N:

For our GPON and EPON nodes there is no DOCSIS narrowcast services.

That isn't quite correct. DOCSIS is present for telephony and some set top signaling at this time.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:36:14 EDT

S1L1K0N posted : Kevin, you are correct. The services that you mention (VOD and Telephony) are called 'narrowcast' because their signal origination is at the regional hubsite; the TV services we call 'broadcast' because we acquire and combine them at a primary hubsite where they get redistributed to the regional hubsites. For our GPON and EPON nodes there is no DOCSIS narrowcast services.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:55:55 EDT

corbin posted : Sending only what is required is more cost effective. :)

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:37:13 EDT

kevinds posted : Would that then mean it isn't a complete copy of the RF system? Only parts of it? -6 or 8 downsteam QAMs left off and the 4 upload for the internet?

Not that it matters
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:23:36 EDT

corbin posted :

said by kevinds:

On a busy node, you could plug a DPC3825 into your own mini-node and still have congestion lol

Not on our system Kevin, since we're only doing TV and Phone on RFoG. But on a provider doing data via RFoG? It's possible.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 18 Sep 2013 10:21:21 EDT

S1L1K0N posted : The ONU is the device which converts the RFoG wavelength to RF and vice-versa. The ONT is the 'fiber' modem; it converts EPON to Ethernet and vice-versa.

The Fiber to the Premise (FTTP) nodes have a dedicated chassis for Internet services. There is no DOCSIS (Internet) signalling on the ONU as the EPON service runs over it's own wavelength (optical channel) through the ONU and drops out to the ONT. Each FTTP node has it's own GbE uplink to the Internet, where as the uBR DOCSIS Internet chassis are either fed with 2 or 4 GbEs, except in larger markets where they have a 10GbE uplink; but this bandwidth is shared accross the entire chassis.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 01:07:32 EDT

kevinds posted : Thats what I thought, but wanted to confirm.

On a busy node, you could plug a DPC3825 into your own mini-node and still have congestion lol
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 22:32:57 EDT

corbin posted : yyzlhr is correct. The RFoG ONU is used only for Phone and Television (in Shaw's implementation). The data comes off the EPON/GPON ONU.

Anonimuz is not quite correct. The DS/US signal space is still shared.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:54:46 EDT

yyzlhr posted :

said by kevinds:

If it is just a copy of the RF signal,

Would it not have the same internet congestion issues?

Yes, a lot of cable providers like Rogers are using these to deploy fibre straight to the home in the interim. This type of deployment allows them to use the same DOCSIS CPE and provisioning equipment. This basically only allows them to offer the same services they would offer over a traditional HFC setup, but it saves the provider money. It also allows them to convert the setup into a true PON based setup when they need to.

Based on the pictures posted here it looks like shaw only uses the media converter for telephony and video. Internet traffic goes through an ONT.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:36:38 EDT

Anonimuz posted : It would be similar to having a node just for your house. Congestion occurs when too many subs are on one node.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:22:11 EDT

kevinds posted : If it is just a copy of the RF signal,

Would it not have the same internet congestion issues?
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:46:26 EDT

kevinds posted : If corbin says it, it is most likely correct

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Sat, 14 Sep 2013 23:55:20 EDT

18286719 posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

said by stolen:

Connor M, you seem to be under the mistaken assumption that EPON = ACTIVE E. That could not be further from the truth.

Absolutely correct. EPON(Ethernet Passive Optical Network) != AE(Active Ethernet).

Connor M - EPON uses an optical splitter architecture. AE does NOT.

thanks for clearing that up, i hope you are correct cause i guess ill just take your word for it
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Sat, 14 Sep 2013 21:02:58 EDT

corbin posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

said by kevinds:

I wonder if that "mini-node" can be changed to output the non-encrypted digital (HD) channels... Humm....

The "mini-node" simply converts the RFoG signal to RF. It has no "brains" at all. It simply outputs an RF copy of the signal sent in to it's counterpart at the head end.

That's right. It converts an analog optical signal to an analog RF signal. It's a pure analog media-converter.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Sat, 14 Sep 2013 17:48:57 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by kevinds:

I wonder if that "mini-node" can be changed to output the non-encrypted digital (HD) channels... Humm....

The "mini-node" simply converts the RFoG signal to RF. It has no "brains" at all. It simply outputs an RF copy of the signal sent in to it's counterpart at the head end.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:49:00 EDT

kevinds posted : I wonder if that "mini-node" can be changed to output the non-encrypted digital (HD) channels... Humm....
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:49:34 EDT

18286719 posted : that is cool, and i called shaw FTTP today and the guy barely knew what he was talking about but he did say he thought it was epon, i guess i the one shaw employee provided me with the wrong info, thats honestly amazing shaw has tech support people with such lack of understanding of the tech, owell
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:36:21 EDT

corbin posted : It will look the same, except the ONU is from Arris or Aurora.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:18:25 EDT

18286719 posted : yes i am, thank you, now we just need to wait for the user who was posting about the fiber to post photo's, i wish there was already some photo's up of a shaw epon setup

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:14:14 EDT

corbin posted : I'll let Shaw_Alex know and he can likely ask that question.

Are you satisfied now though? :)

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:06:05 EDT

18286719 posted : ? why do the fttp team say otherwise?
i guess ill call shaw again and see what they say

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:59:05 EDT

corbin posted : I've registered an account to match my Shaw Community account.
Here is my profile there: »community.shaw.ca/people/corbin
Shaw_Alex can verify if you want to PM him.
I work for Shaw Engineering in the same group as the folks who do our PON services. My own speciality is CMTS.

Residential = EPON.
Shaw Business = GPON.

It's great to see so much excitement. Have a great day everyone!

Note: All opinions expressed are my own, and not necessarily that of my employer.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:57:48 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by stolen:

Connor M, you seem to be under the mistaken assumption that EPON = ACTIVE E. That could not be further from the truth.

Absolutely correct. EPON(Ethernet Passive Optical Network) != AE(Active Ethernet).

Connor M - EPON uses an optical splitter architecture. AE does NOT.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:37:24 EDT

18286719 posted : lol im not even arguing anymore. i already called shaw fttp team and they said everything is and will be GPON but some people have decided to argue with that so i have been trying to get some legitimate evidence of why users thought shaw was using EPON for residential and thought that may have been shaws initial plan or idea, it is not anymore, simple as that, as far as im concerned EPON is active e, its the same thing, not gonna even bother arguing with u. and i dont get what ur trying to prove as i have already proven and stated shaw uses gpon like 10 times, i also said in an above post that i never said shaw does not use EPON, i said they are not using it for residential, and they arent, even tho they may have before.
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:28:49 EDT

stolen posted : Connor M, you seem to be under the mistaken assumption that EPON = ACTIVE E. That could not be further from the truth. PON = passive optical network. EPON = Ethernet Passive Optical Network. Active Ethernet (by definition) cannot be passive. Instead of a passive optical splitter, it uses an active optical switch.
EPON is extremely similar to GPON both in architecture (one fiber fed to a passive fiber splitter, the split fibers are fed to homes) and cost. I don't see anyone here arguing that Shaw is using Active E, there's only quibbling about which PON architecture is being used, GPON vs EPON.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:22:26 EDT

18286719 posted : you make it sound like im not willing to change my opinion, which i am, i just wanted some proof and it seems stolen has actually done that for me which has help shed some light about why other users were thinking shaw is on epon, but that doesnt make them right saying all business shaw is gpon and the residential is epon, like ravenchilde said in another post, that was the main logic i was arguing with

"That is a business GPON install. The residential service would be EPON.". -ravenchilde

so just to clarify that statement was not true.

now what stolen posted obviously shows shaw did have some intention of using residential gpon for there fiber trials, but i believe that was an initial mistake of shaw thinking they were doing the right thing when it was not financially correct, and that info on epon, is over 2 years old back when shaw only had 4 FTTP locations, so i do realize its possible for those to have epon, all im trying to clarify and make sure people understand now is that any future shaw residential setup with fiber will all be on gpon from now on, is that really that hard to agree with?

115 a month times 64, i think shaw would rather make $7360 a month for 1 fiber then making $115 like epon would, and i believe thats why the fiber was free initially, then when they probably charging after 6 months, no one wanted to pay the 200 a month they could have been askign, so they switched to gpon and made it 115 a month

when/if epon installs were ever done shaw probably didnt have money involed they just wanted to try new tech and get it workin, still 0 pictures of a shaw fiber epon install and a bunch of residential GPON, i suspect another contributing reason to them starting with epon was that was probably what they used to use for high quality business customers wanting fiber so it was easier just to switch it over to home users instead of immediately jumping to the gpon plateform
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:36:10 EDT

stolen posted : One of shaw's employees responded to queries on digital home when gigabit was first launched 2 years ago.
Here's what he said, including some pictures:
»www.digitalhome.ca/forum ··· count=45
FYI, this was found by searching "shaw epon" in google and it was the first link (though I've provided the link to the exact post, while google had the text only page).

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:30:37 EDT

rotohoto posted : Ok....

He says there are cost savings with GPON... which there are assuming you are geared to handle the rollout. He also mentions there are advantages to EPON and services you can deliver with it that you just can't with GPON... that's also true.

So that's how o-net is doing things... You're assuming Shaw has made the exact same decisions in every test market they are doing fiber in?

I know for a fact there are residential EPON installs in the US, as I've had face to face conversations with the people responsible for planning and rolling them out.
It's really not that much of a stretch for me to think that Shaw may have some out there, regardless of what their plan may be going forward.

You're not in a position to conclusively say Shaw doesn't have any residential EPON, yet once again you have no problem using questionable logic to connect the dots on subjects you don't understand, and speak as though you are.

We should probably just let this thread die... I can only see it going further off the rails from here.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:45:00 EDT

18286719 posted : here is another video which has parts where o net talks about active e (EPON) and GPON

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· WJN80ZkQ

Start listening at 2:05, and pay attention, mainly to where he said that obviously there is a cost savings with gpon and also where he sais that active e is only for business customers.
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:04:47 EDT

18286719 posted : if you think residential connections actually have epon i dont even knwo what to say, i will explain in detail later when i have time, right now i dont feel like going into why epon will only ever be for business customers.... all i gotta say is go lookup o net in alberta and tell me why there business gpon is 100/5 for $100 a month, and there business epon is 1gbps and its about $5000 a month, when the same company gives residential users 1gbps up and down for 100 a month, the reason they give the business users 100/5 and make them pay for a dedicated conneciton instead of a gig, is because GPON is shared, 2.4gbps to 64 users, so a BUSINESS GPON CONNECTION CAN NOT GARAUNTEE 1gbps up and down at all times, a EPON connection can, therefor it is worth more money

also ravenchilde, plz do explain wether u believe that shaw residential fiber connections are GPON or not, because robohoto made a smart as comment implying even tho all new shaw residential shaw FTTP connections are GPON, your still sayin to me in private messages, that "shaw still uses EPON" but your to vauge to understand, so explain here, do u think they use epon with special business connections like i have already stated, or are you actually still argueing they use EPON in residential connections and will continue to, like you had implied in your first post, cause anyone can realize your wrong about that with a phone call, the only arguement u have here is that some initial shaw FTTP places were not epon because that is the only thing i can not prove tho im 99% sure they were not i cant prove it
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:42:54 EDT

rotohoto posted : Confirmed correct as per the first level support personnel who man the phones, and get to talk to people like you.

But you're right.
I'm sure that call centre employee has first hand knowledge of every single Shaw residential fiber installation in western Canada. Every last one.

Also, it's completely impossible that they may have deployments of both in different areas as it's still "under testing".
But like I said, I'm sure that guy on the phone has personally audited every last install site in Canada, and he's not just going off what he's been told (which may very well be, GPON only going forward)

said by 18286719:

i actually state facts about shaws fiber service that i kno and have confirmed correct

Let's be clear. You don't "kno" anything.
You were told something on the phone which contradicts what you read in this thread. That's it.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:26:47 EDT

18286719 posted : nvm
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:23:08 EDT

rotohoto posted :

said by 18286719:

? u act like spreading incorrect info is a good thing? u got nothin to say to back up your random claims do u

This coming from you of all people? Pot/kettle much?

There are some people on this forum who skim a wikipedia article for 5 minutes and then feel qualified to speak on a topic as if they were an expert.
Then there are some who actually have a deep understanding of the tech, as they work with it day in and day out in the real world.
For anyone paying attention it's pretty easy to spot who is who.

As far as why they chose to do 1gbps down 50mbps up... one possible reason is peering and transit agreements.
When those are drawn up, there is language in the agreement pertaining to traffic ratios.

If they start handing out symmetrical high bandwidth pipes left right and centre, those ratios could get thrown out of whack in a real hurry.

I'd imagine they also don't want anyone trying to run hosted services off their residential connection. There's any number of plausible reasons as to why they settled on 50mbps... who knows.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:22:14 EDT

18286719 posted : on the phone with shaw FTTP team, tech support department (1855-545-1133) and he sais quote on quote every shaw fiber to the premis setup is the same, they are all GPON setups, that pass on fibers to mini nodes in order to give users tv/phone service over cable, EVERY SHAW FTTP SETUP IS GPON, sorry ravenchilde but you are 100% wrong on this one, no EPON, dont believe me call the number listed above and wait to talk to tech support, also it is 115 a month and 1gbps down 50 up, 1TB data, i verified all of this on the phone with the FTTP team and am 100% sure its accurate information, all shaw fiber is done exactly the same as telus, google fiber, and new fios setups, GPON with ONT at customers premis, the only difference with shaw is they also convert the fiber to a mini node for tv and phone
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:26:31 EDT

18286719 posted : well i already asked about where your getting info about EPON so you obviously have no proof about that, now as for the price and speeds, where are you getting that info, and why the hell would they only offer 50mbps up
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:52:48 EDT

ravenchilde posted : Believe me or not, your choice, but I am right. :)

Also, I'm not certain why you think Shaw wouldn't be using EPON? And the reason why it is EPON is DPoE. DPoE allows the billing system to easily set up DOCSIS and EPON.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pa ··· _or_DPoE

Residential Gigabit fiber is around $119/mo, and up to 1 gbps down (most copper network interface cards will max around 890 mbps), 50 mbps up.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:46:08 EDT

18286719 posted : ? u act like spreading incorrect info is a good thing? u got nothin to say to back up your random claims do u
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:31:46 EDT

ravenchilde posted : :D

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:24:10 EDT

18286719 posted : where the hell are you getting this info that the residential fiber connections from shaw would be EPON, that is completely untrue and just so u know EPON is BETTER THEN GPON as its essentially a 100% dedicated fiber line, GPON and BPON are the only 2 fiber optic services that are fiable for residential use, EPON would just be way to much, those r the types of dedicated connections people pay alot for, and in this day and age, buying BPON when GPON is out is like buying docsis 1 when u can get docsis 3, there might be a tiny price difference but it will end up hurting you in the end, i am fairly confident in saying any residential fiber connection (special fiber pulls to a residential location dont count) will all be on GPON untill there is a new tech, now ravenchilde, plz explain why you think residential fiber with shaw is on EPON, and where you got that info from
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:38:19 EDT

ravenchilde posted :

said by TekWest:

There's some pics of a Shaw Business install at the bottom of page 4:

»forums.beyond.ca/showthr ··· number=4

:)

That is a business GPON install. The residential service would be EPON. The top box with the green connector is an RFoG "micro-node" (R-ONU) for telephone & cable service, and the white ALU box is the GPON ONU for data service.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 11 Sep 2013 21:17:22 EDT

TekWest posted :

said by kevinds:

If it is just for your house, and you can get their fiber services, do post back some details, speeds/costs/performance and the like :)

There's some pics of a Shaw Business install at the bottom of page 4:

»forums.beyond.ca/showthr ··· number=4

:)

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 11 Sep 2013 18:31:44 EDT

18286719 posted : that is so damn cool, plz do post speedtest and pingtest results :) damn thats awesome
--
Shaw Broadband 100/5 - Cisco DPC3825 - Asus RT-AC66U

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:14:49 EDT

kevinds posted : I have no idea, (part of why I asked him to report back with his findings).

Says in the fine print for FTTP places... But that is it. I suspect speeds are 1 gbps, by definition ;)
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Re: [MB] fibre in Winnipeg?

Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:32:48 EDT

Doonz posted :

said by kevinds:

Ask for this package ;)

»www.shaw.ca/internet/gigabit/

Whats that cost a month and do you know up speeds? as well as bandwidth?