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mpc3110
@192.193.171.x

mpc3110

Anon

[hard drive] 3 TB WD External Hard Drive, not accessible

I have a 3 TB Western Digital external hard drive. Whilst I was accessing it my computer locked up for some reason, the only option I thought was to turn off the computer. When I turned the computer back on I got an error (I did not really pay too much attention to it, but it said something like the drive letter J://$mbr or something like that, maybe $mpt and I believe it said failed to write or something similar). I went to access my external hard drive again and it was not visible in My Computer. I tried with another computer (Windows 7) and I had the same problem, the drive was not visible. I’ve run through a bunch of different tests:

1. In Disk Management the external hard drive is visible however it tells me the device needs to be initialized. I click initialize and I get an “I/O device error”
2. A lot of recovery software either does not find the drive or cannot access it
3. I’ve tried Western Digital’s “Data Lifeguard Diagnostics” and it found the drive, however the drive says 0 mb
4. I’ve also tried DMBE and it found the drive but says “Invalid Parameters” when I try to move forward.

I’m basically desperate. This drive has all my PhD data on it, I stupidly did not back it up properly. Money is somewhat of an issue and I do not know how much these professional recovery services charge. Any help would be of great assistance. From what I’ve read it does not look good. Others seem to have had similar issues, however never post follow-ups after their initial posts to actually say if they’ve fixed the problem, etc. Thanks!

Raible
join:2008-01-23
Plainfield, IN

Raible

Member

said by mpc3110 :

I do not know how much these professional recovery services charge.

$500-$1,000. Potentially more if they base it off the size of the drive.

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux to mpc3110

Premium Member

to mpc3110
Pull the drive from the chassis/enclosure. Turn the workstation off and connect the bare drive directly to the system as a secondary drive. If the system still doesn't recognize the drive you are looking at professional data recovery if that was the sole backup.

The issue could be the HDD itself or an issue with the chassis.

If the drive is under warranty, WD should replace it and you might want to check that before you tear it open as doing so will void the warranty.

In the future back important things up in at least two unique places.
psafux

psafux to Raible

Premium Member

to Raible
said by Raible:

said by mpc3110 :

I do not know how much these professional recovery services charge.

$500-$1,000. Potentially more if they base it off the size of the drive.

In my experience (a relatively small handful of cases) the starting amount is closer to $1500 and the upper cap can be thousands. The type of drive, the ease/difficulty, the amount and type of data, and other elements all go into the price. Several legitimate professional data recovery companies offer a free estimate prior to starting.

mpc3110
@192.193.171.x

mpc3110

Anon

Thanks for your replies. I think my plan of attack is going to be (and tell me what you think):

1. Boot from a Linux Live CD and see if I can read the drive
2. Test Disk and GetDataBack and see if the recognize the drive (and then do more research form that)
3. Remove the hard drive from the case and mount it internally. I really don't have access to a desktop. Could I buy a new external HDD enclosure and mount the old HD in there? Something like »www.newegg.com/Product/P ··· 03-00006. Do I have to worry about any encription considering the hard drive that I have?

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux

Premium Member

Your idea sounds fine, it doesn't really matter which way you approach the issue. I personally would remove the drive from the chassis first to figure out if the issue is the drive itself or the chassis. Just keep in mind if the external drive is under warranty opening it probably will void that warranty, if you intend to seek warranty replacement contact WD to see what options they offer/suggest for data recovery. They won't pay for the data recovery but they might have a suggested process that works well.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One to psafux

MVM

to psafux
said by psafux:

Pull the drive from the chassis/enclosure. Turn the workstation off and connect the bare drive directly to the system as a secondary drive.

In my experience, that won't work. Even with a perfectly running drive, WD and Seagate do some sort of funky formatting trick with their USB boards on the >2Tb externals. The result is that a drive formatted IN the enclosure isn't readable when connected via SATA directly. You'll get the same "disk needs to be initialized" error in windows, and the partitions won't show up.

You might try buying an identical external drive, and swapping the drives inside. That would at least rule out a problem with the enclosure itself.
Camelot One

Camelot One to mpc3110

MVM

to mpc3110
said by mpc3110 :

1. In Disk Management the external hard drive is visible however it tells me the device needs to be initialized. I click initialize and I get an "I/O device error"

If you have already done this, you will need to do a partition recovery to get to the data. "Initializing" removes the partition table.

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael to mpc3110

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to mpc3110
If there are no audible sounds (read: unusual sounds such as clicking/grinding) coming from the drive, then it is most likely a PCB failure (either the USB board or the PCB for the HDD itself). I have never personally ran into an issue pulling the drive out of the enclosure and using it in a computer (that doesn't mean your situation will be the same).

If this is the case, you can do one a few things to test:

1) As has already been suggested, test it in a different enclosure/mounted internally in a desktop.

2) If you still have issues, attempt to find an HDD (such as another 3tb WD external that came from the same year as the one you have) with the EXACT SAME FIRMWARE VERSION THAT IS PRINTED ON THE DRIVE. Then, replace the old PCB with the PCB from the new drive, copy all your data, erase the old drive and put the PCB back on its original drive.

3) If that fails, use the new drive. Disassemble the old drive and incinerate (I am not kidding) the platters, PCB, and everything with it (if you are concerned about the data getting into the wrong hands).

4) If you do not have a safe place to burn a HDD (read: If you live in the US or a country that is not friendly to dangerous oxides in the air or cannot produce a fire hot enough), you can buy a degausser, which can cost about $500. Keep it away from other electronics though.

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux to Camelot One

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to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:

said by psafux:

Pull the drive from the chassis/enclosure. Turn the workstation off and connect the bare drive directly to the system as a secondary drive.

In my experience, that won't work. Even with a perfectly running drive, WD and Seagate do some sort of funky formatting trick with their USB boards on the >2Tb externals.

Can you back this up with some documentation?

I have a 3TB Seagate running as we speak, er type, that I move in and out of its original enclosure without a problem. I've done this process for others in the last couple years who had 2+ TB enclosures that needed a diagnosis. In some cases the HDD is shot and it doesn't resolve the issue but I have yet to run across a situation such as you describe. I don't question what you say but it is odd from a technical point of view. There are only so many filesystems and there is at least one OS that can read any given one and Unix can read most of them natively. There are third party tools that can read them all. If the enclosure manufacturers developed some third party filesystem that is unreadable natively there would be an outcry in the I.T. world and from users.

mpc3110
@75.115.172.x

mpc3110 to Tirael

Anon

to Tirael
Thanks for everyone's continuing assistance.

I ran Knoppix from a USB and I did not see the drive anywhere. I also used TestDisk. It did not have the drive listed. Is this screaming a PCB problem? Trust me I have absolutely no issue with buying and installing a new one, I just want to make sure the symptoms are somewhat saying the PCB is the issue. The light on the hard drive keeps flashing as a constant rate.

I checked the AC adapter, it outputted 12 volts like it was supposed to.

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael to psafux

Premium Member

to psafux
said by psafux:

If the enclosure manufacturers developed some third party filesystem that is unreadable natively there would be an outcry in the I.T. world and from users.

And the FOSS community.

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux to mpc3110

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to mpc3110
Is the drive making any noises? Are you able to remove it from the enclosure?

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One to psafux

MVM

to psafux
said by psafux:

said by Camelot One:

said by psafux:

Pull the drive from the chassis/enclosure. Turn the workstation off and connect the bare drive directly to the system as a secondary drive.

In my experience, that won't work. Even with a perfectly running drive, WD and Seagate do some sort of funky formatting trick with their USB boards on the >2Tb externals.

Can you back this up with some documentation?

I cannot. As I said, "based on my experience". I ran into the same issue with every 3 and 4Tb WD or Seagate I tried. If I set up the partition myself, on sata or usb, it would read just fine on both. But the stock partition, readable on USB, would not read when the drive was connected straight to SATA.
I found it very odd too, but it wasn't a big enough issue to spend time trying to figure out. It was easier to just repartition the drives on first use. This was all done on Win7x64, at the time on an ICH10.

mpc3110
@192.193.216.x

mpc3110

Anon

My next step is to remove it from the enclosure. It is still under warrrenty with WD but I don't care, I just want the data. I just need to find a PCB that is the same as the one that is in there now.

Regarding the noise, it makes some initial noises when I first plug it in (AC and USB) and it sounds like it's working/trying to boot. Then it stops. All that happens is the light on the PCB keeps flashing. I had high hopes for Linux...

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux

Premium Member

It's hard to say whether replacing the circuit board would help or not given the symptoms but the boards can typically be found for less than $30 on ebay. It's often a worthwhile test. When you pull the hard drive out the circuit board should have its own part number printed on it. Use that to search for a replacement, make sure all the specs are a perfect match (including firmware version, size, platter quantity, sector, model, revision, etc). In a pinch search using the hard drive model number and again make sure the specs are a perfect match.

mpc3110
@192.193.171.x

mpc3110

Anon

I'm considering using this service:

»www.hdd-parts.com/13080601.html

See what they say.

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux

Premium Member

If you have the right screwdriver bit it takes about 3 minutes to replace the PCB. Not sure that's worth $70 but if it is for you then great The one positive thing is you don't have to deal with finding the right board (which is a minimal issue once you have the correct part number)

mpc3110
@199.67.131.x

mpc3110

Anon

That's honestly my only concern, finding the same exact one, otherwise absolutely I'd be replacing it myself.

Maybe stupid question, I'm reading some things about power supply issues which could be the cause of the light constantly blinking. I checked the output on the AC adapter, it outputs as it is supposed to 12 V. Internally, is everything associate with the power supply on the PCB as well? Thanks!

psafux
Premium Member
join:2005-11-10

psafux

Premium Member

said by mpc3110 :

Maybe stupid question, I'm reading some things about power supply issues which could be the cause of the light constantly blinking. I checked the output on the AC adapter, it outputs as it is supposed to 12 V. Internally, is everything associate with the power supply on the PCB as well? Thanks!

Occam's razor likely applies. I wouldn't dig too far into the more unlikely causes until you have ruled out the likely causes. Troubleshooting is a logical process. Rule out the easy and/or more common stuff first. The internet makes it really easy to get wrapped up "what if" since there are many bizarre situations out there to read.

To answer the direct question, yes power/voltage issues can cause all sorts of wonky behavior.

WireHead
I drive to fast
Premium Member
join:2001-05-09
Muncie, IN

1 recommendation

WireHead to mpc3110

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to mpc3110
Try a different wall wart. Just because it's output matches what it says it should be, does not mean it still outputs enough current. It could be sucking flat under load.

mpc3110
@199.67.140.x

mpc3110

Anon

Tried another AC adapter I had laying around that had the same specs as the one I had been using, no change. Still cannot read the drive. It definitely is turning when I first power it on.

GetDataBack did not list the drive, Remo Recover listed the drive, but recovered nothing. I'm going to buy a new PCB next.

If the MBR is corrupt, could this be leading to the problems? Essentially blocking the computer from communication with the HD?
Billy Brethr (banned)
join:2005-04-01
San Antonio, TX

Billy Brethr (banned)

Member

Pull the HD first. I've never heard about the "intermediary" layer mentioned before, that prevents a USB HD from being installed directly to a computer as a secondary, but in terms of level of effort and likelihood of success, pulling the HD from the enclosure is your next move. Buying a new PCB/Logic Board is a much more difficult solution than what it sounds like, as manufacturers build the same hard drive at multiple locations around the world simultaneously, and each factory might use several different Logic Boards on the exact same Hard Drive over a period of just a few months.

Example, a WD1000GS built in BingBong, China factory in May of 2013 might have been built using 4 different logic boards, and only one of these will work, while the same HD build in a different factory might have 3 different Logic Boards. I've done some reading on this on the forum "HDDGuru", and I'm no expert, but I do not recall ever reading that the spec on the logic board was dependent on the firmware, as was mentioned earlier. From what I recall, you need to get an exact match on the hardware. I don't think the firmware is the critical specification. But I could be wrong on this. What I'm more certain of is that it's not that big of a deal to pull the HD and install it directly. It's also possible that the enclosure is repairable. I'd want to know that the enclosure's power is correct before disassembling the enclosure.

mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI

2 edits

mmainprize to mpc3110

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to mpc3110
Just a few more cents from me.

I think your biggest problem is when it showed up in disk management and ask to be initialized and you did it, it made the problem much worst. Because the drive inside the USB enclosure is 3TB it most likely was a 4K sector advance format. When you let Disk management initialize it, it most likely defaulted to 512K sectors as it talked to the USD interface not the drive, so any data and MBR table got over written so the drive looks empty.

There are some programs that let you recover deleted partitions and you should try them, but i think you are out of luck as the initialize process cleans up the extra tables that could help restore the info missing.
»answers.microsoft.com/en ··· 59078008

So you need a recovery software that scans an empty drive sector by sector looking for orphaned files. I know in the old days you could find this software but today with the 3 and 4 TB drives i don't know what you should use, maybe someone here knows what programs might be able to do this.

mpc3110
@75.115.172.x

mpc3110

Anon

Thanks for the reply. I can't work around the "I/O Device Error" I keep getting. I downloaded Hiren's Boot CD and work with MBRFix. When I try to view the partitions it gives me the error "The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error". Any thoughts?

mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI

mmainprize

Member

If you are getting "I/O Device Error" with any program that can see the drive then you need to remove the drive from that USB enclosure and try it in the PC if still the same then the drive controller board is bad.

jbob
Reach Out and Touch Someone
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join:2004-04-26
Little Rock, AR
·Comcast XFINITY
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Asus RT-AC66U B1

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to mpc3110
Sounds like the only thing left for you to try is to remove the HD from the enclosure and hook it up to a desktop. I know you said you didn't really have access to one.
If nothing can see the drive then you are just spinning our wheels trying out different things.
Someone mentioned "initializing" the drive. I believe that is like Fdisk. If you accomplished that you can recover but the drive should still show up in Device Management. My worry is with a drive larger than 2 TB and how some operating systems "may" not be able to see it. I have no experience here but have read of the issues.

If the drive is still under warranty WD "might" can save your data for you if the drive is sent back to them. I assume this would be super easy for their techs especially under a warranted drive.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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said by mpc3110 :

Regarding the noise, it makes some initial noises when I first plug it in (AC and USB) and it sounds like it's working/trying to boot. Then it stops. All that happens is the light on the PCB keeps flashing. I had high hopes for Linux...

The OS really doesn't matter. A big reason why people use Linux is when their system drive is messed up, and need a OS that can boot from a CD or usb stick, which Linux is quite good at. But Linux isn't any better in accessing a drive then Windows is, as long as you use the right software.

Unfortunately, I do not believe your problem is going to be solved with software.... The initial noises you hear could be an indication of a hardware problem, and reading over the thread and what you have already done, I am fairly certain it isn't the circuit board.

As a last ditch effort, you can try to take the drive out of the enclosure as others suggested, and hook it straight onto a desktop computer's sata port, and see if you can run recovery software on it that way. If that does not work, I do believe your only recourse maybe a data recovery service, but will probably cost you a 4-digit number, and the first number MAY not be a 1......

Also pay attention to what Billy Brethr says: A "WD 3TB external drive" that we buy in a store may have had a production run of 2 years in some factory in China, and over the course of the 2 years not only multiple PCB's have been used, but perhaps even slightly different drive enclosures as WD re-designs and updates their drives. Parts are made by different factories, and finding the exact same part can be difficult. Even worse, the exact same drive may have been produced in three different factories in three different parts of China. Although all the parts are designed by Western Digital and subject to quality control, it could be that WD factory #1 still had 100.000 PCB's of version 1.002 laying around in May 2013, and will produce hard drives with May and June 2013 production date stickers while WD factory #3 just got the PCB of version 1.003 from the PCB factory and is making drives labeled with May 2013 and forward production date stickers immediately.

It's really hard these days, and that doesn't just go for computer parts. Even in things like refrigerators, the exact same model fridge can have a different model compressor then the same model built 4 months later, because Samsung contracted to a different supplier of compressors.

Hopefully you can get something out of the drive, but as time has gone by a month, I take it you are already re-working your PhD data....

I would recommend getting a online backup. I use Carbonite myself. Yes it costs $5 a month (paid yearly), but I have 160 or GB sitting in the cloud (the greater part irreplaceable photos) and I don't have to worry about hardware failure or my house burning down, the data will be there.

mpc3110
@75.115.172.x

mpc3110

Anon

Thanks. I think unfortunately I have exhausted all software possibilites of data recovery. Linux sees the drive the same way Windows 7 sees it (0 mb). GParted in Linux does not see it. I've tried applications on Hiren's Boot CD and always get an "I/O device error". The drive is still under warranty, but I don't care, I'm more interested in the data. Thankfully, I'm done with my PhD, but I'd still like to have all my old data/presentations back. The hardware encryption that these drives contain is a real killer. I have one last plan of attack. I'm going to buy the same drive again, open it up, take out the USB to SATA PSB and put it in my broken drive and see if that works. If it does not, I'm going to buy a new drive controller (from a company that will switch bios chips) and try that. If neither of those options work, well I'm out of luck. I'll never buy one of these drives again, it'll always be an internal drive in an external case, and I'll be backing up the more important bits on cloud storage as well. Any comments about my path forward would be appreciated, thanks everyone who has so far weighed in their suggestions.