 AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
to f0rtys3ven
Re: Heroes of the stormWell if you don't think perfect timing on a baneling bust or a storm requires fractions of a second you're incorrect. But I understand what you're saying and agree. Also, professional Dota players have similar APM to pro Starcraft players (cause lets be honest, when we say pro RTS we are saying pro Starcraft). And in terms of fluidity of engine Dota stomps on HotS. |
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 TRU
join:2005-07-21
Michigan |
TRU
Member
2015-Feb-2 11:11 am
The game looks good and I'm always interested to see what Blizzard's take is on MOBA. I've been bored with LoL and DOTA2 and haven't played either in a number of months. I've watched a few gameplay videos of HotS but I have yet to actually try the game out. Still haven't received an invite unfortunately. I've seen a number of "high profile" Twitch.tv gamers play HotS and it looks fairly responsive while watching the stream. And they continue to stick around and play to this day, so the engine must be fairly capable & doing something right. At the moment, I'm contemplating whether to even buy the Founder's Pack because it just seems too expensive at $40. Anyone have an extra HotS code?  |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
I would not buy the Founder's Pack under any circumstances.
Beta access will eventually be open to all, buying in is just silly. |
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 saillaw
Premium Member
join:2007-05-08
Dismay |
to puppy
I downloaded the Beta the other day. Tried to play it yesterday. Screen turns black, I can hear stuff, and then 3 seconds later it goes back to the desk top. I go to the official forums to find out that its a known issue that the game doesn’t work on nvidea 900 series cards unless you go to your nvidea control panel and reset all settings to default. Apparently they are going to fix that with the next patch.
Screw that, I'm not resetting all my settings for this. I'll try again after the next patch.
I am surprised though that they haven't sorted this issue yet. It seems like they are pretty far along in the development cycle to not be compatible with the current generation of nvidea cards. |
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 Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
to Adalicia
said by Adalicia:I would not buy the Founder's Pack under any circumstances.
Beta access will eventually be open to all, buying in is just silly. Apparantly the 3 heroes, skins, and in game gold you get makes it worth it. I can't see how a supposedly F2P title can charge that amount for a Founders Pass really. Are the 3 heroes not obtainable in any other way? Skins are cosmetic and next to useless in my eyes, and the in game currency is bound to be farmable / obtainable. I've still held off sinking that much real life cash into this title. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
I would still disagree 100%.
For the $39.99 price tag you get three heroes, Diablo, Raynor, and Tyrande, and a skin for each of them. You get 2,500 Gold and you get the Golden Cyber Wolf mount. Oh, and Beta access of course.
So:
Heroes: $5 + $10 + $8.50 = $23.50
Skins: $7.50 + $10 + $10 = $27.50
Plus Gold, Plus Mount. Obviously a great deal, right, you save money? Nope.
Skins are skins, take 'em or leave them (though the Tyrande skin is cool, shame she is such a shit tier hero). The three heroes you get aren't particularly great (Raynor is arguably the best of the three and is still very mid tier). You'll have 5 free rotating heroes as is (7 once you've leved some) that makes buying heroes (with the currently low hero pool) almost pointless. 2,500 gold is not a lot of gold (the lowest tier hero will cost 2,000 gold while an expensive one is 10,000 gold). And the mount, while it looks fancy, doesn't do anything differently than the free normal mount. It is a mount skin.
So, assuming you aren't in the HotS beta, why would you drop money to get into a game that will cost nothing to get into in a few months, when you have no idea if you will like it or not, and just to get three mid to lower tier heroes and a few cosmetic items and a small amount of gold? |
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 GoggalorPsychonaut
Premium Member
join:2009-06-09
Your Mind! |
Goggalor
Premium Member
2015-Feb-10 10:23 am
Actually, Diablo is probably the best of three, considering his role. He plays quite a bit like Allistar, back when he was actually useful. Instead of a knock-up, you throw the person over your shoulder and then knock them back (like Al did). |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
to puppy
I still had no beta invite and was still loathe to drop £30 into a F2P game which may be bad. I was moaning to a guildie in WoW and he said G2A were selling beta keys, I checked it out and I got one for $5, which in UK money is around £2.50. Worked like a charm so I'm finally playing.
My first thoughts are impressive. Yes it's an obvious LoL/DOTA clone, but it's dumbed down enough to make it accessable to all without a huge learning curve. Part of the reason I stopped playing LoL was the items and the sheer number of customizable builds. Whilst great for pros, for beginners it's a huge mind-fuck, especially as each hero only gets played for a week before it's learning another. A lot of work, for a game imho.
I'm still not totally sold, will play a few games and see how I get on first. As for the founders pack I still can't see it's worth as the skins are always going to be meh to me. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
said by Cat:Part of the reason I stopped playing LoL was the items and the sheer number of customizable builds. Whilst great for pros, for beginners it's a huge mind-fuck, especially as each hero only gets played for a week before it's learning another. A lot of work, for a game imho. That is the draw to games like that though, the level of complexity and flexibility in builds. That said, to someone brand new it is super overwhelming, but after a short period it is pretty easy to start piecing together what items go with what types of heroes in what types of situations. And you could always just copy-paste a build from something like solomid.net (assuming that is still a thing, which I would be surprised if it wasn't). That said, yes HotS is a simplified experience. No last hitting to worry about, shared XP, no items, relatively few choices resulting in few builds for the few characters. But the game does some stuff really well and can be very fun, especially with a group of friends (as is par for the course with most MOBA games). |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
Cat
Member
2015-Feb-23 9:21 am
said by Adalicia:That is the draw to games like that though, the level of complexity and flexibility in builds. That said, to someone brand new it is super overwhelming, but after a short period it is pretty easy to start piecing together what items go with what types of heroes in what types of situations. It's what Blizz do. They took Everquest, simplified it and made it WoW. They took Magic, simplified it and made it Hearthstone. With Heroes of the Storm they've taken away a core part of LoL (the items), but it actually feels better for it in my opinion. I can now jump on any hero and instantly pick it up with the ability tooltips. In LoL I'd have to do research into itemization and sit through a load of waffle to get to where I want to be. No skill involved, just a lot of reading. In the end I got bored of the reading for each new hero and just gave up. This casual style suit me down to the ground, although a lot of hardcore MOBA players will not like it. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
said by Cat:It's what Blizz do. They took Everquest, simplified it and made it WoW. They took Magic, simplified it and made it Hearthstone.
With Heroes of the Storm they've taken away a core part of LoL (the items), but it actually feels better for it in my opinion. I can now jump on any hero and instantly pick it up with the ability tooltips. In LoL I'd have to do research into itemization and sit through a load of waffle to get to where I want to be. No skill involved, just a lot of reading. In the end I got bored of the reading for each new hero and just gave up. This casual style suit me down to the ground, although a lot of hardcore MOBA players will not like it. Never said it wasn't what Blizzard is known for doing (although I would argue Starcraft's level of knowledge and skill cap is still the gold star standard for a complex RTS) I simply said that when DotA came along, and later LoL and Dota II it was the complexity that got people interested in those types of games in the first place. Which is fine, it makes no difference what people play and enjoy. And while I understand that it can seem overwhelming at first, I, along with many others, would say the number of items builds in those games while many and varied aren't terribly difficult wrap your head around after a short period. And with the way the match making works it is unlikely you'll be playing insanely good characters unless you yourself are insanely good (most of the time). I think HotS will have a niche market, but I think until people just get sick of MOBAs in general, which is unlikely to happen, it will remain a niche market. My biggest issue with the game at the moment is just the limited hero pool and limited number of maps. Without having the same type of complexity that the other games have they need to make up for it in map, character, and game type variety. And so far they haven't. |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
Cat
Member
2015-Feb-23 9:55 am
said by Adalicia:I think HotS will have a niche market, but I think until people just get sick of MOBAs in general, which is unlikely to happen, it will remain a niche market. My biggest issue with the game at the moment is just the limited hero pool and limited number of maps. Without having the same type of complexity that the other games have they need to make up for it in map, character, and game type variety. And so far they haven't. MMOs were a niche market until Blizz came along and made them mainstream. They could do the same with MOBAs. The vast majority of gamers don't care about complexity, they just want to log on and have fun. This is why companys can churn out the same game over and over and make a fortune (CoD, FIFA, WWE etc.). HotS seems to offer this, whereas LoL requires a far steepeer learning curve which will put the casuals off. As WoW proved, the casuals are where the money is at so Blizz are obviously hoping for a repeat performance. The game is still in beta so the limited heros/maps thing should be rectified. Gameplay is all I'm really judging it on (as being a success) and so far I'm impressed. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
League of Legends is the most played game in the world on a daily basis. Dota II is the most played game on Steam (though I don't recall concurrent numbers or anything).
MOBAs aren't a niche market, it is a massive market. What I was trying to say, and did a poor job on the back half (apologies) is that HotS will be a niche title in the MOBA genre and unless the genre stagnates and people start getting sick of League and Dota II, games like HotS and Smite will remain fringe and niche entries in the genre. MOBAs are huge, everyone and their brother has played League (something like 67 million people a month) and quite a few people have played Dota 2.
If gamers didn't care about complexity there wouldn't be 27 million people playing League of Legends daily. Blizzard isn't going to revolutionize the market. League is the MOBA WoW. Dota / Dota II was the MOBA Everquest. Riot beat them to the punch. |
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 Snuffboxnice irl
Premium Member
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
1 edit |
to puppy
I've been playing Heroes since Alpha. Coming from LoL I was pretty bias and skeptical, however LoL never gets played anymore.
The two obvious differences are no gear and no last hitting.
I thought the removal of last hitting would be removing skill, and it does to a degree. However, it opens up team play much more, people leaving their lanes and going to objectives. There's not a ridiculous meta, or people literally fighting or rage quitting if they don't get their lane.
Game is faster paced, abilities have shorter cooldowns and things can be done more reactively. The ability to counter other Heroes is great. Healthpools are larger (or abilities do less damage) so there's less insta-gibbing and more opportunity to recover or get assistance from other teammates.
In some maps it's 5 v 5 in the top lane to claim the first objective. I find this refreshing, and the removal of gear is mostly offset by your abilities having multiple options. This allows you to customize to the needs of your team without buying your preset gear. Because lets face it, you were already running a mostly cookie-cutter gear set anyways.
Game is good. Give it a chance, or don't, it will be successful without you. |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
Cat
Member
2015-Feb-23 10:34 am
said by Snuffbox:I thought the removal of last hitting would be removing skill. I'm with you in not missing this. The mechanic does leave itself open for nastiness between teams, and what with all XP in HotS being shared by the team, it's all about teamwork. Don't get me wrong I can see total noobs getting flamed, and some players sponging off the rest, but lets hope it's the minority. said by Snuffbox:Game is good. Give it a chance, or don't, it will be successful without you. I'd heard bad things, but since playing I believe the bad things were from hardcore LoL players disliking the "dumbed down" mechanics. I've had no input lag, the game plays like a dream and everyone has been great. I can't see myself sinking cash into the founders pack, but I'll play it casually. |
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I never experienced "lag" in the game and have played off and on since alpha release.
The issue is people that are accustomed to LoL will feel like abilities are slower/delayed from the smooth combo abilities of LoL.
Now i agree with Snuff that you wont get gibbed instantly and teamplay is more robust. For the casual player, people will enjoy this game over LoL, in my opinion, because of the simple fact of removing snowballing. Sure, teams can take off but not to the extent of LoL. Game play progression is more linear and smooth with map objectives key to winning (not player kills). |
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Snuffboxnice irl
Premium Member
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI |
Snuffbox
Premium Member
2015-Feb-24 10:36 am
said by liquoranne:I never experienced "lag" in the game I have not experienced this either. said by liquoranne:The issue is people that are accustomed to LoL will feel like abilities are slower/delayed from the smooth combo abilities of LoL. I don't get this? In general, Heroes have shorter cooldowns than in LoL. I can use abilities back to back to back in some instances. And combos absolutely exist. said by liquoranne:Sure, teams can take off but not to the extent of LoL. I agree with this. Sometimes you're up 10 kills and virtually all objectives but you barely feel like you're ahead. This is actually one of my largest complaints. They need to make things less linear, with a higher penalty of being behind in kills/xp. Otherwise it feels like it isn't worth working hard until rez times are around 30+ seconds. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
I dunno if that will happen. By keeping it close all the time there is no need for a true catch up or game swing mechanic like Baron / Roshan. And I think having the game be so objective centric will make it remain that way. At no point are you ever really out of the game where as in LoL or Dota II there is always a chance for a combat until the very end but the longer it goes and the further behind you fall the less and less likely it becomes.
The shorter game lengths also limit their ability to have it be as harsh as it is in other games as well.
As for the shorter cool downs, on average yes the Heroes in HotS have shorter CDs. Some characters in LoL have pretty short CDs and can be pretty spammy with the right builds (Irelia for example) and in Dota 2 some abilities have really low CDs but Mana is always the limiting factor in Dota 2.
I dunno, I feel it makes the action more consistent and you can totally do combos (though combos exist in the other games in my opinion, they're just way more difficult to execute) but I also feel the vast majority of the abilities are underwhelming. They don't accomplish a whole lot in terms of damage.
I dunno. I don't think it is a bad game, I just think anyone who was considering the founders pack to just play it is fucking insane. |
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Snuffboxnice irl
Premium Member
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI |
Snuffbox
Premium Member
2015-Feb-24 10:54 am
I agree in general Ada, the ability to come back late game is by design and not unintentional. I just think it is currently too much. If a team is up by 20 kills as well as getting every objective the other team should be pretty well out of the game. But that's not always the case and I think it needs to be reevaluated. said by Adalicia: anyone who was considering the founders pack to just play it is fucking insane. No argument here - be patient or watch reddit. People spam beta keys for those that haven't received one. |
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to Snuffbox
said by liquoranne:The issue is people that are accustomed to LoL will feel like abilities are slower/delayed from the smooth combo abilities of LoL. I don't get this? In general, Heroes have shorter cooldowns than in LoL. I can use abilities back to back to back in some instances. And combos absolutely exist. To be honest, its hard to explain. I know there are combo's you can pull off with abilities, Diablo's suplex/knockback is an example. For some reason they just dont feel as fluid as, lets say, a Veigar combo. Veigs combo kit just lines up better than any champ ive played in HotS. Now, this goes along the same line as no instagibs, so that could be the reason. I admit the game has grown on me since i stopped playing LoL. For a casual game its much easier to play. Where they will be challenged is trying to attract top level players and genre building of the E-sports theme like League has. The lack of true "cookie cutter" builds will really hurt this imo as your build follows only a few path options. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
said by liquoranne:The lack of true "cookie cutter" builds will really hurt this imo as your build follows only a few path options. This is something pretty important in my opinion. I mean you have cookie cutter builds for skill growth and items in stuff like League and Dota but as you play and learn what stuff does more you get to tailor things to your needs. With the gear in something like League or Dota it allows you to change where you were going if you have to, as well as just the utility of all the items themselves. There is no Blink Dagger or Rylai's Crystal Scepter. No Sheep Stick or Thornmail. Stuff like that makes those games so addictive and fun. I mean, League has gotten kind of better in that regard over the years (though I would argue their active items and stuff still aren't as interesting and potentially game changing as they are in Dota) but even League still has interesting and game changing items. Game going super poorly? Changing some item choices in how your build path was originally looking can change the entire outlook of the game. I feel like that isn't an option in HotS. |
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to puppy
In my experience from the hundreds of matches I've played, when you are behind in XP/Kills, you are struggling to hold, and the enemy team should be able to push and win easily.
The only way I've been able to come back from a 3-4 Level Deficit is to focus on the objectives, stall the enemy until we can reduce the level gap, and when the levels have evened out, hope we get a lucky pick or two, grab the objectives and push.
I've won matches I had no business winning just because the enemy team did not push the advantage they have. |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
to puppy
Played a few last night and lost. Arthas isn't as great as you'd believe (plus it's hard to win on gmaes when 2 of your players keep DC'ing). |
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to puppy
Am I missing something here? I thought this was already out to play for free, but I only see the big button to purchase a founder's pack in my battle.net screen.
Are the only people playing this the ones who got in on a beta or purchased a founder's pack? |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
said by Deremus:Are the only people playing this the ones who got in on a beta or purchased a founder's pack? Currently, yes. |
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Deremus
Member
2015-Feb-25 12:11 pm
Oh good. I don't feel as silly now.
I have a brother that I play games with on occasion (when kids and wives are away) and I think he would prefer this over League and Dota 2 if it is a bit simpler. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
It is indeed simpler. It would be a good fit. |
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Cat
join:2013-04-26 |
to Deremus
said by Deremus:Are the only people playing this the ones who got in on a beta or purchased a founder's pack? Yes, which why a lot of people have been frustrated, myself included. The game is worth paying a little for, but the Founders Pack just isn't worth it as it's essentially 3 heros and then all cosmetics. Plus the cash is non-refundable so if you don't like the game you'll get nothing back. In the end I bought a beta key from G2A.com for £2.50 (Founders Pack is £29.99). Once in, there is an ingame store which had lots of heroes 75% off. I think I can pick a 3 bundle for £2.99 which is far more reasonable. Literally a third of the price of the Founders Pack if you don't care for skins/mounts. |
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to puppy
OK the package is called the starter bundle and is currently 75% off (£3.99 not £2.99 as I thought yesterday). You get Raynor, Muradin and Malfurion and an Armoured Mount. I also got a bonus mount which is a rainbow pony thing. Arthas looked odd on it. Bargain at those prices, and if they carry on with deals like that then I will sink more cash into the game. |
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TRU
join:2005-07-21
Michigan |
TRU
Member
2015-Feb-28 3:39 am
So ended up just waiting things out instead of dropping the cash for the founders pack. Glad I did because I-- albeit quietly-- noticed that my Bnet application now showed a tab and download options for HotS where it otherwise did not before. So like I said, they quietly invited me into the Heroes of the Storm beta. No official email or notification anywhere. I was simply just able to download the beta and play.
@Adalicia - Thanks for the suggestion to NOT purchase into the HotS beta. I ended up listening to you and didn't go through with the purchase. Without you I likely would've bought it. |
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