Topic 'Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies' in forum 'Canadian Broadband' - dslreports.com

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:50:11 EDT

Cloneman posted :

said by hw :

I really want to get rid of POTS, but all the wireless carriers have atrocious wireless coverage here, and I'm in the middle of a suburb, surrounded by suburbs for miles. The phone reps always told me over the years that, according to their maps and postal code tool, I'm in an "exceptional" coverage area. Yeah, if they mean exceptionally bad that is. One of my neighbors complained recently, and the phone rep finally admitted that coverage here sucks, and to expect improvements in 2017 (seriously). I'm THIS close to buying a Wilson wireless booster amp.

This why I'm such a huge advocate of services like Rogers One Number. If you're call hunting 3 different services, you've got a much better chance of not dropping a call. I can't even imagine owning a phone number without it anymore. It's a shame I can't get something like this with a mature SMS platform from a low-cost VoIP provider in Canada.

I callhunt to VoIP services which I can answer via hardphone at home & at work. If I was so inclined I could get a prepaid phone from another carrier just to improve the chance of me having reception/ringing phone in more places.

It's not perfect, POTS is still more reliable, but having a diversity of 3 of 4 mediums, and being able to answer seamlessly on any one of them has been huge for me.

You can also get a Rogers Wireless home phone device (if offered in your area), which apparently is 10$/month and includes rogers one number. The advantage here is you can put the device anywhere in your home that has good reception and not have to move around with it and lose signal (you'd connect it to your DECT POTS phones).

Of course the cost of being with Rogers versus a regional carrier might negate all the savings you'd have made by dropping POTS to being with :)

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sun, 09 Nov 2014 12:10:51 EDT

bklass posted : Not just any competition analyst... have a look at this OECD report by Rudolf Van der Berg.

»oecdinsights.org/2014/11 ··· -to-you/

(link to actual report in first line)

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:28:12 EDT

sbrook posted : Like the supermarkets ... You all to often see "sale" stickers on products that are exactly the same price as a week ago. So, when "sale" is over the prices go up.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:26:17 EDT

elwoodblues posted : The biggest issue with that, is the build out, and spectrum, both are going to cost in the billions. I'd advocate FREE spectrum,just like Rogers and Bell got.

Then you have to deal with Robellus, they'll undercut any serious competition that can't sustain those low low prices. Once threat is gone..up go prices (even higher, gotta make up for those losses while we drove out the competition)

By the time the competition board gets a wind of it, the competition will be gone.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:17:20 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted : The only way prices go down is with competition. And any competition analyst will tell you that you need at least 5 players of meaningful size to ensure that prices in fact go down in a meaningful way.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:21:01 EDT

elwoodblues posted : Sure it was, people wanted 2yr contracts instead of 3 , prices went up to compensate, good luck finding that $30 6gb plan ever again. The company I worked for switched to Bell from Telus, got a good deal, the sales rep admitted the money was in the data, airtime and the phone were just loss leaders.

They've even imposed floor pricing ,you can't get model x phone unless you spend at least y a month (phone subsidy excluded).

Then we can factor in the increasing "per line" activation fee, and we're still waiting for the fallout over the loss of the 30 day cancellation period.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:52:07 EDT

Guspaz posted : And it's exceptionally rare for the cell network to go down in a non-emergency scenario. Between the two, I likely have better reliability than POTS... which does go down itself.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:04:43 EDT

yyzlhr posted :

said by elwoodblues:

said by yyzlhr:

While that may be true, changing their business rules to 29 days notice to circumvent this regulation would certainly upset the CRTC and they'd probably eventually take action to prevent it anyways. It's not worth it for the Big 3 to upset the CRTC over something so trivial.

You mean like jacking up the prices SIGNIFICANTLY for 2yr contracts vs the 3yrs (and I'm not talking about device subsidies either).

CRTC : We are declaring that 30 days notice is now eliminated
Carriers : OK, it's now 31 days
CRTC : They're complying with the regs, and are not imposing 30 days cancellation notices.

You need to remember, the loss of that 30 days is going to cost them, they have to make it back somehow. The CRTC is a batch of spineless ex-telco peons that are doing the bidding of their former employers.

I've stated a few times in different forums, we're getting seriously gouged vs what the Yanks pay.

CRTC : We are

That is not a fair comparison. The wireless code was not meant to impact pricing.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:20:38 EDT

sbrook posted :

said by elwoodblues:

I've stated a few times in different forums, we're getting seriously gouged vs what the Yanks pay.

Not nexessarily ... they keep getting hit with more and more below the line charges. You can't rely on the advertised prices any more as the actual cost.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:18:51 EDT

sbrook posted : It's funny how we value our privacy so much, and yet we allow people to invade it incessantly with a cell phone!

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:18:33 EDT

elwoodblues posted :

said by yyzlhr:

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:04:30 EDT

RogerD posted : No one is saying you must carry your cell phone... If the VM/Pager model works for you, leave the phone at home and VM will pickup the call.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:42:27 EDT

yyzlhr posted : While that may be true, changing their business rules to 29 days notice to circumvent this regulation would certainly upset the CRTC and they'd probably eventually take action to prevent it anyways. It's not worth it for the Big 3 to upset the CRTC over something so trivial.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:40:08 EDT

M_ posted : »www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archi ··· -576.htm

The wording in this page merely states "30 days".

It does not state 29 days, 31 days, 28 days, etc.

It does not state there is a maximum or minimum time frame in which you must notify your carrier/provider of a termination of service that is penalty/fee free.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:19:59 EDT

yyzlhr posted : Really? Fixed wireline broadband can go down in a non-emergency situation.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:39:21 EDT

Guspaz posted : If the cell network goes down, there is VoIP. And I don't see why fixed wireline broadband would go down in an emergency.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:21:21 EDT

Michael9009 posted :

said by taraf:

So get VOIP. FreePhoneLine.ca. No monthly charge, *most* of Canada is considered a "local" call, includes all the features, and long distance/international is cheap. You just have to buy a VOIP ATA and pay a one time $50 charge for the SIP CIP configuration files.

Or if you prefer not to hassle with setting it up yourself, go with Fongo. Literally the exact same service/features as FPL (same company), but you pay $5/mo for tech. support.

+++1! I've been with FPL for 3-1/2 year, have two lines with them and could not be happier for paying no monthly fees.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:21:25 EDT

JMJimmy posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

"The Commission hereby prohibits the use by telecommunications service providers of 30-day cancellation policies for individual and small-business customers...."

The indumbents will use the following logic to continue to force 30-day notices....

1) Corporations are people too.
2) Therefore it also immutably follows that people are corporations.
3) We hereby define that any corporation with 1 or more employees is a large corporation - because all businesses are instances of 'corporation' and the number of employees is simply a qualitative parameter not subject to CRTC jurisdiction (the Google/Netflix gambit).

Why so complicated? They'll just change it to a 29 day notice requirement.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 22:46:52 EDT

anon posted :

said by Guspaz:

I already have a cellphone, POTS is superfluous. I already have a phone number, I don't need another.

That's what I used to think... till 3 emergencies changed my mind.

While the shooting in Ottawa was not much of anything, and to me no emergency, cell still went down.

You are young and indestructible. One day you won't be. And when you need it most, well you get the picture.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:26:21 EDT

sbrook posted :

said by Guspaz:

Many people here probably pay $0/mth for their POTS service... by not having any :)

I already have a cellphone, POTS is superfluous. I already have a phone number, I don't need another.

That really depends on how your use your cellphone. For me, it's for emergency communicatios when travelling - for MY benefit. I don't WANT to be contactable every waking hour in every place imaginable.

I used to carry a pager and it was wonderful when flying ... nobody could waste my time and were forced to leave voicemail messages :-)

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:54:12 EDT

taraf posted :

said by hw :

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:35:53 EDT

anon posted : I really want to get rid of POTS, but all the wireless carriers have atrocious wireless coverage here, and I'm in the middle of a suburb, surrounded by suburbs for miles. The phone reps always told me over the years that, according to their maps and postal code tool, I'm in an "exceptional" coverage area. Yeah, if they mean exceptionally bad that is. One of my neighbors complained recently, and the phone rep finally admitted that coverage here sucks, and to expect improvements in 2017 (seriously). I'm THIS close to buying a Wilson wireless booster amp.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:17:42 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

See you in court, sukka's

LOL.. you're a comedian.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:15:59 EDT

Guspaz posted : Many people here probably pay $0/mth for their POTS service... by not having any :)

I already have a cellphone, POTS is superfluous. I already have a phone number, I don't need another.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:55:30 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by elwoodblues:

I don'[t recall paying an activation charge when I got my phones some 5yrs ago.

Bell wanted to charge a connection fee when I ordered phone for my new apartment last year but when I told them to waive the fee or I would not order service, the fee got magically waived.

When they said the price would be $28/month + taxes, I told them I used to pay $22/month + taxes at my previous address and they dropped the price to $20/month + taxes.

After they messed up the first bill and I called to complain about it, they further reduced the rate to $18/month.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 11:07:35 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

said by que_ball:

Maybe I should just call and bully them into waiving the 30 days.

How are YOU going to bully THEM? They're Bell.

When you place your order for service with Bell, tell the CSR that by agreeing to provide you with service that Bell agrees to abide by your T&C's as well which can be found at www.yourdomain.com/tanc (subject to change without notice - as per Rogers v. Kanitz), and that you currently have a property access fee of $60. If they provide you with service it's all been recorded, and if the CSR can bind Bell to providing you service then the CSR can bind Bell to accept your T&C's. See you in court, sukka's. ;-)

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:42:30 EDT

Zac posted :

said by que_ball:

Maybe I should just call and bully them into waiving the 30 days.

lol, That's funny. Bully them? When I'm bullied, I start flexing less and less. If I'm spoken nice to, or you have a valid reason, then exceptions can be made... Although, when people start demanding or are downright mean... One stops budging much, if at all, and less exceptions are typically made.
--
~There is no Normal or Abnormal... Just Diversity.
Member of Team Helix - Join Us?

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 09:58:40 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by que_ball:

Maybe I should just call and bully them into waiving the 30 days.

How are YOU going to bully THEM? They're Bell.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 09:48:17 EDT

Gone posted :

said by elwoodblues:

I don'[t recall paying an activation charge when I got my phones some 5yrs ago.

And certainly not on a "per line" basis.

They always have. It's $35 per line. If you ask nicely sometimes they will waive it.

$35 is also the HUP "admin" fee.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:24:42 EDT

elwoodblues posted : I don'[t recall paying an activation charge when I got my phones some 5yrs ago.

And certainly not on a "per line" basis.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 23:12:35 EDT

bklass posted : Just think of the value! 2500 call forward minutes? $2500? Coincidence?

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:45:15 EDT

yyzlhr posted : Rogers has always charged activation fees.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:42:09 EDT

que_ball posted : Ahh man, I just cancelled Bell Satellite service and am hit with the 30 day billing.

Wish the new CRTC policy was effective immediately. Maybe I should just call and bully them into waiving the 30 days.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:19:16 EDT

elwoodblues posted : Rogers has already implemented a per line activation fee.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:02:59 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by bklass:

A small business is defined using the CCTS definition of a company with less than a $2,500 per month telecommunications bill.

That's about the price of a single touch-tone land line with a variety of calling features and an unlisted/not published number, isn't it? :huh:

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:43:14 EDT

Montreal DSL posted : Got another email from CRTC saying, among others:

"..... On November 24, we will kick off our hearing on wholesale
telecommunications services. Again, we are looking at the wholesale
arrangements between companies, but this time for wireline services.

Large companies have been making significant investments in their networks
to bring fibre right to your front door. This enables them to offer faster
Internet services, Internet Protocol television services and other
services. Both residential and business services. One of the big questions
we will be asking during this hearing is whether independent Internet
service providers should have access to the large companies’
fibre-to-the-premises facilities.

Wireless and Internet services have impacts far beyond your access to
entertainment such as TV shows and music. They will fundamentally shape
the future of e-business in a digital economy, just as they will revolutionize
electronic health, e-learning, e-government, machine-to-machine applications
and smart transportation grids.

There will be huge demand on our communication networks as these new
services become available and more and more traditional services migrate
to the Internet.

In addition, less connected parts of our country and their local
industries require access to the latest technologies to satisfy the
expectations of the people who live there and to diversify and grow their
economies.

The CRTC has a responsibility to ensure that all Canadians have comparable
access to these services—and future opportunities—whether they are in
Whitehorse or downtown St-John’s.

However, in order to build new networks and expand the range of available
services, companies need to have a fair opportunity to make a return on
their investments. The communication sector is among the most capital
intensive in the country. It is a $62-billion-a-year business, employing
more than 150,000 Canadians.

These are hard and very important issues. If you think this is about House
of Cards and Orange is the New Black, you are missing the point about the
breadth of potentially disruptive digital issues on the horizon.

We are not the only people facing this conundrum. Regulatory bodies in the
U.S., Europe and elsewhere are also struggling with the same questions.
Because we know that our respective countries’ futures in a globally connected
world require us to make the right decisions.

Canada needs a strong and competitive digital communication industry to
take a leading role in the global digital economy...."

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:21:40 EDT

BrettD posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

They'll start charging an "Un-uninstall" fee.

FSOB Bhell already did that. I ported out my landline years ago to voip and they charged me for cancelling the *mandatory* touch tone service.

Then they cancelled/closed my account with that.

Then they told me they couldn't refund the invalid fee because I did not have an account to credit it back to.

Outright thieves.

I wonder how many Canadians these Bell Canada Crooks swindled, $5 at a time.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:12:18 EDT

DanteX posted : I love how Bell the big company it is somehow finds itself at a disadvantage when it comes to competing with the smaller guys who are more the willing to offer things bell refuses to do as Bell would rather have reason to make excuses then actually respect their customers and provide a quality service.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 19:49:08 EDT

bklass posted : A small business is defined using the CCTS definition of a company with less than a $2,500 per month telecommunications bill.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 18:02:30 EDT

HiVolt posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

They'll start charging an "Un-uninstall" fee.

Didn't Bell already try this with landline a while back? A disconnect fee when you wanted to cancel a landline?

I remember it caused a bit of a stink but havent heard anything since Bell probably removed it...

What Robellus will probably do now is institute or enforce higher setup or activation fees on all new accounts, to recoup what they lost by not being able to charge for the 30 day cancellation notice.

If the CRTC is smart they would follow closely how the pricing scheme of Robellus services for new customers will change after this policy comes into effect. If there is a significant change in installation fees, setup fees or activation fees, its directly related and appropriate action taken.

Edit: yup my memory was correct, Bell already did this lol...
»Bell tried to charge me a $20 home phone cancellation charge
--

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 17:59:53 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by sbrook:

They'll start charging first and last month's service up front.

And they'll start a CRTC proceeding to make indie ISP's do the same so Bell won't be at a competitive disadvantage ...... the 'symmetry' thing.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 17:50:17 EDT

sbrook posted : They'll start charging first and last month's service up front.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 17:45:12 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :
They'll start charging an "Un-uninstall" fee.

Reminds me of a time when I was dealing with a service bureau when I was using a lot of X.25 equipment and I went to terminate our month-to-month rental of the equipment, and their rep said to me, "You'll be wanting our uninstall fee for each gateway." I told her that they could take their 'uninstall fee' and shove it and that they'd be lucky if their equipment wasn't 'accidentally' sent to a landfill.

Only in that case we were the gorilla and they were the chimp. With Bell it's the other way around, and we'll all get screwed by the gorilla.

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 17:42:26 EDT

HiVolt posted : Well, for what it's worth I ported my cell number from Rogers to Wind at the end of September, and I was expected to get dinged with a 30 day notice charge, but I did not get dinged and got a rebate cheque last week for the difference between the port out date and my billing cycle.

I was not on contract with Rogers at the time of porting.
--

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 16:25:17 EDT

LastDon posted : can we start a poll and make a money pot to see who first roles out a new few structure and how much it will be?

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 16:23:03 EDT

mr weather posted :

said by BGB:

Introducing the new "Cancellation fee". Only 99.99 + tax for us to cancel your service.

Wouldn't surprise me if such a fee were implemented and was conveniently close to whatever the cost for one month of service is. :p
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:08:25 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted : "The Commission hereby prohibits the use by telecommunications service providers of 30-day cancellation policies for individual and small-business customers...."

The indumbents will use the following logic to continue to force 30-day notices....

1) Corporations are people too.
2) Therefore it also immutably follows that people are corporations.
3) We hereby define that any corporation with 1 or more employees is a large corporation - because all businesses are instances of 'corporation' and the number of employees is simply a qualitative parameter not subject to CRTC jurisdiction (the Google/Netflix gambit).

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:08:00 EDT

andyb posted : No not for contracts.You have to fulfill that otherwise a contract would be useless

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:51:28 EDT

anon posted : This doesn't apply if your on a contract right? Only if you are month to month or at end of contract ?

Re: (CRTC) Prohibition of 30-day cancellation policies

Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:24:44 EDT

Thane_Bitter posted : Good call, though we all know that regardless of the intent Bell will still double bill, demand payments for services not rendered, and the return of hardware all ready been returned.