 siljalineI'm lovin' that double wide
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Montreal, QC
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siljaline
Premium Member
2015-Nov-16 11:15 pm
After Paris Attacks What the CIA Director Gets Wrong About EncryptionKim Zetter of @Wired.com writes: quote:
It’s not surprising that in the wake of the Paris Terrorist attacks last Friday, US government officials would renew their assault on encryption and revive their efforts to force companies to install backdoors in secure products and encryption software. [...]
» www.wired.com/2015/11/pa ··· ckdoors/ |
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OZO
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OZO
Premium Member
2015-Nov-16 11:58 pm
Not surprising at all. They're going to use it as a reason for increasing spying on our citizens even more...  --
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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 ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia |
ashrc4
Premium Member
2015-Nov-17 12:18 am
Or another way to look at it they require legislation to control secret communication (spy) apps.
Most likely encryption will still be used to allow privacy yet in a limited fashion gov could investigate private communications. |
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 Chubbzie
join:2014-02-11
Greenville, NC
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to siljaline
quote:
No solid information has come out publicly yet about what communication methods the attackers used to plot their assault.
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siljalineI'm lovin' that double wide
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join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
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Many use chat the chat and wipe feature in Mobile phone apps and gaming platforms as well. |
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 BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
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Fort Wayne, IN
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to siljaline
In a world already awash with encryption tools and technology, officially attempting to backdoor or cripple new commercial encryption-related apps is an exercise in futility. Though I hesitate to drag in a controversial parallel, it's not unlike 'gun control laws' in a world awash with arms. At the end of the day, only law-abiding individuals will obey the regulations, and the bad guys won't - which leaves the bad guys with a decided advantage. If the legal crippling or backdooring of encryption software is implemented, only law-abiding users will obey such rules or use such apps - and only the law-abiding will find themselves entangled in bureaucratic jungles and experiencing lost freedom.
Case in point: I can take a megapixel photo-image and use the least-significant-bit of each 137th pixel color to constitute a binary message, grouping and encoding those bits themselves using a mere primitive encoding scheme, and all the analysis in the world is unlikely to even detect the presence of the message - particularly if the analysts don't have the 'master' photo to compare against. In the next message, I might do the same thing, but instead using each 119th pixel color and/or a different primitive encoding scheme... or use a different 'master' photo entirely. The variations are endless, and the steganographic technology has been available for years. At the end of day, there's even a complex one-time pad, which is literally uncrackable. The point is that there is no way of stopping or guaranteeing the interception/cracking of an encoded message if the sender is sufficiently determined and reasonably intelligent.
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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville |
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siljalineI'm lovin' that double wide
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siljaline
Premium Member
2015-Nov-17 11:45 am
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to Blackbird
Reusing the same image would be potentially dangerous since that makes you vulnerable to averaging attacks that can be used to remove the message noise. A simple modification to this, aside from using different images for each message, would be to use a password as a PRNG seed to generate the distance sequence between altered bits. To make things more interesting, the PRNG could also be used to select bit scrambling permutations and the bit stream itself could also be encrypted.
With the number of open-source cryptography toolkits, anyone can create their own chat application with end-to-end encryption with relatively little effort. The smart thing to do for a terrorist organization would be to use one of these and possibly modify the algorithms slightly, such as by inserting custom transformation stages, to invalidate all the research that has already been done towards breaking the standard implementation.
The only limit to how things can be hidden and encrypted is your imagination. |
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your moderator at work
hidden : Trolling
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to siljaline
Re: After Paris Attacks What the CIA Director Gets Wrong About Encryption"Collect it! Collect it all I say! Then give us the keys to the kingdom! Don't worry, we're from the government and we're here to help."  ...I just got a MAJOR case of the runs from that... Regards |
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OZO
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OZO
Premium Member
2015-Nov-17 10:42 pm
Encryption Is Being Scapegoated To Mask The Failures Of Mass SurveillanceAnd here we go - said by link @techcrunch.com :Well that took no time at all. Intelligence agencies rolled right into the horror and fury in the immediate wake of the latest co-ordinated terror attacks in the French capital on Friday, to launch their latest co-ordinated assault on strong encryption — and on the tech companies creating secure comms services — seeking to scapegoat end-to-end encryption as the enabling layer for extremists to perpetrate mass murder.
Then article shows many potential ways to bypass those fruitless restrictions on encryption, that some politicians or police departments want to push on public. I think it's important to understand this point: said by link @techcrunch.com :Bottom line: banning encryption or enforcing tech companies to backdoor communications services has zero chance of being effective at stopping terrorists finding ways to communicate securely. They can and will route around such attempts to infiltrate their comms, as others have detailed at length.
And here is what those proposals (to brake encryption and set backdoors inside) will lead to: said by link @techcrunch.com :Point is, technology is not a two-lane highway that can be regulated with a couple of neat roadblocks - whatever many politicians appear to think. All such roadblocks will do is catch the law-abiding citizens who rely on digital highways to conduct more and more aspects of their daily lives. And make those law-abiding citizens less safe in multiple ways.
Those are just several points from that article. But it's quite interesting and I'd suggest to read it all... --
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia |
to Blackbird
Re: After Paris Attacks What the CIA Director Gets Wrong About Encryptionsaid by Blackbird:In a world already awash with encryption tools and technology, officially attempting to backdoor or cripple new commercial encryption-related apps is an exercise in futility. said by InvalidError:With the number of open-source cryptography toolkits, anyone can create their own chat application with end-to-end encryption with relatively little effort.
Yes you can quite creative with encryption schemes to hide information but in terms of Apps that report their existance on phones and pc OS's anonymity is not assured nor is expecting someone that can hold a gun and shoot someone actually execute the skills nessecary in a collective (using similar apps) to, on mass, co-ordinate and communicate effectively a war. said by Blackbird: If the legal crippling or backdooring of encryption software is implemented, only law-abiding users will obey such rules or use such apps - and only the law-abiding will find themselves entangled in bureaucratic jungles and experiencing lost freedom. There is many options available to backdoor encryption and the best option i can think of (which wont be applied across the board) would be to impliment a part a part b masterkey option. One half held by the app and the other half held by gov. If and when gov wants to decrypt they should require usual steps to obtain the app half. This would presently stop ISIS etc from wanting to use their current collection and then when they go to use alternatives further single them out because of alternative options. Presently i have not much faith that people will fully comprehend the necessity to apply solutions for fear of loss any more than i do for a series of well implemented solutions. |
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ke4pym
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to siljaline
Signs are pointing to the fact that ISIS didn't use encryption... » theintercept.com/2015/11 ··· uspects/ |
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 Arne BolenHappy Anveo customer
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Cyberspace
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to OZO
said by OZO:They're going to use it as a reason for increasing spying on our citizens even more...
Government spying won't kill you - bullets and bombs from terrorists may. --
arnebolen@ghostmail.com |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
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Fort Wayne, IN
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said by Arne Bolen:said by OZO:They're going to use it as a reason for increasing spying on our citizens even more...
Government spying won't kill you - bullets and bombs from terrorists may. That all depends on the nature of the government. History is replete with examples of governments spying on and killing their own people. The question is: what is different about this government - and how do we keep those different things that way? Spying on one's own citizens is a big step in the direction of erasing the differences... --
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville |
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Arne BolenHappy Anveo customer
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said by Blackbird:History is replete with examples of governments spying on and killing their own people. The purpose of the American government's spying is to protect Americans - not to kill them. --
arnebolen@ghostmail.com |
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OZO
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to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:said by OZO:They're going to use it as a reason for increasing spying on our citizens even more...
Government spying won't kill you - bullets and bombs from terrorists may. Year, sure. If you want to forget the history lessons (like e.g. Nazi's Germany or USSR at the same time). Power corrupts... Have you noticed that? Especially if you allow it to play god and watch every move of every citizen --
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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Arne BolenHappy Anveo customer
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said by OZO:If you want to forget the history lessons (like e.g. Nazi's Germany or USSR at the same time).
I don't think it's fair to compare the American government with Nazi Germany or USSR. --
arnebolen@ghostmail.com |
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OZO
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join:2003-01-17
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OZO
Premium Member
2015-Nov-18 4:44 pm
You've omitted (willingly or not) the major point from my post: said by OZO:Power corrupts... Have you noticed that? Especially if you allow it to play god and watch every move of every citizen
And, BTW, I'm sure majority of people lived in those places at that time were sincerely happy with what they saw around... The point is - never forget lessons from the history, or you're doomed to get it back again... --
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
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Fort Wayne, IN
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to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:said by OZO:If you want to forget the history lessons (like e.g. Nazi's Germany or USSR at the same time).
I don't think it's fair to compare the American government with Nazi Germany or USSR. The Founders deliberately created a divided government and placed Constitutional restraints upon it because history taught them (and has re-taught us repeatedly since their era) that if governments obtain unconstrained power over their citizenry, they will eventually exercise it to the detriment of those citizens. In the Founder's era, the right of citizens to be free from the threat of government agencies raiding or sifting their "houses, papers and effects" without proper judicial warrant was expressly put in place Constitutionally for the reason that a government free to spy on its ordinary citizens' communications is a government that can and will come to control and bludgeon its citizenry into abject subservience. One of the differences between the American government and Nazi or Soviet government is respect for the Constitutional rights of citizens to be free from governmental spying unless judicial warrants are issued 'for cause'. In America, the government was intended to serve the people, not the other way round. --
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville |
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Arne BolenHappy Anveo customer
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said by Blackbird:In America, the government was intended to serve the people
IMHO the government is doing exactly that when trying to intercept communications used by terrorists. --
arnebolen@ghostmail.com |
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to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:I don't think it's fair to compare the American government with Nazi Germany or USSR.
If the shoe fits... |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
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Fort Wayne, IN
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to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:said by Blackbird:In America, the government was intended to serve the people
IMHO the government is doing exactly that when trying to intercept communications used by terrorists. said by Blackbird:In America, the government was intended to serve the people, not the other way round.
And when they vacuum up, analyze, and store ordinary citizens' communications without a court warrant, the people are being made to do exactly the latter. --
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville |
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siljalineI'm lovin' that double wide
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Montreal, QC
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to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:Signs are pointing to the fact that ISIS didn't use encryption... There's a lot of that going around. ISIS do encrypt but at the same time are horribly sloppy - then, you've got to ask, is that on purpose. |
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| siljaline |
to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:The purpose of the American government's spying is to protect Americans - not to kill them. Is this is secret PRO CIA account  --
Those Pink Aliens look delicious - I could eat ... |
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I guess the three letter agencies have never heard of Occam's Razor, or Edgar Allen Poe |
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siljalineI'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
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Montreal, QC
kudos:18 |
Eh ? |
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 DonoftheDeadOld diver
Premium Member
join:2004-07-12
Clinton, WA
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to siljaline
The CIA experimented with LSD on American citizens resulting in at least one death. A woman holding her infant was killed by an FBI sniper. No one has ever been prosecuted for their deaths. The womans family was awarded some money by the gov after they were sued. I don't trust the American government any more than any other government. They can kill you anytime they want. So don't get in their way-or else.
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Please put the manhole covers back when you're done fishing. |
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Arne BolenHappy Anveo customer
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Cyberspace
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to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:Signs are pointing to the fact that ISIS didn't use encryption...
IS is of course using encryption when it's needed. The article in The Intercept is about cellphone use during terrorist operations, situations where it's more practical to use burner phones. There are tools available making it very easy to use encrypted communication, so secure that the NSA and GCHQ can't break it, and there are no metadata to track. --
arnebolen@ghostmail.com |
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 sivranVive Vivaldi
Premium Member
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Irving, TX
kudos:2 |
to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:said by Blackbird:In America, the government was intended to serve the people
IMHO the government is doing exactly that when trying to intercept communications used by terrorists. But it isn't serving the people when it is hoovering up the people's communications. There's a reason we used to have a thing called the Fourth Amendment. I kinda miss it y'know. --
Rise from your grave, Opera -- »vivaldi.com |
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