 kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB |
to AsherN
Re: It took only 3 seconds!My dad still gets funny looks in the US when he has to punch in his PIN after inserting his chip card...
Yes, I also don't understand what the issue is...
Was done in the past 5 years for credit cards.. Debit cards always had a PIN, credit cards, just a got told, you will need a PIN to do most transactions from now on.. Choose your PIN when activating your card or your PIN will come in the mail in a couple days (depends on the issuer)
Bit of confusion for a couple months by some customers (but staggered for when they got the new cards, not everybody at once), and the switch was done.
I don't understand what the issue is.. Seems like many are just making excuses, it isn't that hard to accomplish. |
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said by kevinds:I don't understand what the issue is.. Seems like many are just making excuses, it isn't that hard to accomplish. It is very simple - business does not want to pay for the new terminals. This is one of the problems with the 'open' market. More important to make money and to hell with consumers. The longer they can put it off the more potential profits for the shareholders. This is the same basic reason why a lot of regulations exist - most should no be needed but they are so cost adverse that they have to be forced to do the right thing many times |
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kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB |
kevinds
Premium Member
2016-Apr-6 12:20 pm
And when they have the terminals and still don't use them?
Why to the terminals with a chip reader need a software update? More likely just a configuration change, somebody turned it off... |
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 jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx |
to kevinds
said by kevinds:Yes, I also don't understand what the issue is... Cultural exceptionalism in action: we have nothing to learn from your experiences. We'll do it our way. Seriously. That's all it is: an unfortunate form of collective stupid. |
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OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17 |
OZO
Premium Member
2016-Apr-6 10:00 pm
Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others -- Bismarck, Otto von |
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scross
Member
2016-Apr-7 8:21 am
The truly wise man profits from the mistakes of others. And a "sharp" one will find ways to help nudge those mistakes into fruition.  |
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to kevinds
The back-end processors have to get inline for the change as well. Once businesses realized the need and such - some maybe waiting to jump directly to chip/pin rather than chip/signature and then chip/pin. |
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jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx |
jap
Premium Member
2016-May-17 9:14 pm
said by jap:said by kevinds:Yes, I also don't understand what the issue is... Cultural exceptionalism in action: we have nothing to learn from your experiences. We'll do it our way. Seriously. That's all it is: an unfortunate form of collective stupid. Whoops!, I was wrong: it's good ol' American grade-A greed & regulatory capture. Duh! We shoulda known. In addition to the usual percent-of-sale cut paid to card issuers, U.S.-based brick&mortar retailers are levied a five cent 'signature authorization fee'. You know, for paying the poor sap who may have to authorize that touch-screen scrawl you made. Now I want to know the average number of daily U.S. face-to-face credit card transactions. Kudos to Senator Dick Durbin (D,IL) for kicking up some dust on this. Turns out he's also the guy who inserted the amendment which disallowed authorization fees to be changed on debit cards when they first emerged. » arstechnica.com/business ··· ersight/I hope the retailers get a massive pay-out award from the courts. They've been totally screwed on this one. |
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 mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20 |
mackey
Premium Member
2016-May-17 10:00 pm
said by jap:U.S.-based brick&mortar retailers are levied a five cent 'signature authorization fee'. We do not get charged any such fee, my guess is Walmart demanded such low rates from Visa et al that they were forced to accept this "signature authorization fee" due to the increased chance of fraud for those transactions (vs PIN). |
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jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx
1 edit |
jap
Premium Member
2016-May-17 11:54 pm
The article mentions such a fee and reader discussion is where the amount of 5cents comes from. Someone also mentioned that small retailers fees are structured differently than negotiated deals with large retailers. It's not an area I know much about so am relying upon that one Ars page and Wiki's entry for the Durbin Amendment and interchange fees. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du ··· mendmentWith your word 'we' do you reference the U.S. or some retailer you work for? edit: Transaction Fees go to issuing bank, not the card company. According to the below CC processing consulting & contract "plan" brokering company the fees vary by business and region on a number of criteria: one of them being signature versus no signature transaction plans. Seems there is no line item fee, per se, but rather a retailer who collects signatures for CC transactions pays a lower overall transaction fee; the difference being buried in tiered plans. » www.cardfellow.com/inter ··· nge-fee/» www.cardfellow.com/tiere ··· ge-plus/ |
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mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20 |
mackey
Premium Member
2016-May-18 12:49 am
The company I work for. We're much too small to negotiate with Visa and friends directly, so we get what's known as "interchange plus pricing" - basically Visa's published fees (we fall under "CPS/Retail") plus a small additional markup by our provider. If you read that price list you will see there's no "signature authorization fee" listed, and our provider does not have such a fee either; it must be something in the agreement Walmart negotiated with Visa. |
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| mackey |
mackey to jap
Premium Member
2016-May-18 1:06 am
to jap
said by jap:the fees vary by business and region on a number of criteria: one of them being signature versus no signature transaction plans. Seems there is no line item fee, per se, but rather a retailer who collects signatures for CC transactions pays a lower overall transaction fee That's not what it says at all. "Signature" and "Signature Preferred" in this context is the type of credit account and is related to the rewards or perks that come with a particular card; it has nothing to do with collecting signatures for transactions. |
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 Snowy"LET'S GO DARWIN"
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI |
Snowy to jap
Premium Member
2016-May-18 1:12 am
to jap
said by jap:... but rather a retailer who collects signatures for CC transactions pays a lower overall transaction fee... That's correct. A pet peeve of mine too. The rule of thumb is the more data a retailer captures from card holder the lower their fees will be. Personally I'd rather pay a retailer the few cents they save instead of standing at a terminal waiting for the extended signature process to complete. If the merchant saves a nickel by adding 15 seconds of my time to the checkout process it works out to $12 every hour saved by the merchant but costing 240 customers 15 seconds of extra terminal time. A penny wise but pound foolish decision for retailers that go this route, IMO. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2016-May-18 6:33 am
I had walmart tell me i had to give them a real name before. I walk in buy something they ask for name etc so i say
Nanaki seto
address: 111 none street nowhere ohio 44203
Phone 3301234567
Lit what i give them every time. I also use stuff like that for online accounts prepaid cell phone etc. |
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mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20 |
mackey
Premium Member
2016-May-18 4:57 pm
said by Nanaki:Lit what i give them every time. I also use stuff like that for online accounts prepaid cell phone etc. They don't care, they just want something to track you by. As long as you give them the same info every time their tracking system works and they're happy. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2016-May-18 5:06 pm
No skin off my back lol. Id love to see all that postal junk mail in the dead letters pile at the post office generated by my fake address has to be pretty damn big :\ Almost forgot im one of those guys who use to tape buis reply postage paid envelopes to bricks and mail them back to scammers So yeh defo not against wasting junk mailers money. |
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kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB |
kevinds
Premium Member
2016-May-18 5:48 pm
said by Nanaki:Almost forgot im one of those guys who use to tape buis reply postage paid envelopes to bricks and mail them back to scammers Scammers usually didn't use Postage-Paid-Reply envelopes, too easy to track them down.. Some junk mail groups, oh yes. Too bad we can't do the same thing by email. Receiver paid overnight courier bags to just mail the *taxes due for $27 billion deposit* as cash? Humm that is an idea |
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jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx |
jap to Nanaki
Premium Member
2016-May-18 8:34 pm
to Nanaki
Man after my own heart. Mine returns were rusty old nails, washers & bolts, padded by whatever paper crap they'd provide minus the identifying bits. I hope there were many thousands of us but I doubt it. said by kevinds:Scammers usually didn't use Postage-Paid-Reply envelopes Spammers = legal scammers ... sort of. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
to kevinds
well just because it is a scam morally don't make it one in the legal sense. For it to be illegal when you send money you get nothing for it or it is bait and switch. Direct tv is a scam imo because they say 19.99 a month. But after fees taxes and more fees it is 70+ per month.
Im talking more along the lines of supposed charities that pocket 90% of the money Or my fav was a abortion clinic trying to get donations under the guise of a pregnancy center. I used their postage paid to send them a cinder block with the wholes filled with cement also. I figured out the cost of mailing the sucker and even back then it was like 30 bucks lol |
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| Nanaki |
Nanaki (banned) to jap
Member
2016-May-18 8:46 pm
to jap
Oh jap there was a entire forum that use to exist dedicated to the practice lol That and data fuzzing by emailing bank scammers fake info and filling in fake log in info on phising sites etc. They had a photo thread for people to post the most ridiculous items mailed to junk mail spammers. One guy mailed 50 pounds of lead others were like ten pounds of dog poop mixed with fish guts. All sorts of whacked stuff lol. Now any thing mailed has to fit in the envelope. But a letter sized 1/8 sheet of lead is still around 1 pound plus. So not as effective today as it was 15 years ago give or take but still yeh 1k people mail 1 pound lead sheets to junk mail clearing houses in buis reply it will sting a little. |
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jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx |
jap to mackey
Premium Member
2016-May-18 9:01 pm
to mackey
said by mackey:nothing to do with collecting signatures for transactions. Correct those were entry point links to the site. This CardFellow page, PIN debit vs. Signature Debit compares transaction costs of the two. None of which appears to be a one-size-fits-all calculus. Dunno if they've a similar page for CCs. I'm content to not read more on the topic anytime soon. Have learned enough to alter my payment practices: more debit payments for consumables, use CC for durable goods over ~$50 to get the loss insurance. Also have more sympathy for retailers. |
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| jap |
jap to Nanaki
Premium Member
2016-May-18 9:15 pm
to Nanaki
said by Nanaki:Oh jap there was a entire forum that use to exist dedicated to the practice... What grand news! You've elevated my affection and sense of hope for humanity.  It was a 1980s thing for me so no safe online comradery. |
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Snowy"LET'S GO DARWIN"
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI |
Snowy to jap
Premium Member
2016-May-18 9:42 pm
to jap
said by jap:Man after my own heart. Mine returns were rusty old nails, washers & bolts, padded by whatever paper crap they'd provide minus the identifying bits. I hope there were many thousands of us but I doubt it. hmm, maybe I'm not as strange as I ... I know a lot of people wanted to but didn't for a lot of good reasons but I laughed for a week about it. American Express received a 17.5" x 11" x 10" carton that previously held 10 reams of white #20 bond paper. Nothing toxic or disgusting, just office trash with a few items added for extra weight. Post office even picked it up from the office with the 'regular' mail |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2016-May-18 10:09 pm
Yeh postal carriers use to get a kick out of my bricks. Best your gona be able to do now is a letter sized 1/8 inch sheet of lead etc. It has to fit in the envelope now else they wont accept it.
The heaviest i heard about was like 250 pounds of rocks or some such. That was decades ago though. I know after mailing out around 8 or 10 regular bricks the amount of junk mail that we got at my house went way way down i wonder if i got black listed lol |
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