Topic 'Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks' in forum 'AT&T U-verse' - dslreports.com

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade - Grounding Info

Tue, 07 Jun 2016 22:19:02 EDT

ILpt4U posted : Grounding to entrance conduit in or out of the Power Meter is within Electrical Code -- and there only needs to be 1 point of metallic/non-rusted contact to make the ground

I doubt every square inch of the ground strap connection to that threaded conduit is rusted, leaving no metal-on-metal contact (which would void the ground connection)

Its a good, Code-approved ground

But I do agree, if the common Electrical Ground Rod is available to connect to, that is the best option. But this method is fully Code compliant

Worse ground connections: Grounding to PVC entrance electrical conduit, or grounding to the exterior water spigot, and inside the house the old Copper water pipes have been replaced with PVC -- yeah, both of those are worse. Or grounding to the Gas Meter/pipes -- had to replace those in the Field, too

Of course, totally missing Entrance Grounds are far and above worse, and yes, had to ground those in the Field, too

The depicted ground really isn't that bad, IMHO and experience

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade - Grounding Info

Tue, 07 Jun 2016 22:15:25 EDT

timothyhohar posted : That looks like one of the worst ground connections I may have ever seen. The corrosion on the threaded conduit between the meter base and the box underneath prevents a good connection. Isn't there a ground rod there that everything can tie to?

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade - Grounding Info

Tue, 07 Jun 2016 21:31:46 EDT

ortizdr posted : I was going to say Fort Worth. That Oncor tag is un-mistakeable.
--
Dustin
"Let's ride!"

New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade - Grounding Info

Tue, 07 Jun 2016 05:20:08 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : The last thing the tech did was (specifically) check the ground and pronounced it to be within spec; it's grounded to the electric service meter & breaker box conduit as you can see. I would assume that means everything is okay. And yes, the drops are aerial from the pole and not underground. (One of the drops is dead; it dates back to the earliest days of DSL in Fort Worth, Texas when the local regulators made what was then Southwestern Bell install a "dry loop" instead of sharing the conventional POTS line like they did later on.) I actually had a dedicated jack for my DSL service separate & distinct from my phone service, so I didn't have to mess with any pain-in-the-neck filters on all of my (many) extension phones. Photos attached for further examination...

Ground Demarc
Ground Elec. Meter 1
Ground Elec. Meter 2

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade

Fri, 03 Jun 2016 00:38:49 EDT

anon posted : While the NID may be old, the new non corning NIDx now being used look pretty much like this.

Considering before DTV purchase our L2 was a new ATT on all installs/repairs.... After the purchase (company now buying DTV equipment PLUS all the GigaPower equipment.... The Nid is now, leave up what is there and update the components.

We can only order (3) Nids at a time, each tech has to order their own, no more ordering for the crew or the garage. Before I could replace three NIDs in a day, now have to make same three last a week.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:39:40 EDT

mackey posted :

said by premtchIL :

Unfortunately the protector and line mod in the nid (phone test port) is not a usable test point since you do not have pots service.

Not entirely true. If you look carefully you can see the test jack is not on the data side but rather it's on the VoIP-from-the-RG side. Setup looks like:
CO/DSLAM -> protector -> home run -> branded jack -> RG -> branded jack (again) -> home run (again) -> test jack -> inside wiring for phone jacks

As such the test jack is still usable to isolate the inside wiring from the branded jack and home run.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 02 Jun 2016 18:54:17 EDT

anon posted : Unfortunately the protector and line mod in the nid (phone test port) is not a usable test point since you do not have pots service. Vdsl does not create a voltage or dial tone that you the homeowner can test from. The issue you were describing is a relative easy fix. The tech unfortunately used a shotgun and not a scapel

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade

Sat, 28 May 2016 23:12:18 EDT

muegen posted :

said by colophon :

but overall this is a complete fail and would bring disciplinary in my area if inspected.

What? Yea, there's a few misses here but a complete fail? That's a little much.

Ground looks to be the right gauge.
HR comes in on the wrong side.
Didn't place a second protector. Both protector styles are proper. I find sled style easier to work with but the both perform the same. I have tested at my garage to disprove this theory of one better than the other.
Some areas, you are not required to run grounded drop.

From what is normally seen in the field, I wouldn't mind opening up a nid to this.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade

Sat, 28 May 2016 21:44:31 EDT

anon posted :

said by Travis_Lloyd:

And finally, here are the "Before" & "After" pictures of the great Demarc upgrade that was part of the afore-mentioned truck roll. As you can see, the guts are markedly different and thank God they put the line-test jack back where it belongs! Only the carbon remained the same.

Ugh, sad to see this, Hopefully this is aerial plant first of all, tough to tell completely, drop isn't grounded, however it looks to be aerial so that is okay. Ground may also be old and wrong gauge, again, not a huge deal, but seeing as your nid shell is also old, I wonder if the ground source is even proper. Also your protector is technically not proper. Should be the sled or 'inid' type, offer slightly better protection, less prone to fail, slightly better snr. Tech maybe did not know any better, or local practice. "Test jack" really does not matter much. Your dialtone is coming from the phone port in the back of the modem (which is essentially your test jack), the backfeed test jack into the nid is to get away with regulatory non-sense and then back fed into existing phone system. At any rate, your tech made some what of an attempt to bring things up to par, but overall this is a complete fail and would bring disciplinary in my area if inspected.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Fri, 27 May 2016 23:11:54 EDT

mackey posted : Yeah, I can see that for longer distances.

The fact that we are under 2k feet from the CO but the most we could get was 18/1 drove us nuts. We still have bonded ADSL2+ from Sonic as a backup, but now use Cable as our primary connection.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Fri, 27 May 2016 22:48:38 EDT

Mr Fel posted : A lot of poorly maintained plant mostly. Bonded vdsl is already a nightmare to troubleshoot on occasion, increasing the loop length that ipdsl allows for isn't going to help that any. I'm looking at it as a tech not a user, for users it seems great until they run headlong into problems »Internet goes out when it's hot and it rains.
--
Things aren't different. Things are things. - Neuromancer

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Fri, 27 May 2016 22:33:33 EDT

mackey posted :

said by Mr Fel:

I'd say there was some cross bad idea propagation here, like the bonded IPDSL trials.

Ok I'm curious, why is bonded IPDSL bad? Sonic doesn't seem to have a problem with it... At work we'd probably still have at&t had they offered it or CO-fed VDSL2 (1 mbps up just wasn't cutting it).

New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks & New Demarc Upgrade

Fri, 27 May 2016 19:25:51 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : And finally, here are the "Before" & "After" pictures of the great Demarc upgrade that was part of the afore-mentioned truck roll. As you can see, the guts are markedly different and thank God they put the line-test jack back where it belongs! Only the carbon remained the same.

Old Guts
New Guts

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Fri, 27 May 2016 01:48:01 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : That's what my first one looked like; this is what the new replacement looks like. It's now got some kind of back-feed to the line-test jack in / at the demarc; you'll note that all of the pairs of the Cat 5e cable are now utilized, where they were not previously...

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 20:09:28 EDT

muegen posted : I prefer the slimmer model. Unfortunately, you cant take the pcb out of it.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 20:05:21 EDT

premisetech posted : Took these when the branded jack came out but never posted them.

Front
Back

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:53:48 EDT

Mr Fel posted : Until then I'd say we have more than enough work already between UVerse Classic, UVerse Fiber, DTV, & that new Business VoIP. It's been a while since I've felt like a rookie out in the field.
--
Things aren't different. Things are things. - Neuromancer

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:53:47 EDT

NetFixer posted :

said by ILpt4U:

I'm sure the AT&T Branded Jack sounded like a good idea to someone, somewhere... Just not quite sure to whom and from where

The idea of a standardized way to deliver the DSL signal to the modem over a cat5 homerun cable, and a standardized method to back-feed the FXS signal(s) from a VoIP ATA back into the existing in-house telco wiring is/was a good idea. I can't comment on exactly how AT&T implements that with their "AT&T Branded Jack" (and/or the quality of that hardware), but shown below is my own implementation that I used when I still used DSL service (the VoIP back-feed is still in use).

[att=1]

[att=2]

The cat5 cable feeds through the wall to the AT&T pedestal that is next to my office window (I do not have a NID).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:47:11 EDT

premisetech posted :

said by Mr Fel:

I'd say there was some cross bad idea propagation here, like the bonded IPDSL trials.

Those trials will be making a comeback unfortunately.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:44:03 EDT

Mr Fel posted : I'd say there was some cross bad idea propagation here, like the bonded IPDSL trials.
--
Things aren't different. Things are things. - Neuromancer

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:38:57 EDT

ILpt4U posted : I thought the ABJ was more inspired by the iNID, but thats another bad idea that failed

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:37:56 EDT

Mr Fel posted : Meh... AB Jacks were the second iteration of this bad idea, I still remember the older Apartment POTS/VOIP/Data AIO jacks that failed as well.
--
Things aren't different. Things are things. - Neuromancer

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:34:39 EDT

ILpt4U posted :

said by muegen:

heh nid guts... we've been told not to install the nid components anymore. -_-

And I know coworkers who saw Corrective Action for not installing the NID guts

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:33:13 EDT

muegen posted : heh nid guts... we've been told not to install the nid components anymore. -_-

Their reasoning is flawed, but... It's one less pof so I am ok with it.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:22:58 EDT

ILpt4U posted : Possibly a bad scotchlock, a bad pin, something in the new ABJ guts out in the NID -- again, why reinvent the wheel?

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:21:41 EDT

muegen posted : The jack while in use, is just like any other jack. There's no magic going on while the data cable is clipped in. More likely a bad scotchlok behind the jack.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:19:57 EDT

Mr Fel posted : Them, out there, obviously.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 19:09:21 EDT

ILpt4U posted : I'm sure the AT&T Branded Jack sounded like a good idea to someone, somewhere... Just not quite sure to whom and from where

New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 26 May 2016 18:14:49 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : Had the U-verse tech out yesterday and sure-enough my suspicions were confirmed; it was indeed the so-called "AT&T Branded Jack" (aka AT Jack) that was the problem. As soon as it was replaced the line immediately returned to normal service. For good measure he replaced the conventional voice-line jack on the baseboard (which was connected to the inside premise wiring distribution block and the other extension jacks) as well as the carbon at the demarc but that was just to cover the bases and head-off any potential problems in the future. He also installed a new NID device which (once again) has a line-test jack out at the demarc like they used to. When my original U-verse install took place the outside line-test jack went away, something the tech admitted was a bad move; the outside jack greatly simplifies line testing. Anyway, after 7 days of misery it finally had a happy ending and I hope my (painful) experience might help somebody else who has a similar challenge. When you have a strange line problem and nothing else has changed, look at the AT Jack first.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:30:16 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : Thanks. I have already done that very thing. No line noise & no signal on the line tester (green LED is off) when the white data cable is unplugged, but I do get a dial tone when my desk phone is plugged directly into the phone port on the RG. When that same cable is plugged into the "Phone Line" port on the back of the RG the off-hook stutter tone starts immediately and when I test each of the extension jacks with the line tester the light is a steady green, indicating that they are "live", even though they're being activated by the off-hook signal. As I mentioned, the setup has worked fine for months since the installation with no problem whatsoever; this problem just cropped-up out of nowhere AND it went away for about a day and then came back again. No event has happened in my house which would cause a cable to come loose or some-such, no repair work, no nothing. Also, I have never lost my Internet connection through all of this. Not much rhyme or reason here.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 20:01:36 EDT

NetFixer posted : It sounds to me as if the installer did not properly disconnect your inside telco wiring from the AT&T network.

If you disconnect the white cable going to the RG's phone jack, and connect a phone to an in-house telco jack, do you hear any dial-tone or noise in the handset? It should be totally quiet since there should be no voltage or signal at all on the inside telco wiring if the installer wired the NID for U-verse Voice properly. An inexpensive telephone wiring tester can be ordered from Amazon or Walmart, and if you plug that tester into any existing telco jack in your residence (with the white cable disconnected), there should be no LEDs illuminated on the tester:

»www.walmart.com/ip/Gb-Ga ··· 21271626

[att=1]

»www.amazon.com/Gardner-B ··· e+tester

[att=2]

I have had one of the GBI testers that I show from Amazon for many years (I keep it in my notebook bag to test "foreign" telco jacks). I purchased mine locally from Lowes, but they don't currently list it as an available product on their web site.

OTOH, you could just tell AT&T that your phones don't work when plugged into your existing home telco jacks, and let them do the troubleshooting, but my past experiences with AT&T, tells me that might not happen very quickly (if at all).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 16:43:03 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : The condition is an off-hook one in which the phone line is unusable while it's in that state. I'm well aware of what a voicemail waiting stutter tone is and it's completely different from the stutter tone you get when a receiver is off-hook (or some condition which mimics a receiver being off-hook). If that's all it was I wouldn't be posting on this Forum; I would have simply retrieved the voicemail.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 16:34:02 EDT

anon posted :

said by Travis_Lloyd:

Any thoughts on why I keep getting an immediate off-hook stutter tone as soon as I plug the white cable into the "Phone Line" port on the back of the RG?

Maybe you have a voice mail waiting.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 15:44:20 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : Thanks for that explanation; I now know what an AB Jack is, anyway. Any thoughts on why I keep getting an immediate off-hook stutter tone as soon as I plug the white cable into the "Phone Line" port on the back of the RG? I have nothing else on the line (such as a security system) and I've tested each of the 3 extension jacks with a line tester and they all show green. FYI, all of the phones are disconnected from the extension jacks when I've run my test as well. The dial tone comes back immediately when I plug my desk phone directly into the Phone Line port on the RG. My suspicion is that the AB Jack is malfunctioning but I'm open for alternative suggestions; this problem has come and gone twice now but at this moment it is continuing.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 11:13:37 EDT

ILpt4U posted : That is called the AT&T Branded Jack -- the theory is, it is an indoor point of demarcation or test jack.

If wired correctly, it should have 4 home ran pairs from the NID to that jack -- 2 as a forward feed to the Green port, and 2 as a backfeed back to the NID

From that point, a modem can be connected to the Green port for internet only to a dedicated jack, VoIP can be backfeed back to the NID and the normal phone IW via the gray port, and if a customer wants straight pots, using a phone cord and jumping the green and gray jacks together, basically is the same function as the test jack and test plug that is typically outside in a standard NID anyway

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 04:57:35 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : Thanks. I think I mentioned in my post that I had both U-verse voice & data (but no TV), and I made sure I had a backup battery in the NVG589 from the get-go. In fact, I had to remove it to completely reboot & reset the RG when I had the initial glitch because the battery was keeping the phone line up and perpetuating the problem. Please note that I've had no power outages whatsoever. As I stated, this unit has worked flawlessly until a couple of days ago, when this problem just appeared out of the blue; no bad weather or any other external event which might have caused the malfunction; it's a very strange situation which I've never run into before. My line-checker shows green on every phone jack in the house, even while the off-hook "stutter tone" is going on.

Re: New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 04:16:52 EDT

Pseudo Fiber posted : Not sure of the name, but essentially it's a dedicated Home Run of the DSL line and then a jack connected to the rest of your inside wiring.

Sounds like you have UVERSE VoIP which is why you see that cord going from the modem to your phone jack. That NVG589 creates the dial tone and sends it back into your home, in a power failure you dial tone depends on that modem to stay up so you may want to check into a battery backup option for the modem.

New Wall Mount Device With 2 RJ-11 Jacks

Thu, 19 May 2016 03:10:06 EDT

Travis_Lloyd posted : I fairly recently upgraded from my old legacy DSL and POTS to U-verse voice & data (no TV). My installer ran the usual Cat5e cable from the demarc and back-fed it to my junction terminal so all of my extension phones would still work. He also installed an Arris NVG589 RG along with something I've never seen before; a white wall-mounted device which is the size of a standard wall plate but which has 2 RJ-11 jacks in the front which has 2 data cables, a white one & a green one which run from the device to the RG. The green one plugs into the DSL port and the white one plugs into the phone port. They located the new unit right beside my old existing phone jack on the baseboard, where my desk phone is still plugged into.

1st of all, what is this new device called? This is the first time I've ever seen one. 2nd of all, what is its exact function?

Up to now everything has worked fine but suddenly, without explanation, for about a minute I get an "off-hook" (rapid beeping) signal on the phone and then the line goes dead and the "Phone 1" light on the front of the RG starts flashing. I'm guessing that's because after the line is off-hook for so long the line essentially goes dormant. When I disconnect the white cable and plug my desk phone directly into the phone port on the back of the RG and then reboot the thing I get a dialtone back in short order and the light is once again solid. I've gone through the usual troubleshooting steps of unplugging all of my extension phones from the wall jacks and double-checking the wiring to ensure that it's properly connected to the jack terminals and doesn't have any shorts but when I plug the white cable back into the RG and plug my extension phones back into their respective jacks I get a dialtone again and everything works fine for about a day and then, out of the blue, I have the same problem again. And then when I repeat the troubleshooting steps I just outlined above my dialtone immediately returns and I'm back to normal once more. My suspicion is that it has something to do with the new wall-mounted device because if it was a wiring short it would be continuous and not subside for a day and then manifest itself again. Also, nothing has changed inside of the house (like an earthquake or anything) which would suddenly cause the wiring to short-out to begin with; it's always been as solid as a rock without any line noise whatsoever. But before I can do any more advanced troubleshooting I need to know what to call the new piece of equipment they installed and be apprised of its function - my gut instinct is that's where my problem lies, unless it's some weird intermittent glitch with the RG. It's worth noting that throughout all of this my broadband has been fine with no interruption of service at all, save for when I reboot the the RG; only the phone service has gone down. As an aside, I've inspected all the wiring inside the demarc and it's in good shape; no IDC connectors messed-up & no crimped wires or corroded terminals or anything like that. Any suggestions (and the name of the new device) would be most welcome...