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MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Jerks on E-bikes

Was at one of the U-turn lanes on St. Clair West in "The Centre of the Known Universe (tm)" the other day. The light turns red for through traffic in both directions and then turns green for U-turn traffic.

I'm start my U-turn and as my front end swings past 90 degrees and my car is partially in the curb lane, a clown and his passenger on an E-bike comes whizzing through the red light and is nearly plastered over my right front fender. The idiot bitches at me for nearly hitting him, and when I tell him that he ran a red light, he says, "I'm a bike and I don't have to stop.".

My view on idiot pedestrians and cyclists is -- that for every idiot whose life I save, I should get a 'freebie'.
vintagewino
join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON
·TekSavvy Cable

vintagewino

Member

In no way do you want to be the instrument to make the Darwin Theorem work.

Yeah, E-bikes, regular bikes ...

Downtown Hamilton, they f**ked up Charlton St. W. a couple of months ago. A 2-lane + 1 lane parking, one way street. They put the bike lane on the right side, MOVED THE PARKING over ~1/2 lane (ticket payment boxes by the sidewalk), THEN one (1) lane for traffic, then a 1/2 lane for ??? ???? ????

2 lanes of traffic reduced to one on a busy street near the hospital. Wonderful thinking ... :/

The war against the car is on ... Nobody is safe ...

Anona9a27
@bell.ca

Anona9a27 to MaynardKrebs

Anon

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

The idiot bitches at me for nearly hitting him, and when I tell him that he ran a red light, he says, "I'm a bike and I don't have to stop.".


PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

The idiot bitches at me for nearly hitting him, and when I tell him that he ran a red light, he says, "I'm a bike and I don't have to stop.".

"I know this defies the law of gravity, but, you see, I never studied law!"

---Bugs Bunny (1948)

Now Bugs might get away with defying the law of gravity, but I suspect the biker will learn pretty soon that he can't defy the laws of physics, if not the HTA.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

and when I tell him that he ran a red light, he says, "I'm a bike and I don't have to stop.".

And people wonder why there's been an increase in bicycle related accidents...

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
Netgear R7000
Asus RT-N66
Hitron CODA-4582

nekkidtruth to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
While I wouldn't go so far as to force licensing, anyone who buys an e-bike or scooter should be required to at the very least take a day course in laws and road etiquette. Heck, make it 3 days. They would then get a certificate they'd have to carry.

Ohhh look...very license like.

FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
join:2010-02-26
Canada

FiReSTaRT to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
I call them electric scooters - the final refuge of the person who got nailed for drunk driving. I don't think anyone's ever turned the pedals on those even once. I think the provincial government needs to abort this mutant and regulate them the same way you'd regulate an internal combustion scooter - LSM, plates, insurance, no beer can holder.
FiReSTaRT

FiReSTaRT to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

Now Bugs might get away with defying the law of gravity, but I suspect the biker will learn pretty soon that he can't defy the laws of physics, if not the HTA.

Oh the cops won't touch'em with a 10' pole. Hell, they're even going too easy on motorised scooters. I see groups of unplated electric and IC scooters zipping through pedestrian/cyclist trails in a Toronto area park without anyone doing anything about it. Our corrupt government doesn't want to admit that this initiative of theirs should be aborted.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

I call them electric scooters - the final refuge of the person who got nailed for drunk driving. I don't think anyone's ever turned the pedals on those even once. I think the provincial government needs to abort this mutant and regulate them the same way you'd regulate an internal combustion scooter - LSM, plates, insurance, no beer can holder.

I've seen people around here just take the pedals off completely. The pedals/chain/sprocket are such hilarious design, just to adhere to regulation that they have to be there. They're completely ineffective, I've seen a guy pedaling once, its honestly faster walking.

joeblow3
join:2000-12-27
h0h0h0

joeblow3

Member

Then once the pedals are remove in the eyes of HTA they are now motorcycles.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

said by joeblow3:

Then once the pedals are remove in the eyes of HTA they are now motorcycles.

Yeah but I bet nobody's been pulled over and charged with driving without a license and insurance.
bobnoxe
join:2015-03-30
fiji

bobnoxe to FiReSTaRT

Member

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

said by PX Eliezer1:

Now Bugs might get away with defying the law of gravity, but I suspect the biker will learn pretty soon that he can't defy the laws of physics, if not the HTA.

Oh the cops won't touch'em with a 10' pole. Hell, they're even going too easy on motorised scooters. I see groups of unplated electric and IC scooters zipping through pedestrian/cyclist trails in a Toronto area park without anyone doing anything about it. Our corrupt government doesn't want to admit that this initiative of theirs should be aborted.

That's a local issue, you need bylaw enforcement for that, and they only (hardly) work M-F 9-5 and are busy hiding somewhere, like a good civil servant.

Anon8f739
@start.ca

Anon8f739 to FiReSTaRT

Anon

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

I call them electric scooters - the final refuge of the person who got nailed for drunk driving. I don't think anyone's ever turned the pedals on those even once. I think the provincial government needs to abort this mutant and regulate them the same way you'd regulate an internal combustion scooter - LSM, plates, insurance, no beer can holder.

That's just a knee-jerk reaction to the stupidity of a minority of e-bike riders. The proverbial pendulum is too far to the left at the moment, and you just want to swing it way over to the right.

Maybe we can meet in the middle....

Some regulation is required, of this there can be no dispute. License, plates, insurance is a bit much. But DOT helmet, single rider only, stay to the right side of the road where possible, and obey basic traffic laws. This is what the police are "suggesting". Just make it law, and educate people.

For the record, I see many 200lb cyclists ignoring the red lights at the corner here. Blow right through. And whenever that light turns red, at least one and usually several 3000lb cars do exactly the same thing.

The biggest problem we face up in our neighbourhood as citizens is the utter lack of police presence and law enforcement. There's virtually none. It's the wild wild west. Petty lawlessness if rampant.

Miscreant e-bike jockeys are the least of our worries. I'd much rather have TPS pay attention to the crack dealers in our parking lot at night and the 3 escorts running brothels out of their apartments in our building.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
I'll add a slightly different story.....

Driving north on Bay Street the other day during rush hour......
I'm stopped at a red light @ Bloor St. in the left lane, first car in line. The right lane is a bus/taxi lane.

An Audi A8 pulls into the bus lane about 30m north of Bloor and and parks (at rush hour). At the same time a woman steps off the curb and walks around the rear of the Audi and stops right beside the car just beside the aft edge of the driver's door, looking to jaywalk just 100' from a crosswalk. By this time I've got a green light and I start driving.

Just as I get close to the rear of the Audi, the Audi driver flings open his door without looking, knocking the woman off balance and her iPhone out from her hand, and she nearly falls under my front wheel as I pass by. Her iPhone isn't as lucky....it goes under the wheel of my car. Oh well.

Oh Darwin, where are you when I need you the most??
bobnoxe
join:2015-03-30
fiji

bobnoxe

Member

Don't worry John Tory has a plan for that, he's going to put in more mid street crossings so lazy pedestrians don't have to out of their way for a crosswalk.

The war on cars has returned.

Anon7db15
@bell.ca

Anon7db15 to FiReSTaRT

Anon

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

I call them electric scooters - the final refuge of the person who got nailed for drunk driving. I don't think anyone's ever turned the pedals on those even once. I think the provincial government needs to abort this mutant and regulate them the same way you'd regulate an internal combustion scooter - LSM, plates, insurance, no beer can holder.

Ebikes are motor vehicles under the criminal code - even though not under provincial law - which means if you have a drunk driving conviction and your license is suspended as part of the criminal sentence, you're guilty of driving while prohibited even if you're on an ebike. Likewise, you can be busted for all the same criminal laws related to impaired driving and alcohol on an ebike as you would in a car.

MyrddinEmrys
join:2011-11-29
Scarborough, ON

MyrddinEmrys to bobnoxe

Member

to bobnoxe
said by bobnoxe:

The war on cars has returned.

Really? That nugget? There has never been a war on cars, just political posturing/pandering.

TuxFan
join:2016-02-12
Zazeen

TuxFan to bobnoxe

Member

to bobnoxe
said by bobnoxe:

That's a local issue, you need bylaw enforcement for that, and they only (hardly) work M-F 9-5 and are busy hiding somewhere, like a good civil servant.

No it's not... If I got into a pickup truck and started driving down park trails, it would be the police who'd intervene. In the eyes of the law, a motor vehicle is a motor vehicle and a scooter with an internal combustion engine is a motor vehicle. There are also highway traffic act and criminal code charges that would apply to operating a motor vehicle in pedestrian areas if they endanger the public. Certain criminal code charges would also apply to operating those electric scooters even if the HTA treats them as "bicycle" because the criminal code goes beyond provincial legislation.
TuxFan

TuxFan to Anon7db15

Member

to Anon7db15
said by Anon7db15 :

Ebikes are motor vehicles under the criminal code - even though not under provincial law - which means if you have a drunk driving conviction and your license is suspended as part of the criminal sentence, you're guilty of driving while prohibited even if you're on an ebike. Likewise, you can be busted for all the same criminal laws related to impaired driving and alcohol on an ebike as you would in a car.

How often do electric scooters get pulled over by the police? I've never seen it happen in an area awash with irresponsibly operated electric scooters.
bobnoxe
join:2015-03-30
fiji

bobnoxe to TuxFan

Member

to TuxFan
You can't equate anebike with a pickup truck. I don';t think Ebikes are classifed as motor vehicles.
bobnoxe

bobnoxe to MyrddinEmrys

Member

to MyrddinEmrys
said by MyrddinEmrys:

said by bobnoxe:

The war on cars has returned.

Really? That nugget? There has never been a war on cars, just political posturing/pandering.

It's the damn truth in Toronto.
The fastest way in and out of downtown Toronto is Adelaide and Richmond streets But hey lets take away 2 lanes of traffic (and parking) to cater to the fair weather rider

Or how about Bloor street, between lost revenue and direct costs a trial bike lane will cost nearly $1m. The rub? They are only going to "study" traffic during the warm months, not during winter when only the hardcore riders are out.

Then you can add speedbumps on many streets.
John Tory wanting to add more mid street crossings.

Anon05fd1
@bell.ca

Anon05fd1 to TuxFan

Anon

to TuxFan
said by TuxFan:

How often do electric scooters get pulled over by the police? I've never seen it happen in an area awash with irresponsibly operated electric scooters.

I can't speak for a place like Toronto but in "smaller" communities where the cops don't see a lot of action the police know who the prohibited and suspended drivers are and keep tabs on them and their vehicles even if they're being driven by other people.

Often though, they won't stop someone on an ebike because the pragmatic view is that it's a "better" alternative than getting into a car. Someone on an ebike may annoy you, but unlike someone driving a car the only life they ever risk by their bad driving is their own.

Anon7db15
@bell.ca

Anon7db15 to bobnoxe

Anon

to bobnoxe
said by bobnoxe:

You can't equate anebike with a pickup truck. I don';t think Ebikes are classifed as motor vehicles.

Under the Highway Traffic Act they are not motor vehicles. Under the Criminal Code of Canada they are. You can't get busted for criminal charges like impaired driving or dangerous driving on a bicycle, but you can on an ebike.
bobnoxe
join:2015-03-30
fiji

bobnoxe

Member

said by Anon7db15 :

said by bobnoxe:

You can't equate anebike with a pickup truck. I don';t think Ebikes are classifed as motor vehicles.

Under the Highway Traffic Act they are not motor vehicles. Under the Criminal Code of Canada they are. You can't get busted for criminal charges like impaired driving or dangerous driving on a bicycle, but you can on an ebike.

That's fine, but we're talking about ride an ebike on a path in the park, which is strictly a local bylaw issue.

TuxFan
join:2016-02-12
Zazeen

TuxFan

Member

said by bobnoxe:

That's fine, but we're talking about ride an ebike on a path in the park, which is strictly a local bylaw issue.

Dangerous operation of motor vehicles, vessels and aircraft falls under the Criminal Code, which doesn't care whether your province designates your electric scooter as a bicycle or a back-scratcher.
Dcite
join:2006-05-12
Mississauga, ON

Dcite to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
Does the E-Bike rules only apply to Electric Scooters with Pedals attached to them?
Or does it also apply to Mountain Bicycles with small electric motors attached to them? (You can actually pedal these ones and get somewhere faster than walking.)
tpiazrule
Premium Member
join:2015-07-26

tpiazrule to Anon7db15

Premium Member

to Anon7db15
said by Anon7db15 :

said by bobnoxe:

You can't equate anebike with a pickup truck. I don';t think Ebikes are classifed as motor vehicles.

Under the Highway Traffic Act they are not motor vehicles. Under the Criminal Code of Canada they are. You can't get busted for criminal charges like impaired driving or dangerous driving on a bicycle, but you can on an ebike.

You can't be charged with impaired driving on a bicycle but you can most definitely be charged with public intoxication or careless driving.

TuxFan
join:2016-02-12
Zazeen

TuxFan to Dcite

Member

to Dcite
said by Dcite:

Does the E-Bike rules only apply to Electric Scooters with Pedals attached to them?
Or does it also apply to Mountain Bicycles with small electric motors attached to them? (You can actually pedal these ones and get somewhere faster than walking.)

The legislation was meant for proper bicycles with a bit of a power assist to handle inclines. It led to the proliferation of electric scooters, instead. Reverting the changes caused by this failed legislation would cause too much of an uproar among our current provincial government's power base, so they are not making any changes. That's why, if you operate an internal combustion scooter, you have to get a license, plates and insurance, but don't need to do it if the motor's electric as long as it has a couple of useless pedals attached (and even that provision isn't really being enforced).

MyrddinEmrys
join:2011-11-29
Scarborough, ON

MyrddinEmrys to bobnoxe

Member

to bobnoxe
said by bobnoxe:

It's the damn truth in Toronto.

No it's not, it's a diversionary tactic at best.

The fastest way in and out of downtown Toronto is Adelaide and Richmond streets But hey lets take away 2 lanes of traffic (and parking) to cater to the fair weather rider

Yep, no argument there, Adelaide and Richmond are the best in traveling downtown, that's why parking was removed to increase the flow of ALL traffic and cut down on congestion.

Or how about Bloor street, between lost revenue and direct costs a trial bike lane will cost nearly $1m. The rub? They are only going to "study" traffic during the warm months, not during winter when only the hardcore riders are out.

Lost revenue to who? And yes there are cyclers all year round, that also includes Adelaide and Richmond. The costs of projects are always a concern, especially when contrary actions to collected data, like Jarvis, incurs a butt load more of taxpayers' money to please a minority. ~$1m is if they remove the lanes from Bloor if the trial is unsuccessful, ~$500,000 is the build cost. One point that you didn't mention is how at least the Bloor projects connects with other bike lanes to a make a more connected network.

Studying the Bloor project in only 10 months of the years is concerning

Then you can add speedbumps on many streets.
John Tory wanting to add more mid street crossings.

Traffic controls. Speed bumps enforce speed limits because drivers feel speed limits are just a suggestion for them. Mid-street crossings (more important when you have longer blocks like in Scarborough) are for cutting down jaywalking and provide a safer crossing without creating more traffic light controlled intersections, increasing flow for traffic. The latter is also needed due to the by-laws stating where you can put a lighted intersection which does not at all suit the needs of the areas' pedestrians.
bobnoxe
join:2015-03-30
fiji

bobnoxe

Member

They took out the parking spots so GreenP(read the city) is losing revenue.

... and the net loss of revenue to Toronto Parking as a result would be $840,000 a year "

Link

Yes there are year round cyclists and I used to be one, but never ever rode on Bloor/Danforth, both lousy rides due to the number of unsynchronized traffic lights. They are only "counting" riders during fair weather , not during winter months, which will skew the results.

No speed bumps are put in place to keep the nimbys happy, i guess you missed the part where it's actually affecting emergency services too.