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Verizon FiOS TV → Re: Preliminary Full IPTV discussion

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This is a sub-selection from Preliminary Full IPTV discussion

crgauth join:2004-05-18 Glen Burnie, MD	crgauth to Sixto Member 2017-Mar-4 4:06 pm to Sixto Re: Preliminary Full IPTV discussion said by Sixto: Things I'm curious about ... QAM and IPTV interoperable in the same home. Don't see any way they can. New service uses a totally different ont that has no reason to have coax connections or qam as stbs are all IP.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 4:06 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4 ·Verizon Wireless Greenwave FiOS-G1100 Actiontec WCB6200Q 1 edit	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 5:32 pm more coming, but here's some prelim. answers: There is HEVC for 4k (UHD) MPEG4 using MPEG-DASH will be the delivery... The DVR is attached to the BHR, and will not have any video connections. Its "like" network attached storage, but can not be used for anything but IPTV video. Asked about HDR. Also, regarding lack of channel numbers. the idea with IPTV system is you're watching shows not channels. Say you want to watch Friends, or the local baseball game. Do you really care what channel it's on? no, you just want to watch it. Of course, you can still navigate by channel and everything it's just more of an emphasis on WHAT you're watching, not where.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 5:32 pm · (locked)
webcobbler join:2013-03-09 Rumson, NJ 4 edits	webcobbler Member 2017-Mar-4 5:39 pm MPEG Dash is a medium that is agnostic. Is is not MPEG-4 specific. What do you mean by the DVR is attached to the new Hybrid ONT/Router? Is the capacity still 1TB? So it is not Cloud Based, I guess. By what you have said, It seems that it is still a physical Hard Drive then. Just not Built in to the DVR boxes as we know them today. So there will be channel numbers still? So ESPN will still be 570, and we can input it in, instead of remembering what shows are with what icons? And Yes, we care what channel it is on. Knowing the channel something is on indicates that it is, or it is not a part of ones TV package. You mentioned you asked about HDR. What was the answer? Also I am assuming these IP boxes are HTML5, just like the Quantum boxes are. Is that Correct?
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 5:39 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 5:39 pm i am just reposted exactly what was told to me
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 5:39 pm · (locked)
Sixto Premium Member join:2005-09-16 Northeast	Sixto to crgauth Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 6:04 pm to crgauth said by crgauth: Don't see any way they can. New service uses a totally different ont that has no reason to have coax connections or qam as stbs are all IP. As stated above, it may be possible for old GPON ONT to support IPTV. Open question is whether both QAM and IPTV will be allowed at the same time.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 6:04 pm · (locked)
Sixto	Sixto to Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 6:09 pm to Branch Hmmm. Very interesting. What do we think BHR stands for? Broadband Hybrid Router? That would indicate that the storage is in the router which I'd think would rule out working with the old ONT.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 6:09 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 6:12 pm It's the router, sorry.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 6:12 pm · (locked)
matcarl Premium Member join:2007-03-09 Franklin Square, NY 2 edits	matcarl Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 8:03 pm It's not based off what program you are watching. Of course it's still channel, but instead of channel numbers, it looks like the networks might just be in alphabetical order by network name. They aren't showing individual programs like VOD, it's still the networks, you just have to know the network name, like FX and look for it alphabetically instead of a channel number. I'm guessing they would be in alphabetical order or some type of an order, or no one will ever find the network they want to watch, it must be sortable in a few different ways.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 8:03 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 9:43 pm said by matcarl: it must be sortable in a few different ways. correct
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 9:43 pm · (locked)
crgauth join:2004-05-18 Glen Burnie, MD	crgauth to Sixto Member 2017-Mar-4 9:59 pm to Sixto The articles shown are only referencing the new service on the new ont/stbs. So unless the decide to also offer it on quantum HW, then my answer stands.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 9:59 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-4 10:21 pm Quantum WILL NOT support IPTV.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-4 10:21 pm · (locked)
nowayout join:2009-06-22 Allentown, PA	nowayout Member 2017-Mar-5 8:16 am The Light Reading article talks about a smaller DVR box, so it would seem they'll still be around. So I'm wondering about the actual purpose of a headless hard drive on the ONT/Router. Could it be intended for the non-DVR 3-day look back feature?
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 8:16 am · (locked)

Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 8:28 am i believe there still is a "main" dvr box that uses the headless HDD, though i'm not sure.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 8:28 am · (locked)
johnf2 VHO8 Premium Member join:2001-12-31 Feasterville Trevose, PA	johnf2 to nowayout Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 3:16 pm to nowayout said by nowayout: So I'm wondering about the actual purpose of a headless hard drive on the ONT/Router. Could it be intended for the non-DVR 3-day look back feature? What is a Headless Hard Drive? Thanks! johnf2
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 3:16 pm · (locked)
Sixto Premium Member join:2005-09-16 Northeast	Sixto Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 3:42 pm Headless is when you have a box but no video output directly capable from that box. In this case, the discussion was that the router may contain the hard drive and the client boxes would access the hard drive remotely, and then they would have video output capability (HDMI, Component, ...).
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 3:42 pm · (locked)

johnf2 VHO8 Premium Member join:2001-12-31 Feasterville Trevose, PA	johnf2 Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 3:54 pm said by Sixto: Headless is when you have a box but no video output directly capable from that box. In this case, the discussion was that the router may contain the hard drive and the client boxes would access the hard drive remotely, and then they would have video output capability (HDMI, Component, ...). Thanks Sixto for the Headless explanation. johnf2
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 3:54 pm · (locked)
webcobbler join:2013-03-09 Rumson, NJ	webcobbler to Sixto Member 2017-Mar-5 4:08 pm to Sixto said by Sixto: Headless is when you have a box but no video output directly capable from that box. In this case, the discussion was that the router may contain the hard drive and the client boxes would access the hard drive remotely, and then they would have video output capability (HDMI, Component, ...). Then why not just get rid if the Hard Drive altogether, and all recordings would be in "the Cloud" on Verizon's own Servers? I mean if OTT streaming services like Amazon, Sling, and so on can do it, as well as Comcast in the near future, it would make sense that they can with this IPTV platform, as well.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 4:08 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 4:32 pm Just got a lot of info, on phone now so I can't retype, expect a post tonight.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 4:32 pm · (locked)
CeeZee join:2007-04-11 Wynnewood, PA	CeeZee to webcobbler Member 2017-Mar-5 5:39 pm to webcobbler said by webcobbler: said by Sixto: Headless is when you have a box but no video output directly capable from that box. In this case, the discussion was that the router may contain the hard drive and the client boxes would access the hard drive remotely, and then they would have video output capability (HDMI, Component, ...). Then why not just get rid if the Hard Drive altogether, and all recordings would be in "the Cloud" on Verizon's own Servers? I mean if OTT streaming services like Amazon, Sling, and so on can do it, as well as Comcast in the near future, it would make sense that they can with this IPTV platform, as well. I wouldn't like this. That means if your internet is down you're out of luck. At least now the recordings you made are stored locally and available as long as you have power.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 5:39 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4 ·Verizon Wireless Greenwave FiOS-G1100 Actiontec WCB6200Q	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 8:46 pm [more info, straight from the source! my comments/additions for clarity are in brackets] Hard drive capacity will be larger since the current support for 12 streams in 2 TB. There may or my not be a tie up between number of stream and the size of the drive. Since we are moving to mostly HD, 1 TB may not has the same "value" as it did with SD and HD duplication.... [tl;dr, more dvr space] On the channel grouping. There is an alphabetical [option], but that is a not a filter on the [main] grid. Its a seperate key function. The grid is by group tags... News, Sports, Locals, [etc]. Some content contracts require that their channel be 2 or more assignments away from another channel. That was out way of keeping the contracts whole IPTV will be on the GPON ONTs...The network for BPON is so limited in network bandwidth in the CO, at the OLT, there was not way to upgrade them for IPTV [re: QAM and IPTV together] IPTV will be a whole home solution. You will never see that model with any QAM delivery with an IPTV. we will be disconnecting the QAM modulator on the ONT. [regarding HDR, it's unclear if boxes will have it or not]
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 8:46 pm · (locked)
webcobbler join:2013-03-09 Rumson, NJ 3 edits	webcobbler Member 2017-Mar-5 9:29 pm If some of it is true, then it is still not all that exciting, IMO. One: A 2TB HDD instead of the 1TB we all have now is great. It will come in handy for recording 4K channels, which takes up more space than a regular HD channel recording does. Two: Will there still be Tuners like the VMS has, or has that gone away ? Given it is IP. Or has the number of Tuners doubled to 12 now for each DVR? Three: So channel numbers are now gone, and say the ESPN channels still need to be grouped together. That makes sense, easier to find. As is the case now. So current GPON's will be backwards compatible with the IP system. A tech would need to come out and disconnect the QAM part of the GPON. Is that correct? Then is the G1100 Router backwards compatible as well? I assume we need to hook up these boxes via Ethernet, since Coax with these boxes is no longer used. If these boxes do not have HDR in today's tech age, that is inexcusable, IMO. Unless, they could add it with a Firmware Update ( like Sony did with their PS4 consoles ). Four: What about Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) ? They would definitely need this if they will hand any 4k channels at all. Maybe that will be in a Firmware Update, as well. Five: What version of HDMI do these boxes have? 2.0b or 2.1? Finally, do the IPTV boxes have all the same features and functionality that we have now with the Quantum boxes? Similar to how the Legacy boxes have the same UI and some features we have with Quantum. All that being said, I think the best bet for people who will get these boxes, is just to change out everything, and use the new Hybrid ONT/Router and connect Ethernet to the boxes. It is just easier, IMO that trying to make it all backwards compatible with one's current GPON and Router.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 9:29 pm · (locked)
Sixto Premium Member join:2005-09-16 Northeast	Sixto to Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 9:46 pm to Branch Thanks Branch. Any info is certainly much appreciated, no matter how sketchy. You're the only source! This seems to imply that the old GPON network will be used and not necessarily a new wave length that multicasts IPTV, but thinking I don't know enough yet as to whether that's a bad thing. I'm thinking that QAM needs physical tuners, but IPTV just needs a processor that can handle a large number of simultaneous streams, and it's limited to what a processor can handle. If the hard drive is in the headless router, can't imagine how a DVR could work on the old ONT without the new router, with the new router having the ONT built-in I thought. Again, thanks for any and all info.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 9:46 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-5 9:59 pm i'd imagine one iptv box has a built in HDD, but i'm trying to confirm.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-5 9:59 pm · (locked)
aaronwt Premium Member join:2004-11-07 Woodbridge, VA Asus RT-N56U Asus RT-ACRH13 2 edits	aaronwt to Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-6 3:17 pm to Branch said by Branch: more coming, but here's some prelim. answers: There is HEVC for 4k (UHD) MPEG4 using MPEG-DASH will be the delivery... The DVR is attached to the BHR, and will not have any video connections. Its "like" network attached storage, but can not be used for anything but IPTV video. Asked about HDR. Also, regarding lack of channel numbers. the idea with IPTV system is you're watching shows not channels. Say you want to watch Friends, or the local baseball game. Do you really care what channel it's on? no, you just want to watch it. Of course, you can still navigate by channel and everything it's just more of an emphasis on WHAT you're watching, not where. So it's basically they way I've been watching TV for many, many years now? I'm curious what will happen since I currently use a couple of Bolts and a Roamio Pro on FiOS. I will continue using those until my current term is up. Although it sounds like I might be dropping FiOS TV completely if I won't be getting any new channels on QAM for my TiVos. I would be open to trying the IPTV solution from FiOS, but only if the extra costs are minimal. SInce using TiVos with FiOS for the last ten years has saved me four figures. And I have no desire to pay some extreme monthly rental fees to FiOS or anyone else. I will drop TV from FiOS/COmcast entirely before I do that. This could be the thing to force me to cut the cord for TV. I don't know. I hope not since right now TV is much cheaper for me on FiOS that when I first got FiOS ten years ago. As long as it stays inexpensive I have no problem trying out IPTV from FiOS. But I also will just as easily cut the TV cord if I have to.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 3:17 pm · (locked)
Sixto Premium Member join:2005-09-16 Northeast	Sixto Premium Member 2017-Mar-6 5:16 pm Thinking QAM with the TiVo's may be supported for the next decade+, lots of old boxes out there. The question is what will they add that is IPTV only, then we'll need to weigh the cost with the reward. While I'm very interested in this (IPTV) as a technology to play with, the Bolt+'s are perfect for my needs. Full 6-tuner buffering on each of the 3TB his/her boxes, never a recording conflict with the Roamio Plus handing the Mini's, the keyboard remote is A+ great, full separate MRV(Multi-room-viewing) unlike DirecTV, rock solid TV with no rain-fade, awesome TiVo app with full episode download capability, and just a small $4.99/mo fee for a few DVR's, this stuff paid for itself with all of the monthly rental savings for the past 3 years, just perfect. But then again I always like to play, thus interested in how the IPTV platform will perform, but in reality it will probably be less functional then what I have now, but who knows, and I am curious about 4K possibilities.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 5:16 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4 ·Verizon Wireless Greenwave FiOS-G1100 Actiontec WCB6200Q	Branch to webcobbler Premium Member 2017-Mar-6 8:37 pm to webcobbler said by webcobbler: One: A 2TB HDD instead of the 1TB we all have now is great. It will come in handy for recording 4K channels, which takes up more space than a regular HD channel recording does. Two: Will there still be Tuners like the VMS has, or has that gone away ? Given it is IP. Or has the number of Tuners doubled to 12 now for each DVR? Three: So channel numbers are now gone, and say the ESPN channels still need to be grouped together. That makes sense, easier to find. As is the case now. So current GPON's will be backwards compatible with the IP system. A tech would need to come out and disconnect the QAM part of the GPON. Is that correct? Then is the G1100 Router backwards compatible as well? I assume we need to hook up these boxes via Ethernet, since Coax with these boxes is no longer used. If these boxes do not have HDR in today's tech age, that is inexcusable, IMO. Unless, they could add it with a Firmware Update ( like Sony did with their PS4 consoles ). Four: What about Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) ? They would definitely need this if they will hand any 4k channels at all. Maybe that will be in a Firmware Update, as well. Five: What version of HDMI do these boxes have? 2.0b or 2.1? Finally, do the IPTV boxes have all the same features and functionality that we have now with the Quantum boxes? Similar to how the Legacy boxes have the same UI and some features we have with Quantum. All that being said, I think the best bet for people who will get these boxes, is just to change out everything, and use the new Hybrid ONT/Router and connect Ethernet to the boxes. It is just easier, IMO that trying to make it all backwards compatible with one's current GPON and Router. [my comments/additions for clarity] One: confirmed, nothing more at this time Two: 12 streams per home No Tech Visit to "disconnect" qam. The [ONT/Router Hybrid] will not support MOCA WAN, requires Ethernet, will not decode the 1550 wavelength for QAM. BHR4 [aka Quantum Gateway] is the first to support IPTV. The demo [ONT/Router Hybrid] is the next gen. Moca Lan works from BHR4, but no moca on [ONT/Router Hybrid] - Wifi is the preferred connection for IPTV, [ethernet and possibly coax, trying to confirm if STBs have coax as they actually might for people with FQG, is] a backup when home materials limit wifi reach There is HDR support when the provider offers the content that way. [for the record, I disagree that not having HDR is "inexcusable in today's tech age". HDR with 4k mass-market launched about a year ago. nonetheless, i'm still glad the boxes have it for future-proofing] Four: Not confirmed at this time. Five: At least HDMI 2.0 subversion is WIP and 2.1 would be on the radar as software update
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 8:37 pm · (locked)
webcobbler join:2013-03-09 Rumson, NJ 4 edits	webcobbler Member 2017-Mar-6 9:22 pm OK. One: That is good that they can remotely "disconnect" QAM. That saves a Tech visit. Two: I would have found it actually odd that the Hybrid ONT/ Router would have indeed supported MoCA. Ethernet is the default, which is very good. And expected IMO. Three: Wifi is the preferred method? Really? Not a direct connection via Ethernet? I would have thought WiFi would be the backup, not Ethernet. That should be the opposite. I really truly hope that these IPTV boxes ( both the next gen VMS DVR and Client boxes, respectively ) do indeed have an Ethernet port that is active. I say this because that is the ONLY method I will be using to connect this boxes in my House. Absolutely not by WiFi ( since it is not as reliable at all compared to Ethernet ), or Coax. All Ethernet for me. Four: If there is already support for HDR ( for what I assume you mean the TV channel providers offers it ) , then that means that it is already HDMI 2.0b. That version included support for HDR as well as Hybrid Log Gamma. Five: Well HDMI 2.0 is three years old. So as I said above, having HDR means that they already have the 2.0b version. And in turn can support Hybrid Log Gamma now, as well. HDMI 2.1 will not be a Software Upgrade. It requires new Cables as well as new Hardware. Finally, as I said in a post earlier, I think the best bet for people who will get these boxes is just to change out everything, and use the new Hybrid ONT/Router and connect Ethernet to the boxes. It is just easier, IMO than trying to make it all backwards compatible with one's current GPON and Router.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 9:22 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4 ·Verizon Wireless Greenwave FiOS-G1100 Actiontec WCB6200Q	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-6 9:54 pm said by webcobbler: I really truly hope that these IPTV boxes ( both the next gen VMS DVR and Client boxes, respectively ) do indeed have an Ethernet port that is active. I've said it does in basically every one of my relevant posts. They wouldn't do wifi only on the main boxes (there is the option for one super-small wifi only box, but it's not required). said by webcobbler: It is just easier, IMO than trying to make it all backwards compatible with one's current GPON and Router. Why do you say that? unlike quantum, which is "technically" compatible with BPON but not really, IPTV is fully compatible with Quantum router and GPON, and should not experience worse performance.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 9:54 pm · (locked)
webcobbler join:2013-03-09 Rumson, NJ 4 edits	webcobbler Member 2017-Mar-6 10:07 pm You said: unlike quantum, which is "technically" compatible with BPON but not really, IPTV is fully compatible with Quantum router and GPON, and should not experience worse performance. I highly doubt that. To say the least. You also said that WiFi is the preferred connection, and not Ethernet. So how am I suppose to know that they will support Ethernet? You should say that these boxes can be hooked up via Ethernet as well. And not leave that thought on ambiguous terms. The Hybrid ONT/Router was designed from the ground up for, and to work with these IPTV boxes. And the IPTV boxes were designed from the ground up to work with the Hybrid ONT/Router. Why would you want to have these new boxes on a system that was not designed for it? Maybe the GPON's will be technically capable of handling the IPTV boxes, but they were not designed to be. And that is why I said that having the new setup is better than trying to make it backwards compatible with current existing equipment.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 10:07 pm · (locked)
Branch :D Premium Member join:2014-07-22 VHO 4 ·Verizon Wireless Greenwave FiOS-G1100 Actiontec WCB6200Q	Branch Premium Member 2017-Mar-6 10:27 pm said by webcobbler: I highly doubt that [IPTV will work well with GPON]. To say the least. My sources tell me otherwise, but you of course have the right to doubt. said by webcobbler: You should say that these boxes can be hooked up via Ethernet as well. If you'd like me to say it again, these boxes can be hooked up via Ethernet. said by webcobbler: Why would you want to have these new boxes on a system that was not designed for it? Because you're happy with your current ONT and don't want a new one. I'm not touching my ONT. It's an exterior mount, so removing it would cause holes in my siding, which causes leaks. Also, where I have my FQG would require a very long fiber run.
	· actions · 2017-Mar-6 10:27 pm · (locked)

Forums → US ISPs non-cable → Verizon FiOS TV	« Set top box • [Channels] Changes in Ultimate »
page: 1 · 2 · next
This is a sub-selection from Preliminary Full IPTV discussion