 El QuintronFully Magnetized
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna ·Bell Fibe Internet
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to Octavean
Re: Iron fist teasersaid by Octavean:So I have been hearing that some critics are suggesting that the Netflix original "Iron Fist" has been white washed. I'm not going to get into the politics, but I feel I should put this here: The critics' reactions have been ridiculous. While I get that this is the case for other productions like Ghost in the Shell and Dr Strange (where a white person is playing an Asian Character) it clearly isn't the case for the Iron Fist. The Iron Fist, while having obvious cinematic and narrative flaws is pretty dead on as to what Danny Rand is, which has been discussed enough already.  |
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 ChaplainSo It Goes
Premium Member
join:2002-10-11
USA |
Chaplain
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 1:55 pm
Exactly, El Q.
I get it with the failed Avatar movie. They should have been played by actors of Asian descent. I mean, come on. I get it with Ghost in the Shell, and actually am rather miffed about ScaJo getting the part. Freaking frustrating.
But that's not the case here. Everything fits the bill. We don't need to change the race of characters just to satisfy someone's bullshit narrative. |
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 eksterHi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 2:09 pm
I disagree. The Ironfist shouldn't have went to a white guy, and the roles should have been given to citizens of the Seven Cities of Heaven. Why did they have some random Earthlings steal the parts from real citizens of the Seven Cities of Heaven and approriate their wonderful cultures? Those poor people are already grossly unrepresented.
I mean, can anyone here name a single show or movie with a single actor who is from the Seven Cities of Heaven? I'll even accept a minor 2 second role. Anyone? Yeah, I thought so too. |
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to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:The critics' reactions have been ridiculous. A buddy of mine linked me to a Canadian opinion page that criticized the show based on the reviews of other US media sites and it reads like the 'critic' may not have actually watched it himself. » thechronicleherald.ca/ar ··· -criticsSeriously, does that even read like he actually watched it? said by El Quintron: While I get that this is the case for other productions like Ghost in the Shell and Dr Strange (where a white person is playing an Asian Character) it clearly isn't the case for the Iron Fist. I agree but more for the sake of matching the source material more than anything else. ie. Heimdall shouldn't be black, The Gunslinger in my mind is a grizzled black haired Clint Eastwood in his late 40's, etc. (Ironically both examples portrayed by the same actor... ) Re: Dr. Strange, who was the white person playing an Asian? Keep in mind they also had a black person (Chiwetel Ejiofor) playing a white character, Baron Mordo was white in the comic. |
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ChaplainSo It Goes
Premium Member
join:2002-10-11
USA |
to ekster
But he is not originally from the Seven Cities of Heaven. He was transported there by the Monks who hail from that great nation. And, as I understand it, the flashback monks, as well as Davos, are all actors who can trace their ancestry back to the Seven Cities of Heaven, so that just debunks your theory all the way down to hell. |
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eksterHi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 2:42 pm
Yeah, But Danny stealing the Iron Fist and bringing it back to America is just the kind of shit cultule appropriating bastards do. He should've just died in that plane crash and kept his pasty ass out of the Seven Cities of Heaven. |
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ChaplainSo It Goes
Premium Member
join:2002-10-11
USA |
Chaplain
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 2:58 pm
He didn't ask to be taken to the Seven Cities. He was dragged there against his will, forced to adapt to their culture, then when he showed them all he was better than them at pretty much everything, and then was awarded their highest honor. That doesn't mean he's obligated to stay there. He's an American citizen! As far as I can see Dual Citizenship is not approved by either country and there is no reciprocity. The Iron Fist is now part of his body, so you can't pull any of your contraband crap arguments either. |
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eksterHi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 3:04 pm
You got me there. I forgot some countries don't allow dual citizenships while I am enjoying mine. I guess I will have to concede on that point. |
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ChaplainSo It Goes
Premium Member
join:2002-10-11
USA |
Chaplain
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 3:11 pm
It was a well fought exchange. Now if we can get them to stop making Slavics the bad guys in every movie we'd be getting somewhere. |
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eksterHi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 3:14 pm
I rather enjoy trying to decipher the horrible Bing translated Russian I keep hearing in the movies. |
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El QuintronFully Magnetized
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna ·Bell Fibe Internet
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to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:A buddy of mine linked me to a Canadian opinion page that criticized the show based on the reviews of other US media sites and it reads like the 'critic' may not have actually watched it himself. The piece appears to be a wire story from AP: quote:
EDITOR'S NOTE — Frazier Moore is a national television columnist for The Associated Press. Past stories are available at »bigstory.ap.org/content/ ··· er-moore
Be that as it may, there's a lot of assumptions by of the author, I searched twitter for all of this viewer furor about it, and most of it (viewer response) seems pretty favorable. Don't get me wrong, this is more like a 7/10, but if Metacritic is anything to go by, the audience has it pegged at 60% whereas the critics have it at 37%... I'm not a believer in conspiracies, but maybe the entertainment industry is tired of Netflix eating their lunch? said by urbanriot:Re: Dr. Strange, who was the white person playing an Asian? Keep in mind they also had a black person (Chiwetel Ejiofor) playing a white character, Baron Mordo was white in the comic. Tilda Swinton plays the immortal Tibetan Monk. |
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eksterHi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2017-Mar-24 4:56 pm
said by El Quintron:but if Metacritic is anything to go by, the audience has it pegged at 60% whereas the critics have it at 37%... I'm not a believer in conspiracies, but maybe the entertainment industry is tired of Netflix eating their lunch? I don't know if it's really the entertainment industry afraid of Netflix, or if Netflix' scripts don't fit into the same pattern that our beloved connoisseurs of the fine arts are used to and thus unable to create any coherent critique, but Netflix' shows have been getting a pretty low rate approval while the audience had a pretty high rate of approval since the days of House of Cards, and the gap has only been increasing. |
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El QuintronFully Magnetized
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna ·Bell Fibe Internet
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said by ekster:I don't know if it's really the entertainment industry afraid of Netflix, or if Netflix' scripts don't fit into the same pattern that our beloved connoisseurs of the fine arts are used to and thus unable to create any coherent critique, It's hard to say, without venturing into unfounded assumptions, but a consistent split with the norm when it comes to streaming services TV shows does make one wonder. I'd like to hear what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about it, or the Freakonomics crew... |
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to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:I'm not a believer in conspiracies, but maybe the entertainment industry is tired of Netflix eating their lunch? It's really strange, in my Facebook feed I'm getting all these Iron Fist updates from Netflix because friends of mine like Netflix, and they're regularly negative in response towards the Iron Fist updates ranging from how bad the choreography is compared to Daredevil, how ploddingly slow it is, how racist it is, how bad the acting is, yadda yadda yadda, like... piles of these comments that are upvoted. But then if you go to the Iron Fist Facebook page all the upvoted comments are positive. You can't see all this furor on the Netflix Facebook page either, but I think if you 'like' Netflix you'll start seeing this as it populates your feed. said by El Quintron:Tilda Swinton plays the immortal Tibetan Monk. Oh wowww, that's right, I totally missed that. She's so weird and sexless at times, nearly androgynous, and so good in that part that I forgot she was supposed to be a he with a fu manchu. IMO they made a good decision 'white washing' that part and 'black washing' Baron Mordo's part. |
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to Chaplain
said by Chaplain:Exactly, El Q.
I get it with the failed Avatar movie. They should have been played by actors of Asian descent. I mean, come on. I get it with Ghost in the Shell, and actually am rather miffed about ScaJo getting the part. Freaking frustrating.
But that's not the case here. Everything fits the bill. We don't need to change the race of characters just to satisfy someone's bullshit narrative. Actually I'm not totally in agreement with the Ghost in the Sell "Major" casting issue because I see her as an anime character that was quasi ambiguously defined, which, is often the case with anime. Look at Naruto and Bleach for example. Give a cartoon character blond hair and blue eyes then expect us to think they weren't supposed to be European because of their name doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. That is self inflicted confusion. In the case of the "Iron Fist" they are totally way off because the character wasn't altered for the Netflix series. They are not totally off when it comes to claims of cultural appropriation IMO but as I said before many projects have done this such as "Dances with Wolves", "The Last Samurai", "Marco Polo" and others as well as "Avatar". Project that have won awards and were well received,.... When I said "Avatar" I meant the 2009 James Cameron movie not the 2010 "Last Airbender" M Night Shymalan movie. In Avatar the story was indeed based on an Alien race on an alien planet but the story clearly used Native American Indians as a model / template. In the end, I don't think any of this should have an impact on the quality of the show overall and should not effect the overall reviews. Apparently many of the reviews are less then favorable and that contradicts my personal view of the series. Overall I'm really pleased with the show because I just find it entertaining. |
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El QuintronFully Magnetized
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna ·Bell Fibe Internet
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to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:regularly negative in response towards the Iron Fist updates ranging from how bad the choreography is compared to Daredevil, how ploddingly slow it is, how racist it is, how bad the acting is, yadda yadda yadda, like... piles of these comments that are upvoted. TBH I don't get it, it's not a slow show, and it's not racist. The only real criticism I have, is that the non-action dialog scenes with Danny are very poor, but they're not slow, just very awkwardly written. The idea criticism here (despite my disagreeing with it entirely) would have been that Danny's character M.O. has been done before. Even though that is the case it's well done, and Danny is so oblivious to just how much of a jackass he actually is that it makes the character that much more believable. But it's not racist, not by a long shot. |
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IMO all the other Marvel shows moved slower! Which I was great with! Jessica Jones rarely had any action and I think it took Daredevil ages to get the action ball rolling. It's funny, I googled a few keywords on Iron Fist and the first two top stories were: " Iron Fist is Marvel's Second Biggest Netflix Hit " followed by " Iron Fist: One simple change that could have saved Netflix's new Marvel series" ... which is it!? lol. Of course the second link with the obligatory "The lesson here is clear: diversity isn't just important, it can also make for much better television" - I have a feeling the writer wrote that for ideological reasons, without knowing the show may have actually done well. I say 'may have actually done well because' of the first link: quote:
The poor reviews and early negative attention created a situation in which Iron Fist might have become a flop for Marvel and Netflix. That’s not the case, however, as less than week after its premiere, the show is reportedly the streaming giant’s second biggest Marvel series yet.
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