Topic 'Re: High error counts on downstream channel?' in forum 'Networking' - dslreports.com

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 07 May 2017 17:34:21 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Well I'm on uverse now..it's better but I'm seeing random Crc jumps like this...problem is that I'm not sure what an "acceptable" level of uncorrectables is. What do you guys think?

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Mon, 01 May 2017 20:31:04 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Oh no, not at all. I completely understand where your coming from. The guy is an asshole no doubt. Customer service there is complete garabage as well.Half of the time I don't even want to call up there because all of the service reps are snobby as hell. I greatly appreciate all of the time to help me out from everyone on this thread.Even though I didn't get the problem resolved it still helped out a lot. Take care.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Mon, 01 May 2017 16:32:59 EDT

anon posted : My apologies if I seem annoyed or upset with you. That was not my intent. Instead, I was pissed at the guy. I have dealt personally with engineers like him and it's one of the reason I left the industry and went private. one of the reasons I post anom here too. It was nice working here with you and hope you don't have any more problems. cheers

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Mon, 01 May 2017 11:58:55 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Any moderators out there feel free to close this thread . Thanks guys and take care.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Mon, 01 May 2017 11:57:07 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah I already switched over to uverse anyways ..relatives are going to keep kraus for all their video streaming and such..just figured I would post that last pic for the hell of it.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Mon, 01 May 2017 10:22:47 EDT

anon posted : Doesn't mean anything to me without context and knowing how their small ISP works. I am going to bow out of this thread. I think I have said as much as I can and I really don't feel like trying to convince another engineer to do their job. Either he needs to fix it or show how it's inside your house. If not, switch ISPs...period. Good luck!

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:19:13 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Told me to run this by you guys..doesn't really seem to offer any more info than what's already been noted

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:58:28 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah I actually got Uverse activated today,just waiting on the RG to show up later on this week. Not going to keep at it with these people, doesn't seem like it will gain me anything but a headache.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 30 Apr 2017 16:51:43 EDT

anon posted : "And he wanted to bring up the fact that "look at your codeword errors in relation to the overall amount of data being received"

I think that statement perfectly frames his perspective. He is looking at all the packets and saying only a small percentage of them are lost. However for every packet that is lost, there are usually several others that are delayed or resent. This makes it affect applications that depend on latency (VOIP, UDP game, etc) more drastically. So he is basically admitting there is a problem, but in his opinion it is within confines of the service level. The question is; is he right? What level of service dependability is mentioned in their Terms of Service(ToS)? FCC says he has to scan once a year, but if he has, there are no rules to motivate him to do more than that. All the FCC will ask for is his last CLI sweep, he doesn't actually have to prove the network is without problems beyond lip service.

With all that said, we still don't know 100% it is a outside ingress problems. So far all data seems to fit that, and we haven't found any data to contradict it, but you don't have any hard proof. That is because to get hard proof you need to be a broadband technician with the required equipment.

I think you have two choices;

continue to isolate and cross reference the problem and keep having technicians come out to look at the problem until it becomes less expensive for them to actually fix the problem.

Or start creating a case to move to another ISP. If you're in contract, start looking at that contract for loopholes you can exploit. Start a paper trail, hard copies of everything said, and think like a lawyer.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 30 Apr 2017 13:08:59 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Disregard that..connected the modem straight to the drop outside.power pushed up to 4.8 but the SNR didn't budge.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sun, 30 Apr 2017 12:31:45 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Is it possible that I could be getting interfence from something in my basement. There are a ton of electric things down there, and the grounding block is right next to the breaker box..

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:41:00 EDT

bdnhsv posted : lower signal level coupled with steady noise floor = lower SNR

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:52:54 EDT

AaronPelton posted : And he wanted to bring up the fact that "look at your codeword errors in relation to the overall amount of data being received". Well yeah,that is the case with other 5 channels as well,so why is this particular channel(with lower levels than the rest)the only one giving off a crap load of codeword errors? Doesn't add up..

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:45:54 EDT

AaronPelton posted : I think he was mad because I'm not a pushover and was smart enough to realize there was a problem. Done my fair share of research on line stats and codeword errors to make sure I wasn't waisting their time on something that wasn't out of the ordinary,but something definitely is in this particular situation.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:42:41 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah something is going on for sure. There is a huge difference in line levels from my OP

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:41:47 EDT

bdnhsv posted : I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't want to admit it - I've seen that several times over the years with various cable companies. This particular company appears to be a small family owned shop and the guy you're dealing with is probably the founder or his son. So they take it very personally.

It's starting to sound like they may have one or more amps misbehaving.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:25:22 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Recommended upstream signal levels are +35 dBmV to +52 dBmV. (64 QAM) So barely within spec.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:10:19 EDT

AaronPelton posted : I think the guy knows what is wrong but is trying to cover it up. Ever since I contacted him about this I have been seeing some significant increases in line levels,some as much as 3db. Maybe they know there is a problem and are trying to correct it but just don't want to admit to it.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:02:54 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah I will see what I can do and update you guys

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:31:46 EDT

anon posted : When doing tests, make sure you test from a laptop or something with Windows. Tablets and iOS don't have fast enough browsers for a accurate test, especially when low on power.

As for T3 errors, those are typically a upstream problem. However, I don't think it's directly related to your issue. Getting T3 error isn't a big deal as long as you don't get too many in a row and you don't get them regularly. Your upstream levels do look low, but without being able to see the upstream SNR, I can't say it's bad or not. Also, they are using 64QAM modulation for upstream, which I am not as familiar with.

The main thing you want to focus on is the downstream channel at 123Mhz. Do you know anyone in your area who has your ISP that they could check their levels? If they also have low power and SNR on 123Mhz, you have a open/shut case to show the "engineer". Most ISP have tools that allow them to see all the modems in a area(SNMP) and their signal levels for tracking/trending problem, but it's possible your ISP doesn't or doesn't want to use them. If you can find someone at the ISP who has access to those tools, I think they should be able to isolate the ingress quickly.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:26:59 EDT

bdnhsv posted : The levels are still messed up - 123mhz should be up around 6-6.5. That would also increase the SNR for that stream to about 37db. Your US power levels are low - it's best when they are in the low to mid 40's.

Can you traceroute to the servers you're having trouble with and post some of those results?

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:11:23 EDT

AaronPelton posted : This is with a new modem as well. Upload just jumped back up to where it's suppose to be. What's weird is before I was pulling good speeds from sprint servers and crap speed from Comcast servers..now it's the other way around,and seems like the only server I can pull good speeds from is Comcast.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:05:17 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Ok well I've found that about 1 AM this morning the modem experienced a t3 timeout. Ever since then my upload speed has taken a dump and the servers that I was pulling good speeds from on Speedtest.net completely flip flopped on me. I also noticed that the SNR on DS channel 5 pushed up to around 34db as well as the power pushing up to around 3.80 db. Pulling good download speeds but the upload literally just sits at 0? The hell??

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 11:24:46 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah I know.. I was using it for more of a basis of"something isn't right with my ISP's network".

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:36:54 EDT

anon posted : Yea, your right. Not sure where those numbers got in my head. Maybe because I was looking at EuroDOCSIS thread earlier? Either way, my main point was Comcast typically don't use the 100Mhz-150Mhz range for downstream channels so asking if other people in the area on Comcast if they have a problem isn't a accurate test. Comcast might be using those frequencies for TV for all we know. You would need to ask someone else on your ISP in that area.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:14:27 EDT

defiant posted : Business service via fiber probably.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:12:27 EDT

AaronPelton posted : What's also weird is that when I check Comcast "business service " it's says available in my area.When I look up residential availability...no go.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:10:41 EDT

defiant posted :

said by Anon8650c :

Comcast wouldn't be affected by this ingress (if it is ingress) the same way as your current ISP because they use different frequency. Comcast are all on 1Ghz plants, unlike the 800Mhz or lower plant your ISP seems to be running. Most ISP use the 100-200Mhz for upstream channels and there is no way of knowing how local the ingress is.

Since when has Comcast gone to 1 GHz?

"Most ISPs" certainly do not use 100-200 MHz for upstream. Many are still utilizing 5-42 MHz.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:09:44 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yep,most likely.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:09:14 EDT

anon posted : From the sounds of it (although our data is very limited) , they escaped buyout by keeping their profits margins high by not fully investing in their network and maintenance. It's like why Walmart hasn't bought out the Dollar Store...no one wants them.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:08:51 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yeah and what's funny is..ever since I brought the issue up to him..db on one of the upstream channels has went down a db while the downstream SNR on adjacent frequencies has been pushed up a db. Still the same on the problem channel though.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:06:42 EDT

AaronPelton posted : ^^Exactly, so the question is..why haven't they?

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:05:34 EDT

anon posted : Comcast wouldn't be affected by this ingress (if it is ingress) the same way as your current ISP because they use different frequency. Comcast are all on 1Ghz plants, unlike the 800Mhz or lower plant your ISP seems to be running. Most ISP use the 100-200Mhz for upstream channels and there is no way of knowing how local the ingress is. The point is there is a obvious sign of ingress, and rather then the engineer say he would look into it (his job) he defended his network and said it was already done. If he wants to proof it, just climb up your pole with a meter and take a reading. The fact that he doesn't want to makes me think he is already aware of the problem, and has been for a while, but doesn't want to put the effort into fixing it. It's probably a money issue since they are a small ISP. Having a few customers leave over it is more profitable then investing 5K into CLI scanning time.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:03:02 EDT

bdnhsv posted : it's kind of interesting to see a small local cable company still operating in that area. I would have figured they would have been bought by a larger company somewhere along the way.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:59:02 EDT

AaronPelton posted : And from the reviews I've seen on kraus, if Comcast were to be available here, kraus would have alot bigger issues to worry about then just line ingress.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:56:18 EDT

AaronPelton posted : And sorry I probably should have specified that those friends i mentioned are in the joliet area ,about 5-10 miles from me.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:55:03 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Yes,they are.Unfortunately, no I can't. From what I've researched,kraus has the area "bought out" so Comcast couldn't expand into the area even if they wanted to.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:52:33 EDT

bdnhsv posted : looks like Kraus is pretty expensive. Can you get Comcast at your house?

»www.krausonline.com/serv ··· rnet.cfm

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:47:19 EDT

AaronPelton posted : All I know is a have a few friends out here wih Comcast and I don't see ANY of the discrepancies in their line stats as I do mine.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:43:50 EDT

AaronPelton posted : He's trying to play me for a fool, but I'm smarter than that.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:43:15 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Lololol idk about the first part but he does have a goatee LOL

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:20:39 EDT

anon posted : This is what I meant by a FCC report rubbing people the wrong way. Most engineers are used to doing things "their way" and anyone that tells them otherwise gets them mad. They like to think of customers as peons and when the peons stand up for themselves, the "king" gets mad. So pathetic. I bet this guy drives a Ninja to work and has a goatee.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:16:37 EDT

anon posted : That guy is a unprofessional jerk, and you can tell him I said that as someone who does the same job as him. He thinks his shiat don't stink when he works for a tiny local ISP. Hahahahaha. Ditch that ISP like a bad habit.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 08:53:13 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Trying a new modem today to see if it hanged anything,which I highly doubt it will. If not,it's back to U-Verse.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:02:16 EDT

Tursiops_G posted : Just a message from some 'Nobody' to Art Kraus:

Keeping your Outside Plant's Signal Egress/Ingress at a minimum is not the ONLY indication of providing a Decent Quality Of Service...

The Overall Amplitude Vs. Frequency 'Tilt' of the Downstream signal is ALSO an important indication of possible Outside Plant issues (Excessive Attenuation due to corroded/flooded Taps, Improperly balanced Line Amps, Damaged Cables, etc.), and is something that should warrant serious consideration as well...

Just My $0.02. :hmm:

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:55:32 EDT

Tursiops_G posted : Greater Than 30dB per spec. (AFAIK)...

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:38:54 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Last question. What really is the minimum SNR on a DOCSIS 3.0 downstream channel?

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:15:32 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Maybe the guy is telling the truth..maybe the modem is just faulty..I guess anything is possible.

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:07:25 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Going to try a new modem tomorrow and see what happens.Giving them the benefit of the doubt because I really don't want the issue to be pushed this far over internet .

Re: High error counts on downstream channel?

Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:06:17 EDT

AaronPelton posted : Wow,what a character this guy is..real professional eh?