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EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-12 4:54 pm VoIP.ms and Fax I know VoIP.ms does not support T38 faxing and only virtual faxing through their portal. We have a fax DID from VoIP.ms. I am trying to send and receive faxes with our Brother MFC-7220 fax machine through a GrandStream HT502 ATA. I have set the fax machine to the slowest baud rate of 9600 with ECM disabled. On the HT502 I have set the Fax Mode to Passthrough instead of T38. I have tried sending a virtual fax from VoIP.ms's portal with success. I have tried sending a fax from the Brother MFC-7220 to our VoIP.ms Fax DID number with success. I have tried sending a fax from the Brother MFC-7220 to a known fax number with failure after several attempts. We also use 2 VoIP providers, when I dial a fax number directly with 8x8's line we get a fax tone, but when we use our VoIP.ms DID number to dial the same fax number we only get a busy tone. Anyone have an explanation in why this is ?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-12 4:54 pm ·
suppafly Premium Member join:2009-11-27 97000	suppafly Premium Member 2017-Dec-13 11:59 am Have you tried using a different caller ID number for the outgoing calls?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 11:59 am ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 12:09 pm How do you mean ? Do you mean if I called from a different voice DID number to the fax number to see if I get a fax tone ? Then yes I call from a different DID number from the two different VoIP providers that we use.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 12:09 pm ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 to EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 2:21 pm to EdT Is the 8x8 line also hosted on the same HT502? If that gets a fax tone, try overwriting the 8x8 credentials and server settings with the voip.ms settings without changing anything else. If that works, compare the two settings pages to find the incorrect setting. If the 8x8 is on other hardware you'll need to perform more testing. Can the 8x8 hardware support another SIP account? Set your voip.ms credentials to a new line port (or line key). If you can't add another SIP account, try on other hardware or a softphone. Make a test call to a fax number. If you can hear the fax tones, it points to a configuration error in the Grandstream. On my newer Grandstream ATAs, any configuration error or loss of SIP registration results in a busy signal when attempting an outgoing call.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 2:21 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 2:40 pm Both the 8x8 and VoIP.ms DID accounts are on separate Polycom IP335 IP phones. Those two services are working perfectly so that is not the issue. I chatted with VoIP.ms's tech support and they say that it could be that their service will give a busy tone if they encounter a fax tone ...whatever ! Only the Brother MFC7200 fax machine is on the HT502 ATA.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 2:40 pm ·
mts join:2000-10-06 Lansing, MI	mts Member 2017-Dec-13 3:12 pm I ran into this issue with an HT502 before... and for the life of me I can't remember which setting on the ATA I changed to fix it. I realize this isn't much help, but I'll dig through my notes to see if I can refresh my memory.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 3:12 pm ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 to EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 3:43 pm to EdT While voip.ms may decline to offer T.38 support, I would consider it serious fault on their part if a normal voice call fails due to fax tones in the audio.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 3:43 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 5:32 pm What puzzles me is how it knows if it is a fax tone when it doesn't even have a chance to ring once ? It just goes into a busy tone.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 5:32 pm ·
suppafly Premium Member join:2009-11-27 97000	suppafly Premium Member 2017-Dec-13 6:47 pm Have you tried calling the fax number using a different outgoing caller ID number on your VoIP.ms account?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 6:47 pm ·
Stewart join:2005-07-13	Stewart to EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 7:23 pm to EdT said by EdT: ... but when we use our VoIP.ms DID number to dial the same fax number we only get a busy tone. This should not be hard to troubleshoot. First, make sure that you don't have any settings at VoIP.ms that would treat the destination number specially. For a failing attempt, what appears in the log at VoIP.ms? Nothing: The Grandstream's dialplan could be blocking the call, or the fax machine is formatting the number wrong. Test by connecting a standard phone to the same phone port on the GS, dialing 1 + areacode + number, then listening and looking at the log. An incorrect number: Use a standard phone as above, to determine whether the GS dialplan is rewriting the number. The correct number, but unanswered: I'd suspect that VoIP.ms is misrouting the call. They would have no way to 'encounter' a fax tone without the call being answered, in which case they would surely bill you for it. The correct number, answered: Using a standard phone, please post a recording of what is heard after dialing.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 7:23 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT to suppafly Member 2017-Dec-13 7:29 pm to suppafly Yes, we have 5 DID numbers with VoIP.ms on two separate servers with them and no fax tone.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 7:29 pm ·
EdT	EdT to Stewart Member 2017-Dec-13 7:36 pm to Stewart We are able to fax virtually from VoIP.ms user's portal. We are also able to fax straight from the fax machine that is connected to the ATA to the VoIP.ms fax DID number which shows "Sucess" in VoIP.ms's log. I hear a dial tone on the phone that is connected to the fax machine with the ATA.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 7:36 pm ·
Stewart join:2005-07-13	Stewart Member 2017-Dec-13 8:26 pm It seems that my question was not clearly stated. For a failing call attempt, made from the fax machine to the external (non-VoIP.ms) number, what (if anything) gets logged at VoIP.ms? What happens when you connect a standard phone to the relevant port on the Grandstream and dial the problematic number? BTW, I wouldn't expect "Success" from VoIP.ms, if they can't even spell it
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 8:26 pm ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 to EdT Member 2017-Dec-13 10:57 pm to EdT Please clarify. Are you hearing the busy tone when dialing a fax number using an analog phone connected to the HT502? This could be a result of a misconfiguration in the Grandstream. The busy tone is used as a generic error message by the Grandstream. If you hear a busy tone when dialing that fax number on your Polycom, there is a serious problem at voip.ms that you will not be able to fix in your equipment. You will have to wait for them to fix it or move to another VoIP provider.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 10:57 pm ·

Trev AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep Premium Member join:2009-06-29 Victoria, BC	Trev to EdT Premium Member 2017-Dec-13 11:33 pm to EdT My guess would be a T.38 reinvite is happening (if calling a fax gateway this would happen immediately after dialing) but something doesn't like it so instead of refusing the invite and remaining G.711 or whatever it's ending the call. Older versions of Asterisk had this trouble. Further I would guess it's a congestion signal that's heard, not a busy signal.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-13 11:33 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC 2 edits	EdT to bw5745 Member 2017-Dec-14 12:03 am to bw5745 "If you hear a busy tone when dialing that fax number on your Polycom" This ! I have VoIP.ms account on a Polycom phone: I get a busy signal "after" dialing the fax number I have a 8x8 account on another Polycom phone: I get the fax tone when "after" dialing the same fax number I am using a VoIP.ms Fax DID on the fax machine. I will try to see if I dial out with the Fax DID from the handset on the fax machine that is connected to the HT502 ATA to see it does the same thing when I am in the office later today.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 12:03 am ·
EdT	EdT to Trev Member 2017-Dec-14 12:17 am to Trev How can we fix this or is there a solution ?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 12:17 am ·
Stewart join:2005-07-13	Stewart Member 2017-Dec-14 12:40 am said by EdT: How can we fix this or is there a solution ? Assuming that Trev is right, if the gateway demands T.38, it may work correctly if you enable it on the 502, or if you replace the 502 with a newer ATA with better T.38 support. Possibly, you can change the routing at VoIP.ms (switch from Value to Premium or vice versa) and get better results. If you find out exactly what's going wrong, e.g. by capturing traffic, VoIP.ms may be able to configure a fix. Do you have an account with another provider that the 502 could route through? Given that the virtual fax works, why don't you just use that? Unless you have an unusual workflow, the document was likely generated on a computer. Fill it out and/or sign it on your computer and fax it virtually. Saves trees.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 12:40 am ·
Trev AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep Premium Member join:2009-06-29 Victoria, BC	Trev to EdT Premium Member 2017-Dec-14 1:06 am to EdT said by EdT: How can we fix this or is there a solution ? Well it depends where the problem is. If your provider is poorly handling T.38 and ending the call, they'd have to fix it. If they handle it fine but your Grandstream is acting poorly, that's where you'd have to implement the fix. I am not familiar with either so I can't help much but as Stewart mentioned a packet capture would help determine that. You're also welcome to call my fax number which is 250 then 412 and finally 6177 and send me a test fax. It will ring once fully and then answer with fax tones. Presumably with your setup you'd hear the ring and then hear the congestion or busy signal. I'll get an email each time you try calling but it won't otherwise annoy me so feel free to test a few times with this if you'd like. BTW check my other posts if you'd like to find another option that might handle your fax service a bit better with proper T.38 support. That way you can keep ECM enabled and leave your fax machine at full speed.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:06 am ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 to EdT Member 2017-Dec-14 1:12 am to EdT said by EdT: "If you hear a busy tone when dialing that fax number on your Polycom" This ! I have VoIP.ms account on a Polycom phone: I get a busy signal "after" dialing the fax number I have a 8x8 account on another Polycom phone: I get the fax tone when "after" dialing the same fax number I am using a VoIP.ms Fax DID on the fax machine. I will try to see if I dial out with the Fax DID from the handset on the fax machine that is connected to the HT502 ATA to see it does the same thing when I am in the office later today. »wiki.voip.ms/article/Virtual_Fax I don't use voip.ms but it looks like if you port a number to their Virtual Fax service, you can't use the number for voice calling. It can only be used via the voip.ms website. You need voice calling if you want to use a physical fax machine with an ATA. If normal outgoing voice calls are working on the Polycom, but an outgoing call to a fax number gives a busy tone, there is something serious wrong at voip.ms. An IP phone like your Polycom has no fax related features at all. You should always hear the fax tones and there is no way to screw up the settings to cause this fault. There's no point in trying the HT502 until voip.ms fixes the problem at their end.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:12 am ·
Trev AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep Premium Member join:2009-06-29 Victoria, BC	Trev Premium Member 2017-Dec-14 1:28 am said by bw5745: If normal outgoing voice calls are working on the Polycom, but an outgoing call to a fax number gives a busy tone, there is something serious wrong at voip.ms. An IP phone like your Polycom has no fax related features at all. You should always hear the fax tones and there is no way to screw up the settings to cause this fault. +1 that's a very valid point.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:28 am ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT to bw5745 Member 2017-Dec-14 1:40 pm to bw5745 Yup, this is exactly whats happening. VoIP.ms Voice DID: Call VoIP.ms Fax DID # = Works / Call Known Fax # = Busy Tone 8x8 Voice DID: Call VoIP.ms Fax DID # = Works / Call Known Fax # = Works VoIP.ms Fax DID: Call VoIP.ms Fax DID # = Works / Call Known Fax # = Busy Tone Chatted with VoIP.ms, they are not responsible for the fax to work if connected to an ATA, they are only responsible if you use their virtual fax through their portal. Our Known Fax number is a toll free number that we have with Freedom Voice so its another layer of virtual fax I guess. We have many clients that still use faxes, they sign a contract and fax it back to us like mom & pop businesses that don't even have a computer.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:40 pm ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 Member 2017-Dec-14 1:50 pm Are these voip.ms phones directly registering on voip.ms’s servers or are they registering on your own PBX? If they’re going through your PBX, there could be a configuration error. If the phones are directly registered I would be upset. Don’t even mention faxing to voip.ms. Make a list of twenty or so fax numbers at various businesses. Make the same test calls with 8x8 and voip.ms on your Polycoms. If they all fail the same way, send the list of numbers and complain like hell. Just say that the calls aren’t connecting while they work fine on your other providers.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:50 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-14 1:57 pm They are directly registered on VoIP.ms's portal all show green OK status. So you suggest I just mention VoIP.ms that calls are not going through insteading of telling of them they are fax numbers ?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 1:57 pm ·
bw5745 join:2014-03-14	bw5745 Member 2017-Dec-14 2:03 pm Yes. Making a big list of numbers should get their attention. Try searching for fax numbers at branches of the big banks or insurance companies. Mention the companies by name when listing the numbers. If you’ve been using a single test number so far, the problem might not be at voip.ms.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 2:03 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-14 2:57 pm This is getting weirder by the minute ...LoL I called several local fax numbers with VoIP.ms DID# and there is a fax tone, but some others is there is no tone or busy tones. I think it somehow does not work with virtual fax services, but only with real fax machines on the other side. I have no way of knowing if they have an actual fax machine on their side. When I try to call the 1-855-330-1239 with this test site I do not get any tone just silence. »faxanswers.com/answers/h ··· -machine
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 2:57 pm ·
Mango Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick. Premium Member join:2008-12-25 www.toao.net	Mango Premium Member 2017-Dec-14 3:55 pm said by EdT: I called several local fax numbers with VoIP.ms DID# and there is a fax tone, but some others is there is no tone or busy tones. It could be there is a specific carrier behaving improperly. VoIP.ms uses multiple carriers for outgoing calls. It's either random and it's luck of the draw that your call goes through, or they're doing LCR and your call will go through to some destinations but not others.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 3:55 pm ·
EdT join:2009-06-12 Saint-Laurent, QC	EdT Member 2017-Dec-14 4:17 pm Ok, I give up using VoIP.ms as a fax service, but I need to find another VoIP provider that we can resell fax service. Any good VoIP/Fax providers that will work with an ATA ?
	· actions · 2017-Dec-14 4:17 pm ·
Trev AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep Premium Member join:2009-06-29 Victoria, BC	Trev Premium Member 2017-Dec-15 11:51 am said by EdT: Ok, I give up using VoIP.ms as a fax service, but I need to find another VoIP provider that we can resell fax service. Any good VoIP/Fax providers that will work with an ATA ? This will work reliably for faxing »[General] Introducing DryVoIP™ - A Canadian BYOD VoIP Service Full disclosure: I am behind this service as you'll see on that thread.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-15 11:51 am ·
kevinds Premium Member join:2003-05-01 Calgary, AB	kevinds to EdT Premium Member 2017-Dec-15 1:00 pm to EdT said by EdT: Any good VoIP/Fax providers that will work with an ATA ? T38Fax.com I did a trial with them when I was looking for fax VoIP services, 100% perfect with an OBi202.. I am using Anveo Direct for faxing right now. Both allow reselling.
	· actions · 2017-Dec-15 1:00 pm ·

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