W.O.W. → Arris SB8200 vs. CM8200 for WOW Gigatopia?

I just swapped out an Arris SB6190 for an SB8200 to get the 500/50 package. All was well for a few months ... until they rolled out the "Gigatopia" plan and greed set in ... and now I am scheduled for an upgrade visit in 2 days.

The Wow salesie said I needed to use their new modem as well as their router as well. After a quick lesson in routers (I am running Pfsense) and an offline conversation with her tech guys she dropped the router claim, but stuck to her guns on using their modem. They are claiming that I cannot use my SB8200 although their compatibility webpage document shows the CM8200 is ok.

I have seen other posts (on this site, too) indicating that they are the same modem, just a rebrand. A separate call to Wow Tech Support tonight still refused to provision the SB8200 so I will appeal to the technician when they arrive Wednesday to try my modem first.

I would really rather not pay $7/mth for the CM8200 and have to lose my butt reselling the SB8200. Is anyone using the Arris SB8200 with the WOW Gigabit plan?

Thanks.

UPDATE: I called Arris this evening and confirmed that the SB8200 and CM8200 are technically identical devices. The difference is just marketing for the client to put their own name on it!

"UPDATE: I called Arris this evening and confirmed that the SB8200 and CM8200 are technically identical devices. The difference is just marketing for the client to put their own name on it!"

Glad to get confirmation on what most of us have been suspecting for a while now.

If you search back a few weeks I think you'll find a post or two from people who are running SB8200 on the gig plan. But they are having to hold onto the wow modem with the rental fee for the time being.

Curious. Why are they holding on to the rental modem? I have been using the SB8200 for a few months with the 500/50 plan and it has not failed. I'd really like to recover SOME of the money I put out for the SB8200 and the previous SB6190, and a few routers, too... Too much junk in the office.

WOW won't remove the rental fee for the Data 10 service. I tried. Since my 30 day grace period was up I switched back to my 500/50 service. Saving 20 +7 dollars a month now for more consistent speeds is worth it for me.

Its $70 monthly no contract for the 500/50 service here and $90 for the gig service no contract (its only a $10 break for 2 year so not worth it for me)

Also the speeds were very inconsistent. I have better service with 500/50. Off-peak times meaning early morning like 7am-12pm I could hit the 930 sometimes but any time after that it would drop down to 400-500 during peak times.

My 500/50 service I can consistently hit 600 during off-peak and 515 during peak hours no drop.

Happier now with with the 500 steady speeds and lower cost

I was told by their support over a year ago the sb8200 could be used on gigabit and I could return their modem. Long story short.. that rep was wrong.

After a visit to the local office and calls to their support I got enough credits to cover what I paid for the sb8200. I'm hoping they approve it before my credits run out.

Their modem is collecting dust until then.

And you will see plenty of other posts here where people have discovered that in fact, the two are NOT being treated the same by WOW and that the consumer model doesn't yet work.

This is not news to anyone who's spent any time here lately, or done a search--your wishes to the contrary notwithstanding.

WOW can choose not to support any given unit, and they've chosen not to support the consumer model of that unit. You can tilt at the "doesn't make sense" windmill all you want; that doesn't change a single thing about the situation.

You will need their unit. Accept that and move on.

No, they cannot choose to not support the SB8200. If the manufacturer states it is equivalent to a supported model and is purely for branding? WOW cannot legally refuse to support the SB8200. Period. FCC regulations require them to permit it because they have already validated the identical OE-branding model.

Arris would have to FUNCTIONALLY differentiate models by key features or RF components so that the CM8200 and SB8200 were no longer equivalent to make an argument that the case color matters.

Your foil hat is slipping.

He is actually right. There is FCC regulation §76.1201. The only two things are:

1. There is no written statement from Arris that SB8200 and CM8200 are two identical modems (even though they are)
2. WOW can simply claim that "electronic or physical harm is caused by the attachment or operation of SB8200" and good luck proving them otherwise.

Exactly.

Laws with no teeth aren't really laws.

Wow finished the install. After reading the ticket notes he remembered my wiring and config from a previous visit and didn't even bother bringing in their modem.
Things stalled at first with my SB8200 and after a few reprovisions and power cycles we switched to their CM8200 and the speeds hit 920+. We switched back to my SB8200, reprovisioned, power cycled, and it's now averaging 920-950 down and mid to high 40's up.

The only problem I have now is that Wow's billing system will not let them remove the $7 monthly charge for their CM8200 as it is "required" with a "tier 10" (aka gigabit) service. He fought with them for 30 minutes on the phone but got nowhere. From what I overheard on the conversation they are working on updating the billing system because they CAN remove the modem charge with the 500/50 package. And he got them to remove the other charge for their "Google router", which should not have even been there as I told them I was running a pfSense firewall/router when I ordered the service and didn't need their equipment ...

In the meantime he is working with his management to get me a monthly credit to cover the modem fee, at least until they can remove it.

Welcome the club... They have been working on getting their billing system "updated" to remove the fee and officially allow the SB8200 for quite a while now. Hopefully now there are more people pushing for this they may actually do it. But they gave me two one time credits and a recurring monthly credit to equal what I paid for the modem. Meanwhile their modem sits unused on my shelf...

If they're charging you $7/month anyway - why not to use their modem in the meantime while preserving your SB8200? CM8200 is provisioned by them and should be more stable than SB8200...

The tech was quite sure that he was going to get me a $7 refund for each monthly $7 charge so he took the modem with him. I'll give it a few weeks and check the next bill and start complaining if that's not the case.

I switch back and forth at times to compare when I think I may be having issues. I just put the sb8200 back on Sunday

In retrospect I probably should have just kept the thing and done that as well but a few years ago I dropped their phone and cable TV package and am now saving over $100/mth. I was enjoying paying only ~$70/mth for 500/50 internet and wanted to get the Gigabit package and pay as little as I could . I'll see how the performance goes and if it stinks, and they're still charging me for the modem without compensating then for sure I'll demand they bring it back.

Imagine that. Once again, I'm right. It's almost like I know what I'm talking about, right?Actually, a written statement is NOT required by 76.1201. ALL that is required is producing ANY documentation or statement (including email) which shows the modem is stated by the manufacturer to be considered functionally identical excluding cosmetics, branding, casing, or ornamentation.

Such as an Arris press release stating that the CM8200 and SB8200 are the same modem, and the SB8200 specifically is a retail package version.

Which was really, REALLY stupid of them. Because I put the data sheets side by side, and unless they really fucked up one of them? The CM8200 and SB8200 have totally different RF modules. It's like I'm dealing with unScientific Atlanta again, and I REALLY should have checked this the other day when I got pondering.

The SB8200 states a frequency range of 108MHz-1218MHz DS with a 108-258 diplex, while the CM8200 states it as 108-1002MHz DS with 85-108-258 diplex. The SB8200 says 5-85MHz US with 42-85 diplex; again the CM8200 is different with a seriously WTF moment of claiming 5-204MHz with a 42-85-204 diplex.

For those of you who do not know (which is most of you I imagine,) in North America, upstream as used in these documents is generally restricted to the 'T-Channel' space. T-Channel space is defined by the FCC as the low band of 7 to 55MHz (entry of T14 is 49MHz, 6MHz width.) On QAM scheme, the topmost available is A-7 which starts at 85MHz - meaning the SB8200 tops out at A-6.

The CM8200 in contrast, goes DEEP into Highband space. Letter 10 (yes, yes, don't yell at me. That's really what it's called.) You still cannot use those in North America for upstream. And these are not changes that can be made in software. The difference in DS top end alone would REQUIRE a different RF module.

Somebody needs to go beat the ever-loving snot out of Arris. Letting them buy the Motorola assets was almost as bad a decision as letting SA continue to exist after their third product. Or letting Cisco buy SA and find ways to make things worse.

RW:

So the hardware differences between the two -- do they make any difference? Is there any purpose/benefits to having the other bands/frequency ranges? Or for a consumer usage are the two still functionally identical despite having a different RF module?

From what I gather is the CM8200 has an RF module that could potentially be more 'future proof' that the SB8200. It's anyone's guess if it would be used before these modems become 'obsolete' when the next batch of modems come out.

I just bought the SB8200, do you recommend I return it then and go with WOWs modem? Im on the 600/40 up plan. Took a few days to get the sb8200 working but its finally online.

Paid $189.99

As I mentioned earlier it took a few reboots and reprovisions to get my SB8200 up into the mid 900's while the WOW tech was onsite. Unfortunately I have not managed to hit that speed again after a few tries at different times through the night and this morning (best is now 600-800).

I am seriously considering going back to the WOW modem. In retrospect, at least with their modem I can fight them tooth and nail to get the speed they are offering. With the SB version they can just slam the door on my fingers and the fight is over. I'll keep it through the weekend and document my Speedtest results then make a decision on Monday. As much as this is about the principle (and $200!), sometimes the fight is not worth the hassle.

I have the 600/40 up. I get around those speeds. I'm just afraid that this modem will be obsolete in a year. I just bought the 6190 last year for $$$

WOW only charges $7 and im tempted to just go that route.

Docsis 3.1 will be around for a while, but for $7/mth you get a free replacement modem from WOW anytime theirs dies. Something to be considered.

The sb8200 is fine and is a relatively new modem. Like Mrvelous01 said, depends on how much you want to save that $7

so....the ARE INDEED completely different units.

But it sounds like you want to hang onto that press release very tightly as "PROOF!" that they're the same.

Here's an idea: maybe the press release was just sales puffery, and the technical data sheets are the correct items?

The SB8200 is down once again. Reliability is 50/50. I may just go to WOW sometime and request a CM8200.

Thats possible right? I dont have to get their router/wifi combo

Yes, that's correct. You need only the cable modem.

According to the WOW technician you do NOT need their router if you have your own. At this moment I am using my own SB8200 and my own pfSense software firewall/DNS/DHCP/router running on an HP DL380 G6. I did not see their router device and I am not using their VOIP, so if their router supports VOIP and you need it, then they gotcha. Otherwise there should not be any reason to use theirs.

I am having literally the exact same issue that you had. Consistent speeds of the 500 tier regardless of the time of day, but gig service a lot of the time is actually slower than the 500 tier (except during ridiculous hours like 2 AM to 7 AM).

I think reading your post has inspired me to just revert back to the 500 tier and not deal with the headaches and more expenses involved on the gig tier until they iron out their issues.

Thank you.

I went to our local office after the launch of gigabit and they didn't have any in the office. She said they kept them under tight supervision at the installation building.