Hmm... Ive had mine since before they went on sale. I got one in advance. So ive had one longer then most humans. Im on Cox. At first I was on DOCSIS 3.0 32x4 and then went DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM months later. Ive NEVER had a issue. So for me its been as reliable as the 6183. Now and then Cox goes offline for various reasons, but, thats a ISP issue.
I also run Pingplotter on a separate computer and it pings once a second and its been running 7 years now. So I have charts with once a second checks for the whole time I have had the 8200. My charts go back to my 6183 too. So I have good testing showing latency now over a LONG time and also showing any issues. The 8200 has been far more solid then my ISP and my ISP has been stunningly solid.
Upstream power should be low. Higher upstream power levels indicate a issue with the connection. So your levels are perfect.
I recommend running multiping with 1.1.1.1 ( Or your ISP gateway ) as your target. »www.multiping.com/ let it run at 1 sec interval for a few days. If you have issues, it will spot them.
As I test modems as a hobby and own, well, all of them, I can say I like the SB8200 the best. BUT. My ISP supports the SB8200 as a recommended modem. So I get firmware updates. Maybe your not fully firmware updated because your ISPs don't provide current firmware to customer owner equipment. Some BIG ISPs do evil things like that. My firmware on Cox is D31CM-PEREGRINE-1.1.1.0-GA-14-NOSH
The Motorola MB8600 is a great modem. They are all based on the Broadcom 3390 chip. So there is almost zero differences between the SB8200 and the MB8600. The important thing is to make sure your ISP supports whatever modem you buy with timely firmware downloads and the MB8600 is less supported on ISPs. As Arris makes the gear on the other end of the modem, I tend to like them better because they make all the gear in a multi million dollar ISP plant. Motorola and other modem makers don't have the experience that Arris does. So IMHO Arris is far more qualified to make modems then anyone else in the market. BUT really its all the same chip and so all the gear pretty much performs exactly the same.
Arris is unlike all other modem/gateway makers. They make ISP plants. So in my mind, they make the best products to connect to their own plants.
Arris building a DOCSIS 3.1 ISP plant in time lapse..
Doesn't, or didn't, Motorola also make CMTS at one point? I know CISCO makes CMTS also.
I am currently on Comcast. My SB8200 is one of very few recommended D3.1 modems on Comcast. Comcast has only rolled out D31CM-PEREGRINE-1.0.1.0-GA-04-NOSH so far, which is what I'm running.
Funny enough, I've got an SB8200 on Cox (also probably on your fw) running at work for probably close to a year now and it's pretty solid. I thought maybe mine was defective, but there are a few other users in this forum with my modem and my issues.
I have a hard time believing it's signals or hardware when you can still get to the spectrum analyzer but not the status page... and it affects multiple people. Hopefully Comcast pushes a new FW soon.
Doesn't, or didn't, Motorola also make CMTS at one point? I know CISCO makes CMTS also.
I am currently on Comcast. My SB8200 is one of very few recommended D3.1 modems on Comcast. Comcast has only rolled out D31CM-PEREGRINE-1.0.1.0-GA-04-NOSH so far, which is what I'm running.
Funny enough, I've got an SB8200 on Cox (also probably on your fw) running at work for probably close to a year now and it's pretty solid. I thought maybe mine was defective, but there are a few other users in this forum with my modem and my issues.
I have a hard time believing it's signals or hardware when you can still get to the spectrum analyzer but not the status page... and it affects multiple people. Hopefully Comcast pushes a new FW soon.
Cisco sold off their cable modem division, its now made by Technicolor. Which is a french company now.
Im not sure who is making the Motorola modems. I would have to lookup what happened to Motorola. I don't think they are who we remember any more.
You do have a interesting observation. Maybe it is the firmware. Thats a important thing to point out that Comcast does not update customer owned firmware and so maybe the SB8200 is not the best choice on Comcast as there may be issues and unreliable operation.
Docdrew.. Good job.. I looked everywhere for the English version and gave up.
As Arris makes the gear on the other end of the modem, I tend to like them better because they make all the gear in a multi million dollar ISP plant. Motorola and other modem makers don't have the experience that Arris does. So IMHO Arris is far more qualified to make modems then anyone else in the market.
I feel the opposite - who's going to care more, the company that sells $100,000+ equipment in bulk with $10,000+ support/maintenance contracts attached and, oh yeah, also makes $100 devices sold 1-off to end users on the side, or the company that *only* sells $100 devices sold 1-off to end users?
(Hint: which company has a reboot button in the web interface, could be bothered to call the OFDM channel OFDM, supports LAG, and shows the name of the config file? And then you have stuff like the fiasco from not testing the modems with the config file 95%+ of the users will be using...)
Comcast absolutely updates the firmware on customer-owned modems. I had an older firmware on this modem when I used it on Altice. I merely plugged it in, without activating it, at a friend's apartment with Comcast and it was immediately updated. This was close to a year ago. Sadly, the firmware update changed nothing.
But comcast has not updated your SB8200 firmware. I thought Comcast was famous for not updating firmware in a timely manner - UNLESS it was thier own.. BUT. I could be wrong, I may indeed have my ISPs mixed up. That whole Puma 6 mess left me worn out and a tad confuzed.
Maybe you can call them and get some tier 2 person who could push you a new firmware ?
From my understanding with other ISPs, the ISP has to approve it first. Then add any specifics for its network. Then place it on the system where then modems will pick it up automatically in a push from the ISP that occurs nightly. But what we learned on the Puma 6 thread was that getting the firmware ready costs money and then rolling it out can cause havoc and cost money in support calls. So depending on the ISP maybe avoid rolling out firmware unless the HAVE to because it costs money for them to do it. They focus on firmware for the modems they lease. CLinet owned gear is on a best effort basis and that can sometimes translate to never. The reason for the upgrade factors in. Is it something as serious as the CVSS of 7 of the DoS on a Puma 6 ? Thats pretty serious and its taken 2 years and a number of BIG ISPs have decided to never roll out a fix even tho its CVE CVSS 7.5 serious. It shows many ISPs simply dont care if there is a update if you own it VS leasing from them. The Puma 6 DoS is a example of how firmware updates need some form of regulation to force a ISP to update OR give the customer a way to update like they do phones.
This whole firmware being locked up by ISPs just has to go. The Puma 6 DoS could have been fixed for EVERYONE on EVERY system worldwide had customers had the ability to update firmware.
Some insanely disruptive malware is gonna come along one day that self spreads to all modems and no one will be able to update and fix them. The ISP will be faced with a near impossible task of updating most of its user base with the whole system offline. A botnet like that could turn on the ISP as it would have access to its internal network and wreak havoc making it near impossible to fix the issue. This could all happen sooner then later. If customers had the ability to update firmware mitigation would be easier. It would make the ISP more secure and protect customers and the infrastructure better.
This firmware issue is a left over from 1980s technology. Cablelabs needs to address this and come up with a new standard before the above occurs.
Sorry... Off Topic.. But your issue could well be firmware related. As it works great on Cox but not on Comcast implies firmware issues not hardware issues.
Putting customers in charge of firmware updates will probably guarantee 95% of modems will never be updated and another 1% will load 3rd party firmware to allow options on the modem the ISP would rather not have.
Putting customers in charge of firmware updates will probably guarantee 95% of modems will never be updated and another 1% will load 3rd party firmware to allow options on the modem the ISP would rather not have.
Phones seem to handle firmware without these issues.
Apple more than Android. Mostly because the apps require it. Without apps driving the upgrades most would be ignored. The hardware refresh cycle of cell phones is also around 2 years which is much shorter than most cable modems.
Phones also have a UI that can display update notifications users have to respond to. Modems have no such ability unless you want them to force walled gardens or packet injection. The vast majority of cable modem users have no idea about »192.168.100.1
Imagine how many users interested in this topic (a very small percentage of total cable modem users to begin with) would've updated their modem's firmware if they knew the reboot button on the diagnostic pages would disappear... Many wouldn't do it, they'd roll back to a version that still had it, or they'd look for a hacked version that still had it. Very few would care about the other things the firmware update did. Same would've happened when config file names stopped being displayed, modem management IPs stopped being displayed, or when telnet access on certain modems was "fixed".
A standard is needed. A walled garden would work fine. The customer is presented with a web page that informs them of the update and says "click here" to update.
Packet injection is a great way to do it. When a customer uses the connection a windows pops up while browsing that informs them of a update that is avaliable.
A solution MUST be figured out. It cant stay the way it is. It takes WAY too long and exposes clients and ISPs to serious security issues. Im CERTAIN there is a way to do this better then "WHen we might get around to it - maybe. Maybe not" and customers have issues like the poster above. Its a unacceptable system thats as old as Windows 3.1.
A system and a standard needs to be developed and deployed. This might require regulation or rules in order to force a ISP to go to these systems.
Denying a customer security fixes that exist and telling customers to lease a modem if they want properly updated security cant continue.
This whole firmware being locked up by ISPs just has to go. The Puma 6 DoS could have been fixed for EVERYONE on EVERY system worldwide had customers had the ability to update firmware.
This assumes (a) there is a fix (hint: there really isn't), and (b) people will actually update their firmware (hint: an alarming number never will) Trusting that the consumer will update their firmware? Holy shit that's laughable! There's mountains of gear from every imaginable source that doesn't get updated. And that's just in professional circles, with people that know better. The average consumer can't spell f-i-r-m-w-a-r-e, much less knows where to find it, or how to update their devices.
This firmware issue is a left over from 1980s technology
And do you remember why these protections were put in place? That's right, because people couldn't be f'ing trusted -- they don't update causing problems for the network, or install hacked firmware that causes problems for the network. That's millions of times more true today. And today's network is far more complex, making the vetting of firmware (and devices) even more important. And don't say CableLabs test these things, because they don't. (their "testing" is an absolute joke. True interop testing takes a lot of work that still only covers a fraction of The Real World™.)
Phones seem to handle firmware without these issues.
Seriously? You don't have a drawer full of phones that no longer have firmware updates? (or from companies that no longer exist) Even "modern" Android and Apple devices are only supported for so long. And there, you're still locked to provider firmware in almost all cases. So if Verizon doesn't patch your specific device, you don't get any security.
We are off topic.. Lets agree that a way to update firmware on a timely basis is far more important today. A standard could ALLOW a custom to update, but the ISP would normally do it.
I dont know of anyone stealing cell phone service with a firmware ? Are you ? Cell services seem to have this all worked out. Cell services have all this worked out long ago. So cable companies can too. It requires good standards of interoperability and security.
Just throwing up hands and saying it cant be done is not productive.
Cable modems could be supported just as long as the cell phones.
Trusting that the consumer will update their firmware? Holy shit that's laughable!
Then what is the solution is firmware that can be rolled out in DAYS to all ISPs worldwide during a emergency malware issue ? As we saw with Puma ALL puma modems made since Puma 5 thru Puma 7 were ALL effected by a serious DoS. MILLIONS of devices. So if a serious malware comes along and infects these same devices what do you think will happen ? How will it be dealt with ? With the current system the solution is for millions of people to throw out the device and go buy new ones because it will take moths to years to roll out a fix. ? Imagine the ISP dealing with that. There are not enough modems to replace them all.
There MUST be a solution. Indeed it might require a huge faceplant for ISPs and Cable labs to learn this tho. You would think the Puma fiasco would have set off alarms to address this.
ANYWAY... Im sorry Mike Wold for pulling this off topic... Lets just all agree there is a issue and SOMEONE needs to address it before a big oopsie occurs.
I bought the SB8200 on something like 1.0.0.4. Used it on Altice a good few months and they don't officially support it, so no updates. Realized my friend a town over had Comcast and they were pushing 1.0.1.0. Took it to his house. Boom, updated. Went back to home to Altice and it stayed on 1.0.1.0.
So, there you go. Customer-owned equip updated.
I bet I could take my SB8200 to work, it would get 1.1.1.0 like you have. I'd bring it back home to (now) Comcast and it would be sent 1.0.1.0 at boot.
I bought the SB8200 on something like 1.0.0.4. Used it on Altice a good few months and they don't officially support it, so no updates. Realized my friend a town over had Comcast and they were pushing 1.0.1.0. Took it to his house. Boom, updated. Went back to home to Altice and it stayed on 1.0.1.0.
So, there you go. Customer-owned equip updated.
I bet I could take my SB8200 to work, it would get 1.1.1.0 like you have. I'd bring it back home to (now) Comcast and it would be sent 1.0.1.0 at boot.
I still don’t understand what’s taking this modem so long to get certified by the remaining MSOs. It’s been in Comcast, Cox, and WOW plants for a while now, unofficially on Spectrum for nearly a year, and now apparently Altice as well. What is the hold up at this point?
I bought the SB8200 on something like 1.0.0.4. Used it on Altice a good few months and they don't officially support it, so no updates. Realized my friend a town over had Comcast and they were pushing 1.0.1.0. Took it to his house. Boom, updated. Went back to home to Altice and it stayed on 1.0.1.0.
So, there you go. Customer-owned equip updated.
I bet I could take my SB8200 to work, it would get 1.1.1.0 like you have. I'd bring it back home to (now) Comcast and it would be sent 1.0.1.0 at boot.
Oops. Sorry I thought you were on Comcast currently. Altice is not updating. Sorry my mistake.
Yes you could put the modem on Cox. You would have to activate it. But thats super easy. Then *maybe* call in for a tier 2 person and push a update. Most likely tho it would update on activation. Done. Put the other modem back on the acct take yours home and most likely Altice will just leave it.
Some people have done that with SB6190's with Puma issues to get the DoS fix.
I still don’t understand what’s taking this modem so long to get certified by the remaining MSOs. It’s been in Comcast, Cox, and WOW plants for a while now, unofficially on Spectrum for nearly a year, and now apparently Altice as well. What is the hold up at this point?
Its almost time for new modems too. So its about to become old.
That’s what I was thinking. If/when SB8200 ever does get approved, it’s already going to be superseded by a new model.
I’m not sure what MSOs might be waiting for out of CPE that the SB8200 doesn’t already deliver, though. IIRC, it has 2xOFDM + 32 QAM downstream support and 8x QAM up. I don’t think FDX is on the horizon for another couple years, so I don’t see any reason this modem couldn’t adequately serve most customers for the next 2-4 years, if it were approved.
I still haven't been given an answer on just what the 1.1.1.0 update actually does. I'm still on 1.0.1.0-04 and have been patiently waiting for both the update and/or what the update fixes.
Would love to know if it fixes the the daily UMR issues or the degredation of performance over time until you have to reboot the modem (roughly 1-2 months max and then it becomes an unstable mess).
I still haven't been given an answer on just what the 1.1.1.0 update actually does. I'm still on 1.0.1.0-04 and have been patiently waiting for both the update and/or what the update fixes.
Would love to know if it fixes the the daily UMR issues or the degredation of performance over time until you have to reboot the modem (roughly 1-2 months max and then it becomes an unstable mess).
Same here. I'm still stuck on 1.0.0.2-01 and I've noticed that a once-a-month reboot is usually necessary. Though the last few months I usually get a T4 timeout at least once a week, so it's been taking care of itself.
That’s what I was thinking. If/when SB8200 ever does get approved, it’s already going to be superseded by a new model.
I’m not sure what MSOs might be waiting for out of CPE that the SB8200 doesn’t already deliver, though. IIRC, it has 2xOFDM + 32 QAM downstream support and 8x QAM up. I don’t think FDX is on the horizon for another couple years, so I don’t see any reason this modem couldn’t adequately serve most customers for the next 2-4 years, if it were approved.
it's all ready out dated. based on the cable labs certified list according to the FCC Files there is no new ones besides these.. or any others "in the works"
These days I'm actually on Comcast and not Altice anymore. But the point is, this thing came out of the retail packaging and was immediately hooked up to Altice. The firmware was old. Months later, I plugged it into Comcast at a friend's house for about 5 minutes and it was updated. It would then be used for a few more months on Altice. I've since moved to Comcast land with my SB8200. The firmware I'm on is the latest Comcast is pushing. I'm fairly confident that if they ever push a newer SB8200 firmware, I'll get it automatically eventually.
Also, Altice is trying to build a FTTH network. They aren't going DOCSIS 3.1, ever. They'll die on 3.0 and then switch to fiber.
One of the sb8200 updates is you cannot rollback the firmware anymore
That doesn't sound right. Do you have release notes or anything to back this statement up? As firmware upgrading/downgrading is entirely ISP controlled they tend to be pretty liberal with what they allow.
One of the sb8200 updates is you cannot rollback the firmware anymore
That usually happens when certain hardware updates in manufacturing occur, then the firmware has to be above a specific release version to be compatible.
It also happens when specific software changes are made to the modem, but in general it doesn't happen with the majority of firmware releases. It's only at certain mile stones.
In this case, the bootloader on older versions of the modem has to be above a specific version to update the firmware. Once the bootloader is updated, it's no longer compatible with the older firmware versions. I'm not sure if you can downgrade the bootloader and then downgrade the firmware.
One of the sb8200 updates is you cannot rollback the firmware anymore
That usually happens when certain hardware updates in manufacturing occur, then the firmware has to be above a specific release version to be compatible.
It also happens when specific software changes are made to the modem, but in general it doesn't happen with the majority of firmware releases. It's only at certain mile stones.
In this case, the bootloader on older versions of the modem has to be above a specific version to update the firmware. Once the bootloader is updated, it's no longer compatible with the older firmware versions. I'm not sure if you can downgrade the bootloader and then downgrade the firmware.
Thats not an firmware rollback they're talking about. that is a warning saying that pushing new firmware to a device with older than XXX bootloader can result in the device bricking. The bootloader doesn't stop the firmware from being pushed, so can't police things until it attempts to decompress the image. You can't change the bootloaders remotely.
