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Xakequri
join:2012-12-30
Midlothian, VA

Xakequri

Member

[HD] HD Picture Quality and Compression

I'm trying to switch from Comcast to FIOS because I heard that the HD signals on FIOS are better since they are not compressed like Comcast's signals. From reading this forum it looks like FIOS also compresses the HD signals. Will I get any better signal quality from FIOS than from Comcast? I thought that end to end fiber optic signals had much higher bandwidth and would have better HD picture quality. Am I mistaken here? Thanks.
Stanky (banned)
join:2015-06-22
Devon, PA

5 recommendations

Stanky (banned)

Member

I think it's safe to say that FIOS HD picture quality is superior to Comcast, based on the feedback I have heard for years.
bull3964
join:2014-09-27
Pittsburgh, PA

4 recommendations

bull3964 to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
The days of superior Fios picture quality are long over. If you want superior picture quality, go with one of the OTT providers like YoutubeTV, DirectvNow, or Hulu with Live TV.

BetterTV
join:2017-12-02
Arlington, VA

2 recommendations

BetterTV to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
If you're switching solely based on the hope of better picture quality, don't do it.

keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA

3 recommendations

keyboards to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
The days of better picture quality are gone. FiOS has increased compression in order to keep adding channels (QUAM channels and bandwidth per channel are limited regardless of the delivery method) at the cost of PQ . Notice that their recent advertisements only tout their Internet not PQ.

BTW - have been a user since it came to my neighborhood and have seen the degradation due to higher compression to increase channels per QUAM slot.
duke5150
join:2017-07-07
Thousand Oaks, CA

duke5150 to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
Search this Forum for "smearing" and "poor PQ".
You can also look at Frontier FIOS Forum as well.
Lots of posts about very poor PQ.
Probably better than cable but not great.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

3 recommendations

bushleaguer to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
I am a long-time Verizon Fios customer but I switched to Comcast for 2 months around a year ago (long story) and from what I saw there was not much of a difference in terms of picture quality. I remember way back when I first switched to Verizon from cable and the difference was apparent, but that was around 7 or 8 years ago.

Of course picture quality isn't the only variable in play. If we consider PQ to be a push then you can compare the HD offerings between the two providers.....Verizon has Comcast beat by a mile.
Goldenloveny
join:2018-04-07
Bronx, NY

2 recommendations

Goldenloveny to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
Dont cross if PQ is your motive because you will be disappointed. That ship has sailed. There is a reason why Fios is pushing their Gigabit offering rather their PQ or tv service. That is pretty much their selling point at this time.
Bytezboy
join:2001-05-17
New York, NY

Bytezboy to bull3964

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to bull3964
said by bull3964:

The days of superior Fios picture quality are long over. If you want superior picture quality, go with one of the OTT providers like YoutubeTV, DirectvNow, or Hulu with Live TV.

Does YoutubeTV keep the streams untouched from the provider? How many Mbit typically?
nowayout
join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

4 edits

3 recommendations

nowayout to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
I don't think most non-Comcast customers are aware of this, but over the past 2 years Comcast began transitioning and over-compressing their lineup to mpeg4, at 720p, with 10:1 QAM transmuxing. I'm not kidding. They're killing almost all 1080i and bit-starving all the 720p HDs at 10:1. This has been slowly rolling out to each market. The HD channels are only getting about 3-4 mbps.

We like to complain about Verizon's mpeg2 3:1 compression, but I'll still take Fios anyday over that hot mess.

»forums.xfinity.com/t5/No ··· /2806786
bull3964
join:2014-09-27
Pittsburgh, PA

2 recommendations

bull3964 to Bytezboy

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to Bytezboy
said by Bytezboy:

Does YoutubeTV keep the streams untouched from the provider? How many Mbit typically?

No, they don't. Bitrate is around 3.5-6mbps for MPEG4. Fios does around 9.7mbps for MPEG2 on 4 crammed channels (which is pretty much all of them now.) Bitrate doesn't tell the whole story though. Verizon is applying some very nasty DNR and edge enhancement to the signal before compression to make it easier to deliver without macroblocking.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

3 recommendations

aaronwt to Xakequri

Premium Member

to Xakequri
said by Xakequri:

I'm trying to switch from Comcast to FIOS because I heard that the HD signals on FIOS are better since they are not compressed like Comcast's signals. From reading this forum it looks like FIOS also compresses the HD signals. Will I get any better signal quality from FIOS than from Comcast? I thought that end to end fiber optic signals had much higher bandwidth and would have better HD picture quality. Am I mistaken here? Thanks.

While FiOS picture quality has gone downhill over the past few years, it's still nowhere near as bad as the Comcast picture quality.
Comcast has been downconverting to 720P and using very low bitrates. In my area the difference is very noticeable between FiOS and Comcast.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat to keyboards

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to keyboards
said by keyboards:

BTW - have been a user since it came to my neighborhood and have seen the degradation

Same here

Branch
:D
Premium Member
join:2014-07-22
VHO 4

4 recommendations

Branch

Premium Member

Just throwing it out there. Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better and our expectations (from watching online video) have gotten higher?
dtv757
join:2008-09-20
Virginia Beach, VA

2 recommendations

dtv757 to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
is it possible that all providers went down hill due to so many HD channels now ?

also does fios plan to change all channels over to MPEG4 like D* ?

i know its dead but i miss that IPTV lol amazing PQ on all channels! also IMO D* has good PQ as well as well

I compared Cox Cable and D* on the same tv and D* won hands down , NBA was unwatchable via cable micro-block city . and this was there new "contour 2" box.

No longer live in FIOS area so cannot do side by side comparison but every-time i go to someones house with fios the picture looks good . (no noticeable issues)

grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA

2 recommendations

grydlok to Xakequri

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to Xakequri
I don't comment much but FIOS tv pq has decreased a lot like everyone said and I had them pretty much since I had the TV in 08. Almost tempted to get Directv again like I had before side by side.
dtv757
join:2008-09-20
Virginia Beach, VA

2 recommendations

dtv757

Member

yea D* has good picture and live sports in 4K !!
hopefully next year fios will have 4k too . they had 4k with IPTV but thats another story
bull3964
join:2014-09-27
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

bull3964 to Branch

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to Branch
said by Branch:

Just throwing it out there. Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better and our expectations (from watching online video) have gotten higher?

So, that's a little part of it. But I actually have frame grabs from a Tivo export a few months apart from each other in 2017. Same frame, same episode, same channel. There was a marked difference. The later was full of edge enhancement and all fine detail was smeared over.

In the past month or so, I feel as if they've pulled back a little bit and had some improvement, but picture quality is nowhere near what it should be given the bitrates, smaller as they are. Skin tones are still waxy and if the source has any grain it's smeared over.

It's frustrating because they are tied to old equipment like a boat anchor. Adaptive bitrate HEVC could deliver amazing quality in the bandwidth available on the QAM output, but they are never going to take on the equipment purge necessary to modernize the system.

Meanwhile, OTT providers are free to innovate their delivery based on software updates and what SoC the majority of their userbase has in their devices.
TonyD79
join:2010-04-08
Ellicott City, MD

TonyD79

Member

The cahanneks themselves are another variable. Especially locals. They are repacking the spectrum and channels are sharing bandwidth plus a lot of sub channels.

Fios is partly at fault but there are other factors. They compound.

TitusTroy
join:2009-06-18
New York, NY

2 recommendations

TitusTroy to bull3964

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to bull3964
said by bull3964:

The days of superior Fios picture quality are long over. If you want superior picture quality, go with one of the OTT providers like YoutubeTV, DirectvNow, or Hulu with Live TV.

those are not better then FiOS...don't most of those only give you 720p?...no Dolby Digital 5.1 either?
bsangs
join:2002-08-21
Montclair, NJ

2 recommendations

bsangs

Member

said by TitusTroy:

said by bull3964:

The days of superior Fios picture quality are long over. If you want superior picture quality, go with one of the OTT providers like YoutubeTV, DirectvNow, or Hulu with Live TV.

those are not better then FiOS...don't most of those only give you 720p?...no Dolby Digital 5.1 either?

Nope, they use the source PQ - well, YTTV and DTVN do anyway, those are the ones I've used. Bit rates fluctuate, but 1080i is 1080i, 720p is 720p, etc, etc. Not sure about the 5.1, as I only use a soundbar or my TV's speakers.

keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA

keyboards to Branch

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to Branch
said by Branch:

Just throwing it out there. Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better and our expectations (from watching online video) have gotten higher?

Is it possible that increasing compression to put more channels per quam is degrading the quality? My response is a resounding YES- more micro-blocking, compression artifacts (ghosting), etc. This is all on the same equipment I have had since day one (Sharp 52" and a 7216 DVR that I have had for a majority of the time).

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

1 recommendation

amarryat to Branch

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to Branch
said by Branch:

Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better

I'm still watching on my 2005 Panasonic plasma TV.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

2 recommendations

aaronwt to Branch

Premium Member

to Branch
said by Branch:

Just throwing it out there. Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better and our expectations (from watching online video) have gotten higher?

Not in the slightest. I have HD recordings from when I got FiOS in 2007. I also have HD recordings from OTA, from between 2001 and 2004. From both cable and OTA now, they don't look anything like my recordings from back then. When played on my 2015 and 2018 UHD TVs.

Branch
:D
Premium Member
join:2014-07-22
VHO 4

1 recommendation

Branch

Premium Member

Right. Possibly because when you recorded it you didn’t have a UHD tv so it looked fine bc the tv wasn’t good enough to show the detail.
It’s just a possibility I threw out there.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

2 recommendations

amarryat

Member

said by Branch:

Right. Possibly because when you recorded it you didn’t have a UHD tv

I think he's saying that when he watches the old recordings on his new TV, they look a lot better than the new stuff does.

Branch
:D
Premium Member
join:2014-07-22
VHO 4
Greenwave FiOS-G1100
Actiontec WCB6200Q

2 recommendations

Branch

Premium Member

said by amarryat:

said by Branch:

Right. Possibly because when you recorded it you didn’t have a UHD tv

I think he's saying that when he watches the old recordings on his new TV, they look a lot better than the new stuff does.

Oh gotcha misread
TonyD79
join:2010-04-08
Ellicott City, MD

TonyD79 to aaronwt

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to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

said by Branch:

Just throwing it out there. Is it possible quality has stayed the same but our TVs have gotten better and our expectations (from watching online video) have gotten higher?

Not in the slightest. I have HD recordings from when I got FiOS in 2007. I also have HD recordings from OTA, from between 2001 and 2004. From both cable and OTA now, they don't look anything like my recordings from back then. When played on my 2015 and 2018 UHD TVs.

I’m having trouble reading this. Are you saying OTA is worse, too?

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

2 recommendations

amarryat

Member

said by TonyD79:

Are you saying OTA is worse,

Sounds like it. I'm not surprised since many stations have added sub stations (not sure of the terminology) where they're broadcasting two or more channels on their frequency.
TonyD79
join:2010-04-08
Ellicott City, MD

1 recommendation

TonyD79

Member

said by amarryat:

said by TonyD79:

Are you saying OTA is worse,

Sounds like it. I'm not surprised since many stations have added sub stations (not sure of the terminology) where they're broadcasting two or more channels on their frequency.

Yes. I get three PBS stations. I have had to switch recordings from MPT to WETA because MPT added an HD sub and it is very easy to see difference. Especially on British shows like Masterpiece.