 DocDrewRF Medic
Premium Member
join:2009-01-28
dv streaming
Technicolor TC4400
ARRIS TG1672
|
to mixdup
Re: [DOCSIS] DOCSIS 4.0 Status?said by mixdup:or splitting up or moving customers around service groups or nodes or anything like that Actually they do bump customers around on service groups. 2.4/1.2Gbps only goes so far when customers have 1/1Gbps tiers. |
· actions · 2020-Sep-28 4:49 pm · (locked) |
 doubleaa
join:2020-04-04
Rancho Cordova, CA |
said by DocDrew:said by mixdup:or splitting up or moving customers around service groups or nodes or anything like that Actually they do bump customers around on service groups. 2.4/1.2Gbps only goes so far when customers have 1/1Gbps tiers. They just re-segmented my node to 4 from 2 a few weeks ago, I wasn't really having slowdowns and just packet loss, but it's nice to know that there's more headroom in my neighborhood now. Utilization was around 70% prior to the segmentation. I don't know by what metric The tech was talking about that he saw some peaks they said around 80% some nights. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-1 8:06 pm · (locked) |
| |
How did you know they upgraded your node? Did you stop and ask? I only ask because I'm curious how I would know when they upgrade mine (they recently added a channel to upstream bandwidth; I saw it on the status page of my SB8200). |
· actions · 2020-Oct-2 1:25 am · (locked) |
doubleaa
join:2020-04-04
Rancho Cordova, CA |
said by southerndoc:How did you know they upgraded your node? Did you stop and ask? I only ask because I'm curious how I would know when they upgrade mine (they recently added a channel to upstream bandwidth; I saw it on the status page of my SB8200). I have been having connection troubles for months (» Rain = No Internet; 7 Visits by Comcast - Issue Returned 9-24-20), replacing the node was one of the steps to try resolve. I didn't pry or ask directly, but I discussed the node setup with the maintenance tech [Sorry I don't know his position, I think he is higher up, he usually comes with another employee and he supervises.] about how the docsis network works here, and where the node is; since I showed some knowledge and interest he has been letting me know what's going on. I can tell he likes his job, because he is just as into the tech as I am. I've been very appreciative of the knowledge I've been able to learn during this ongoing issue. Obviously many of us here on these forms are nerds at heart. Without my ongoing connection issues, no their is no chance I'd ever gotten to know my node was segmented and upgraded (It was scheduled to be replaced in a few months from what they were saying, my ongoing issues accelerated its replacement it seems.) |
· actions · 2020-Oct-2 4:05 am · (locked) |
|
| |
Comcast is doing a high-split trial: » www.lightreading.com/cab ··· /764501? |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 3:23 pm · (locked) |
| |
It's cool that they're testing this, but I don't expect any North American providers to commercially roll out high-split. It causes too much problems with existing equipment, and DOCSIS 4.0 makes it unnecessary.
They've said that their plan is mid-split now, and 4.0 in a few years. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 4:06 pm · (locked) |
DocDrewRF Medic
Premium Member
join:2009-01-28
dv streaming Ubee E31U2V1
Technicolor TC4400
ARRIS TG1672
|
DocDrew
Premium Member
2020-Oct-8 4:23 pm
said by dcspidey4:It's cool that they're testing this, but I don't expect any North American providers to commercially roll out high-split. It causes too much problems with existing equipment, and DOCSIS 4.0 makes it unnecessary. You have to realize to get DOCSIS 4 FDX to work, or even ESD to work anywhere near it's potential, you have to get all the same 204Mhz upstream spectrum used by high split to work plus more to get upstream working into the 600 Mhz range. Upstream to 204Mhz and beyond is going to happen. DOCSIS 4 is mostly pointless without it since D3.1 will work up to 204Mhz upstream. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 4:23 pm · (locked) |
ARRIS S33
|
to Franken
Thats awesome, they are currently rolling fiber down my street, assuming it won't get lit up for a long time from now, they've dug up just about every street around here within a 5 block radius and I feel like they forgot about mine, but my hopes is they just go with the latest greatest equipment, vs others that might have had updates in the past few years and might not have the latest greatest. I'm hoping the wait is worth it |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 5:23 pm · (locked) |
 mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
to DocDrew
said by DocDrew:said by dcspidey4:It's cool that they're testing this, but I don't expect any North American providers to commercially roll out high-split. It causes too much problems with existing equipment, and DOCSIS 4.0 makes it unnecessary. You have to realize to get DOCSIS 4 FDX to work, or even ESD to work anywhere near it's potential, you have to get all the same 204Mhz upstream spectrum used by high split to work plus more to get upstream working into the 600 Mhz range. Upstream to 204Mhz and beyond is going to happen. DOCSIS 4 is mostly pointless without it since D3.1 will work up to 204Mhz upstream. I think it's obvious they are planning to go down this road. One poster on DSLR notwithstanding, they are showing both with their words and with their actions on the ground I do hope they start releasing the fruits of some of their work soon. It's cool that they're testing high split 1+gig symmetrical, but it would be much appreciated and beneficial that instead of waiting yet another couple of years for that to pay off if they'd raise upstream speeds even a little bit, maybe hit triple digits now, and then continue the work to hit gig symmetrical down the road They keep chasing the next thing and never actually delivering and it's getting ridiculous |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 6:04 pm · (locked) |
| |
High-split basically breaks compatibility with all current equipment on their network, like STBs and modems. Everyone would need to replace all of their equipment.
You can't do high-split and continue to support legacy equipment.
Mid-split is the near-term plan. 4.0 is many years away.
They can do 100Mbps uploads on mid-split, which is sufficient for most people for the next several years. I'm not expecting to see 4.0 until at least 2025. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 6:40 pm · (locked) |
|
| |
said by dcspidey4:High-split basically breaks compatibility with all current equipment on their network, like STBs and modems. Everyone would need to replace all of their equipment.
You can't do high-split and continue to support legacy equipment.
Mid-split is the near-term plan. 4.0 is many years away.
They can do 100Mbps uploads on mid-split, which is sufficient for most people for the next several years. I'm not expecting to see 4.0 until at least 2025. Well, looks like Comcast is at least playing around with high-split (with node+0 and DAA) right now. They're currently testing symmetrical 1.25 GB service in Jacksonville, FL and say the trial will expand. » www.lightreading.com/cab ··· /764501? |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 8:54 pm · (locked) |
| |
As others have said, they will eventually do a high-split as part of offering symmetrical speeds with DOCSIS 4.0, but it's at least 5 years away.
Mid-splits are the short term plan.
Them testing this at one house isn't evidence of an imminent nationwide rollout of high-split. If you're expecting that, you'll be disappointed. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 9:33 pm · (locked) |
| |
to NashGuy
And so we see the effectiveness of a press release. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-8 10:39 pm · (locked) |
ARRIS S33
|
said by Moffetts:And so we see the effectiveness of a press release. Right? When we first saw a mid split speed test 100mbit upload back in 2017 and the trial has been going on since 2016, fast forward 3 years to now and nobody has those kinds of uploads yet |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 7:05 am · (locked) |
| |
to Moffetts
said by Moffetts:And so we see the effectiveness of a press release. Heh. Well, if the effect of a press release is to encourage folks into thinking that Comcast will match AT&T Fiber and Google Fiber any time soon, by offering symmetrical gigabit, and then that doesn't happen for many more years, then, uh, I'd say the press release wasn't very effective. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 11:57 am · (locked) |
mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
to Moffetts
said by Moffetts:And so we see the effectiveness of a press release. I don't think anyone is really buying it. They have been making these press releases for years and better uploads speeds have been on the way for years and years, and every advance that comes down the pike never delivers. So, until they deliver on this one I'm not buying it It's nice to see they're trying out something new, but until they actually deliver on DOCSIS 3.1, Node+0, and all digital TV, three things that they have already or are deep into implementing but hasn't really delivered any great advances, I'm not going to give them accolades for trialing something that is another 5 years out and still may not deliver even then If AT&T started stringing fiber in my neighborhood tomorrow, I'd still sign up. This isn't going to stop anyone from switching to a fiber provider. Hell, even if they did offer symmetrical 1 Gbps I'd still go for fiber because AT&T doesn't have caps, and I suspect their oversubscription is lower than Comcast's |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 12:23 pm · (locked) |
| |
said by mixdup:It's nice to see they're trying out something new, but until they actually deliver on DOCSIS 3.1, Node+0, and all digital TV, three things that they have already or are deep into implementing but hasn't really delivered any great advances, I'm not going to give them accolades for trialing something that is another 5 years out and still may not deliver even then They've clearly done a lot of work on Node+0 already, so I'm not sure what the holdup is with mid-split. In areas where the work is already done, all they have to do is enable the 8 upstream channels and push out new config files to modems with higher upload speeds. I'm hopeful that we'll see something later this year or next year, especially with the other major providers also working on mid-split. Charter, Cox, and others have said they're planning to do mid-split, and Shaw in Canada has had it since last year: 
|
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 12:28 pm · (locked) |
| |
said by dcspidey4:They've clearly done a lot of work on Node+0 already, so I'm not sure what the holdup is with mid-split. The papers for next week's expo have been released. There is much talk by Comcast about mid-split and how to upgrade customers (individually) without disrupting legacy devices. I get the feeling that the wait will soon be over. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 6:29 pm · (locked) |
ARRIS S33
|
said by Franken:said by dcspidey4:They've clearly done a lot of work on Node+0 already, so I'm not sure what the holdup is with mid-split. The papers for next week's expo have been released. There is much talk by Comcast about mid-split and how to upgrade customers (individually) without disrupting legacy devices. I get the feeling that the wait will soon be over. Relatively speaking 2 more years of waiting vs when they started talking about it 7ish years ago, sure |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 6:41 pm · (locked) |
DocDrewRF Medic
Premium Member
join:2009-01-28
dv streaming Ubee E31U2V1
Technicolor TC4400
ARRIS TG1672
|
to Franken
Link to the NCTA Papers for next week's expo: » www.nctatechnicalpapers. ··· per/2020Comcast paper on transition to DOCSIS 4: » www.nctatechnicalpapers. ··· csis-4-0 |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 7:18 pm · (locked) |
| |
to videomatic3
Stay positive.  About the high-split trial: They say that both mid-split and high-split will be a thing, before FDX deployment. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 7:19 pm · (locked) |
ARRIS S33
|
said by Franken:Stay positive.
About the high-split trial: They say that both mid-split and high-split will be a thing, before FDX deployment. i just want plex to be able to stream 4k videos without transcoding them  |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 7:48 pm · (locked) |
| |
to Franken
said by Franken:The papers for next week's expo have been released. There is much talk by Comcast about mid-split and how to upgrade customers (individually) without disrupting legacy devices. I get the feeling that the wait will soon be over. That makes a lot of sense. Shaw in Canada is handling it the same way. Customers aren't automatically upgraded to the faster speeds. Existing customers stay on their current speed tiers (with the old slow uploads) unless they specifically call in or go online to upgrade their speeds. They'll check your address to make sure that your node/equipment supports it. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-9 8:29 pm · (locked) |
| |
said by dcspidey4:That makes a lot of sense. Shaw in Canada is handling it the same way. Customers aren't automatically upgraded to the faster speeds. Even if the customers are not speed-upgraded, they must make sure that enabling mid-split and adding channels don't disrupt legacy devices. They have developed a model where mid-split can be auto-enabled while monitoring the other CPEs in the home. If ok, mid-split will continue to be enabled, if it fails, mid-split will be deactivated = needs a technician. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-10 6:03 am · (locked) |
| |
Hopefully we see the speed increases soon. That technical paper was very informative, but it was noticeably missing a timeline for these rollouts of mid-split, high-split, and 4.0.
If most nodes have been upgraded to support mid-split already, I'm not sure why the channels haven't been enabled and speeds haven't increased yet. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-10 12:27 pm · (locked) |
mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
to DocDrew
That paper reads like it was written a year from now, and acts like most of their network (at least the parts they've done Node+0) is already mid-split, but that is not the case I also am getting the distinct suspicion that they are trying to jump directly from what we have now to gigabit upstream, and may be skipping intermediate steps to 50, 100, or other three-digit upstream tiers |
· actions · 2020-Oct-10 2:59 pm · (locked) |
| |
said by mixdup:I also am getting the distinct suspicion that they are trying to jump directly from what we have now to gigabit upstream, and may be skipping intermediate steps to 50, 100, or other three-digit upstream tiers They are doing different design in different areas. Only a subset of them will support the high-split. All the analog based nodes will only support mid-split. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-10 3:11 pm · (locked) |
| |
to mixdup
said by mixdup:I also am getting the distinct suspicion that they are trying to jump directly from what we have now to gigabit upstream, and may be skipping intermediate steps to 50, 100, or other three-digit upstream tiers The paper says otherwise. It directly says "This will not be accomplished in one giant leap, but rather a transition from mid-split to high-split networks." It will be mid-split > high-split > 4.0 over many years. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-10 6:26 pm · (locked) |
mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2020-Oct-11 4:51 pm
said by dcspidey4:said by mixdup:I also am getting the distinct suspicion that they are trying to jump directly from what we have now to gigabit upstream, and may be skipping intermediate steps to 50, 100, or other three-digit upstream tiers The paper says otherwise. It directly says "This will not be accomplished in one giant leap, but rather a transition from mid-split to high-split networks." It will be mid-split > high-split > 4.0 over many years. It also says they're already mid-split when they aren't, unless they plan on flipping a switch before this conference actually happens |
· actions · 2020-Oct-11 4:51 pm · (locked) |
| |
said by mixdup:It also says they're already mid-split when they aren't They are. |
· actions · 2020-Oct-11 7:11 pm · (locked) |
