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kinda pissed
join:2012-06-06
Newsoms, VA

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Re: Starlink at over ten thousand users Feb 4 2020

I agree but unless the government literally does it themselves like they did with the rural electrification act fiber is never coming to rural areas.
said by DrStrangLov:

said by bimwad:

I read that as ....

As a rural person, I'd prefer fiber to the home...long term, it would be cheaper than LEOs, GEOs, or even WISPs...and environmentally, a better solution.

Once the pilgrims get onboard the LEO broadband, the speeds will drop, and drop.

I agree but unless the government does it themselves like they did with the REA fiber is never coming to most rural areas.
kinda pissed

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said by DrStrangLov:

said by lawsoncl:

StarLink ....provide high-speed rural internet.

Wireless carriers just forked over about 81 billion to use C-Band frequencies for their 5G...which may upset StarLink's "party"

February 3, 2021 Will midband spectrum fend off 5G challenges from LEO satellites?

said by DrStrangLov:

said by lawsoncl:

StarLink ....provide high-speed rural internet.

Wireless carriers just forked over about 81 billion to use C-Band frequencies for their 5G...which may upset StarLink's "party"

February 3, 2021 Will midband spectrum fend off 5G challenges from LEO satellites?

Isnt C-band strictly for ultra wideband 5g the kind that will only be in major cities?
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by kinda pissed:

Isnt C-band

From a bean counter perspective, its logical to assume busiest towers come first, where more bandwidth is needed.

Logistically...less busy towers may be upgraded along the path traveled by these crews.

Anon024af
@172.56.12.x

Anon024af to kinda pissed

Anon

to kinda pissed
said by kinda pissed:

I agree but unless the government literally does it themselves like they did with the rural electrification act fiber is never coming to rural areas.

said by DrStrangLov:

said by bimwad:

I read that as ....

As a rural person, I'd prefer fiber to the home...long term, it would be cheaper than LEOs, GEOs, or even WISPs...and environmentally, a better solution.

Once the pilgrims get onboard the LEO broadband, the speeds will drop, and drop.

I agree but unless the government does it themselves like they did with the REA fiber is never coming to most rural areas.

The local electric co-op lit up fiber in front of my house. Got millions in grants and public money. The caveat? They want a $700 install charge even though the pole that serves me is ~200' away AND I installed a 2" conduit with pull rope when I ran the UG electric service. Oh and I have a service agreement that was submitted when the build out was first announced that states $0.00 install charge in no fewer than 4 places. The REA and the individual co-ops are certainly no panacea. Guess I'll keep on keeping on with Tmobile and VZW. May go with Starlink if it ever becomes available. The co-ops live fiber crap is hanging off the pole and laying in a heap in my field. May not see it and plow it under just be an a-hole.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by Anon024af :

$700 install charge

If monthly charge is reasonable, I'd snap that up. Starlink wants $500, and you install it. I'd see if that charge includes their modem/etc.

Around here, a local WISP wants several hundred bucks, ;unless a two year contract is signed. A local Telco was doing free installs of their fiber a year or two later, but I consider their rates a bit on high side. I'm about three miles away from two rural telcos that laid fiber...and I'm in AT&T's turf...can you say tough luck.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to kinda pissed

Premium Member

to kinda pissed
said by kinda pissed:

Isnt C-band strictly for ultra wideband 5g the kind that will only be in major cities?

Yes, it is. Any talk of using it in other areas is nonsense.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by mackey:

Any talk of using it in other areas is nonsense.

Really?

Mar 29, 2021 - Verizon defends C-band plans....“We’re starting from a great position with the best network, already engineered for AWS/PCS, C-band is going to fit perfectly with that and just as we have been doing for decades we’re going to continue to densify and we’ll see improvements in C-band coverage in the outer suburban and rural areas,” Stone said.
»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· nd-plans

Bonus:

Sep 29, 2020 - Verizon debuts all-in-one 5G Home receiver, Wi-Fi router.....Earlier this year, Verizon indicated it wasn’t going to wait for its 5G Home service to get fully baked, launching a FWA service using its 4G LTE network. The LTE service enables the operator to expand into more rural areas and expand outside its Fios and 5G Home footprints.
»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· home-cpe

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Yes, really.
said by DrStrangLov:

Verizon defends C-band plans

Why would they need to defend their plans if it was such a sure thing? VZ wants to appear like an Utopian coverage provider but does not have enough spectrum in the required bands, so they are making wild claims that they can do it with C-Band (lol).

Bonus:
said by DrStrangLov:

Sep 29, 2020 - Verizon debuts all-in-one 5G Home receiver, Wi-Fi router.....Earlier this year, Verizon indicated it wasn’t going to wait for its 5G Home service to get fully baked, launching a FWA service using its 4G LTE network. The LTE service enables the operator to expand into more rural areas and expand outside its Fios and 5G Home footprints.
»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· home-cpe

Uh...

Well, it’s finally arriving in eight cities, including two new cities in Verizon’s 5G Home Internet coverage area starting on October 1: Minneapolis and St. Paul.
...
In addition to Minneapolis and St. Paul, Verizon offers its 5G Home Internet service in parts of Chicago, Detroit, Houston, Indianapolis, Los Angeles and Sacramento.

Wow, so rural! I can't wait to move to rural Los Angeles!
mackey

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»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· nd-plans

However, competitor T-Mobile, as well as some investment analysts, have turned attention to propagation characteristics of the upper mid-band spectrum and how Verizon would need to spend a lot more to densify its network sufficiently for ubiquitous coverage using C-band.

For example, during its investor day, T-Mobile said it would take 1.5-times the number of 2.5 GHz sites and 2-times the number of PCS/AWS sites to reach the same amount of coverage with C-band.

Hmm, maybe VZ knows more about C-Band than T-Mobile?

Verizon aims to cover 100 million people with C-band within a year, and 250 million by 2024. T-Mobile, meanwhile, says it’s on track to reach 200 million with mid-band 5G by the end of this year.

Oh.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by mackey:

Hmm, maybe VZ knows more about C-Band than T-Mobile?

Maybe T-Mobile's RF engineers didn't do their homework?

4dB gain is serious (+3 dB gain doubles the power of the signal)

“The antenna gains we’re going to be able to get with Massive MIMO product in 3.5 GHz are far – 4db or more – greater than what can be realized at the similar size antennas in EBS or BRS, the 2.5 GHz or PCS/AWS,” Stone said. “That antenna gain more than offsets the difference in the propagation loss.”

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by DrStrangLov:

said by mackey:

Hmm, maybe VZ knows more about C-Band than T-Mobile?
[T-Mo has an operational network while VZ doesn't]
Oh.

Maybe T-Mobile's RF engineers didn't do their homework?

4dB gain is serious (+3 dB gain doubles the power of the signal)

Or maybe VZ cherry picked some ideal lab condition numbers and are claiming that's what they're going to get in every situation in order to not spook their investors and send their stock price down.

The difference between VZ and T-Mo is T-Mo already has their network up and running and covering millions of customers and are expecting to hit 200M subscribers within 8 months, while VZ has only a few sites in a few cities and will not hit even 100M for 12 months yet. Which numbers are more believable, the built-and-running network or the imaginary network which doesn't exist yet?

And yay, a 4dB gain. With that they are closing in on what 2.5GHz can do, which itself is complete shit compared to 1.x GHz, which in turn is crappy compared to 600-800 MHz.

VZ chose not to purchase better spectrum earlier and are now trying to kludge something together with what they have. It will never be as good as starting from a better position. Any claims otherwise is nothing but damage control.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by mackey:

difference between VZ and T-Mo is T-Mo already has their network up and running...

VZW stands on their own two feet...within two years, T-Mobile may have bandwidth issues.

T-Mobile had asked for an extension of the 600 MHz spectrum loan from Dish. And Dish indicated that it wasn’t happy that T-Mobile had used the additional spectrum to enhance its marketing efforts. Dish complained that T-Mobile had publicized the capacity benefits of this spectrum in press statements, tweets and advertisements “in an apparent effort to acquire new subscribers.”

»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· -markets

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by DrStrangLov:

said by mackey:

difference between VZ and T-Mo is T-Mo already has their network up and running...

VZW stands on their own two feet...within two years, T-Mobile may have bandwidth issues.

T-Mobile had asked for an extension of the 600 MHz spectrum loan from Dish. And Dish indicated that it wasn’t happy that T-Mobile had used the additional spectrum to enhance its marketing efforts. Dish complained that T-Mobile had publicized the capacity benefits of this spectrum in press statements, tweets and advertisements “in an apparent effort to acquire new subscribers.”

»www.fiercewireless.com/o ··· -markets

Please, VZ doesn't have the low band bandwidth to even try this, unlike T-Mo who is actually doing it. VZ won't have these bandwidth problems because they won't have service at all.

"We believe Verizon recognizes the advantage of pairing lower frequency uplinks with C-band downlinks to improve the reach of the C-band. So why aren't they doing this with carrier aggregation the way T-Mobile is with 2.5GHz and 600MHz? We suspect it's because they are spectrum constrained in bands below C-band; they don't have enough unused uplink capacity on existing spectrum to support the uplink needs of their C-band portfolio," argued the New Street analysts in a note to investors Monday.

And that 4 dB Massive MIMO gain you keep frothing over?

"Massive MIMO (64T64R) can offset much of the penalty of 3.5GHz, although T-Mobile can do the same thing with 2.5GHz," he wrote in response to questions from Light Reading.

So 2.5 GHz can get that same gain too, plus still has that 25% range advantage over 3.5 GHz. GG

»www.lightreading.com/5g/ ··· d/768085
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

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It ain't over till the fat lady sings