Windogg
join:2002-07-24
Redwood City, CA |
to Moffetts
Re: [Speed] Line tech claims upload speed increase coming this yearSame here on the Peninsula (SF Bay Area) Had a bit of an outage and service returned with 6 upstream channels too. |
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Interesting, I've seen a few reports on Downdetector from the Bay Area. Looks like this is the new config. It's far from a mid split but at least they're doing something. |
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to Windogg
I've had 6 upstream in Sacramento for some time now.. hasn't really done much of anyrhing. still to much congestion to keep a steady 35-40 up on gig plan ... |
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 mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
to Ultibeam
said by Ultibeam:Interesting, I've seen a few reports on Downdetector from the Bay Area. Looks like this is the new config. It's far from a mid split but at least they're doing something. these are just trying to put bandaids on congestion. they aren't doing this to increase upload speeds. the fact that they feel they need to do this kind of indicates they're not really close to deploying midsplit. if they were, they would just hold off and do that |
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kdex86
join:2016-06-10
Melrose, MA |
to Windogg
said by Windogg:Same here on the Peninsula (SF Bay Area) Had a bit of an outage and service returned with 6 upstream channels too. The graphic you posted indicates that the 5th and 6th upload channels are half the width of the other 4. So it's really the equivalent of adding 1 legacy channel (and a rather small increase in capacity). Wouldn't it be better off to replace the 35.6 Mhz and 40.4 Mhz channels with a 9.6 Mhz wide OFDMA channel? |
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There’s probably too many 3.0 modems in use for that to make sense. |
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The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. |
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That process will probably accelerate with the arrival of midsplit. On day 1, they can do the wumbo ofdma channel above 42 and reduce the number of atdma channels below 42 to the original 4. |
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ARRIS S33
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to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. Comcast employees on here said they will never get rid of sc-qam chanels |
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mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Atlanta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2022-Jan-25 1:17 pm
said by videomatic3:said by Mike Wolf:The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. Comcast employees on here said they will never get rid of sc-qam chanels Never is a long time |
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TMC
join:2017-07-16
Naperville, IL |
to Windogg
I had the outage. I didn't get the channel . . . . |
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Outages can occur for any number of reasons. I would prefer an outage due to physical hardware upgrades, anyway. |
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TMC
join:2017-07-16
Naperville, IL |
TMC
Member
2022-Jan-25 2:19 pm
Yeah. Every time there is an outage nowadays, I keep hoping I'll see something good. Hasn't happened yet. |
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ARRIS S33
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to mixdup
said by mixdup:said by videomatic3:said by Mike Wolf:The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. Comcast employees on here said they will never get rid of sc-qam chanels Never is a long time Yep. Look how long it took them to get rid of 2.0 modems, or 4x4 modems. To get rid of all 3.0 modems will take forever |
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 ·Verizon Wireless
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to mixdup
said by mixdup:said by videomatic3:said by Mike Wolf:The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. Comcast employees on here said they will never get rid of sc-qam chanels Never is a long time Well, with them being able to do "extended frequencies" up to 1.8GHz eventually, even a 1.2GHz plant with high split will allow for SC-QAM to exist for at least another decade, as if they'd bother to even upgrade say the 750MHz plant here in Chicago, along with N+0... 1.2GHz would allow them to keep the current QAM TV config, and add ~450MHz to play with for downstream/upstream. Add another 192MHz OFDMA downlink channel, expand upload to ~200MHz total... they'd be able to keep the legacy TV *and* future IP business going for at least a decade if they chose to do so, and offer mutiple-hundred Mbps doing so, keeping 99.9% of users happy (yeah, the nerds here will complain, but we are the minority) And you already know at some point they'll just go to Fiber to the tap, and use coax inside the house, but I do not see that being a thing until TV is gone and/or IP only. I do not see TV being fully turned down until 2025-2026, and those boxes are going to require SC-QAM to stick around for them to function - as it's not even worth making "new" boxes anymore - TV is on it's way out and may as well ride the current 4K gear off into the sunset. |
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said by brad152:I do not see TV being fully turned down until 2025-2026, and those boxes are going to require SC-QAM to stick around for them to function - as it's not even worth making "new" boxes anymore - TV is on it's way out and may as well ride the current 4K gear off into the sunset. Agreed that there isn't as much pressure now to remove QAM TV to free up IP bandwidth given the forthcoming move to full duplex D4.0. Although Comcast will definitely keep making new TV boxes, they'll just be IPTV/OTT-only. The new one, called XiOne, is debuting on Sky cable over in Europe and will first be used in the US as Comcast's next-gen Flex streaming box before also being deployed as an IP-only X1 cable box. It's essentially the replacement for the current Xi6. It may well be 2025 before Comcast wipes out QAM and makes their network IP-only. But eventually they will. Only reason to keep QAM TV around is for compatibility with those QAM-only TV devices still in use, which would include pre-X1 STBs, TV adapters, and Cablecards (i.e. TiVos). Of those three categories, I'd say TV adapters are the only ones still in significant use. All X1 boxes can handle IPTV (most in use can also do QAM) and of course any device using the Xfinity Stream app is IPTV-only. I wonder what % of TVs used with Comcast cable TV at this point are served by QAM-only devices? Still as high as 20%? Down to 10% yet? When that number gets down low enough, the cost and hassle of replacing those devices with IPTV-capable devices will be worth it for Comcast. |
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·Verizon Wireless
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said by NashGuy:said by brad152:I do not see TV being fully turned down until 2025-2026, and those boxes are going to require SC-QAM to stick around for them to function - as it's not even worth making "new" boxes anymore - TV is on it's way out and may as well ride the current 4K gear off into the sunset. Agreed that there isn't as much pressure now to remove QAM TV to free up IP bandwidth given the forthcoming move to full duplex D4.0. Although Comcast will definitely keep making new TV boxes, they'll just be IPTV/OTT-only. The new one, called XiOne, is debuting on Sky cable over in Europe and will first be used in the US as Comcast's next-gen Flex streaming box before also being deployed as an IP-only X1 cable box. It's essentially the replacement for the current Xi6. It may well be 2025 before Comcast wipes out QAM and makes their network IP-only. But eventually they will. Only reason to keep QAM TV around is for compatibility with those QAM-only TV devices still in use, which would include pre-X1 STBs, TV adapters, and Cablecards (i.e. TiVos). Of those three categories, I'd say TV adapters are the only ones still in significant use. All X1 boxes can handle IPTV (most in use can also do QAM) and of course any device using the Xfinity Stream app is IPTV-only. I wonder what % of TVs used with Comcast cable TV at this point are served by QAM-only devices? Still as high as 20%? Down to 10% yet? When that number gets down low enough, the cost and hassle of replacing those devices with IPTV-capable devices will be worth it for Comcast. I do expect them to make new IP only boxes, but nothing relying on a D3/3.1 modem, MoCA, and/or SC-QAM, as they will need something for the person in the house who cannot handle going streaming only. My brother has been staying with me this week, and i'm just amazed at how much he relies on TV just for "background noise" and not even watching it. It's been a good test for the FWA from Verizon on C-Band though.. as it's been ~50GB/day of him just streaming things. I tend to average 3-5GB/day, sometimes as high as 10GB if i'm streaming a few movies in 4K. |
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1 edit |
to videomatic3
said by videomatic3:said by Mike Wolf:The faster everyone starts using a D3.1 or newer device the better. Then Comcast can pare down the number of SC-QAM channels and start reallocating the frequencies to other things. Comcast employees on here said they will never get rid of sc-qam chanels Getting rid of, and paring down the number of, are two different things. As more D3.1 modems and gateways come online they won’t need the same number of SC-QAM they currently have because there will be less D3.0 modems vying for the same bandwidth. Basically it’d be the reverse of when Comcast went from 1 SC-QAM to 4 to 8 to 16 to 24 to 31 during the D3.0 maturation. They can leave just enough SC-QAM for the internal D3.0 modems in the X1 boxes. What is the ratio of D3.1 devices only utilizing the OFDM data stream compared to D3.1 devices only utilizing the SC-QAM? |
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Mike Wolf
1 edit |
to videomatic3
said by videomatic3:Yep. Look how long it took them to get rid of 2.0 modems, or 4x4 modems. To get rid of all 3.0 modems will take forever I don’t think it would take forever if Comcast actually makes the effort. I mean other ISP’s have gone the route of mandating the need for a D3.1 device for certain speed tiers. The XB6, XB7, and XB8 are D3.1 gateways and have been out for several years leading to a large saturation in the field, so it shouldn’t be too hard for Comcast to do the same. They just need to shorten the EOS timeline for customers with older D3.0 devices to upgrade from several years to several months (or sooner) and incrementally expand that mandate to more and more tiers until it encompasses all of them. For customers with Xfinity Voice who own their own telephony gear there are D3.1 telephony gateways for retail sale too. |
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to Windogg
We're at 5 channels (or really 4.5) here in NM right now. |
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Anonef066
Anon
2022-Jan-26 11:10 am
Found six upstream channels this AM. typical speed test. |
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What city are you in? |
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·Verizon Wireless
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to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:said by videomatic3:Yep. Look how long it took them to get rid of 2.0 modems, or 4x4 modems. To get rid of all 3.0 modems will take forever I don’t think it would take forever if Comcast actually makes the effort. I mean other ISP’s have gone the route of mandating the need for a D3.1 device for certain speed tiers. The XB6, XB7, and XB8 are D3.1 gateways and have been out for several years leading to a large saturation in the field, so it shouldn’t be too hard for Comcast to do the same. They just need to shorten the EOS timeline for customers with older D3.0 devices to upgrade from several years to several months (or sooner) and incrementally expand that mandate to more and more tiers until it encompasses all of them. For customers with Xfinity Voice who own their own telephony gear there are D3.1 telephony gateways for retail sale too. Well with OFDM being max of 192MHz wide, and them doing N+0 and node seperation at each leg... they can easily provide ~10Gbps in a 1.2GHz plant and still leave ~8-16 SC-QAM channels to handle legacy equipment, and we already know at some point they're going to get to "Fiber to the tap" further reducing the split and enabling ~2GHz of use in the coax. QAM is a long way from being dead, and even lives on in Fiber on Verizon FiOS. That's also the thing, if they'd just give up and go FTTH.. they could have their cake and eat it too... just put the QAM plant on a different wavelength and PON on another. |
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They could do a lot of things. What they are actually doing, apparently, is 6 channels in the low split. As previously pointed out by someone else, the fact that they are still massaging systems to accept that 6th upstream is a blinking red sign that midsplit is nowhere close, let alone doubled OFDM bandwidth, 1.2ghz systems, DOCSIS 4, FDX, or fiber to the freaking tap. Good lord. They already gave up on N+0 and I hope they give up on a bunch of this other pie in the sky nonsense that is years away at best. |
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to brad152
I think I’ve read on this forum that Comcast stopped doing N+0 and are now doing N+1 or N+2 to speed up the rollout.
I’m more hoping for an eventual two OFDM down, two OFDMA up. |
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Anonef066 to Moffetts
Anon
2022-Jan-26 2:59 pm
to Moffetts
Santa Clara, CA. New-ish building, fiber to the unit, about a foot of coax. |
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Good ol RFoG. So close to the promised land and yet no closer than systems that comcast hasn't touched in a decade or more. |
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·Verizon Wireless
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to Moffetts
said by Moffetts:They could do a lot of things. What they are actually doing, apparently, is 6 channels in the low split. As previously pointed out by someone else, the fact that they are still massaging systems to accept that 6th upstream is a blinking red sign that midsplit is nowhere close, let alone doubled OFDM bandwidth, 1.2ghz systems, DOCSIS 4, FDX, or fiber to the freaking tap. Good lord. They already gave up on N+0 and I hope they give up on a bunch of this other pie in the sky nonsense that is years away at best. It's all a bandaid, and a downfall of being a company the size of comcast that likes to roll out "uniform" upgrades - the bigger the service area, the longer it takes. So, in the meantime they're adding a 5-6th upstream channel to systems "for now" Comcast has been going out daily here for about a month.. so they're close to doing *somthing* in Chicago, but who knows what that really is. said by Mike Wolf:I think I’ve read on this forum that Comcast stopped doing N+0 and are now doing N+1 or N+2 to speed up the rollout.
I’m more hoping for an eventual two OFDM down, two OFDMA up. Even then, N+2 with a 1.2GHz plant and N+2 and node segmentation of each leg, that still gives them plenty of wiggle room in "high split" until they realize it's time to go to FTTP or to the tap itself. |
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Don't forget about 3 GHz DOCSIS (possible without fiber to the tap). It may just push FTTH a little longer into the future.  |
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to brad152
When you really boil it down, "fiber deep" is just pre-emptive node splits. Comcast has struggled to even do that, and all that is is an expansion of standard operating procedure for capacity management. It's no wonder they are having a bear of a time with something entirely new and multi-faceted like midsplit, and there is no doubt in my mind they will struggle for years and years and years on other new initiatives. |
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