AT&T Southeast → Why the different route?

I just wanted to let everyone know that within 25 minutes of my IM to Andy Houtz I received the following response:

2002-12-22 08:24:25 : From Andy Houtz

BellSouth is updating and changing the entire backbone infrastructure. When it is completed it will probably be the best and fastest available. The big problem is implementing the new system while trying not to impact or disconnect anyone. The UUNET routing has been a known problem and effects almost all internet users. It should all be completed soon.
Andy

This response is similar to the post Andy made in this thread. I don't want to seem ungrateful but I have to ask why it took 15 days and a direct request to get a response to the issue being discussed in this thread? If this is a major upgrade, as Andy described, why would BS not notify its customers, particularly the business customers like damoncahill, or have someone from TSG post a notice here?

Yes, I have many unanswered questions, and no, I am not satisfied with Andy's response. Hopefully, damoncahill as a business class customer can get a more substantial response with his letter to the "powers to be".

I would encourage anyone being affected by this issue to send an email to tsg@corp.bellsouth.net or IM Andy with your concerns. It won't do any good to continue to post our ongoing problems related to this issue, your voice will not be heard. I located the following post from Andy in the "news/other" forum which may assist you in voicing your concerns:

Let my team help!
I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience. Please send the following information to me at tsg@corp.bellsouth.net. I will immediately look into your issues and take whatever actions required. Thank you.
-Your name
-Company name
-Contact number(s)
-Link to this thread
-Mark email "Attention Andy"
Andy Houtz
Manager, BSIS TSG

If he is willing to "immediately look into your issues and take whatever actions required" I would think he could do the same with regard to this routing issue we are experiencing.

Joe P

What ever the case may be, I'm thinking positive....

I do think this BRIB won't be operational until BST can offer long distance in every one of it's 9 states. Also, if this BRIB internal backbone is good, then hopefully the routing and latency will be even better than it was before!!! I just hope this backbone doesn't turn into an AOL like infrastructure with 10 hops just to get outside the network and onto the real Internet.

If anyone caught the UUNet and Level3 stuff from the articles, I'm routed thru Level3 to get to work. Still going though UUNet to get to DSLR. In my previous post about route to work, it goes through Philadelphia on Level3 then back.. LOL

anyone have any new info about the routing? I have 5 friends that are also on BSFA DSL and we are all gamers and the ping times are up 40MS everywhere on the east coast.

^^^ BUMP!!!! ^^^

:[:[:[:[:[

I'm in KY (not the East Coast but somewhat close), and I have experienced no issues at all with speeds, latency or ping times. I would say give it a few more days and everything should be back to normal.

steven506,

I believe the main reason you are seeing no change is because Kentucky was going through Atlanta before the change, and is still routing through Atlanta today (I think, please verify if you can).

However, in NC, we use to route through Raleigh-Durham, and now go through New Orleans (Wouldn't Atlanta make more sense?) Also, many people in Florida that used to route through Atlanta now route through New Orleans.

Hopefully you are right, and it will be resolved sooner rather than later. Consider yourself a lucky one! I take 7 hops before I get off of the Bellsouth network in New Orleans, then have to deal with the UUNET issues in New Orleans out. I am now about 70ms just to get off Bellsouth, and averaging 120-140 ms to most test points in North America. Before the change, I was about 25ms to get off of Bellsouth's network, then about 30ms-80ms about anywhere in North America, depending if it was East Coast/West Coast, etc.

Again, hopefully, this will be resolved soon. However, we now know it won't be resolved by changing our routing back (I've been told I will not route through Raleigh-Durham anymore)

Let's try to keep this thread going so we can get Bellsouth to address the issues.

I hope everyone has a great holiday!

I am at work right now, but as of last night I was still routing through Atlanta. Hopefully for you guys/gals Bellsouth and UUnet will get things straightened out very soon. Merry Christmas to everyone.

BellSouth has wreaked by Christmas for sure. I was looking forward to staying home and gaming with good pings and now my pings are terrible. BellSouth better fix it very soon or else I am getting a new ISP for my house and getting rid of my 3 BellSouth T1 lines at work.
[text was edited by author 2002-12-24 12:51:38]

Today my latency has gone down a little bit, instead of the normal 80-120's that i have been getting since the routing changes, im in the 60-70's... anyone else seeing a little better latency? Hopefully this is just (1) step to get our pings back to the normal 20-30's =).

said by damoncahill:

---

steven506,
I believe the main reason you are seeing no change is because Kentucky was going through Atlanta before the change, and is still routing through Atlanta today (I think, please verify if you can).

---

Before the change we were getting routed through Chicago or at least I was.

doh, spoke too soon. My pings/latency are only 10ms better. Better than nothing though =)

We used to be solid as a rock. Never a change, numbers were always same everyday. We became accustomed to first rate service. That is why this is soooo shocking to your nervous system. They say change is good...NOT ALWAYS. It wasn't broke, LEAVE IT ALONE.[/b}. Why can't it be put back the way it was until they can do it properly. If this keeps up it won't only be the East Coast that's screwed up.

If they, and I mean BS, World Com Etc would stop giving out 7 figure bonus's and laying off help they would have the money to put into equipment.

I had to get that off my chest...now, let me wish all of you out there:
[b]A Very Merry Christmas

Dave

Can any BellSouth techs answer my question if or when the regular routing will be put back into service.

yes, plz fix the routing back to the way it was. i just switched from comcast to bs because they couldnt decide which route they were going to take.

i'm having similar problems here (Hollywood (ft. lauderdale) florida):
>> traceroute -I www.dslreports.com
traceroute to dslreports.com (209.123.109.175), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 adsl-80-252-1.mia.bellsouth.net (65.80.252.1) 11.691 ms 11.167 ms 11.494 ms
2 adsl-152-108-161.mia.bellsouth.net (205.152.108.161) 12.105 ms 16.700 ms 11.228 ms
3 209.215.49.46 (209.215.49.46) 10.987 ms 12.000 ms 12.683 ms
4 65.83.237.8 (65.83.237.8) 11.396 ms 11.047 ms 11.261 ms
5 65.83.236.31 (65.83.236.31) 29.868 ms 29.744 ms 30.227 ms
6 65.83.236.36 (65.83.236.36) 29.581 ms 29.286 ms 29.702 ms
7 500.so-0-0-0.GW5.NOL1.ALTER.NET (65.208.10.17) 29.840 ms 29.102 ms 29.956 ms
8 0.so-3-0-0.CL1.NOL1.ALTER.NET (152.63.102.98) 29.608 ms 29.657 ms 30.931 ms
9 0.so-0-0-0.TL1.DFW9.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.193) 42.885 ms 43.803 ms 43.251 ms
10 0.so-2-2-0.TL1.NYC9.ALTER.NET (152.63.1.118) 80.352 ms 81.463 ms 80.471 ms
11 0.so-3-0-0.XL1.NYC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.27.29) 82.051 ms 83.063 ms 81.439 ms
12 0.so-0-0-0.XR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.19.85) 81.851 ms 81.589 ms 83.192 ms
13 507.ATM7-0.GW7.NYC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.25.73) 82.300 ms 507.ATM6-0.GW7.NYC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.25.81) 81.525 ms 507.ATM7-0.GW7.NYC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.25.73) 84.221 ms
14 nac-nyc-gw1.customer.alter.net (157.130.9.142) 95.553 ms 96.306 ms 95.489 ms
15 www.dslreports.com (209.123.109.175) 93.765 ms 93.798 ms 94.297 ms

so, from a once 45-50 ms ping to dslreports, i now get the 95 ms of today, jee, i love "improvement."

said by Rogerquake9:

---

Can any BellSouth techs answer my question if or when the regular routing will be put back into service.

---

If you really want to know, try going to Page 5 of this thread and read some of what has taken place prior to today with regard to getting a response from anyone at BellSouth.

Joe P

BTW: Here is an excerpt from one of my posts on that page:

"I would encourage anyone being affected by this issue to send an email to tsg@corp.bellsouth.net or IM Andy with your concerns. It won't do any good to continue to post our ongoing problems related to this issue, your voice will not be heard."
[text was edited by author 2002-12-25 23:05:48]

BellSouth has gotten to be terrible.

This is pathetic, 14kbps downstream! This has become unbearable. When are we gonna get some real answers. I'm tired of calling tech support, rebooting my PC another 20 times is not gonna make a difference. This is pure uncaring neglect on BS's part. Truly sad!!!

P.S. It's a miracle I was able to post this. Took several tries.

Do we have an understanding of what has happened now?

BS is trying to move to a new internal architecture called BRIB, which according to Andy Houtz (who we all know and love) will be even better than the one BS has in place now. Unfortunately when they began moving some people to this new BRIB some problems cropped up. This is why people are having the latency issues.

Don't jump ship just yet. BS has proven to be reliable in the past and will work through the problems you are seeing today and continue to be reliable in the future.

A few people posted about bellsouth screwing over there customers trying to save a buck, and thats just not true.

In order to continue to provide the service and reliability that you have come to expect from BS, they need this new architecture. The BRIB will also be a platform for launching new services in the future, services you will be demanding and would be unavailable otherwise.

I know that doesn't help anyone that is having poor service right now, but just trying to put some perspective on it.

Its not BS disregarding the customers service in order to save a few pennies, its growing pains as BS is doing their best to continue to be your provider of choice in the future as well as meet you current needs.

ElJeffe,

I seriously doubt that any routing issues are causing you to have only 14kbps downstream. Whether you're tired of calling or not, you should take some steps to determine what your (individual) problem is. Maybe open a new thread with some specifics on your situation and see if someone here can help.

Good luck!

RJ

I have not posted in this thread because I have not been affected by the rerouting until now. This is what I have experienced. Slight slow down to some central US servers, but my ping to the east coast has actually gotten better. Seems like things may be turning around.

DSLR Line monitor

The gap in September and October was the transition from apartment to house.

As you can see, the first week of December marks the beginning of the bad routing. (sigh)

said by logic1977:

---

Do we have an understanding of what has happened now?

BS is trying to move to a new internal architecture called BRIB, which according to Andy Houtz (who we all know and love) will be even better than the one BS has in place now. Unfortunately when they began moving some people to this new BRIB some problems cropped up. This is why people are having the latency issues.

Don't jump ship just yet. BS has proven to be reliable in the past and will work through the problems you are seeing today and continue to be reliable in the future.

A few people posted about bellsouth screwing over there customers trying to save a buck, and thats just not true.

In order to continue to provide the service and reliability that you have come to expect from BS, they need this new architecture. The BRIB will also be a platform for launching new services in the future, services you will be demanding and would be unavailable otherwise.

I know that doesn't help anyone that is having poor service right now, but just trying to put some perspective on it.

Its not BS disregarding the customers service in order to save a few pennies, its growing pains as BS is doing their best to continue to be your provider of choice in the future as well as meet you current needs.

---

Very nice message...It should have been written weeks ago when this whole thing started. That is what people mean when they say BS is disregarding their customers. Another
point you don't even attempt to answer, is what about a time frame, even an approximation is better than nothing.

Dave:[

I call up BellSouth tech support and they just give me the run around. I get some tech that knows even less then my 10year old son about DSL. Tells me it's bad weather causing the bad routing. :P
[text was edited by author 2002-12-27 15:37:27]

You should have known what the lvl 1 techs would say =) They always bring a smile to my face when they tell me to delete my temporary internet files. =)

I just thought I might get lucky, heh.

I just felt like adding my peace of mind in too. Well up until the 21 my DSL was awesome. Then it changed I have some gaming servers that I host up in New York. That my ping used to be 40ms too. Then all of the sudden Bellsouth decides to reroute me. Look at this routing they bypassed UUNET. Which is who I used to go through! And went to some other 2nd rate isp. This routing look funny? Routing me from south carolina to texas then to new york ?

1 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms adsl-78-156-1.chs.bellsouth.net [216.78.156.1]
2 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms adsl-20-124-1.chs.bellsouth.net [66.20.124.1]
3 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 205.152.175.248
4 240 ms 320 ms 331 ms 205.152.175.33
5 10 ms 20 ms 11 ms 205.152.135.185
6 31 ms 30 ms 30 ms 65.83.237.54
7 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms 65.83.236.36
8 40 ms 50 ms 50 ms so-2-0 0.gar2.dal1.Level3.net [67.72.4.1]
9 40 ms 50 ms 40 ms pos6-0.core1.Dallas1.Level3.net [209.244.15.150]

10 40 ms 50 ms 50 ms so-0-2-0.jm1l.Dallas1.Level3.net [64.158.168.66]

11 90 ms 100 ms 100 ms DLL2J1-MLE2.splitrock.net [64.199.21.73]
12 100 ms 100 ms 100 ms zzz-209255126246.splitrock.net [209.255.126.246]

13 100 ms 110 ms 110 ms IGSPROXY2.prodigy.net [207.115.49.13]
14 IGSPROXY2.prodigy.net [207.115.49.13] reports: Destination net unreachable
.

Trace complete.

Then this one even gets better. I used to ping 40ms to this one too. This other gaming server I used to play on is based in atlanta. Now Im in Charleston, SC. Bellsouth takes me from atlanta then to texas then back to atlanta. to get to a server that was in atlanta in the 1st place.

1 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms adsl-78-156-1.chs.bellsouth.net [216.78.156.1]
2 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms adsl-20-124-1.chs.bellsouth.net [66.20.124.1]
3 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 205.152.175.248
4 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 205.152.175.33
5 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 205.152.135.249
6 30 ms 40 ms 40 ms 65.83.237.54
7 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms 65.83.236.36
8 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms 500.so-2-0-0.GW5.NOL1.ALTER.NET [65.208.10.21]
9 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms 0.so-3-0-0.CL2.NOL1.ALTER.NET [152.63.102.102]
10 40 ms 50 ms 50 ms 0.so-0-0-0.TL2.HOU7.ALTER.NET [152.63.101.193]
11 70 ms 70 ms 80 ms 0.so-4-0-0.TL2.ATL1.ALTER.NET [152.63.101.49]
12 60 ms 70 ms 70 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XL4.ATL1.ALTER.NET [152.63.86.102]
13 70 ms 80 ms 70 ms 194.ATM4-0.GW4.ATL3.ALTER.NET [152.63.81.53]
14 90 ms 100 ms 90 ms internap-gw1.customer.alter.net [157.130.89.90]

15 90 ms 91 ms 90 ms border5.ge3-1-bbnet1.acs.pnap.net [64.94.0.10]
16 90 ms 90 ms 100 ms globalhosting-1.border5.acs.pnap.net [64.94.2.20
2]
17 80 ms 90 ms 80 ms OGH007 [66.150.29.221]

Now Ive called bellsouth and Emailed them. And they consistently blame it on UUNET. Which from reading these post I know its not them. Bellsouth has literally destroyed the whole east coast. In one month. How long will it take for them to get it back the way it was ? If anyones intrested in attempting to be heard please reply to this post. Im thinking we need to start a petition. And who knows where that will lead maybe then we will get some answers. Until the people that use there services Join as one we will never get a straight answer. Anyone intrested please reply back. Im all for going against big corperations that think the little people dont matter.

After all if it wasnt for the people they wouldnt be a business.

First off there is noting wrong with my line. I had a second effort team specialist come and repair and isolate my line. It works and tests perfect. But recently ever since this routing issue began, my performance at late night, early morning has gone to CRAP!!! Little to no bandwidth period. It is the same thing every single day (fine) and every single night (crap) for the past 2 or so weeks. BS tech level 1 support has no idea whats going on except to do the usual reboot PC and clear temp files. Script readers are not going to fix this issue. Myself like many others in this forum are more knowledgeable than the tier 1 techs sorry to say. The line techs find no problems either, and other friends of mine are having the same problem. Im trying to get a hold of the the specialist from BS and see if he can shed some light but I would like to know officially what is the problem and how long till its gone. Keeping customers in the dark is neglecting them.

C:\DOCUME~1\EMERT>tracert www.dslreports.com

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 17 ms 16 ms 14 ms adsl-61-152-1.mia.bellsouth.net [208.61.152.1
3 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms adsl-152-108-1.mia.bellsouth.net [205.152.108

4 14 ms 16 ms 16 ms 209.215.49.30
5 17 ms 14 ms 16 ms 65.83.237.8
6 33 ms 34 ms 33 ms 65.83.236.31
7 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 65.83.236.36
8 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 500.so-0-0-0.GW5.NOL1.ALTER.NET [65.208.10.17
9 34 ms 36 ms 34 ms 0.so-3-0-0.CL1.NOL1.ALTER.NET [152.63.102.98]
10 49 ms 48 ms 49 ms 0.so-1-0-0.TL1.HOU7.ALTER.NET [152.63.101.157
11 95 ms 93 ms 93 ms 0.so-7-0-0.TL1.NYC8.ALTER.NET [152.63.146.53]
12 87 ms 87 ms 86 ms 0.so-1-2-0.XL1.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.21]
13 94 ms 95 ms 93 ms 0.so-0-0-0.XR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.19.85]
14 94 ms 93 ms 94 ms 507.ATM7-0.GW7.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.25.73]
15 91 ms 91 ms 90 ms nac-nyc-gw1.customer.alter.net [157.130.9.142
16 92 ms 92 ms 92 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.

I find it EXTREMELY intresting that we get routed to Houston Texas First before we go to NYC.. that is plain BS..

I will sit it out and wait until bellsouth pulls ahead and starts fixing thier stuff..