Ruby Ranch on FCC Ruling → clecs r doomed

Waaa Waaaa Waaaa

we want service but we are to cheap to pay the full price.

Way to make it an idiot out of yourself, this guys are not a CLEC.

these people are leasing the lines from quest for three and a half bucks... if one line were damaged and quest had to come out and resolve this issue, it would take years of leasing the line to equal the cost of the trip to reapir the line......... this make a lot of freaking since

I wonder who you work for...

THEY ARE SHARED LOOPS!!!!. Qwest is already providing Voice services thru them so they already charge the customer for those eventualities.

said by harley00:

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Waaa Waaaa Waaaa

we want service but we are to cheap to pay the full price.

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Another stupid Telco Shill. This is a rural co-op working on their own to bring Broadband where the big ILEC's don't care.... but still want $$$$ for someone else's service.

Pull your head out of the sand and get a real job.

said by harley00:

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these people are leasing the lines from quest for three and a half bucks... if one line were damaged and quest had to come out and resolve this issue, it would take years of leasing the line to equal the cost of the trip to reapir the line......... this make a lot of freaking since

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Qwest would *already* have to fix the line if it was damaged because the maintenance costs are paid for by the POTS service.... *duh*

You forget that these lines have telephone service on them already and therefore maintenance on the lines is already taken care of.... so in other words, this is an extra $3.50 a month in Qwest's pocket they wouldn't of otherwise gotten.

Wake up.

True, qwest would have to fix the line anyway if it was effecting the voice line.... but dsl is much more senstive than the voice over the cable pair. Do you think that the co-op will resolve the issues on the cable that are causing issues with the dsl.. no. who does....qwest. Does the co op or clec pay for this ... no. qwest does at no cost to the co-op or clec.

said by KrK:

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said by harley00:

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Waaa Waaaa Waaaa

we want service but we are to cheap to pay the full price.

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Another stupid Telco Shill. This is a rural co-op working on their own to bring Broadband where the big ILEC's don't care.... but still want $$$$ for someone else's service.

Pull your head out of the sand and get a real job.

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Do you troll DSL Reports looking for people to call Telco Shills Krk?
Do you even read the posts before you make such moronic comments?
It's you that I suggest "Pull your head out of the sand and get a real job." Any job.
[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 15:07:54]

said by harley00:

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True, qwest would have to fix the line anyway if it was effecting the voice line.... but dsl is much more senstive than the voice over the cable pair. Do you think that the co-op will resolve the issues on the cable that are causing issues with the dsl.. no. who does....qwest. Does the co op or clec pay for this ... no. qwest does at no cost to the co-op or clec.

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What the f*ck are you talking about? Someone is paying for the line or there wouldn't be service in the first place.

Put down the bong and stop pretending you know what you're talking about.

What line? the pots?

physically one pair of copper is used, If I go on a toll road and pay for my vehical to go through then why cant I have another vehical with no extra cost? all I want to do is piggy back on the same road!

1- pair of copper = toll road

1-4khz =1 car

20khz -1.1 Mhz= car# 2

Why, and tell in your own words not a cut and paste thing should I pay the state highway department twice?
[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 16:04:42]

[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 16:05:11]

said by Gordon Gekko:

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What line? the pots?

physically one pair of copper is used, If I go on a toll road and pay for my vehical to go through then why cant I have another vehical with no extra cost? all I want to do is piggy back on the same road!

1- pair of copper = toll road

1-4khz =1 car

20khz -1.1 Mhz= car# 2

Why, and tell in your own words not a cut and paste thing should I pay the state highway department twice?
[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 16:04:42]

[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 16:05:11]

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Bad example...most toll roads do charge more for larger vehicles like trucks or those with trailers.

And it's not because they tear of the road more. It's because the truck operators will pay it...just like you.

said by Hall:

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I wonder who you work for...

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If he kissed CLEC ass would you ask the same lame question?

said by KrK:

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said by harley00:

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these people are leasing the lines from quest for three and a half bucks... if one line were damaged and quest had to come out and resolve this issue, it would take years of leasing the line to equal the cost of the trip to reapir the line......... this make a lot of freaking since

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Qwest would *already* have to fix the line if it was damaged because the maintenance costs are paid for by the POTS service.... *duh*

You forget that these lines have telephone service on them already and therefore maintenance on the lines is already taken care of.... so in other words, this is an extra $3.50 a month in Qwest's pocket they wouldn't of otherwise gotten.

Wake up.

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You think that delivering and maintaining DSL is as simple as POTS? Holy smokes. I guess since you paid for a tire rotation that you shouldn't have to pay for an oil change or a car wash.

While line share DSL is slightly more difficult than maintaining POTS, the extra maintenance expense is already paid for by the CLEC under the current rules. It would be illegal to have POTS subsidize DSL.

On the off chance you are a RBOC employee, think of this: when people go with a CLEC, 75% of the time they are not choosing a CLEC over a RBOC, they are choosing DSL over *cable*. When a customer goes with cable cable, the RBOC gets nothing. This is profoundly negative to the RBOCs, because the cable companies are starting to bundle *good* cable telephony with their service. Believe it or not, for a RBOC, a good ISP CLEC is the best ally you have. CLECs keep the traffic on the telephone network. If RBOCs don't move soon to promote independent ISPs, game over, cable won.

Actually, it might already be too late....

I am CEO of a ISP with 55,000 customers. 26,000 are cable high speed. 1,000 are DSL (signed up in the last six months.) 28,000 are dial-up. I would prefer to use DSL line share in the future, but I sure enough don't have to. Ask yourself: do you want to have me use wireless, cable or your network? I don't need you, but you sure enough need me.

Oh, by the way, we actively work to hire good RBOC employees, though we would no longer be motiviated to do so if line share goes away. We endeavor to keep these ex-RBOCers more happy than they were at the RBOC...

said by harley00:

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Do you think that the co-op will resolve the issues on the cable that are causing issues with the dsl.. no. who does....qwest. Does the co op or clec pay for this ... no. qwest does at no cost to the co-op or clec.

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Um, Qwest babrely repairs its own DSL serviced lines. When I lived in Denver, we ordered DSL, and it took them 4 months to finaly tell us that they couldnt offer it to us becaause of something in the ground that they decided they werent going to remove after all. But, 6 months after that, we were still paying for DSL service that we werent getting because when we didnt, they cut off our phone. So, actualy, Qwest doesnt repair sh!t out there.

Phone companies are doomed. Mine offered me half the speed at 1.5 times the price of my cable ISP if i would bundle an unneeded land line into it.After I stopped laughing I told them to disconnect the landline I had. Screw them.Cellphones and cable all the way.I feel that my cable company will have fiber to my house way before the telco since they can offer more pay per services with more bandwidth.Add to that the increase in wireless phone bandwidth coming soon and I surely am not putting my 401K into telco stocks.Oh, also can someone tell me why my landline was more expensive than my cell phone? (Can you say monopoly)

While you make some good points, you leave out one scenario from the RBOC point of view. Having a customer with CLEC-serviced DSL (and using the RBOCs copper) may be better than a customer using cable modem, but even better yet is a customer using both your copper pair AND your DSL/ISP service. And, AFAIK, only Comcast is offering dialtone via cable.

said by harley00:

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True, qwest would have to fix the line anyway if it was effecting the voice line.... but dsl is much more senstive than the voice over the cable pair.

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Thats why DSL providers don't guarantee speeds on DSL, cause the ILEC only has to maintain the line to carry POTS. I challenge you to find ILEC's that will come fix your line cause you say it's messing with your DSL, more that likely you get a "vendor cancellation"

only Comcast is offering dialtone via cable.

I guess that wells fargo, ademco, detection systems, radionics and notifier Manufacturers and alarm companies will have to go cellular because now the homes that want cable for their dailtone will not be able to have an alarm system in their house. There is no way an insurance company will back any central station if the communication has to come over a network and would have to depend on routers to get the fire/burglar alarm! If this should happen we will see a lot of law suits.s

I dont know where you live, but here we pay $30mo for the cell phone and $15mo for the landline. Of course, the cell phone does come with caller id and call waiting, which we cancelled on our landline because we dont use it. But if we did, it would be around $30mo, same as the cell. But, we have unlimited local calling, and the cell only gives us 300 anytime minutes a mo. Personaly, I would love to cancell the landline and move to cell, but, its still more expensive in most areas.

Oh, and about your comment on cable, I dont think cable is more superior to DSL, they are about equal in most cases. Cable usualy gives you faster speeds, but with DSL, those speeds are dedicated, no sharing. Anyway, thats a debate for another thread.

This wasnt meant to flame you, I was just curious as to what cell company you use and who provides your dial tone service.

So you say your getting 2.2 megs for 20 dollars. I guess this bell customer is a better shopper or you live too far away. dont blame the bells. Just look at this guy he is very happy and there are a lot more theN him that love the services they get from the bell companies

»Review of AT&T Southwest by danw5zt
[text was edited by author 2003-02-23 18:57:18]

said by jhboricua:

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THEY ARE SHARED LOOPS!!!!. Qwest is already providing Voice services thru them so they already charge the customer for those eventualities.

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These loops will not be shared lines! They will be dedicated lines between the homeowners and the building owned by the association where the DSL network equipment will be located. The article clearly pointed out that the association's equipment would not be located in the local central office; therefore there is no way that their DSL service could share the same line as the voice service to the homeowner. These people are leasing point to point circuits, that it happens they will use to provide DSL service. They could use these lines for anything that is capable of being transmitted in the bandwidth of the circuit. The use of that bandwidth is of no concern to the local telephone company. They are not a CLEC, they are just like any other business that needs point to point circuits and should be paying the same rates! Had they just gone to the local telephone company and ordered the number of point to point circuits they needed, without pretending to be a CLEC they would have their service up and running by now!

FCC Ruling Deals a Rough Blow to Telecom

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE AMERICA
»biz.yahoo.com/tsp/030221 ··· 7_1.html

Question: Have you ever made or received a call and wanted another person (wife, kid, parent, ...) to listen in and participate in the conversation? Cell phones don't hack it!

With land lines this is as easy as multiple jacks and/or a splitter.

Also remember that 911 emergency services, though promised on cell, still do not have the location determination reliability of a land line.

Think carefully before you drop POTS completely. It is reliable and useful. Just imagine a three day power failure where you cannot recharge your phone.

I know this response is a little off from where the thread was going, but I think that the idea of dropping landline service may be a bigger mistake than most people realize.

It was Sprint. It cost about $3 a month more than my cell and was nothing more than a conduit for telemarketers to interupt my dinner.Since I already need the cell for my job it was a no brainer in my case. You are right. Just becuse it works for me doesnt mean its best for other people.

u can recharge the phone in the car you know

I have a car charger. No I never made a call I wanted someone else to listen to. I know my address.

said by fkittred:

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On the off chance you are a RBOC employee, think of this: when people go with a CLEC, 75% of the time they are not choosing a CLEC over a RBOC, they are choosing DSL over *cable*.

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Maybe this falls into the other 25%, but it seems that around here when someone chooses a CLEC over a RBOC, they are choosing 1500 kbps download over 768 kbps download.

said by rchdjellis:

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Question: Have you ever made or received a call and wanted another person (wife, kid, parent, ...) to listen in and participate in the conversation? Cell phones don't hack it!

With land lines this is as easy as multiple jacks and/or a splitter.

Also remember that 911 emergency services, though promised on cell, still do not have the location determination reliability of a land line.

Think carefully before you drop POTS completely. It is reliable and useful. Just imagine a three day power failure where you cannot recharge your phone.

I know this response is a little off from where the thread was going, but I think that the idea of dropping landline service may be a bigger mistake than most people realize.

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Such nonsense. POTS is crap. Quality is crap and it's overpriced, WAY overpriced. I dumped POTS COMPLETELY for VoIP and have superior call quality compared to the static filled crap I got from Verizon. For the price of POTS with 2 calling features I got to choose my own number and area code, free local calls anywhere in my area code (no retarded ZUM charges), free voicemail, caller ID, 500 LD minutes to anywhere in the US and Canada and yeah...I disconnected the POTS at the box so I have VoIP on every jack.

As for 911...that's what speed dial is for.

Power outage? You have to go a long way to find a phone that isn't AC powered anymore.

If you have a 3 day power failure...your phone is the least of your problems.

POTS sucks...bigtime.