AT&T Southeast → Re: HOW LONG????????????

Parputt,

That little bit of Swing can be from anything and is normal. Try it at 2 am and see what happens.

I see swings like this all day long. Even on our T1 lines here at work. One min traces give me 20ms times, an hour later that same one might give me a 70ms times. It just depends on how much traffic is hitting the router at the time you trace through it. Also, until it hits the 150ms mark, the ONLY programs that will ever notice this are games. So, that means that 90% of all the users on the network will never notice it.

This is not something that is easily fixable as it's a flaw in the very nature of TCP/IP. The next generation of TCP/IP protocols are supposed to fix a lot of this, but they have been taunting it's release for years.

As for games, should any ISP be punished with the task of making their network respond to the poorly developed code of online games? I say that because most of the networking scripting used in the FPS type games was designed for LAN networks, where all your PC's are plugging into the same hub. Not for Internet access. That was just a port over they made. So, your trying to take something that was designed to work on a local, 10/100mb lan to other PC and servers in the same room or building and running it over a 1.5mb WAN to servers and PC's around the globe.

Perhaps you guys should be complaining to the Gaming industry for not designing the proper amount of tolerance into their software.

Robby

This is a bellsouth issue, the pings to that hop are very steady and do not change throughout the day. The changes come at the top of an early morning hour 12am, 1am, 3am which generally indicates it is a pre-planned service adjustment. BS told me they plan on another service adjustment wed night and I am hoping it goes back to "normal".

This is not a complicated issue, simply that BS is internally routing us different then they were before.

Parputt doesn't need any help in his defense but I do see his side....

His latency has doubled compared to prior to BRIB implementation while it has been consistently stated that customers will see less hops and reduced latency. Those prior BS statements are not holding true and it was an expectation placed there by BS. If they can't be accountable to what they say it doesn't bode well, especially when the response has to fall back to 'legally we don't have to because the service is only best effort'...

I see Parputts side. I fully understand what he is trying to say.

Just because I offer a different point of view does not mean I don't understand. I'm merely stating my point of view on the matter and the reasoning behind it so that you guys might understand what I mean. That's what a discussion is about. Looking at a subject and discussing all points of view. This is a discussion board, not a one sided argument board.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Robby

What is so hard to understand is that generally you offer only one point of view, instead of seeing the problem and offering advice to correct the problem, you generally point out (as well as others) that you don't see the actual problem, because it is acceptable. I do nothing but IT from the core, to over 2000 WAN sites, then handle every single LAN inside each WAN on a daily basis, both turnup and maintenance.
I'm tired of seeing this kind of crap when there is much more to offer to folks that have complaints about how the "service isn't what it used to be". If we didn't raise our voices, no one would have thought to fix any kind of routing, for it would've been overlooked (my opinion).

We've spoken before in an IM, and we both know where each other comes from, so what I'm saying is ease up and see the big picture and quite trying to resolve issues by saying "That's acceptable", etc....

/end rant

Beat me up, call a mod, whatever, but I will point out how many times you've said "You" in just this day alone...

said by wolfmanrobby:

---

Just because I offer a different point of view does not mean I don't understand. I'm merely stating my point of view on the matter and the reasoning behind it so that you guys might understand what I mean. That's what a discussion is about. Looking at a subject and discussing all points of view. This is a discussion board, not a one sided argument board.

Why is that so hard to understand?

---

Mainly because your response to people having problems (whether valid contractual ones or perceived ones), is to tell them that they are "just playing a game" and "bellsouth doesn't have to do a thing". Most of these threads are started with concerns about service. It really doesn't matter whether a user is downloading smutt, playing online games, or getting hints on their golf swing via a newsgroup. Telling them that their use of the service isn't officially supported is a load, when they have had no problems with that service for years prior.

Regarding bellsouth's support and not seeing anything to defend: How do you promise a active group of people in a thread that you will post on a date and not? That is poor service. Don't bother bringing legality into it, that would be a poor choice.

And maybe my comparison should be more like: You buy a new Mercedes, drive it for months. One day, all 4 wheels fall off and you go over a cliff. Amazingly you live through it with only a few broken limbs.

Thats what gamers feel like here. People making comments like yours would be likened to the guy in the ravine who stands over your broken body, telling you how it's your fault for buying a car and driving it, then kicking you occasionally.

I guess it all ends in: If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Hmmm,thoust doth protest too much. I never said you didn't understand, just letting you know I understand it without the extra implications of poor game coding, Internet vs. LAN latency, gamers stressing the system, ping time industry standards, this is a discussion board, etc.

It seems that two cross purposes are a major part of the discussion without a way to find a solution - one is the expectation set at the start of the BRIB project that is not being met and two, the industry standards and legal obligations of BSFA. These appear to be an argumentative approach instead of a solution path.

Now, I agree this is a discussion board, let's let it continue without taking it personally, feeling others don't understand the value of the board or attacking others comments.