Tauzin-Dingell is Evil → Re: What a tool....

"I don't believe there is a single RBOC that is keeping a single CLEC from deploying their own facilities, from start to finish."

Don't have to keep them from deploying, you just have to have it take too long, cost too much, and have your sales agents pitch your DSL service when people call to order service from another ISP.

BTW, do you happen to work for the RBOC that placed a CLEC switch in an employee smoking room, with an open window, until the switch failed due to bird crap in the switch from the nests that were allowed to be built in the switch? BTW, the CLEC was not allowed to touch their own switch, due to "space constraints", but required to deliver it for install and maintenance by the RBOC.

"Go get 'em tiger!"

Re-read the post, I'm slagging the telcos.

I'm sorry, you're right. I'll send a memo to marketing telling them TFN; promote all the competition, do not attempt to sell our own service. And we'll make sure that all those one way calls that go to your friendly neighborhood isp that we have to pay billions a year for is paid on time so as not to disrupt service to anyone, cause without those unfair payments, several isp's would go down. Today! I'll also tell our guards at the city offices to step back and let the CLEC's in to request right-of-way permits they haven't been able to get so they can now go ahead with that facility laying project they want to get into so desperately.

"BTW", you forgot to mention that all the RBOC's together have spent over a billion on CO enlargement projects so the CLEC's could place their own equipment. (do YOU mind if I use some of your house, I'm going to be in your town soon and will need a place to stay, I promise I won't make a mess, "BTW" it is the law) If the situation you speak of is true about the placement of the switch, can you honestly say that there was another place to put it? Or was the CLEC in such a hurry that they chose to put it at the first available location. Remember, when the ILEC built THEIR VERY OWN CO'S, letting the competition in the front door was not on their mind.

If any CLEC wants to place any kind of cable down my street, get after it! But please stay away from my provider's equipment as I don't want their hands anywhere near the equipment owned by the company that they believe is keeping them from being successful. It just don't make good sense.

Oh, I'm sorry, how un-American of me to ask that the law be enforced, that monopolies be prevented from exploiting their captive customers(which, btw, include those "putzes" you so obviously love to provide quality service), that when customers are required by law to call the ILEC for their line that the order taker not attempt to steal that DSL customer by lying to the customer, that you quit trying to sell me a bill of goods that is an ouright fabrication, and anyone who has dealt with any ILEC for more than 10 minutes knows is a lie.

BTW, I see where Verizon just announced $2 Billion in profits for this last quarter, before one time charges.

And reciprocal compensation was the idea of the ILEC's, and they just didn't like it when they ended up having to pay, instead of collecting as they planned, but don't worry, that was killed last week.

And when ILEC's get the right to sell long distance, do the LD companies have to put up their own last mile of lines also, or will you allow them to continue "stealing" from you to get access to customers.

BTW, ILEC's are getting anything and everything they want from regulators and legislatures, and are making record profits. So why the hell are y'all so damn whiny?

I guess we'll just have to wait until those same companies decide to bust your union because they don't feel like sharing any of those profits with you. THEN we'll hear a different song, but too late, and out of tune.

Good luck!

No luck needed, but thanks anyway. Please indulge me, give me one example (name, company name, and date) where an "order taker" tried to convince a customer to not go with the ISP that they originally ask for. You haven't mentioned the scenario that has customers calling the ISP direct for the service which is how the majority of alternative carriers do business. After the end user calls the CLEC, the CLEC then sends the order to the ILEC for processing. The EU never talks to the ILEC. To be honest, I'm not sure there are many situations like that anymore. Maybe a small ISP that has one or two frame DS1's into the ILEC network, then resales the majority of the service.

As for profits, my company's profit margin is down. Down from one year ago, as well as from the last quarter '00. This is due to competition and 6 billion we're trying to spend to get broadband closer to the end user. Competition is here. One thing I have seen from being close to the situation besides flat out lies from the CLEC, is poor quality of service from the CLEC. So poor that customers are now starting to switch back to the ILEC in mass amounts because the alternative is a joke. And if companies like Northpoint continue tank, there will be more and more end users that want service they can depend on.

said by Abe froman - towing the company line:

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I'm sorry, you're right. I'll send a memo to marketing telling them TFN; promote all the competition, do not attempt to sell our own service. And we'll make sure that all those one way calls that go to your friendly neighborhood isp that we have to pay billions a year for is paid on time so as not to disrupt service to anyone, cause without those unfair payments, several isp's would go down. Today!

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Put the propaganda manual down for a minute.

1 - As an ISP "partner" (such a cheerful term coined by Bell Atlantic), I have spoken with our customers who were told by Bell reps that "if you want your DSL to work, switch to Bell". The truth? They upgraded to new equipment, and "forgot" to provision any circuits but their own onto said equipment. Anti-Competitive, blatant fraud. If we had an equally large legal team...

2 - Don't pull that crap about reciporical compensation. Such a short memory. The Bells WANTED it that way. CLECs were lobbying for traditional "bill and keep" (whichever carrier originates the call collects the money), but the Bells thought that reciporical comp (whoever the call terminates to gets paid) would make them more money. They were wrong. Now they are saying a call that terminates in a modem two blocks away is a "long distance" call. Hello?

said by Abe froman - roach motel CO:

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"BTW", you forgot to mention that all the RBOC's together have spent over a billion on CO enlargement projects so the CLEC's could place their own equipment. (do YOU mind if I use some of your house, I'm going to be in your town soon and will need a place to stay, I promise I won't make a mess, "BTW" it is the law) If the situation you speak of is true about the placement of the switch, can you honestly say that there was another place to put it? Or was the CLEC in such a hurry that they chose to put it at the first available location. Remember, when the ILEC built THEIR VERY OWN CO'S, letting the competition in the front door was not on their mind.

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Or you could look at it from the consumer angle. "I want fast internet, my phone company is too large and dumb to provide it, I wish I had a choice"... There are so many rotting, crappy COs in areas that the telco just doesn't care about, so they make a big show about upgrading their ancient crap when the CLECs whine about space. Comeon. Take a tour of the 18th street CO in NYC.

The worst part of this monopoly attitude is the indignity. ATT built it all for you and handed it over. Most of the Bells then let it rot and focused on T-carrier services to pay the bills. Remember ISDN?? Oh boy, new linecards in the 5E, must have cost a bundle!

When you provide crappy service, expect people to want something else. If your competitor wants to exercise their legal rights, what's the problem??? The telco's were too greedy to roll out DSL sooner (I saw a trial of DSL in '95, it worked, was essentially the same as what we have now) maybe there wouldn't be such a fuss.

Remember why the CLECs wanted in on the CO colo? There were some enterprising ISPs way back when who wanted to order dry copper... Didn't even want to be in the CO. Just wanted a leg from the customer to the CO, and from the CO to the closest space they could rent to the CO. What did the telco's do then? Get rid of the tariff for "alarm lines", otherwise known as dry copper.

How about you mention what it COSTS per month to colo in a CO? How about the billing for electricity in the CO? The list goes on and on. The Bells are MAKING MONEY on the colos - even if they have to build out. There's plenty, gobs even, of capital. It WILL be recouped.

Stop shifting the blame around. This whole thing is playing out in your favor at every turn.

said by Abe froman - no dirty hands:

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If any CLEC wants to place any kind of cable down my street, get after it! But please stay away from my provider's equipment as I don't want their hands anywhere near the equipment owned by the company that they believe is keeping them from being successful. It just don't make good sense.

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Yes, now that the copper is "valuable", you see the value in it. Congratulations! Maybe you won't let ATT's cable rot any further. You've of course forgotten that you can MAKE MONEY leasing it out.

Anyone can operate a pair of wire cutters, Abe. A chimp could break into your little green boxes.

And I wonder who sabotaged the Covad colo's in NYC back in the early days? Probably Sprint or ATT Local, right?

You should review your co-workers work habits a bit more closely before you spread unfounded FUD about CLEC techs. They're the smart ones, they left.

His name is Larkin, he works for Qwest, and it happened on Feb 26th 2001. I called for phone service, he asked about DSL, I told him I would use my own ISP, he tried to sell me Qwest megabit services, I said no, he said ok and gave me a number if I changed my mind. THEN HE SET ME UP WITH DSL WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. need more on this story?
»QWEST IS NOTHING BUT LYING THIEVES!!!!!!!

be sure to read the follow up from a QWEST tech that said this happens all the time.

I must clarify, I work for SBC. I really can only speak for them. I would hope you only would speak about the ILEC in particular you dealt with, and you may as I didn't read your entire string. I will say however, that by the rep simply asking you if you wanted to sign up for Qwest service is not unethical. The rep signing you up anyway is very bad. I would send a letter to your state utility commission.

I must admit, if you people didn't sound so pissed it wouldn't be so enjoyable to watch the demise of badly managed companies that can't even turn a profit when, in fact, they have been handed every tool needed to do so. I will admit though, I cannot speak about Bell Atlantic. I am with another RBOC. My complaint is with people such as yourself that just wants to blame "the man" for bringing you down. You seem to think that if one RBOC is bad, they all are. If this where the case, then all CLEC's are bad due to the Northpoint fiasco. There are other CLEC's that are about to go under and have told their customers to secure an alternate provider, quickly. Why didn't Northpoint extend that courtesy? If you actually believe this is all due to "the man", I am wasting my time replying to your post. With regard to your CO dig, again I can only speak for my own shop. Safety and quality are the most important tasks in a comm tech's job in my world. In that order. Again, I can only speak about my locations.

Now, as to the "dumb" statement...never mind. I'm curious, do you really think there are CO's that are "rotting". And what exactly is a "crappy" CO? One that doesn't have your name on the front door?

As far as the incumbent having poor service. Come on in, to the right-of-way that is. No one is stopping the CLEC's from laying their own facilities. Why do they want something for nothing? The RBOC does not turn a profit on a une. In fact, the gov has things so screwed up that the ILEC looses money on a customer that only has dial tone and no other vertical services. They (the gov) did that so all those people 20 miles from nowhere could afford tele service, meanwhile the ILEC is out tens of thousands to get a cable to them. Are the CLEC's legally obligated to provide those people service? With their own facility?

Show me where the alarm lines are not tariffed. One of the wire centers I manage still gets plenty of them. What happened was some know-it-all thought they would be smart and order a very low cost dry loop to get broadband service to their customer. What they didn't plan on was that those alarm lines, can be and are on loaded cable. In fact some of these tools would order an alarm line from their little POP across the street from a CO, to customers that where in different wire centers all together. Of course it was the RBOC's fault when the circuit wouldn't work.

So if I wanted to come set up shop in your house, and court your customer, just how much would be fair to charge for the space? I do believe in competition, but not if I as a company have to give up everything I've worked for to have it. Thanks, but no thanks!

said by Abe froman:

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If this where the case, then all CLEC's are bad due to the Northpoint fiasco. There are other CLEC's that are about to go under and have told their customers to secure an alternate provider, quickly. Why didn't Northpoint extend that courtesy?

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Actually not only did Northpoint not tell their customers to secure an alternate provider, but threatened them with legal action if they did seek alternate providers. They wanted to suck out every last penny they could. Yeah, I know they could say they were trying to sell their customer base too, so it was important for their customers to honor their contracts, but then at least give your customers thirty days notice like the majority of the states require before shutting down your network.

Hey Honest Abe,

Who do you work for, Verizon?, SBC?, BellSouth?. Keep regurgitating, maybe your ILEC will clean it up.