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to strosien
Re: Different stories from everyone - help!!Oh - speaking of provisioning NP lines... everyone I speak to says that my NP line and modem cannot be used - at all. My NP line is a separate IDSL line. I understand that different places use different equipment, but...maybe this is a stupid question but it seems strange that I have a line and modem that no one can use whatsoever. All the lights on my modem are green still, but the line is dead... I hadn't heard anything about NP hubs before...
I just want correct information! Dang it... | | SparkChaser Premium Member join:2000-06-06 Downingtown, PA |
Carrie,
I went through the same thing. DSLreports says that NAS, Rhythms and Covad will provide IDSL. Covad says it can, Rhythms says it cant, NAS says it cant. Megapath can through Rhythms, Speakeasy can through Covad. What the????
Everybody wants to use new equipment. They say they cant use the modem, maybe, maybe not. The line, its a pair of copper wires. I think its a bunch of bull that they cant use it. I would push them if I was you.
I decided not to proceed with the IDSL since everybody wanted an equipment charge, an installation charge and a year contract. It was a lot of money for 2 to 3 times the dial-up when I expect cable to get here in the next 6-9 months.
So, I got my second phone line back and will dial until something changes.
Ron | | | |
Ok - is this true???Well, I signed up for IDSL with DSLi (did not fax the contract over yet though) They (DSLi) actually contacted Rhythms and confirmed that Rhythms could service me (though I realize you can't really know 100% until they come and check your location, etc) I was able to get DSLi to waive the year contract and pay month per month, no contract. However, I do have to pay for a new line installation and modem. I wondered about the line installation, since I have the NP IDSL line. I decided to ask about the line itself -- I asked them why they couldn't use my existing IDSL line. I was told that they don't have the "information" needed to configure the line, that my other ISP (Telocity) has it and since they don't have the information to configure my current line, they have to install a new line. Is this correct? Since I did not cancel my service with Telocity - they told me they could no longer service me - couldn't I just get the configuration from Telocity? Or can't DSLi get this information? | | | |
These appear not to be technical problems but rather, POLITICAL problems. Assuming that the current NP circuit meets the new carrier's distance requirements, there is no TECHNICAL reason why it cannot be switched from NP to the new carrier. There is however a POLITICAL problem: The telcos do not want to do it because they want the customers to be forced to use THEIR DSL service (even if they don't offer one yet, but especially if they do.) So they are refusing to allow the lines to be switched EXCEPT in situations where: (1) the state regulatory agency is forcing them to do it; or (2) the ISP is pushing them to do it and threatening legal action if they don't do it; or (3) the line carrier is pushing them to do it. Covad is known for playing footsie with the telcos and their policy is "don't push the telco." If you have an aggressive ISP (like Megapath) who will push and prod, you will get your line switched, assuming it meets the new carrier's criteria. Here in Northern California, PacBell is trying to obstruct line switches but they can't be too overt about it because the PUC is looking over their shoulder, so instead of outright refusing, they are giving the ISP's the "slow roll" (meaning they do it after a lot of pushing and prodding). If everyone who is being subjected to this crap raised a lot of hell, it might help. There are a lot of ways to do this: Call your congress person, call your local regulatory agency (in Calif. its the PUC), call or email the tech issues writers for your local newspaper. When you talk to them also remind them what an atrocity the Tauzin bill is, and how it will make the telcos even more of a de facto monopoly than they already are... | | | |
Now that annoys me - Verizon cannot provide dsl service for me, and they say they doubt they can any time soon!! Yet they are making me pay someone else for a new line because of it? So why is DSLi telling me that my old ISP (Telocity) has the information and they can't get it - how can Verizon interfere with that? I know, this may sound silly but I really don't see why DSLi can't get this "configuration information" and at least see if the line meets the criteria. I checked at one point about switching ISPs - I had a NP line and my ISP was Telocity. DSLi said they could just do an ISP switch with my line...DSLi is also switching all their NP customers over to Rhythms, Covad etc.... if I had made the ISP switch before NP died, they could have transferred me...unless they would have had to possibly still install a new line? I can only get IDSL due to my distance, and if Rhythms can provide me an IDSL line, it seems they should just use the one I have right now. Argh - I don't know - should I call DSLi and try to push them to get this line info and try and use the perfectly good IDSL line I currently have? (well, perfectly good in that it worked fine until NP died) If my line doesn't meet the necessary criteria, fine - I have no problem paying for a new line but it seems absurd to pay for a new line if I can use the line I have! It also seems completely absurd that Verizon would somehow be interfering with this when they CAN'T provide me with DSL and told me themselves that they probably couldn't any time soon! !^!$!%# | | SparkChaser Premium Member join:2000-06-06 Downingtown, PA |
said by carrieg: It also seems completely absurd that Verizon would somehow be interfering with this when they CAN'T provide me with DSL and told me themselves that they probably couldn't any time soon! !^!$!%#
HA! Believe it. and the bit about a new line, as you say, if I may quote you " !^!$!%# ". Two copper wires that were working fine for IDSL last week suddenly don't, BULL! My IDSL modem is sitting here talking to the DSLAM at the Downingtown CO. Every once in awhile it sends a burst of data and goes one it's way. I can't get DSL unless I get new everything, like you. I know all they have to do is take the 2 wires from here and put them there. In needed a good rant! ron | | | |
This is ridiculous. If this is true - that they could really just use my line and are not, it makes me *not* want to go ahead with DSLi. Giving in to something so ridiculous - whether it's DSLI's fault, Verizon's fault... etc... would be just helping to perpetuate the cycle. Again, if for some reason they really *do* need to install a new line, I can understand and I won't complain about paying. It seems that, from the comments so far on this board, that they should be able to use my existing line - or they should at least *check* and see if they can. How can I get a hold of someone who will give me the straight story... or is it pointless? I mean really, what a waste - ripping out a line to put in one when the one there could work??
And let me state again - I am not trying to get something for nothing. I do not have a problem paying for service and equipment... I just don't want to pay for something I do not need!
Yes beeron...&!%!^ | | | carrieg2 |
Ok, Verizon is on my you know what list now.yes I am replying to myself.
I called conectiv regarding DSL... they were very nice, btw.. and the lowest monthly rate! ($59.95 - no contract.. la la la!) Well, I asked they guy on the phone about the existing line thing... and he said that the telocs won't allow them to switch the lines - they (conectiv and other ISPs) get charged and have to install a new line, so they in turn have to charge the customer. (so what was this configuration stuff the dude at DSLi was referring to?) My area uses Verizon - they can't provide access for me and then they want to turn around cause me to spend an extra $150-$200 for a new line when I really don't need one It's not like they are trying to force me to use them - THEY CAN'T PROVIDE SERVICE TO ME!!
Why on EARTH would they do this? I said before that giving in would perpetuate the cycle...but if everyone just gives up and doesn't use these ISPs because the telcos are causing them to pay extra... it's like giving in and allowing the telocs to push out everyone else.
Am I off base here???
Anyway, I think I will take susangg's advice and start raising h*ll. | | Bucko9 join:2001-04-24 Portland, OR |
to susangg6
Re: Ok - is this true???Ug. I hate Telocity right now. I hate Pac Bell, too. While I am happy for those former NP people who managed to get switched to other last mile providers (including Pac Bell), I am furious that there seems to be no good reason that Telocity cannot provide service to me me me.
I have contacted my congresswoman. I have contacted the California PUC. Perhaps I should just give up because I just keep getting more and more frustrated!!! I keep calling Telocity, thinking that they actually are "in the process of provisioning" another provider for me. Unfortunately, they proceed to tell me that, there is no "qualified" carrier. I have yet to get a satisfactory answer as to what constitutes "qualified." Telocity has also told me that Pac Bell denied their request stating that no circuits were available. Of course, this is not a technical problem, it is a competition problem. Pac Bell can, of course (in fact, there sales person bragged to me about the likelihood that "Pac Bell will be here forever" unlike the other DSL providers) service my line. I do not want their crummy contract nor do I want their dynamic IP address. I want them to play fair.
Rant rant rant rave. . . I really liked DSL. | |
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Know what gets me?Verizon refuses to let DSLi or whoever switch over my line and are forcing the install of a new one, right? (for what reason I don't know....) Well gosh, let's say Telocity had been able to switch my carrier from Northpoint to something else... Verizon would not have required them to install a BRAND new line - so why, because Telocity can't seem to find a carrier for me, do *I* have to pay for a new IDSL line to be installed because I have to switch ISPs?! Telocity should have been able to switch me over to Rhythms, since that is what I would use if I go with DSLi but I guess they (Telocity) didn't feel like it. I have had PSN go bankrupt on me, NP die on me, Telocity basically tell me to go jump in a lake, and because of that VERIZON is going to make me pay for a new line instead of using the one I already paid for??!
*fume* | | | System |
I was just flipping through these messages and thought I might be able to add a little insight...there's more to DSL then what you see in your home/office, there are circuits that need to be provisioned in the Telco CO, these circuits remain the property of the company who buys them, ie. Rhythms , Covad, NP...when NP went out of business they did not release most of these circuits, because of this, your new providers are unable to use those existing circuits and are then forced to run a whole new line. So don't blame Verizon (for this, at least) and don't blame your new provider...blame the old one
oh, by the way, if DSL wasn't so cheap, these companies would not have gone out of business and you would all still have service...the old adage never changed..."you (still) get what you pay for." Don't wanna pay? Have fun with your dial-ups... | |
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Well, as I stated before, I have no problem paying for service. I don't recall complaining about DSL fees here - I wanted to get the real story on why my current line can not be switched to another provider. If there is a technical issue that prohibits my current IDSL line from being used for another IDSL connection, and I need a brand new line for the same type of DSL connection, ok. However, the phone call I just completed with Verizon shows that I am still not getting the correct information.
I was told that my current NP IDSL line could not be switched to Rhythms, etc not because of technical issues but because 1) Verizon would not allow them to do so or 2) there was technical information they needed for the line that my old ISP (Telocity) had
Well I just got off the phone with verizon. I was told by someone at Verizon (have his name and everything) that Verizon has nothing to do with my IDSL line - as far as they are concerned I have just one phone line in my house and my separate IDSL line is not in their records. Thus, they cannot prohibit anything being done with the line. This seems a little odd - I mean, the first step in getting the line installed required someone from Verizon coming out...yet they say they have no record of my line and in no way are prohibiting anything being done with it
The Verizon rep then told me the only problem could be that Telocity has information on the line that the other ISP (Conectiv, DSLi, whatever) would need for the line and without the info, they could not use the line. He (verizon rep) then said I should be able to get that information from telocity for whatever ISP I switch to (I didn't cancel my telocity line - they said there was no other available "last mile provider" - well there is, but not one that Telocity can work with)
Now, upon getting that information, if there is a technical issue which prohibits my current IDSL line from working when going through Rhythms, etc, and I need a new line - fine. However, if the line can indeed be used, why should I pay for another line installation when the line I already paid for could work?
Now that I know Verizon is not holding anything up, (or it seems that they aren't...) I'll contact the ISP which told me that and ask them, if i can get the information from Telocity, can they see if they can use my current line. I know other NP customers who had their current line switched over, so I would like to see if the same is possible with my line.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-01 18:37:41] | | | |
to Anon
Actually, you are giving her incorrect legal advice. The circuits do not "belong" to bankrupt Northpoint. Northpoint was "renting" them (or more accurately, they were "renting" the right to USE them. They "belong" to the telephone company (her in Northern Calif, that's PacBell, presumably its Verizon in Carrie's neighborhood). But: Because there are public interest considerations at work here, they do not "belong" to the telco in the sense that the telco can do or not do what they please with them. The telcos are required to make them available to their competitors. Unfortunately, just HOW they are to do that is not clearly spelled out, and many state regulatory agencies have definitely interpreted what they can and can't do, except in a very broad sense. If our elected representatives could somehow be weaned from their addiction to campaign contributions, they might be prevailed upon to write regulations that clearly spell it out. Failing that, some state utility regulators have shown willingness to interpret the vague regulations embodied in the telecommunications act of 1996 so as to REQUIRE the telco to make the circuit available. You may want to search this board to see if there are any postings about what your state regulatory agency (in Calif its the PUC) has done, if anything. Go to your state PUC's web site (if they have one) and see what is there. What can you do? I recommend getting the FAX numbers of the telco (Verizon) and your ISP and sending FAXES to them confirming what you have been told on the telephone, with copies to your PUC. Be sure to get the circuit number (all circuits have numbers, or so I am told) from your ISP. Put the circuit number in your correspondence. Then call your PUC consumer intake line and insist on speaking with a complaint rep...if you can't figure it out from the web site, ask the PUC consumer rep how an ordinary consumer can file a simple complaint. Then file it! And be sure to call your local newspaper, find out who does the technology beat. Reporters are always looking for human interest stories about things technical. If you can find a good investigative reporter, he or she can do some of the leg work for you. I will bet that your circuit suddenly becomes available to be switched! You will have been designated a trouble maker and they will want you to go away. The public relations office for Verizon will instruct the techs to do whatever is necessary to make that happen (unless they are stupider than I think they are....) | | | |
Yet another update...I just want answers, that's all! Ok, so I called Telocity (see my post above, and the post above that...) regarding the information for my line. Telocity says they do not have that info - NP had it, and now they have no idea where the info would be (?) The telocity rep also stated that for every NP customer they switched, they had to build a new line... I asked if they did any hot cuts and he said no. Am I getting correct info here? I'm not putting blame on any party at the moment - I am now at the point where I would just like the full story! So Telocity didn't do any hot cuts and has no circuit ID info for my line at all - is this correct? I stated that other ISPs did CLEC to CLEC transfers, so where did they get the needed info? He said he didn't know? Does this have to do with my line being an IDSL line and not being handled by Verizon - as in, Verizon would usually have the needed technical info but since my line didn't wasn't handled by Verizon at all (or so Verizon tells me) that NP had it and now that NP is gone there is no way to obtain this info? Hey - if i am totally wrong about some of my assumptions, please people, set me straight!  I really just want accurate information and so far, it just seems like something isn't sitting right - NP released the lines, yet I can't get my circuit ID and whatever information other ISPs say they require? CAN SOMEONE JUST EXPLAIN THIS TO ME CLEARLY? please? pretty please?  | | | carrieg2 |
to susangg6
Re: Know what gets me?Thank you susangg for this information..however, you said "Be sure to get the circuit number (all circuits have numbers, or so I am told) from your ISP" - Telocity just told me they do not have the circuit ID - NP had it, and basically, they have no idea how i would get that info. You are right - Verizon is my telephone company and they told me today that they really have nothing to do with my line! (see my other posts  ) So who the heck DOES have info on my line!? Verizon doesn't, Telocity doesn't, NP did - argh! No one has yet given me any reason that my current IDSL line cannot be used except that 1)Verizon is hogging it or 2)telocity is hiding my technical info. Both Verizon and Telocity say "Gee... we aren't doing that" At this point, paying for a new IDSL line to be installed is no big deal - sure I'd like to save the $$ but it's not going to break my bank account, but when things don't seem to make sense I want to find out the answer! | | | |
Carrie: Your ISP either knows the circuit number or can easily get it. Megapath had no trouble getting mine. The thing, is they have to ASK for it. Apparently Telocity does not go to bat for its customers. My suggestion is that you go to Telocity's "investor info" page on its web site and get the fax numbers of some high ranking honchos and start bugging them. Be sure to copy your state PUC (or whatever they call it down there on all these faxes and stuff.) Or you could JUST SHOW UP at your local telco office with a tape recorder (or better yet, your local reporter!!) and have them tell you they can't find your circuit number FOR THE CAMERA. Never underestimate the power of the press. You might want to see if there's a utility reform group in your area (in Calif. we have one called "TURN") and enlist their aid. Maybe they will file a class complaint or whatever legal remedy your PUC allows. The other option is (depending on your reason for having DSL and your budget) is to forget Telocity and cough up enough money for a SOHO account with Megapath. They are better at pushing the telcos to do their job. | | Kibbles Premium Member join:1999-07-31 Mission Viejo, CA |
Kibbles
Premium Member
2001-May-2 2:44 am
said by susangg:
The other option is (depending on your reason for having DSL and your budget) is to forget Telocity and cough up enough money for a SOHO account with Megapath. They are better at pushing the telcos to do their job.
Not lately...since April 20 no one knows why my NP line ( dead since March 20 ) can`t be used.I like the idea of contacting the PUC just in case the main problem is with my TELCO. | | | |
to carrieg2
Carrie, Telocity should have the circuit ID number. It sounds like they are just BSing you. If you know where the pair for the IDSL comes to your house then look for a tag. The ID number might be on the tag. It was there on my tag and some other line info. | |
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My fun IDSL lineRegarding Telocity not having my circuit info....this is straight from a letter NP sent to the FCC:
"During the course of the week, starting Friday, March 23, 2001, NorthPoint also provided to its ISPs all company proprietary information 3 regarding Circuit IDs of subscribers and blanket letters of authorization entitling those ISPs to begin to migrate customers off of the NorthPoint network with the full consent and approval of the company."
So why doesn't Telocity have this info? ------- Well, I called Telocity and the person I spoke to seemed very nice - she stated that Telocity should have the curcuit ID etc but that the info was essentially useless to another ISP. She suggested I get the specific information needed and call Telocity back and go from there. Guess I'll do that --------
Anyway.... Hi all - I really appreciate this input....
susangg - well, the reason I want/need DSL is because I work for a web development company and I do work from home at times. My company doesn't offer DSL - I can get a T-1 or a 56k frame Relay connection through my company, but even with them charging me just cost, it's still extremely expensive - even the 56k frame relay. Cable is available all around me, but not in my particular neighborhood (thanks again to AT&T..)
So basically, DSL is my only real option. As for getting a SOHO account with Megapath, I could spend the money right now and get another IDSL line through DSLi, Conectiv... but they want to install a new line. If they *need* to install a new line due to technical issues - fine! I'll pay the money needed for that, but I would like to know why they cannot use my current IDSL line and so far, no one has provided me with an answer to this question. Telocity can no longer provide IDSL service to me since NP died, so in essence, I have given up on Telocity.
Question: Verizon says they have nothing to do with my IDSL line - could this be accurate? Anyway, if they have nothing to do with my line .... I don't think showing up at the Telco office would help if they claim they aren't involved with my line - but how is this possible? I realize Verizon cannot provide IDSL lines but it seems that they would be involved on some level - Verizon coming out to my location was the first step in setting up the line in the first place.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-02 12:01:58] | | SparkChaser Premium Member join:2000-06-06 Downingtown, PA |
said by carrieg: Question: Verizon says they have nothing to do with my IDSL line - could this be accurate?
It's surprising Verizon ever sees daylight from where they have their head! As you probably remember I also had IDSL with NP. (BTW-Green light still on) Verizon put the wires in. I talked to the Verizon tech as he was connecting it. I watched him check the main cable to get the right pair. It's their copper. NP paid them to use Verizon copper. Once it's at the CO then Covad or whoever connects it to their equipment. I'm letting you do all of up front work before I attempt DSL again. Soon, you'll be able to rent yourself out as a DSL consultant;) Keep fighting! Ron | | | |
said by beeron: As you probably remember I also had IDSL with NP. (BTW-Green light still on) Verizon put the wires in. I talked to the Verizon tech as he was connecting it. I watched him check the main cable to get the right pair. It's their copper. NP paid them to use Verizon copper. Once it's at the CO then Covad or whoever connects it to their equipment.
Perhaps then when the Verizon rep stated that they had nothing to do with the IDSL line, they mean that once it was set up, it was out of their hands? Is it usual for them not to have any record of the line going into my house? Anyway, I just got off the phone with Conectiv - they stated that Verizon prohibits them from doing hot cuts, period. The Conectiv rep states that she had a letter right in front of her telling her that they (Conectiv) could NOT do hot cuts. Looks like I have to call Verizon back and find out, once again, why I am getting different stories. Or maybe it's limited to Conectiv - who the heck knows - argh! Oh my GOODNESS this is frustrating!!! | | carrieg2
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Oh FORGET IT!Called Verizon - now they say "well if that is what Conectiv says then that's probably in their contract." huh? The person at Verizon yesterday was just as insistent as the person at Conectiv today : Verizon: "we are in no way prohibiting hot cuts on your line -we aren't involved with that line so we can't keep you from having something like that done" Conectiv: "I have a letter right here from verizon prohibiting this" Who the heck even owns my line at this point!?!? Why can't I just get a straight answer?? IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO CAN HELP? I should just say forget and pay for a brand new line to be installed - but that won't satisfy my curiosity Added: Just looked back at something susangg said regarding the phone company owning the line but not necessarily being able to prohibit certain things being done on the line. It seems, I guess, that is what Verizon is doing in the Conectiv case? So Verizon technically owns my line... I am getting confused. Anyone want to provide a flowchart or something? I also emailed DSLi and asked what technical info they needed for my line (see my post waaaay in the beginning of this thread I am totally hogging  ) since Telocity said they would provide the info. Let's see what happens... dsli didnt say anything about Verizon not allowing hot cuts... [text was edited by author 2001-05-02 15:37:39] | | GarageJoeU2 Rocks join:2001-03-21 Scottsdale, AZ |
Okay I will try to help you out but I am not sure we can get anywhere. I guess the real reason I am writing this is because I have the background with both the ILEC's and CLEC's in knowing procedures in both companies. First of all the ILEC has record of EVERY line that is in use whether its by the ILEC or CLEC. They have to so that the line (the copper pr that is connected at several differnt junction boxes between the CO and your DMARC) isnt used for POTS service or another DSL service to another location. Also the line technically is OWNED by the ILECs the line is then LEASED to the CLECs for use. What you need to do is this in my humble opinion: First get the circuit ID number, the ILEC has this. THis is the one of several ways for them to identify your circuit and the status of it (whether its in use by an ilec who has ownership, pending facilities, installed etc.) The IlECs also were given the LOA according to an FCC filing showing that they have the authorization to do cuts if the ISP shows the authorization. (this just allows the ILEC to be on the same page as the CLEC's and ISP's that are doing cutovers) The CLEC's dont have the database on others circuits and usually are only able to get it from your former CLEC or ISP. The ILEC however has ATLEAST your circuit ID number. If you need any information that is where i would start. They can access these records by addresss, name, and telephone number, (what you need to ask is for all the circuits that are connected to your address.) If you need any other questions answered as far as getting information from the ILEC is concerned, please dont hesitate to reply. I hope this information helps. | | | |
Conectiv, Rhythms, Verizon oh my! ;)I don't mean to make these posts full length novels. They just come out that way. Thanks again to all who are providing input  I address some specific people below... Here is where I am now: This afternoon: A friend of mine knows someone at Network Access Solutions, and suggested I contact him. NAS can provide me with service, though they are more business oriented so the prices are high for residential users like me ($200/month for IDSL, $400 modem..) - HOWEVER, he was able to answer some of my questions, and confirm what some of you all have been saying here. (for those needing business DSL lines, you might want to look into NAS - NO, I do not work for them! I was just very pleased with their customer service - the person I spoke to answered my questions and is very willing to work with people on pricing, etc.) Anyway, I asked about hot cuts and such. He stated that they could absolutely do a hot cut, and they have done this for other NP customers. Since I have an existing IDSL line, he stated that there is no need to install a new line. All that was really needed was the circuit ID which, as other people here in this thread suggested, should be on a tag where the pair comes into my house. Now, Telocity told me the circuit ID would do me no good, since they install a new circuit, even with hot cuts. I found the same info in this DSLR forum, regarding using a new circuit when doing a hot cut: (» Northpoint DSL went down in Brooklyn 5/1) *Not* needing my circuit ID/number, though, doesn't coincide with what the guy at NAS said and what people here on DSLR and are saying, so I assume I do need the circuit ID. I am guessing that even though they install a new circuit in a hot cut, they would still need the old circuit ID. (maybe?) ANYWAY, I then called Telocity back and asked for the circuit ID - they gave it to me this time. They said they *assumed* this number was the circuit ID. I got home a little while ago and went to check for the tag where the pair enters my townhouse to see if the numbers there matched the numbers telocity gave me....well, I feel rather stupid. I couldn't find a tag, but I'll check again in daylight (was out in the dark with a flashlight...) Between the lack of light, the numerous wires (I live in a building with four townhouses and all the wires for each townhouse are in the same spot) and, well, bugs and debris (ick) around everything, I wasn't able to find any tag, and it was very difficult to actually see which line was mine (don't laugh at me! I hear you all laughing! :P) So either there is no tag on my line, the tag is hard to find, or I'm a moron. I'll check again in the morning. So it does seem that a hot cut is possible barring technical issues. I called DSLi to see if they could indeed use my existing line if I have the circuit number, etc but they told me I had to call tomorrow when the sales reps were in. Anyone know how cooperative Rhythms is with things like this? (since that is who DSLi would be using for my line) GarageJoe - your info was helpful. So basically, when Verizon said they had no record of my IDSL line at my location, they didn't know what they were talking about? That's annoying! I guess that answers my earlier question to susangg about going to the telco and demanding the circuit number - I asked what good that would do if they don't have that info but it seems that they *do* and have that info and for whatever reason, told me differently. Sheesh - is that strange or what?! So Ok - my old CLEC (NP) won't have the circuit ID because they don't exist  Verizon should have it - perhaps I should call them again and see what they say. Telocity first told me they had no such thing, but upon calling back, the did have the info. Another ques: what is this deal with Conectiv then - saying Verizon is prohibiting hot cuts? I still can't figure that one out. I guess the ILECs have the authorization to do hot cuts but they can prohibit them if they choose? (that seems to be what susangg was saying in another post too....) Yet another ques: Looking at this distance charts on DSLR, it states that Rhythms (the CLEC I would use if i went with DSLi - and yes, I know they may go the same way as NP  which is why I have been checking out Conectiv.) can provide 208SDSL up to 19000 ft from the CO. I am 18000 ft - I will have to ask DSLi tomorrow why I am unable to get that type of SDSL? Oh and speaking of Rhythms (I am just *full* of questions - sorry everyone, I just really like to get full information on a situation!) I saw while looking at this thread (» DSLi's iDSL Why not 144?) regarding some Rhythms IDSL customers getting 128kbps instead of 144kbps. Someone stated that "if you are in a GTE/Verizon area, they won't allow the CLEC to use the 'D' channel (16k) of the ISDN line they're providing to the CLEC so you are limited to 128k speeds in Verizon territory." That seems odd because when I am in Verizon territory and when I had my IDSL line through NP, my speeds were in the 130kbps range, so they must have been using the D channel. I do a lot of work from home, including uploading so I really don't want to wind up with a 128 IDSL line when I can get 144...I am surprised that Rhythms is even taking customers since I read in a few places that they weren't taking new customers? Or is that in just some areas? Telocity, for whatever reason, was unable to move me to Rhythms. Sighs: I'm glad the Verizon techs were able to help you out... of course your response has generated more questions  I see what you're saying about the CLEC not wanting to bother with a hot cut...what I am still curious about is, that if ILECs like Verizon would *rather* do hot cuts, as you suggested, I wonder why Connectiv is saying that they would like to do a hot cut but Verizon won't let them? The person I spoke with today at Conectiv stated flatly that she had a letter right in front of her from Verizon stating that they must install new lines - no hot cuts! I haven't yet received what I consider a definitive answer from Verizon on the Conectiv issue. The Conectiv situation seems to be the exact opposite of exact what you have experienced - unless Conectiv doesn't really want to do hot cuts and is blaming Verizon? I swear I'll get to the bottom of this somehow! And susangg - I haven't forgotten your suggestion about contacting my state regulatory agency... Ok, well, I am sure I'll have new info tomorrow to post  Maybe I'll even have more answers! (ha ha ha ha!) Thanks again to all who have provided input... I hope somehow, all my yacking about this on DSLR has provided someone out there with some helpful info. (Oh - and the covad site now says I qualify for dsl - when I started this thread (which I am totally hogging  ) I was saying that some places said I could use Covad, yet the Covad site said I couldn't....well now the Covad web site says I qualify. Weird.) | | carrieg2
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to GarageJoe
Re: Oh FORGET IT!I have a massive post addressing a lot of items and people's suggestions here, ready to post... but it triggered something that requires it to be looked at by the moderators first (not sure what...) before it gets posted here. Just FYI...hopefully it will show up soon Edit - ah, I see i has been added, above  | | | carrieg2 |
Short recap and new infoYeah, me again... I have been trying to get a straight answer from someone as to WHY no one can switch my current Northpoint IDSL line (functional in that it works fine but Northpoint no longer exists so it doesn't "go anywhere) From what I have now found out, it seems that many cases, the CLEC doesnt want to do the hot cut (which is what sighs suggested) Network Access Solutions said they could indeed do a hot cut on my line. I am not going with NAS because their prices are just too high for a residential person like me, but from what I know of them, theyre excellent for those who need business lines. To do a hot cut I was told they would need the circuit ID. Since NAS is a LEC, I assume they have just chosen to do hot cuts
.. When I called Conectiv about just transferring my line, they said Verizon is prohibiting them from doing that and they had to install a new one. I called Verizon and they said they were not, so I called Conectiv back an they insisted they had a letter right there, stating that they could not do that as per Verizon. Ok - so I called DSLi back and asked again why they could not do a hot cut on my line. The first time I asked they told me there was "info" on my line that my old ISP had (Telocity) which they needed and they didn't have it so they couldn't use my current line. After getting a million stories on that (again, see my other posts...) I got the circuit ID and such from Telocity....called DSLi back today. This time the guy said they cold not do a hot cut because the CLEC they use (Rhythms) would not allow them to do it for new customers - they switched current DSLi customers who were stranded by Northpoint, but would not do hot cuts for new customers - a new line needed to be installed. So what I gather is that Rhythms, chooses not to do hot cuts and NAS chooses to do them. I am not sure why Conectiv says they are prohibited from Verizon to do hot cuts.... OK! I then found out that if I use DSLi as my ISP with Rhythms as my CLEC for a 144 IDSL line, it would be $149 line installation and $79.95/month. I can use my current IDSL modem. HOWEVER, Rhythms has some technology which allows them to provide 384/384 SDSL to people under 19000 ft from the CO - I am 18000. If I went with SDSL via DSLi and Rhythms, it would be a $149 line installation charge, $89.95/month and $169 for the modem. They have to check my line before guaranteeing that I could get SDSL - if they check and I can't get the SDSL, I wouldn't be held to anything - I would then have the option of signing up for the IDSL service. What do people think does it make sense that many CLECs are perhaps just deciding not to do line transfers (hot cuts, whatever
) and some are willing? And the question of the day! Should go for the 384 SDSL and pay 10 dollars more per month and an extra $169 for the modem, or sick with 144 and save the $$? Input is appreciated  At this point, I guess I will just go with one of the DSLi packages (they said I dont have to sign a contract..) | | GarageJoeU2 Rocks join:2001-03-21 Scottsdale, AZ |
LOL, well after along run around I would say congrats that you are finally getting to the bottom of your problem. First of all I would try to go with the SDSL service, its faster and better for only 10 more a month I believe its worth it. However I must admit I dont believe that verizon will do it for you for I believe there specs are that you are to far away. If that is true, they wont be able to supply you with a SDSL line. But then again its worth a shot you have nothing to lose. Again I hope it all works out for you for the best. | | | |
Hiya, Thanks...well, the $10 more a month isn't a big deal (I can easily economize enough to save $10 a month elsewhere) but I have to get a new modem which is $169. (no contract though) I went ahead and signed up for SDSL service with DSLi/Rhythms. As for the distance, I was surprised also that I could get something besides IDSL, but the rep at DSLi said that Rhythms has some technology which allows this speed at my distance from the CO. ?? *shrug* I guess I'll see - if they indeed find out I can't get the SDSL service, I'll just go back to my standard IDSL service, most likely with DSLi and Rhythms. I realize Rhythms is in...not very good shape and could go the same way as Northpoint.... in which case if DSLi then has to switch me to another LEC (assuming one is available and it's not another Telocity situation) I will be downgraded to IDSL, and I guess I'll have a SDSL modem I can't use. I can't really complain about paying for line installation and a modem though - when I signed up for Northpoint/PSN I paid *no* modem or installation charge because of a rebate. All that was refunded *and* I got a digital camera. Great deal yes - but of course those great deals probably helped lead to Northpoint's demise... and the $39.95/month via PSN - well PSN went belly up too! I guess you get what you pay for....So I guess technically, any way you look at it, I got a free IDSL modem from Northpoint  I guess I'll assume it is easier/cheaper for Rhythms to install a new line rather than use my existing one (if I had gone with the IDSL service) so I guess for now, I will have to assume that the whole "hot cut" question revolves around whether the CLEC wants to do them or not. Hey, if anyone else gets additional info on that or anything else, I'd like to hear it. Just because I broke down and finally handed over my credit card for dsl service doesn't mean I am no longer curious about these issues. Me screaming yesterday morning as I tried to upload some large files for a client prior to going into the office, and watching them take an hour to do, and then having my dial-up connection bomb out in the middle helped push me to the "hand over credit card" stage. People have been saying that the ILECs are going to push everyone else out of the DSL market. Where does that leave people like me, who can't get service through them? And you know, I never did find my circuit ID tag. Ah well. | | hufnagel join:2001-03-24 Berkeley Heights, NJ |
to carrieg2
Re: My fun IDSL lineOn 03/08/2001 Telocity sent a NorthPoint install tech out to my place to test and set up the line. Had the PFU (more on this later) do the connect test right at my phone box (much to his amazement.) Then he did something that I'll love until the day I die... he TAGGED THE LINE WITH IT'S PON# !!!!!!  Just let someone tell me they don't know the circuit number!  And to think I almost threw the tag out! Think I'll GLUE it to the wire in a minute. FYI: PFU == pimply faced youth (don't think the kid was old enough to SHAVE, much less drive.) | |
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