Security Product Vendors → A note to Symantec Reps

It seems that the top people are from IBM (and fairly recently); that explains just about everything -- at least as far as I am concerned.

said by JTM1051:

---

Crystal,

Any replies from Symantec yet?

---

Calls that I made to Symantec HQs have been returned in a timely manner. However, it should be noted that I am only questioning the difficulty end-users encounter when attempting to reach tech support for quick, and user-friendly solutions to their problems.

Large corporations such as Symantec can not reasonably be expected to make changes overnight, but a little diplomacy can go a long way. Since I have not encountered the usual array of problems end-users in this forum have experienced, I can afford a diplomatic approach.

Symantec Global Headquarters

Yeah...guess we should all invest. Looks like folks here who are having so many problems with Symantec products that they are considering leaving them or have already done so are a small minority of users.

Business Booms At Symantec Jan. 21, 2004
"But it was the company's consumer software that grew the most--55% year over year. Symantec's consumer sales represent 49% of the company's total revenue".

»www.informationweek.com/ ··· 17500470

Information for customers who have downloaded LiveUpdate 2.0
Automatic LiveUpdate may be disabled after updating to LiveUpdate 2.0

Situation:
When users of Symantec's Windows-based consumer products run LiveUpdate manually to install LiveUpdate 2.0 and then do not restart their system upon completion of the installation, the product's Automatic LiveUpdate component is disabled.

Document ID:2004012113234513
Last Modified:01/22/2004

--
Security Forum FAQs...-......-...Starfire "5 in 4"

said by Mele20:

---

. . . . Looks like folks here who are having so many problems with Symantec products that they are considering leaving them or have already done so are a small minority of users.

---

That statement, of course, begs the issue of how many NAV/NIS/NPF users actually know whether they have a problem or not. When my NAV went down sometime in the last two weeks there was absolutely nothing that made it obvious that the product was no longer working. System scans and e-mail scans were still nominally functional -- but, in reality -- absolutely no scans were being made. And that was the same problem that I encountered with NIS 2002 -- the firewall quit working but there was absolutely no indication of this fact that the average end-user would be likely to pick up on.

Indeed, part of my concern (and I'm a long-time NAV/NIS/NSW user) is precisely related to this issue -- when the product becomes non-functional, there is absolutely no readily observable indication of this fact. I only found out because I knew what to look for -- but even I don't do it every 4 hours.

quote:

---

Business Booms At Symantec Jan. 21, 2004
"But it was the company's consumer software that grew the most--55% year over year. Symantec's consumer sales represent 49% of the company's total revenue".

---

I've already addressed just how that happened in a thread over in the Security Forum.

»NIS reinstall problem. No support, no nothing!
»NIS killing outlook
»Please Recommend An Alt 2 NAV.
»HELP!!! Nav 2004 problem...
»NAV 2002 problems..answers much appreciated
»Need name of NIS 2004 download setup file
»live update settings question
»NIS 2004
»Symantec Live Reg Update
--
Symantec Global Headquarters
--

said by jvmorris:

---

That statement, of course, begs the issue of how many NAV/NIS/NPF users actually know whether they have a problem or not. When my NAV went down sometime in the last two weeks there was absolutely nothing that made it obvious that the product was no longer working. System scans and e-mail scans were still nominally functional -- but, in reality -- absolutely no scans were being made. And that was the same problem that I encountered with NIS 2002 -- the firewall quit working but there was absolutely no indication of this fact that the average end-user would be likely to pick up on.

---

Well, how's this for a confirmation you're right, J.V... ?
I just ran a scan using AVG on a computer that had NAV 2003, that looked updated, (I personally checked it, and YES, of course i know what I am doing...LOL) and it looked like auto protect was on.. So... I uninstall NAV Off a friend's computer, I install Avast! and ...what do you know? The computer is infected with the blaster worm... I ran an online scan with Panda that confirmed it...so I let Avast do it's job...

That's too bad... really.. How can I defend NAV if this happened.. The def's were current and the subscription renewed..I will tell my co worker to contact Symantec, but what's the point...... I am at a loss for words... I also have to say that I looked at the quarantee log, she had the last virus on her system quaranteed about 1 month ago.. Somewhere after that I GUESS, and I only guess, NAV wasn't working.. The only thing I should have done, mind you, was test the AV for detection, using eicar, but I forgot and was in a hurry...

said by StraitShoot:

---

. . . Well, how's this for a confirmation you're right, J.V... ?
I just ran a scan using AVG on a computer that had NAV 2003, that looked updated, (I personally checked it, and YES, of course i know what I am doing...LOL) and it looked like auto protect was on.. So... I uninstall NAV Off a friend's computer, I install Avast! and ...what do you know? The computer is infected with the blaster worm... I ran an online scan with Panda that confirmed it...so I let Avast do it's job...

That's too bad... really.. How can I defend NAV if this happened.. Somewhere after that I GUESS, and I only guess, NAV wasn't working..

---

This may seem a rather odd response, Jim, but I really wish someone would tell me I'd screwed up when I made that comment! (Well, presumably someone who knew what they were talking about.)

Scary, isn't it?

»NIS 2003 problems
»Disable XP Firewall if running NIS ?
»NIS 2004- Am I doing this right?
»Problem re-installing NIS 2003
»NIS reporting own IP as hacking attempt??
»NAV02 still waiting 4 fix..any advice?Here's mine
»NAV Problems and ? about working correctly
»Norton AV 2003 stalls in Outlook Express
»NAV03 LiveUpdate shows yet another LiveReg !?
»Set NAVCE to run AutoLU at Windows Startup?
»NAV 1-21-04 defs causing XP reboots - why?
»Schedule updates more often
»One Reason Why W32.Mydoom@MM Is Spreading?!
»You're not gonna believe this!! NAV 2002

»NIS subscription "expired"
»/forum ··· start=20
»? about symantec tech service
»Norton antivirus 2003
»Norton reviews??
»NAV fixes infected files Need I do anything else
»Question, Panda or Norton's...
»Norton AV 2003? Still?
»Your opinion: Norton client fw or ZA4 pro?
»Should I even think of reinstalling NAV 2004 or...
»iamapp.exe is awol in NIS03
» Problem with norton internet security 2004 on LAN
»NIS detects .DOCs as scripts
»Check for publishers certificate revocation
»Home User Personal Firewall & Anti-Virus Questions
»Norton AV Intelligent Updates
»NAV 2003: LiveReg Error (LU1847)
»Norton subscription service?

Symantec Global Headquarters

»Need NIS 2003 help - won't allow warning message
»How to Kill NAV Subscription Reminder?
»NAV getting a bit too nosey -- Hacktool
»Need NIS 2003 help - won't allow warning message
»Problem re-installing NIS 2003
»[Help] Norton Internet Security Fails to Load
»[Help] How to get rid of NAV 2002?
»NAV2004 finds scon.exe, a hacktool?
»Norton Utilities?
»[Help] Norton System Works / Anti Virus
»[Help] Norton's LiveUpdate files 404 on their website?
»[Help] Norton's LiveUpdate files 404 on their website?
»Nav 2003 won't "update" virus Def's
»Entering Subscription Key into Norton Firewall
»Norton System Works Alternatives?
»Norton Internet Security 2004 Professional
»Nav 2003 and rar files

Symantec Global Headquarters

»Norton AV
»Symantec Proxy?
»Can't delete the protected files in Norton Recycle
»Screw You Symantec
»NAV taskbar email protection icon...new?
»download.trojan... norton can't find it anymore...
»[Help] Norton System Work's (Sux's)!
»[Help] Norton IS 2004
»Symantec LiveUpdate's Update!
»NIS2003 Log Entry-Need Help
»[XP] Can not start any programs
»Norton Ghost 2002 assistance needed
»True Image 7.0 Rocks/Ghost 2003 Sucks
»Help! My Doom has infected My Computer!!
»Another liveupdate problem
»How do I stop NAV's own popups?!
»Can't Uninstall NAV 2002
»Can i get Norton Corp and AVG in one machine?
»Mydoom & Norton
»Norton Firewall 2002 Settings For A Web Server
»Norton Ghost 2003 Oddities

Symantec Global Headquarters

»LU Fix didn't fix LiveUpdate
»[Help] NSW2003 removal help - 98se
»norton corporate 8.0 won't update virus definition
»Need info on Norton antivirus "Is it legal to"
»Norton AV Corp found Mydoom and quaranteend
»Good News: Lookie What Norton Has Added
»Norton Sysyem Works 2004 Slowing Down Computer?
»Ghost "Nightmare"
»Is 2/10 MS Security Update working for everyone?
»NIS 2004 Live Update Problem
»Help before I scream!!
»cutnmake
»Strange NIS Alert on PCWorld.com

Symantec Global Headquarters

.
This one deserves special mention, as suggested by antdude in the thread:

»LiveUpdate for NAV2002 problem fixed

»NIV shite
»Norton Firewall 2002 Slows My Download Speeds
»NIS 2004 Pro slows down internet connection speed?
»Help!
»Upgraded to Norton Security 2004 & am Happy I Did
»Updating Live Update
»NIS automatic rules creation ok?
»[scam] Scam - Lookalike Anti-virus not from Norton

Symantec Global Headquarters

»Cannot enable autoupdate in NAV
»Help me choose: NAV 2003/2004 or McAfee 8?
»Problems with Norton 2004 & Wireless
»NAV2003 Subscription Renewal
»Transfer NIS/NAV subscription info to new machine?
»live365 and NIS
»Help me neuter NIS 2004, it's driving me NUTS!!!
»Norton Intrusion alert Question
»NAV 2002 or OE problem
»Adware.IEPlugin. How to defend? Not NAV 4 sure :-(

Symantec Global Headquarters

»How do I transfer Norton Sub. service to new comp.
»Nortons is back to pushing upgrades!
»What the hell is NAV 200X do and not do?
»Norton AntiVirus 2004 does not work
»If Norton 2004 detects Trojans, then....
»Problem with NPF 2004 Program Scan
»help new user of norton 2004
»HELP.....HELP.....and more HELP for the Neophyte
»Delete Norton
»NSW 2003 Virus Defs: LU6004 error now fixed.
»Symantec NIS 2003 Pro - Stopped Autoupdating
»Help me neuter NIS 2004, it's driving me NUTS!!!
»[XP Pro] NSW 2004 '1 button checkup' on limited account
»Symantec Antivirus not updating...
»[Help] NAV2K3 Any suggestions before deciding to format?

Symantec Global Headquarters

»NIS reporting own IP as hacking attempt??
»live365 and NIS
»NIS 2004 Logs
»Intrusion Deception System?
»NIS detects .DOCs as scripts
»NIS subscription "expired"
»NIS 2004- Am I doing this right?
»NIS killing outlook
»NIS 2004 - installation issues
»Need name of NIS 2004 download setup file
»NIS not working, but cannot get rid of one item
»NIS Catalog File; not available?
»NIS Pro 2003 after clean install
»Can't renew NAV 2004 subscription
»NAV Free!!!
»NAV 2002 or OE problem
»nav 2004 and thunderbird
»Cannot enable autoupdate in NAV
»NAV taskbar email protection icon...new?
»NAV getting a bit too nosey -- Hacktool
»Nav 2003 and rar files
»NAV email proxy broken
»NAV fixes infected files Need I do anything else

Symantec Global Headquarters

There are a number of threads in the Users Security Forum complaining about NAV not updating properly (no news here).

This thread is where the FIX was first posted:
»LiveUpdate for NAV2002 problem fixed

In the last 24 hours, I have received four automatic Live Updates from Symantec. After each update is complete go into:

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\VirusDefs >> and DELETE the BinHub folder.

This is NOT how it should be working, but until Symantec comes up with something better, this simple FIX does in fact work.

Yes, it's an annoyance to have to delete a folder after each subsequent update, but the way the definitions have been coming in one after another, it may be a wise thing to do.

Symantec Global Headquarters

»[Serious] NAV disabled?
»NAV 2003 LiveUpdate troubles
»Symantec NetDetect, need it or not?
»Norton Internet Security Pro VS. ZONE ALARM PRO 4
»Nortons Av2003 live update
»Does NAV mean Norton and Valium?
»[Help] NAV2K3 Any suggestions before deciding to format?
»got attachment this morning, Norton didn't detect
»NAV has been doing *daily* virus updates this week
»Symantec network proxy might finally be fixed
»Norton Internet Security 2004 PRO Problems!!
»Overkill or not?
»Norton Personal Firewall 2004 and Sygate Pro 5.5
»Which NAV Intelligent Update?
»Question about Bagel or Netsky
»who's got LiveUpdate for 3/04/2004?
»NPF features compared to other firewalls...

Symantec Global Headquarters

I was staunch supporter of Norton, bought the very first product out the door (Canadian) as well. Often people ask what software to buy, I now tell people to avoid Symantec-Norton products; now I'm in the Biz of training, support and software/hardware evaluations and can safely state that Norton has lost at least 180 sales in the last two months!

The product has become retrograde with updates, removing rather than improving functionality. To date the only aspect of Norton that has any value is Ghost.

said by Kiwi:

---

I was staunch supporter of Norton, bought the very first product out the door (Canadian) as well. Often people ask what software to buy, I now tell people to avoid Symantec-Norton products; now I'm in the Biz of training, support and software/hardware evaluations and can safely state that Norton has lost at least 180 sales in the last two months!

The product has become retrograde with updates, removing rather than improving functionality. To date the only aspect of Norton that has any value is Ghost.

---

I have returned to being vehemetly Anti Norton.. It seems like everytime I try to trust this company they go out of their way to make me distrust and dislike them, LOL.. A Large Number of problems with computers in the office were with Liveupdate, and conflicts, most of them being Norton conflicting with itself... (no kidding).. Maybe THAT's the best way to unseat #1., a small, growing number of "Norton Rebels", quietly going about their daily tasks, teaching others that "Yes, Virginia, there really are other Antivirus Products out there..".. LOL...

In the past two weeks I've upgraded 4 computers from NAV 2002 because they had started randomly crashing at boot time -- NAVAPW32 caused an exception in KERNEL32. This started happening after a recent LiveUpdate. It is intermittent, but occured regularly on 4 Win9x machines.

I threw away a total of 13 months paid-up virus definition updates in the process.

Since NAV 2002 is no longer supported, there won't be any fixes for this. It is interesting that this started occurring about the same time as Symantec started advising customers that these systems had "CRITICAL ISSUES" and that we should upgrade to the latest NAV 2004.

Yet, as far as I know, Symantec is still selling virus defintion subscription renewals for NAV 2002... Hmmm....

One of those machines is now testing AVG. We'll see how that goes...

»http proxy , http port??
»Norton AVF Exchange not stopping some viruses
»"Symantec Integrator" wants to access internet???
»[Help] Norton not working at all
»LU error
»NAV 2002 flaw
»Don't understand Norton 2004
»Norton Internet Security 2004 Popup blocker..
»Just upgraded to Nortons 2004!
»new NIS 2004 blocks internet even if turned off
»NIS 2003 Pro - Stopped Autoupdating
»Norton and MSN email
»NAV? It takes awhile to do a full-scan.
»ZAP and Norton AV EMail Scanners
»No more NAV 2004- I now haveTrend Micro PC-cillin
»Norton does it work???
»NIS 2004 troubles in Paradice
»Would AVG suffice?
»Eeye reports vulnerability with Symantec Firewall
»Flaw in Norton Firewall Automatic Rule Creation

Symantec Global Headquarters
Symantec Public Relations

»NAV seems to be giving me problems.
»Norton LiveUpdate problems
»[Help] NAV - LiveUpdate
»NAVAPW32 error at startup of NAV2002
»NIS 2004 and Office service pack 3
»not good for trojans
»Why the NAV update?
»Norton 2002 Anti Virus Question
»ZoneAlarm Pro w Pest Patrol vs NIS 2004 vs Other
»W32.HLLW.Rirc (Not particularly catchy I fear)
»[Help] Email not working - Norton SystemWorks 2004 (NSW)
»Norton Internet Security (HELP!)
»(Symantec) Serious Antivirus Email Flaw?

In »Security News headlines:
Serious flaw found in three Symantec products

Symantec Global Headquarters
Symantec Public Relations

»Removed NSW, Cannot Send Mail!
»Norton Internet Security (Trojan Blocked Alert)
»NIS 2004 - Antispam
»Virus Protection for IMAP Mail
»NAV 2004 not functioning right
»NIS 2004 and Office service pack 3
»Security Alert----Norton Antivirus 2003
»Blank Popup Window from NAV?
»Internet Information Server and NIS 2004
»NIS not blocking ads
»NIS = BSOD in Win98SE

Symantec Global Headquarters
Symantec Public Relations

»NIS2004 ActiveX Component Arbitrary File Execution
» Norton AntiSpam ActiveX Component Buffer Overflow
»NIS Program Control ???
»NIS 2003 blocks MSN messenger logon
»Norton Clean Sweep
»How to setup Norton Firewall rules for Spyblocker?
»NIS 2004 Pro and Internet Explorer Problems
»Eeye reports vulnerability with Symantec Firewall
»OutLook and Norton Antivirus
»norton live update not workin correctly...
»Thinking about NAV replacement
»NAV 2003 Activity Log
»NIS blocks Liveupdate

Symantec Global Headquarters
Symantec Public Relations

Symantec definitely needs to work on its customer service. Only spamcop.net is worse (and it basically relies on volunteers).

Unless you are prepared to hang on the phone, you are out of luck in getting responses.

Before I switched off of NIS2003, I emailed them with some questions on package pricing for my 2 machines. I got an auto-reply with some links to FAQS that said if I needed a reply from a real person email this other address.

Emailing that other address got me another auto-reply, and another email address if I needed a reply from a real person.

This third email address was the first email address.

Another time, a 3 years ago, I got the Happy99 virus. It was bonded to a non-executable file, a .jpg, so it couldn't infect me. However my NAV was set to scan all files.

TrendMicro picked it up. And TDS-3 picked it up. I queried the identification and Gavin (I think) emailed me back and said just edit the file and go to the bottom, you can see the code there. I did and I could.

So my NAV wasn't scanning non-executable files even though it was set to scan all files. This would be a problem for an admin who wanted to keep malware off of his/her system. People could store malware in non-executable files.

So I entered into a 3 week rally of trying to Symantec to address the problem. I did this on this forum support area, where their employees respond to your posts.

It was one person, then another, then another.

Each not familiar with the issue. None reading back more than 2 replies. All asking the same basic questions -- over and over and over.

I've used Norton Antivirus for years; however, Norton isn't what it used to be... Ever virus it's caught (VERY FEW) I've had to purge using extreme measures. The others I had to find the hard way. I've switched since then since they couldn't delete VPC32 which kept on attaching itself to my antivirus and firewall every time I updated. I even reformatted a couple of times. NO LUCK.. Maybe the future editions of Norton will be good until then I wait and pray.