Verizon sues Covad alleging false complaints → Who is the Devil willardk??????????

I finally got a chance to read through the declarations submitted by Verizon. Declarations

Well looks like Covad was making fools out of their subscribers for a long time. These are sworn statements. If they hold up in court under examination, I think I hear the fat lady singin' for Covad.
I would be surprised if criminal charges for fraud weren't brought against Coved by the state's regulatory commissions as well.

Covad is going down. DSL is a Telco game. I felt this a long time ago when I first signed up with Verizon. When I went over to Road Runner, it seemed that more and more people were going with Telco DSL.

If you get DSL, it makes sense to go with Telcos. By going with Covad through XO (or another ISP), you have 3 hands in the pocket. With Verizon or another Telco DSL, you have one person for support, service and billing. Believe me, if I still had an interest in DSL, I would only go through Telco. My employer's DSL goes down about 2 times a day. Guess who they have? Covad and XO. Doh!

I started reading some of these. Makes a very interesting case, but of course the conspiracy theorists will put a different spin on things.
In any case, the battle won't be won or lost here. Let the evidence speak and see what happens.

I wouldn't trust any press realease from domains Covad.com or Verizon.com regarding this issue. Neither one is reliable as both are involved in litigation regarding it. Neither one is in a position to provide a un-biased, objective case. Period.

Are You Kidding?

You really have no idea how this works, do you? Going with telco DSL means signing up with an ISP. . . could be Verizon Online, could be ANYONE reselling the service. Those ISPs have a point of Contact at Verizon Advanced Data (DLEC), who in turn have points of contact within the DLEC that the ISP has some or no access to. Some of those entities are actually allowed to talk to the ILEC, while others are not. How does this simplify anything? Also, if you say telco DSL meaning from Verizon Online as the ISP, I would have to say that they are the worst of the bunch -- Being huge, lumbering and filled with perhaps some of the worst sales and support personnel I have ever had the displeasure of talking with, this ISP only really gets people hooked up and working when there are no barriers to the circuit's success. Otherwise, its "Sorry, you cannot get DSL, have a nice day." Their only reason for success is that they sell thousands and thousands of lines because of people like yourself who believe that its all one company and their advertising team is fantastic. It is not any more simplified, nor any better.

Now, with regard to COVAD going down all the time, its true. Its true also that they are a bunch of inexperienced people blaming everything on Verizon. In turn, XO gets to blame COVAD and Verizon when your employer has a problem when in fact XO is not infallible either. Pushing for full disclosure on where the problem lies and working on creating relationships to solve those problems is the only way to succeed. Of course, that's a pipe dream, but maybe with litigation like Verizon's, companies will be forced to disclose who screwed up and in the long run deliver a higher level of quality as a result.

I couldn't help but laugh at those statements, specially 9 and 10.

9 has NOTHING to do with Covad, yet they put it there like it did.

As far as 10 goes, I bet this guy works for Verizon now. hahahahha. What a load of crap.

Rest assure, for every "sworn testimony" given by these losers paid by Verizon, Covad will have a lot more to contradict them. If those statements are the foundation of their case, they will go nowhere, and they know that. I hope not only the suit gets dismissed but also Verizon gets fined for pulling crap like this.

OK, I'll pipe in. I'm a manager for an ILEC that Covad and other CLEC's get facilities from. I honestly can't say that the CLEC is always wrong in blaming the ILEC, but I will say that it does seem to be sort of a blanket response to their customers, "It is the local phone co's fault". My company is bound by law to say nothing bad about any CLEC, or IEC cust for that matter. I have to cover that policy twice a year with my employees. This policy is a condition of employment. Saying anything at all about a CLEC is very bad business. I know in my area of the country, it just doesn't happen. I do see the CLEC people throwing mud at us, regardless of who is at fault. Standing by watching that happen is hard to do when you know the truth, and the truth isn't what is being said.

Like I said, I would rather go through the Telcos. You can state all of the "facts" you want until you turn blue in the face. It still doesn't change my mind and experience with DSL through HoeVad.

DSL through Covad at my job had been down on average 2 times a day. Just until recently, we were on dialup for over a month because Covad and Verizon played the blame game. Once again, I would rather simplify it and go through the Telcos.

Covad just plain sucks. My experience at work.

Good post. You're right. The strides taken by many of the ILEC employees have been great. However, as in any business, the less-than-quality few people or areas are most pervasive among action. On the flip-side, almost all of the trouble tickets opened with the ILEC that I worked with were actually a line condition, however it is definitely possible that other CLEC ISPs were not careful in their handling of the issue before sending to the ILEC. Both sides have their quibbles with the other, but on the whole, they get along good, that is, comparing the ratio of 100% successful lines, ILEC and CLEC side to those that have problems.

Remember, the few rotten apples spoil the whole crop.

Hello,

All of the telcos are divided into divisions by the FCC. They are all clueless. Often the DCLECs keep on top of them so that DSL works. Did it ever occur to you that it could be XO. I mean look at Speakeasy.Net, they use Covad and they have great reviews, while XO has terrible ones.

I agree that there are likely problems on both sides. However, as far as the declarations, the length of time employed at COVAD (some being only one or two months) makes one a little suspect until there are some names and responses attached.

On the other side, with Verizon, it'll be interesting how discovery works on the other side of the fence. In my 'history' with them, maybe then can explain how on multiple calls for a voice clec, their tech signed 'no access' and left though access was available at a bus. 24X7. Or in my personal situation where with clec, cross connect mysteriously was pulled at a pedastel. Wire wasn't hijacked for another customer, just cross connect (and told plainly labeled...that by the BA guy who fixed it). Took them 2 wks before they were able to 'find' the problem.

Again, there are problems and serivce issues on both side. I think the telling story will be when repair records are researched for the case and one determine the time-to-repair for ilec customers vs. clec customers relying on ilec service. I DO hope that one gets brought in. Needless to say, I'm not real happy with either one, but Verizon may end up looking not too good when more info gets out (and when names and job histories get added to the declarations or some of these very short term employees.)

Right on Abe!

If what you're saying is true, God Bless you.

I can assure you that what you describe in no way resembles how Verizon works in the Northeast. Not one bit.

As someone has mentioned below, I've seen way too many stolen pairs (hey, it's either this new POTS line or some CLEC's DSL), "no trouble found" (after diddling around on the pole for a half hour and service coming back to life), and the old "customer no show" where we have access to the apartment building's visitor logs.

And it just keeps happening again and again until people are worn down and give up. I've seen too much of it firsthand to say that Covad is making it up.

Early on, yes they had some really crappy people in the field, but in the last year or so (around layoff time) I've seen the quality of field service and tech support go way up - also hear much more telco lingo and see much improved processes for trouble escalation/resolution.

How about you and your co-workers come work in NYC?

I love Covad fast and reliable is my opinion. On the other hand Ameritech DSL is always down and when it is working it is slow with horrible ping times.

Telco DSL is usually bad compared to covad.

And post #12 is the unbiased opinion of Moderator of the Covad Forum.

I find all this very interesting. I have been in this business for a couple of years and have seen both sides of it. I was with Rhythms as they started out to conquer the world. Being in the sales management side, we were frustrated daily by the answers we got from the ILEC. Every order had "no facilities" or had DLC. Most every order had to be resubmitted a couple of times and nothing ever went smoothly. The answers were frustrating and it seemed to the enduser that we were not telling the truth. If the customer called the LEC themselves, they could usually get service, just not if we submitted the order.

However, I find Covad's behavior to be just as bad. Remember, this period of time was very warlike. The LEC did everything in their power to keep their monopoly in place and the CLECs took no prisoners. I'm not justifying either side, just recounting the facts.

The ultimate losers are the consumers. Once again, they will have limited options and be forced onto overaggregated networks that are built to provide the highest return and not to provide quality service; I've read your previous posts and even you cannot dispute that.

All the CLECs had a model that called for nation-wide builds, state-of-the-art networks, high service touches and rapid deployment. Unfortunately, that does not equal high profits. At the other end of the spectrum, you have a model that says you bury that copper and patch it for the next 50 years; high profits. From the consumer's view, a happy medium would be welcome.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.