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gbroiles
join:2001-03-02
San Jose, CA

gbroiles

Member

[Equipment] Linksys PAP2 first impressions

Ok, I picked up a Linksys PAP2 tonight to play with. Supposedly it's a Sipura 2000 in a Cisco/Linksys box. I dunno.

The box comes with a CD and some Vonage propaganda/setup instructions. It has a single-sheet folded Linksys installation guide which says, more or less, "connect to your LAN using the Ethernet port. plug some phones into the phone ports."

There's no discussion at all of configuration, etc - apparently that all takes place via Vonage's website.

After I plugged it in, I watched what it did with Ethereal. It (automatically - no config) grabbed a DHCP address, asked for the IP address of ls.tftp.vonage.net (a CNAME for tftp.vonage.net), and proceeded to tftp a firmware update (the filename is "/+000000000000/PAP2-bin-2-00-10-LSb_Test.bin", except the zeros are the device's MAC address), and then (apparently) rebooted - it didn't send/rcv any packets for ~ 30 seconds, and then re-upped its DHCP lease.

After rebooting, it reconnects to ls.tftp.vonage.net with tftp, except this time it asks for "/rF3opcIWgT/spa000000000000.xml", gets that file, then asks for "SJfMrdLacw/spa000000000000.xml", gets that file, and then reboots again, except this time it takes almost 2 minutes until it re-ups its DHCP lease. (again, the zeros had my MAC address in them.)

I scanned the box with nmap - the TCP ports it finds open are 25, 69, 110, 389, 1002, and 1720.

At the moment, I would advise against buying a PAP2 if you are hoping for a cheaper Sipura - out of the box, it doesn't seem to act like one.

Actually, out of the box, without talking to Vonage, it's apparently useless.

I'm not an Ethereal expert, so I haven't yet managed to extract the contents of the files that it downloaded from my packet capture file. The two ".xml" files sure don't look like XML to me - they look like gibberish, though I don't know if that's because they're compressed, or encrypted, or both. Within the first 512 bytes of each .xml file is the text string "Salted", which makes me lean towards thinking there's some crypto happening here, but it will take more work to figure that out.

I haven't been able to get anything interesting out of any of the open TCP ports yet - though I am travelling and don't have easy access to a Unix box right now, and don't have good exploring/development tools on my laptop.

I tried plugging a phone into the phone ports to see if I get dialtone. I didn't, but I'm not 100% sure that the hotel phone I borrowed for that task is an appropriate analog phone to be used for that experiment.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

Very cool report, thanks, and TIA for any updates!
hwittenb
join:2003-12-20

hwittenb to gbroiles

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I bought one too for eventual use with vonage. Staples retail store originally wanted to charge more, but they met their web page price after verification.

The box is about 4-in square and 1-1/8-in thick.

Everything I have about the Sepura 2000 says you need to access the web configuration page to make changes. When you try to access the web configuration page on this box by entering »[ipaddress]/admin/advanced you get a message "connection refused" (or any other input variations like that).

So, if it is a Sepura 2000 it is certainly locked to this extent.

SIPinator
@116.xx.115.ts46v-02.

SIPinator to gbroiles

Anon

to gbroiles
The bin file is the 2.10 firmware. The XML is the config file. Vonage is locking the access to ipaddress/admin/.
The Chef
join:2003-12-09

The Chef to gbroiles

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said by gbroiles:
Supposedly it's a Sipura 2000 in a Cisco/Linksys box. I dunno.
Can you tell from the MAC address prefix who makes the unit?

SIPinator
@116.xx.115.ts46v-02.

SIPinator

Anon

Sipura made the guts. Linksys repackaged and added cool blue LEDS.
mrcowboy99
join:2004-08-07
Grapevine, TX

1 edit

mrcowboy99

Member

I too got one from Staples today.

First, they wanted to charge me $69 for it. After discussions and told them about staples.com, (they verified) I got it for $49 and they printed the $40 rebate.

Secondly, I read the information and then took the plunge. Since I didn't have VoIP service, I subscribed and got the min. plan ($14 plan) to test with. I'm out of town but got a local number for me.

The subscription was painless. I then plugged the little box into port one of my WRT54G and plugged in the power. I saw the same thing as he stated earlier. AFter about 3-4 mins, the device settled down so I thought here goes my first VoIP call. AFter that I set the QoS on the Mac Address to High with everything else low. I didn't set the port or Ip address. My bandwidth is about 2m/350k and I'm on comcast cable at the remote location.

Wiping the sweat from my brow and hoping I just didn't waste my hard earned money, I placed a call to my local cell phone. I got a circuits busy message. (Now, I'm starting to get pissed and feeling ripped off.) Second call was to a local thearter to get movie listings. The call was clear and no clicks or echos. It sounded just like the cheap thearter recordings.

The next call was to my home. The call was again excellent. I even had them return the call and got the same good results.

Remember, I didn't port a number so I didn't go thru those headaches. I thought maybe if this works for me and some more positive results, I will cancel and get it reavtivated with the port. (if they let me do that.)

The verdict is still out, but first impressions were excellent and now I'm on board with VoIP... Maybe this might be the best money I spent in a few days escpecially if I'm going to save $30 per month.

More coming later...

montee4
Premium Member
join:2004-02-15
Chicago, IL

montee4

Premium Member

It will be interesting to see if Vonage starts offering a richer feature set for users of the Linksys PAP2. Since Sipura had a hand in this, there are some features currently offered by other providers using the sipura such as anonymous call blocking.

I guess time will tell the fate of the Motorola adapter.
schalliol
join:2003-07-10
Bloomington, IN

schalliol

Member

I guess I don't know what this product has over the motorola adapter. Can someone elaborate? It seems like even less functionality. You can get the motorola device from Vonage for the cost of $9.99 shipping, is there a similar deal for this one?
mrcowboy99
join:2004-08-07
Grapevine, TX

mrcowboy99

Member

I went down to Staples and got my PAP2 for $49 minus a $40 rebate (Plus tax). Price wise, looks like about the same deal.

chriskay
Premium Member
join:2004-03-09
Toronto, ON

chriskay

Premium Member

I wonder if Vonage will discontinue issuing the Moto adapter?

voiplover
Premium Member
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH

voiplover to gbroiles

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to gbroiles
gbroiles Thanks for the heads up.
This may be a good move for Vonage. I imagine that they are eating the cost of the Linksys rebate to boost sales. They have been taking some big hits lately. It looks like you own it.
Is there a disconnect fee if you dump the service after getting your rebate?
mrcowboy99
join:2004-08-07
Grapevine, TX

mrcowboy99

Member

Just for information... the Mac addresses, based on IEEE OUI database, is assigned to Cisco-Linksys and not to Sipura. (Not that it isn't a Sipura engine.)
schalliol
join:2003-07-10
Bloomington, IN

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So again, how is this better than the Motorola unit? Do you have to sign up for a NEW Vonage account to get the rebate? If you use the PAP2, are you not doing QoS with your VoIP data?
craigg
join:2001-06-04
Princeville, HI

craigg

Member

One thought on this new adapter is if the guts are the same, perhaps one could reflash it with the standard Sipura firmware. I ordered a couple of the Linksys adapters from Staples and will know more once I receive them.
RockinRay
join:2004-08-18
Lakeville, MN

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Since Linksys now has information on their website - I would like to setup a static IP. This can be done through voice promt with the unit.

If this is setup first, will the Vonage .bin download kill it? Has anyone tried this yet? I will report back - my unit should be here today and I will get it hooked up this evening.
mrcowboy99
join:2004-08-07
Grapevine, TX

4 edits

mrcowboy99

Member

What version of SIP does the Motorola have? I was looking at the diffences and noticed on the Moto web site they didn't mention this. The PAP2 have SIP v2. The PAP2 is smaller and can be vertically stood up. Don't know about the Moto box since I don't have one.

Price wise, someone posted that they were charged $9.95 for s&h from Vonage on the Moto box. The PAP2 was same after rebate. No difference there.

Everything else looks the same IMHO.

As for the QoS, I'm running mine thru a WRT54G with the Linksys firmware 2.04.4. I enabled QoS on the MAC address only and have gotten excellent results. ( but this is only two days old so the jury is still out.)

I run a DHCP address with an expiration time of 9999 minutes. (Almost 7 days) so I dont' have to worry about the IP changing. (I'd like to set it longer but the firmware only allows four digits.) I haven't looked into static addressing.
gbroiles
join:2001-03-02
San Jose, CA

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The rebate slip I received says that, to be eligible for the rebate, the purchaser must maintain Vonage service for 90 days. However, they say they'll send the rebate in 4-6 weeks, so I'm not sure how that works out.

For someone who intends to sign up for new Vonage service, the potential advantages I see are: smaller size, perhaps better router compatibility (from other messages I've seen, I gather that sometimes the Motorola unit doesn't work well when behind a NAT router). Ideally, someone with both units will be able to comment on voice quality, reliability, etc. I have a Cisco ATA-186 and will post comparisons if I decide to set up Vonage service on the PAP2.

For someone who doesn't care about Vonage service, the advantage would be the opportunity to buy a device that's normally priced at $90 or so for only $10 after rebate, or for $60-70 ignoring the rebate. Of course, that only works if/when people figure out a way to turn the PAP2 into a Sipura 2000.
schalliol
join:2003-07-10
Bloomington, IN

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Thanks for the comment. Does the rebate note you have to be a new customer? I didn't see that, but usually I would think it's implied. Since the PAP2 doesn't offer routing capability, basically it seems that people need to have a router with QoS to make this work with their system properly.
gbroiles
join:2001-03-02
San Jose, CA

gbroiles

Member

There's nothing on the rebate form that says it's only for new customers. Actually, reading carefully, there's nothing on the rebate form that says I have to sign up for additional Vonage service - it just says "Must subscribe to a Vonage monthly service plan and be a customer in good standing for a minimum of 90 days . . . Service must be ordered through Vonage."

I've already been a Vonage customer for almost a year now. Seems to me like I've already met the 90 day test, no need for new service.

But I'm pretty confident that trick doesn't work, and that it's not worth the trouble to fight with them over $40. I wonder if they're smart enough to notice if I write the MAC address of my ATA-186 on the rebate form instead of the MAC address of the PAP2 . . .

7tronics
@mindspring.com

7tronics

Anon

For me, the disconnect charge of $39.99 which is waived only after the Motorola VT100x box is returned is enough to sway me toward the PAP2 from Staples.

Had to search, but of the 7 Staples stores in my area only one has non-defective units available. Two of the stores had wierd responses: "do you want the B or the G unit ?" After patiently explaining and giving each of these guys the SKU twice, they hit some keys and said they didn't have any - and wouldn't be carrying this device. One store had two, then noted they had been returned as "defective". We'll see if the "humm" is really objectionable as noted by some posters reviewing the PAP2.

Will follow this forum and see who/if a break is made to allow PAP2 to be used for another service. In the meantime dropping a BellSouth line and substituting Vonage is $15 a month back in the pocket !

BTW - Earthlink (our DSL provider) also relabels Vonage and has the same $39.99 charge unless the ATA box is returned at agreement termination. Hey, looking forward to playing with the box a bit. so don't want to have to give it back !

Cheers de Mark at 7tronics
RockinRay
join:2004-08-18
Lakeville, MN

RockinRay

Member

Is there an update on the "hum" problem? I returned my unit and am waiting to hear if the problem has been solved.

I see in the above thread some stores has "non defective" units - how do you tell this?

If anyone can provide more information - that would be great!

Thanks...

Ray
thekaps
join:1999-12-14
Acton, MA

thekaps

Member

Linksys support has been useless with this problem. They suggested putting a line filter on it to cancel the noise. I suggested they make a box that doesn't have noise on the line.

Vonage, on the other hand, has been working with me trying to figure out what the problem is. I've now reached 'Tier 3' support so it does seem like they are really looking into it.

Steve.

7tronics
@bellsouth.net

7tronics to 7tronics

Anon

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Re: [Equipment] Linksys PAP2 first impressions +

Hmm, the Linksys PAP2 box proclaims "No Contracts" on the Vonage sticker on the outside of the box, but reading the Vonage "Terms of Service" that Vonage includes in the PAP2 box, section 4.6 Disconnect Fee of $39.99 is still there, as are the restrictive terms !

Section 1.8 still notes the disconnect fee of $39.99 will be refunded if "The Device" is returned to Vonage within 14 days of service termination. But one of the postings here note that Vonage doesn't want the PAP2, so does that mean if we ever terminate this service, we are stuck with a $39.99 charge ?

Also noted again is the prohibition against using this box in a VoIP service that is for any "governmental activities, profit making or non-profit including but not limited to home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, telemarketing ...

So lets see, have to make sure that the phone attached to the PAP2 is never used for Girl Scouts coordination, arranging school events for the kids, and of course never can participate in a business conference call with this. That's to conform with the contract.

I can understand the contract holding the service (Vonage) harmless for service interruptions, but actually stating that it CANNOT be used for any profit or non-profit commercial activity seems to be too strongly worded and unenforceable.

Are these terms in every one of the contracts such as from gphone, Lingo, et al ?

Not taking the box back yet, but haven't let it auto-discover "home" to activate yet either.

Cheers de Mark at 7tronics
7tronics

7tronics

Anon

Re-reading, I see section 1.8 applies to the Residential service option. Seems Vonage wants to force anyone who does any "profit or non-profit" work on VoIP up to the Business options. So much for the attractive $14.99 base rate for 300 minutes.

Cheers de Mark at 7tronics

usa2k
Blessed
MVM
join:2003-01-26
Westland, MI

usa2k

MVM

said by 7tronics:
... So much for the attractive $14.99 base rate for 300 minutes. ...
500 minutes?
ABitCrazy
join:2003-07-14
Elkridge, MD

ABitCrazy to 7tronics

Member

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These type of rules are merely legal mechanisms to prevent abuse, allowing companies to minimize risk and keep costs low. These types of business policies benefit the vast majority of normal users by keeping costs down. Personally, I would rather not have to pay more so that a few users can pay $25 for a business line. No one is going to be monitoring your "type" of usage, but it would be reasonable to expect them to take notice if someone was incurring call-center levels of traffic on a residential, unlimited account.
innoman
-
Premium Member
join:2002-05-07
Seattle, WA

innoman to mrcowboy99

Premium Member

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Re: [Equipment] Linksys PAP2 first impressions

I am not familiar with that firmware, but you should be able to put the mac address and stuff into the wrt54g and tell it what ip to assign the pap2 and any other device. I can do this with my Sveasoft firmware.

7tronics
@ibm.com

7tronics to gbroiles

Anon

to gbroiles

Re: [Equipment] Linksys PAP2 Disconnect update

Vonage web site help desk reply to my inquiry on the Disconnect Fee is quoted below. Understandable and consistent with the Vonage documentation included with the Linksys package, but disappointing.

Tx for correction: that's $14.99/mo for 500 minutes not 300.

Guess I'll look for returned PAP2s to appear on eBay or the Staples return table if/when a way to reprogram for other services is reported.

So for $50 + tax and $15/mo + taxes per month could have our family try out VoIP for a few months and get a rebate of $40 at the end of that period: net cost $55 + taxes for 90 days.
Vonage is the only service I've priced that has local number avail in the central 919 area code.

OR could go with SIPphone micro-286 for same basic service for $59 + s/h + $0.035/min (100min/mo) + $6/mo (US) = approx $87.50 + s/h + taxes for 90 days and have device at end of period that I may continue to use or reset to other service provider. However incoming calling would be long distance to all who are not local to our area code (919).

Either way, the second Bellsouth line is soon to be history.

appreciate alternative suggestions here. Mark at 7tronics
-----Forwarded Message-----
From:"Vonage DigitalVoice Customer Care"
Sent: Sep 3, 2004 12:46 AM
To: 7tronics...
Subject: [vonage.com #702109] Other

Thank you for contacting Customer Care! We apologize for the delay in response to your inquiry.

If you return the device within your trial period, you would return it back to Staples (you will not be charged the disconnect fee). Beyond that point, you would return it directly to Vonage and the disconnect fee will be refunded. Please do not hesitate to contact us for any
additional questions/concerns.

Vonage appreciates your business to serve you as a valued customer.

Thanks

Joann
Customer Care
Phone:
1-866-243-4357 US Customers
1-877-272-0528 Canadian customers
Fax: 1-732-333-1353
hollan
join:2004-08-17
Monroe, WA

hollan to gbroiles

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Re: [Equipment] Linksys PAP2 first impressions

Ports 25 and 110 open are interesting: they're SMTP and POP, respectively. Now, what, prey tell, would one want to email to and from the thing... unsolicited software updates, perhaps?

I have a Moto VT1005 and no mention is made of opening ports 25 and 110 inbound to it (I haven't nmapped it either). Perhaps Vonage realized that they have no way to force remote units to "phone home" except at reboot time, and wanted a mechanism to do so.

Requiring port 25 open would be problematic to me: I sink my own email and SMTP traffic is already redirected to the mailserver for the house. Without details, I could not have it relay to such a device (and I doubt Vonage would volunteer the details).