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Shaw Confirms Plans To Charge Per Gig Overages
Will assume you're an idiot for no extra charge

As we noted the other day, Shaw Communications customers have noticed that Shaw appears to be preparing to join fellow Canadian cable broadband companies Rogers and Cogeco in charging per gigabyte overage fees. "This is currently a pilot program in Edmonton which, after the evaluation of its success, will be expanded to other Shaw service areas starting next year," Shaw confirmed to Broadband Reports. Shaw has also stopped by our Shaw forum to justify the move. As with Time Warner Cable and Cogeco before them, Shaw denies that a multi-thousand percent mark up over cost for bandwidth is about making money:

quote:
I've seen some posts here suggesting that this new policy has been financially motivated to avoid upgrading our networks. That's actually not the case. In fact, just a few weeks ago we increased the included usage for all of our services by 25%, just in time for NetFlix. If you want to think about it in financial terms, just consider how much more bandwidth the network would need to allow a 25% increase for every customer, and how much that kind of network upgrade would cost. It's pretty clear that our motives are not financial. If they were, increasing the included usage would not be very sensible, would it?
With cost to provide terrestrial bandwidth and hardware continually dropping, overages like this absolutely are about making additional money for companies that pay pennies per gigabyte. Slight bumps in speeds in an over subscription model don't really justify the shift to punitive per gigabyte overages, but Shaw certainly gets points for trying. Shaw's move comes as Netflix launches broadband streaming in Canada, something certain to make the "excessive" use of today the standard consumption of tomorrow. As for how much you'll pay:
quote:
...this is neither ridiculous nor financially motivated. Rather, it is a way of encouraging our customers to remain within their included monthly traffic...
-Shaw
If you exceed your monthly traffic allowance, you'll receive a bill for $1 per GB for Extreme and above, $2 per GB for High Speed and High Speed Lite. Considering how much media, etc, you can obtain in 1 GB, $1 is not expensive. However, if you plan to exceed by a considerable margin, data packs are also available, and what these do is allow you to increase the traffic allowance by the following amounts:

$5 for 10 GB

$20 for 60 GB

$50 for 250 GB


For the record, $1-2 per gigabyte is expensive for terrestrial broadband. As we've covered for years, caps are not uncommon, but making those caps clear is a priority. Per gigabyte overages are something else entirely, and are a punitive way for carriers both cash in on Internet video, and deter consumers from straying from their own TV offerings. While overages are bad enough, ISPs seem insistent on compounding the problem by assuming their customers are idiots and see none of these realities. There's then the added problem of providing the consumer with an accurate usage meter -- something it's not yet clear if Shaw will accomplish.

The entire thread in our forums is worth a read, and on later pages Shaw goes to some of the greatest lengths we've seen to defend the new practice. Most of the Canadian consumers in the thread aren't particularly impressed, but won't have much of a way to vote with their wallet -- due to limited competition and the fact most Canadian ISPs have now embraced this model.
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·Consolidated Com..

1 recommendation

spewak

Premium Member

Indictment?

Or is it fact? Notice the quote from the article:
"This is currently a pilot program in Edmonton which, after the evaluation of its success, will be expanded to other Shaw service areas starting next year,"
Seems like they have already come to a conclusion.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Indictment?

That's usually the case with these trials. There's no real interest in seeing consumer response (they KNOW consumer response), it's about making sure billing systems work well enough to begin bringing in the additional revenue...

Shaw_User
@printmaxpro.com

Shaw_User

Anon

Re: Indictment?

They will see nothing on my bill if they bring this in.....their 250+ they see from me every month for HDTV/phone/internet will be zero a month.

-Can't overcharge zero.

Jim deeen
@shawcable.net

Jim deeen

Anon

Re: Indictment?

agreed i will be switching to teksavvy for $39.95/Month Up to 5M/800k unlimited since it is 28$ cheaper then shaw currently costs since they already overcharge us. Do you really think we will pay more in overage charges then it would cost us to buy unlimited?

»teksavvy.com/ look at what real competition shaw and see how you fail to compete.... you can't collude with telus forever once people see your money grab you can kiss your cable and voip phone customers goodbye as well. Might as well bundle it all with teksavvy or get telus assuming they still only harrase you with phone calls rather then overcharge for stuff that costs you pennies on the dollar... You already cost to much and provide too little.

IF you where anymore crappy you would be »www.shockware.com/ bad.....

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

trainwreck6 to Shaw_User

Member

to Shaw_User
Shaw can kiss both my ass cheeks.
EdmundGerber
join:2010-01-04

EdmundGerber to Karl Bode

Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

That's usually the case with these trials. There's no real interest in seeing consumer response (they KNOW consumer response), it's about making sure billing systems work well enough to begin bringing in the additional revenue...
I think he was referring to the success part of that statement. From that statement plans will go forward to spread it to all shaw areas - as 'success' is all but assured, given their statement.

They are likely obliged by law to trial it or something. Thanks again cogeco, thanks for nothing.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 recommendation

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Indictment?

Well, right. I was just saying "success" has absolutely nothing to do with what consumers think of the process, and yeah the trial will be a "smashing success" whatever happens because the goal is to boost revenues ahead of a surge in Netflix streaming to please investors -- something that happens even if customers hate this idea and their usage monitor winds up being awful.
jh2010
join:2009-09-03
Brooklyn, NY

jh2010

Member

Shaw Confirms Plans To Charge Per Gig Overages

Many ISPs throughout the world have GB limits on Internet access.

In Australia, the BS overage charges were causing headlines(such as a person leaving Kazzar running(minimized but not closed) and incurring huge overage charges, over $10,000).

The solution, give them all the Bandwidth they can use(subject to Cable and ADSL limitations). When they go over their monthly GB limit, throttle their link to 64K, 128K or maybe even 256K until the month cycle is completed or they upgrade to another plan. This keeps the costs consistent and enables users to know how much they are using(They also provide usage Stats websites so users can see their consumption at a glance).

wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA

1 recommendation

wdoa

Member

Re: Shaw Confirms Plans To Charge Per Gig Overages

Ahh, but that wouldn't increase the corporations revenue. It's all about how to extract more money from our wallets.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

1 recommendation

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: Shaw Confirms Plans To Charge Per Gig Overages

said by wdoa:

Ahh, but that wouldn't increase the corporations revenue. It's all about how to extract more money from our wallets.
Exactly. These types of limits and regulations are implemented only to make additional profits and to protect their own video business for those companies that offer it. There is simply no reason to restrict users based on a total consumption limit. A properly managed network should be able to ensure that everyone gets their fair share of the available capacity.
banner
Premium Member
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

banner

Premium Member

Bright side

People infected by botnet malware will have a financial incentive to fix their PCs or to disconnect them from the network.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: Bright side

Right, after they get a bill for $20,000.00 and do not understand why. These schemes are like giving poisoned candy to the customer without explaining why it will make them sick.

Be the first to watch bankrupt the customer in high definition on NetFlix. Customers are poisoned by lack of competition. I worked for a Dial-Up ISP that was constantly upgrading their network and modem pools to stay ahead of the competition.They finally threw in the towel when they realized that DOCSIS and DSL would write their epitaph.

notyet321
@verizon.net

notyet321

Anon

Thus spake Shaw to its customers:

"What costs us nothing extra will cost you an arm and a leg."

mix
join:2002-03-19
Romeo, MI

mix

Member

What is the current cap?

What does Shaw have right now as their current caps?

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four

Premium Member

Re: What is the current cap?

The link »Shaw Considering Imposing Overages? in the story summary has a link to Shaw's current tiers of service. The cap ranges from 12 GB to 125 GB.

pfak
Premium Member
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC

pfak to mix

Premium Member

to mix
Residential

Lite @ 13GB ($35.00)
High-Speed @ 75GB ($47.00)
Extreme @ 125GB ($57.00)
Warp @ 250GB ($107.00)
Nitro @ 500GB ($160.00)

Business

Point Of Sale @ 10GB ($21.95)
High Speed @ 70GB ($54.95)
Extreme @ 110GB ($78.85)
Server @ 200GB ($301.95)

mix
join:2002-03-19
Romeo, MI

mix

Member

Re: What is the current cap?

Wait, why are the business caps smaller?

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: What is the current cap?

said by mix:

Wait, why are the business caps smaller?
the same reason the prices are higher for same exact service. businesses can afford to be raped harder.

Megax
@shawcable.net

Megax to mix

Anon

to mix
high speed lite
35$ for the 13 gigs a month tree which is insane already considering the ISP that shaw bought up in my area charged me 45$ for unlimited and this was in 2002 also i had 3x more upload speed then i do now.

high speed 47$ a month with 75 gig month limit

high speed xtreme is 57$
which i pay for already because they forced me onto a higher teir because of my usage.
125 GB/month data transfer

then there is warp for 107$ at 50 megs a sec 250 GB/month data transfer which has as much bandwidth which has the only reasonable cap but unavailable in most areas.

Already they have forced me to pay more for my usage and now they want more. And the CRTC will let them because they do what is in the best interests of the big corporations

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

Shaw Will assume you're an idiot for no extra charge

Shaw Will assume you're an idiot for no extra charge

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74

Premium Member

Heading the Wrong Direction

As cell phone services slowly move toward dropping the minute driven packages toward unlimited usage cable companies in exactly the opposite direction. With more and more of our lives becoming inter-meshed with the internet placing caps on it's usage seems criminal. And as long as the customers sit still or even encourage caps the cable will continue to stagnate while raking in millions and millions for a service they promised and changed on a dime.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Wireline Costs

To be specific each gigabyte of data is estimated to cost them 4-5 cents: »dslprime.com/a-wireless- ··· gigabyte

Also the "congestion" excuse is pathetic these days with the presence of DOCSIS 3 and the massive, 80% margins cable companies make on each customer. They can easily afford to split enough nodes to avoid congestion.
eraser122
join:2009-03-09

eraser122

Member

Re: Wireline Costs

said by sonicmerlin:

To be specific each gigabyte of data is estimated to cost them 4-5 cents: »dslprime.com/a-wireless- ··· gigabyte

Also the "congestion" excuse is pathetic these days with the presence of DOCSIS 3 and the massive, 80% margins cable companies make on each customer. They can easily afford to split enough nodes to avoid congestion.
Where do you keep getting this 80% margin (which I presume you mean profit margin) from?
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Wireline Costs

said by eraser122:

said by sonicmerlin:

To be specific each gigabyte of data is estimated to cost them 4-5 cents: »dslprime.com/a-wireless- ··· gigabyte

Also the "congestion" excuse is pathetic these days with the presence of DOCSIS 3 and the massive, 80% margins cable companies make on each customer. They can easily afford to split enough nodes to avoid congestion.
Where do you keep getting this 80% margin (which I presume you mean profit margin) from?
Craig Moffett: »blog.ockhamresearch.com/ ··· to-come/
eraser122
join:2009-03-09

eraser122

Member

Re: Wireline Costs

said by sonicmerlin:

said by eraser122:

said by sonicmerlin:

To be specific each gigabyte of data is estimated to cost them 4-5 cents: »dslprime.com/a-wireless- ··· gigabyte

Also the "congestion" excuse is pathetic these days with the presence of DOCSIS 3 and the massive, 80% margins cable companies make on each customer. They can easily afford to split enough nodes to avoid congestion.
Where do you keep getting this 80% margin (which I presume you mean profit margin) from?
Craig Moffett: »blog.ockhamresearch.com/ ··· to-come/
Ok, but he doesn't cite where he got those numbers, and I'm not convinced that he really means profit margin and not simply markup on a product. Those are two distinct things.

Profit margin typically is defined as overall net income of a company after taxes as a percentage of the revenue that company takes in overall. That formula factors in operating expenses such as employees, building leases, the cost of buildout, etc. You can't attribute a margin on a single product, because you can't factor in many operating expenses to that product and only that product (ex. technician, the cars/trucks they need to use, etc.). Those are indirect costs.

Take a look at Comcast's 10-K financial statement for the year ending in 2009. »www.google.com/finance?f ··· AQ:CMCSA

They take in over $35 billion in revenue for that year. At the same time, their net income (their profit) after taxes is $3.6 billion. Going by the formula to calculate a company's profit margin, you get $3.6 billion divided by $35 billion, giving you just over a 10% profit margin, meaning that for every dollar that Comcast took in as revenue, 10 cents of that dollar is actually profit, while the remaining 90 are used to pay off operating expenses.

So I really don't know what page Moffett is on, but I think he's confusing profit margin with markup on a product.

Ron23
@shawcable.net

Ron23

Anon

Re: Wireline Costs

said by eraser122:

Ok, but he doesn't cite where he got those numbers, and I'm not convinced that he really means profit margin and not simply markup on a product. Those are two distinct things.

Profit margin typically is defined as overall net income of a company after taxes as a percentage of the revenue that company takes in overall. That formula factors in operating expenses such as employees, building leases, the cost of buildout, etc. You can't attribute a margin on a single product, because you can't factor in many operating expenses to that product and only that product (ex. technician, the cars/trucks they need to use, etc.). Those are indirect costs.

Take a look at Comcast's 10-K financial statement for the year ending in 2009. »www.google.com/finance?f ··· AQ:CMCSA

They take in over $35 billion in revenue for that year. At the same time, their net income (their profit) after taxes is $3.6 billion. Going by the formula to calculate a company's profit margin, you get $3.6 billion divided by $35 billion, giving you just over a 10% profit margin, meaning that for every dollar that Comcast took in as revenue, 10 cents of that dollar is actually profit, while the remaining 90 are used to pay off operating expenses.

So I really don't know what page Moffett is on, but I think he's confusing profit margin with markup on a product.
So.... is that 10% profit AFTER they paid huge upper management Salaries and Bonuses?
pb2k
join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB

pb2k

Member

Does the bandwidth expire?

The only question is, do you have to use the entire bandwidth block in a month? I would consider the 250GB bandwidth block a reasonable deal if unused bandwidth didn't expire (ie you could go 25GB over the limit for 10 months straight on a single 250GB block).

I personally find that (albeit I'm not on shaw) I generally run 65d/5u to 150d/10u depending on the month, so given a 125GB (extreme-I) cap, I could probably make a 250GB block stretch out for almost 2 years if I tried hard enough.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: Does the bandwidth expire?

Don't give 'em any ideas.. They might pull that next year.

"We'll just give them a 100GB, 250GB, 500GB, or 1TB chunk for the ENTIRE YEAR. We'll charge accordingly."

2 words.. Screw that..
jpom5
join:2005-09-16
Edmonton, AB

1 edit

jpom5 to pb2k

Member

to pb2k
In the forum thread is was stated that the Data Packs must be used in that month (bill cycle) there is no roll-over apparently it has to do with Shaw's counters resetting every bill cycle, but if you believe they couldn't adjust that if they wanted too I have ocean front property in Edmonton to sell you too.

Anon7
@shawcable.net

Anon7 to pb2k

Anon

to pb2k
no it doesnt carry over. If you don't use it in 1 month...it's gone. And if you way under your aloted monthly package NO savings, as in rebate are passed on to you.

Anon6
@comcast.net

Anon6

Anon

Extra Bandwith

This is about making extra money from people who use the service more. They know what people use the service for and do with the service. The prices for "extra bandwidth" aren't cheap by any means and proves that.

cchhat01
Dr. Zoidberg
join:2001-05-01
Elmhurst, NY

cchhat01

Member

Why not just...

... throttle the connection (to a speed ~256kbits/sec) instead of charging overages... oh right, i forgot, there's no profitable business model in that.

Taz
@96.51.17.x

Taz

Anon

Stress Less!

The only people that are stressing about this change are those who are abusing the system (and those with botnet infections). This change will not impact 98% (or more) of Shaw's customer base.

MM
@shawcable.net

MM

Anon

Re: Stress Less!

Really you think people know they have only 13 GB/month data transfer for the lowest plan in my city? wont effect 98% of customers is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. With caps that make COMCRAP look good and no option for unlimited or even blocks of bandwidth from the duopolies. People here tend to use their internet not just check emails... considering downloading the new wowpatch and a couple of games over legit services can ezly break the cap and then some.

I dont know where u get off saying it wont effect 98% of people, unless you mean until they get 100$ overage fee because their household has more then 1 person using the internet and youtube....

pkarlos_76
join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB

pkarlos_76 to Taz

Member

to Taz
said by Taz :

The only people that are stressing about this change are those who are abusing the system (and those with botnet infections). This change will not impact 98% (or more) of Shaw's customer base.
Agreed!!

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit

Premium Member

why not.

Just offer what you can handle, instead of oversubscribing to a point of no return? Oh wait, that's not good enough for the bottom line, instead of making an obscene profit, I would rather become greedier, oh yes because gigabytes are definitely valued at 1 dollar. I can't believe that Rep thinks that customers arevtgat ignorant. Who cares if you boosted capacity by 25 %, if you cant handle the speed, don't offer the tier. I mean, is it really that glhard to understand?

NiX
@eldoradogold.com

NiX

Anon

Switch to NOVUS!

Novus is sick, no overcharges, and WAAAAY cheaper then Shaw "rip-off" cable!

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter

Premium Member

Overage fees

250 GB for $50

Seriously, given their obscene costs it would be cheaper to buy a couple of hard drives and FedEX them around the whole world. As much as I loath Bell, at least those SOB's have a cap on how much their overcharge fee is.

Congratulations Shaw Communications, you have raised the bar of how to screw over customers.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Obviously something did not go right

during telco deregulation in Canada. The U.S went through the same things and have monopolies, duopolies, but we don't have to suffer as much from cost and shady practices as Canada.

ShawSucks
@grouptelecom.net

ShawSucks

Anon

ShawSucks

I had so many problems with Shaw internet it was insane. They kept saying it was a problem at my house, what pile of crap. I switched over to Telus a month ago, no one had to come to my house, my connections problems disappeared and I've never looked back. Do yourself a favour and drop Shaw!

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

When Comcast introduced the 250gb cap

I breathed a bit of a sigh of relief as that high cap seemed a bit reasonable to me.

Then I see AT&T and others with these laughable 2gb caps all the while AT&T encourages MORE people to use their products AND new Apps are coming out daily for people to use it.

It is a joke that these companies are offering laughably low caps

I know, I know....AT&T claims that 99% (exaggerating) of people don't hit the 2gb cap yet not a real surprise that I, and many others, on internet forums seem to be coming near it monthly and I am NOT a Netflix streamer or a heavy user whatsoever

They put these caps in so more people will hit it
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

Re: When Comcast introduced the 250gb cap

said by Bill Neilson:

I breathed a bit of a sigh of relief as that high cap seemed a bit reasonable to me.

Then I see AT&T and others with these laughable 2gb caps all the while AT&T encourages MORE people to use their products AND new Apps are coming out daily for people to use it.

It is a joke that these companies are offering laughably low caps

I know, I know....AT&T claims that 99% (exaggerating) of people don't hit the 2gb cap yet not a real surprise that I, and many others, on internet forums seem to be coming near it monthly and I am NOT a Netflix streamer or a heavy user whatsoever

They put these caps in so more people will hit it
If that 2gb cap is for UVERSE DSL, they're in for a rude awakening in customer loss. Wireless broadband isn't a real comparison when most companies are a ripoff.

Neverthless Canadians getting ripped off again by another broadband provider. I seriously doubt that running backbone fiber across Canada is any more or less expensive than it is to run across most of the northern USA (north of most major metro areas on the coasts).

MM
@shawcable.net

MM

Anon

I will be switching

To telus or teksavvy in a second should they pull this BS. They can kiss my 120 bucks a month goodbye, considering how much they overcharge already this is unacceptable.

The fact that the two major providers refuse to compete in bandwidth just proves the collusion between them so they can FORCE THEIR OWN VOD SERVICES DOWN YOUR THROAT. considering the cost of bandwidth this is a flat out attack on your choices. With higher plans($67) at mere 100 gigs a month for a whole family in a house in the digital age where all content can be transferred over the internet rather then in dvds and physical media overpriced and pathetic caps are an attack on people who are already paying more then they should.

Im sorry but when COMCRAP has better and more acceptable caps for less money something is wrong....

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

Re: I will be switching

If Telus charges it to TekSavvy, TekSavvy as a wholesaler will be forced to pay and not through any fault of their own.

Zod
@tdbank.ca

Zod to MM

Anon

to MM
Telus doesn't enforce caps on their Turbo or faster packages. They still seem to turn a good profit. I don't see why telus doesn't make this intentional and advertise the crap out of being unlimited? They could make Shaw look really bad in their advtertising.. and even people who don't use alot would attracted to unlimited.

When DSL is loosing customers to cable, you would think Telus would jump all over it. Telus can't beat shaw on speeds, but they can sure shaw on bandwidth consumption.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

1 edit

TheMG

Premium Member

Ummmm...

"Considering how much media, etc, you can obtain in 1 GB, $1 is not expensive."

The charges would only be acceptable if said media could be legally obtained at no cost other than the bandwidth usage, which is not the case. Assuming someone is legally obtaining and paying for the media, they are paying more than they should be due to the overages. The overage charges being like an added tax!

And for the record, you can't even squeeze 30 minutes of HIGH-QUALITY 1080p video in 1GB.

$1/GB not expensive? Give me a break!

Turning heavy internet users into a cash cow is all they're doing.

When is the quality and cost of internet services in Canada going to stop getting WORST?
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