FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ 2 edits |
FFH5
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 8:45 am
If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeIf Apple and its upcoming iPad supported Flash, most of the TV shows they are considering offering for reduced prices could be gotten for free from the network's web sites or from Hulu. But that would break the Apple faithful's dependence on iTunes and the steady stream of cash it sends Apple's way.
Of course, maybe that is the real reason why Apple doesn't support Flash - it could cut off the dependence on the iTunes store for video. | |
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| The Dv8orJust call me Dong Suck Oh, M.D. Premium Member join:2001-08-09 Denver, CO ARRIS TG862 Cisco 2811 TP-Link Archer AX10
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Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeYeah, that must be it. The only reason Apple doesnt support Flash is because that will definitively make iTunes the only way to deliver TV and video to an iPod. Yeah, never mind the fact that Flash is a shit platform, or that Hulu could very easily deliver a non-Flash, iPod compatible website. Must be because Apple's pure evil, and wants to make your life oh-so-difficult. | |
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Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeFlash is a shit platform, but it's still a widely used one. Rather than providing it's users what's needed to view many websites, Apple makes them think Flash is "evil" and is not a worthy platform. | |
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| | | jus10 join:2009-08-04 Gainesville, VA |
jus10
Member
2010-Feb-15 10:26 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeNo, Adobe has done wonders for convincing me all of their products are crap.
I have Flash installed on the HTPC but not on my primary machine, any secondary machine, or the iPhone (obviously). I don't want it on any of those. What's sad is that Silverlight on the HTPC (a Mac) works better than flash does. Ah well.
I want streaming video; I don't need some security disaster from Adobe for that. | |
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| | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
to The Dv8or
Flash has its troubles but is certainly, IMO, not 'shit'. Silverlight is the only thing close and...is better?
What would you suggest Hulu do to deliver a non-Flash, iPod compatible site? Have two versions of its video (QT, FLV)? Three (QT, FLV, MPEG)? Maybe four?
Yay for the good old days when providers had to provide multiple versions of their video for the various plugins and configurations out there...and folks had to keep a variety of plugins installed and updated. Yay... ? KM | |
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| | | beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH |
beaups
Member
2010-Feb-15 11:09 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeIf Hulu wanted the iphone/ipad audience they would offer an alternative site/streams for those devices.
For some reason, they don't want it. Keep in mind Hulu specifically is very controlling over what they want you viewing their content on.
Considering there are millions upon millions of iphone and other non-flash smartphone users out there, I would place the burden on Hulu. | |
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| | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD
1 recommendation |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 11:48 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeI would place the burden on Apple. Hulu is certainly not the only provider using Flash video- hundreds of others are. If Apple is serious about having their products be true media devices, they should support the media the content providers offer, not force all those providers to change things up to fit their unique and proprietary hardware.
Flash video is nice as it offers a single solution, getting away from the days of multiple video formats. Why do we have to get back into that again because of one hardware maker? KM | |
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| | | | | beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH |
beaups
Member
2010-Feb-15 4:13 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeSorry but I disagree with you. What is so unique about apple's hardware that every other phone vendor has the same lack of flash? Where's flash on android? Where's flash on BB? Where's flash on WinMO??
And I'm gonna bet a shiny dime that when flash starts showing up on these devices it's going to be effective only for ads and junk apps...videos we'll find we don't have the horsepower to enjoy.
It's up to the content providers to make sure that users can consume their content on the devices they own. | |
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| | | | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 10:23 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeNo problem with disagreements! Adobe is working on Player version 10 which will support all mobile phones, except the iPhone (due to Apple not approving, not due to Adobe not trying) in late 2010. This article sums it up, though a little old: » www.mydigitallife.info/2 ··· -phones/So yes, vaporware for now, and who knows how well it will work! Needless to say, Adobe has a LOT riding on this release so I imagine they're working hard to make it reliable and perform well. How people use Flash on mobile devices is not an Adobe issue, its a developer issue, yes? Of course, if the device has the capability to play video via other means, I hope the Flash wrapper doesn't add so much overhead that the performance is less...and surely, again, Adobe is fully aware of that. We'll see! KM | |
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| | | | | | tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO
1 recommendation |
to beaups
said by beaups:Sorry but I disagree with you. What is so unique about apple's hardware that every other phone vendor has the same lack of flash? Where's flash on android? Where's flash on BB? Where's flash on WinMO?? And I'm gonna bet a shiny dime that when flash starts showing up on these devices it's going to be effective only for ads and junk apps...videos we'll find we don't have the horsepower to enjoy. It's up to the content providers to make sure that users can consume their content on the devices they own. 1. There are demos of older versions of flash playing on mobile devices (The HTC Hero has flash support, for example). It may not be HD, but it's quite possible. 2. Youtube and Vimeo have alternate sites set up that use HTML5 for video. That comes with its own issues, though (namely video codec licensing for Mpeg4). 3. Regardless of how many platforms support it, all but Apple intend to have support, and the reason is because of the amount of existing content. Apple and its lemmings want 70% of the internet to change rather than face reality: Flash is extremely prevalent on the internet, and HTML5 is NOT (yet) the solution. Apple has a stake in this in that, as the OP mentioned - Flash video and games compete with the AppStore. | |
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| | | | | eco Premium Member join:2001-11-28 Wilmington, DE |
to KoolMoe
said by KoolMoe:I would place the burden on Apple. Hulu is certainly not the only provider using Flash video- hundreds of others are. If Apple is serious about having their products be true media devices, they should support the media the content providers offer, not force all those providers to change things up to fit their unique and proprietary hardware. Flash video is nice as it offers a single solution, getting away from the days of multiple video formats. Why do we have to get back into that again because of one hardware maker? KM Hulu already supports the video format that iPhones, iPods and iPads use: H.264. All the flash player is doing is decoding the H.264 video that is located on Hulu's servers for you instead of your browser doing it natively. The thing is Chrome from Google (as well as their Android mobile browser) and Safari on the Mac and Mobile Safari on Apple's mobile devices support native playback of the H.264 playback so Flash is unnecessary. Hulu simply needs to cut out the Flash player and this stuff would work out of the box on these devices/browsers. | |
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| | | | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 10:26 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeGood point, I hadn't considered.
So when all browsers support this native rendering well enough to rival the Flash player, and everyone has a browser that does so...cool enough!
When do you think that will happen? When is HTML5 due to be officially ratified? KM | |
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| | Da Man join:2008-05-08 Hanover, PA |
to The Dv8or
They block Hulu on the PS3 and wouldn't doubt they would do the same on the iPad. | |
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| | Gbcue Premium Member join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA |
to The Dv8or
said by The Dv8or:Yeah, that must be it. The only reason Apple doesnt support Flash is because that will definitively make iTunes the only way to deliver TV and video to an iPod. Yeah, never mind the fact that Flash is a shit platform, or that Hulu could very easily deliver a non-Flash, iPod compatible website. Must be because Apple's pure evil, and wants to make your life oh-so-difficult. Sounds like somebody's jealous. | |
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| KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD
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to FFH5
I agree 100% that this is the majority of the reason Flash is not supported on Apple devices. Maybe not the *only* reason but, IMO, certainly the primary. KM | |
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| Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A to FFH5
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 12:34 pm
to FFH5
You mean if Adobe Flash wasn't such a horrible bloated crash happy POS... | |
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| | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 12:53 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeI really don't understand where this comes from. I visit a variety of websites, many using Flash to various degrees. I use IE and Firefox have multiple tabs open for various sites.
Once in a while I get a slow down due to many tabs, applications, and surely a lot of Flash runtime threads being invoked.
The training products we create almost all use Flash, some fairly basic some very complex. None of our customers have ever complained about the product crashing their system.
I use a PC pretty exclusively. I understand, and Adobe has admitted, the Mac player is not nearly as robust as it needs to be.
Yeap, Flash can be a resource hog. Perhaps my 'multimedia development' machines handle these Flash sites/apps better than most, but it's not THAT high-end (3 to 4gb RAM, dual-core 2ghz, more or less, 256mb video PCIe cards).
There are definitely improvements to be made but I just never see, personally or in my colleague/friends/customer relationships this 'horrible bloated crash happy POS' experience that so many others seem to...
Weird. KM | |
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| | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 1:13 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeThat is the difference. Flash on PC is reasonably reliable. Flash on OS X is a horrible disaster. It's REALLY buggy and a tremendous resource hog.
Apple claims that over 1/2 of all crash reports they receive are flash related; over 1/2 of all crash reports are coming from this single app. | |
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Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freesaid by Z80A:That is the difference. Flash on PC is reasonably reliable. Flash on OS X is a horrible disaster. It's REALLY buggy and a tremendous resource hog. Apple claims that over 1/2 of all crash reports they receive are flash related; over 1/2 of all crash reports are coming from this single app. You do realize that is Apple's fault, right? They have long refused to cooperate with Adobe to create a more stable and reliable Flash version for Macs. Your venomous hate of Flash is misplaced towards the wrong company. | |
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| eco Premium Member join:2001-11-28 Wilmington, DE |
eco to FFH5
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 7:23 pm
to FFH5
When will people learn that Apple is a hardware company? Apple could give a shit about locking you in to iTunes. Apple sells hardware and that is how that make their money. It's always been that way. Apple makes barely any money in the grand scheme of things from iTunes. Look at any analyst break down of their quarterly earnings and you'd understand this. The vast majority of the revenue the iTunes store plus in goes to the content owners and the cost of running the data centers etc. I guess I can understand where people stuck in the Microsoft mindset of selling intellectual property (MS) versus devices (Apple) could get this confused.
If Hulu wanted to make an iPhone/iPad app or make an HTML5 (native video playback in the browser, what Google, Apple, Mozilla, etc. are pushing for) version of their site Apple wouldn't do anything to stop this.. In fact, there are rumors Hulu is trying to ready and HTML5 version of the site in time for the iPad launch. | |
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| | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD
1 recommendation |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 10:32 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeAgreed Apple makes their money on hardware. But the tie to services like iTunes is what drives, enables, and encourages that sort of hardware purchase and preference. Would the iPod have been so popular without the iTunes store behind it?
And, agreed too, Apple would likely not prevent a provider from creating an HTML5 app...because it reinforces the need to not use Flash and to use an Apple solution instead. Subtle perhaps - Apple uses a lot of psychology in their marketing.
I'm not saying Flash is wonderful, I'm saying: 1) Flash does not deserve a lot of the crap it gets. It's enabled a huge transformation of the media web (for good or bad). It's a great platform but one that definitely has room to improve.
2) Apple is disingenuous when it faults Flash as the sole reason it's not on the iPhone. Apple could make its own Flash player. Apple could provide access to the hardware specs to Adobe for them to refine the player. Apple shows no interest in actually working with Adobe, hence Apple has some other motivation.
KM | |
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| | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 2 edits |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 10:35 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeI don't buy this blame Apple nonsense. Silverlight is stable in OS X, Flash isn't. If MS can pull it together, Adobe can. Adobe is lazy and putting a half-assed effort into flash for OS X. It is not the responsibility of Apple to spend $$$ and resources to do Adobe's work for them.
I personally see multiple flash crashes EVERY DAY. It's the only item I run that ever gives me a problem. And I am obviously not alone given 1/2 of all crash reports going to Apple are caused by Flash. Flash on OS X is an utter disaster and Adobe is 100% to blame for it.
While flash originally brought cool media, now it (flash for OS X) is a bloated mess bringing intensely annoying ads, security problems and horribly slow page load times...if it doesn't crash first. | |
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| | | | tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO |
tiger72
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 10:45 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freesaid by Z80A:I don't buy this blame Apple nonsense. Silverlight is stable in OS X, Flash isn't. If MS can pull it together, Adobe can. Adobe is lazy and putting a half-assed effort into flash for OS X. It is not the responsibility of Apple to spend $$$ and resources to do Adobe's work for them. I personally see multiple flash crashes EVERY DAY. It's the only item I run that ever gives me a problem. And I am obviously not alone given 1/2 of all crash reports going to Apple are caused by Flash. Flash on OS X is an utter disaster and Adobe is 100% to blame for it. While flash originally brought cool media, now it (flash for OS X) is a bloated mess bringing intensely annoying ads, security problems and horribly slow page load times...if it doesn't crash first. Works fine on my Windows PCs. All of em. Go Figure. | |
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| | | | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 10:51 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeExactly, that is because Adobe puts in the effort. For OS X, they don't. But even on my Windows boxes, Flash is a slow resource hog, it just doesn't crash. | |
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| | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
to Z80A
As a publicly-traded company where profit is king, do you really think Adobe is just being "lazy and putting a half-assed effort" into the OSX player? Isn't that kinda...shooting their proverbial foot? Flash is the premiere technology at Adobe, no other product gets the attention or resources Flash does. Why would they possibly be putting in a half-assed effort?
OR is it more plausible that Apple is wary of Flash (for aforementioned reasons) and is not providing the assistance (API documention, etc) Adobe needs to optimize the Flash Player for Apple?
Just from a common-sense perspective, which seems more likely?
If Silverlight is OSX stable, great! Perhaps because Apple provided them the assistance they needed? I don't know...but can certainly see where Apple would do so in one case and not the other. KM | |
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| | | | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 2:39 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeEvidently flash on OS X isn't a big profit generator or they wouldn't be putting in the half assed effort. Evidently they think their bloated crash happy port is 'good enough'.
Apple would support flash if it didn't generate over 1/2 their crash reports.
If MS can get their S together, Adobe can. They are just lazy and I suppose they think they don't have to. | |
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| | | | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD
1 recommendation |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 9:33 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeI don't understand what your perspective is based on.
Flash Player doesn't generate any profit at all. It's free. Adobe makes money selling tools. The more machines Flash runs on, the more demand for the tool, the more money they make. It simply makes no sense for them to not be tackling the player as aggressively as possible.
Maybe what they have is the best they can do without assistance and detailed API spec from Apple. Again, does MS have information Adobe doesn't have? I don't know...but that would certainly seem more likely.
Maybe Apple likes that "half their crash reports' are generated by Flash as it helps feed their own propaganda.
Why are you convinced Adobe is so clearly in the wrong here? KM | |
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| | | | | | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 2 edits |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 10:36 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freesaid by KoolMoe:Why are you convinced Adobe is so clearly in the wrong here? KM Because their OS X client sucks goat ass. Everyone else seems to be able to make apps that don't generate more than 1/2 of all crash reports Apple gets. Adobe evidently think their crash happy bloated POS is 'good enough'. News to Adobe, it's not and I for one am glad that Apple is putting its foot down. Perhaps if Adobe doesn't want to be the next RealNetworks and have their crashhappy bloatware replaced by Silverlight, HTML5 and other far superior and reliable competitors they will get their shit together. Flash on OS X sucks and the only one to blame for that is Adobe. | |
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| | | | | | | | KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2010-Feb-16 10:59 pm
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freeJust the well-balanced and insightful reply I was hoping for.
We'll see. Enjoy your Mac! KM | |
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| | | | | | | | | Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-17 7:38 am
Re: If Apple supported Flash; get most shows for freesaid by KoolMoe:We'll see. Enjoy your Mac! KM Thanks to clicktoflash and flashblock, I certainly do. | |
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| KoolMoeAw Man Premium Member join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD
1 recommendation |
to FFH5
Old thread, old 'conversation', but thought this was interesting and applicable. » www.streaminglearningcen ··· ds-.htmlProbably not going to change any minds, but somewhat explains why the 'client sucks goat-ass' and mitigates some misconceptions... KM | |
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i like thisin a world where every content provider is jacking up prices, it's nice to see someone actually trying to make things affordable.
their devices may cost more but they also do more and do it better.
cant wait till i get out of this contract so i can get an iphone.
and i agree, flash is crap, and most devices don't propperly support it or don't support it at all. | |
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Metatron2008You're it Premium Member join:2008-09-02 united state |
All Apple has to do is say BarkAnd their users bark.
Flash has programs as good and better then stuff you get in the apple store, which is the only reason Apple blocks flash. Wouldn't want decreased revenue from the app store would they? | |
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| Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 12:35 pm
Re: All Apple has to do is say BarkApple doesn't deploy flash because Adobe Flash port for OS X is a crash happy disaster. If Adobe could get their S together, Flash would be on Apple devices. | |
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| eco Premium Member join:2001-11-28 Wilmington, DE |
to Metatron2008
Right, this makes sense considering most apps in the App store are free or $0.99... | |
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bad timing..Apple was at the right place & time with the fall of Napster to build a marketplace.. but they are too late to make any headway with video (and there are plenty of content owners who don't play nice with digital distribution). Add to that the complexity of asymmetrical broadband deployment across the USA and we see why Apple won't gain any more traction than they already have with their (failed & low market share) ventures into video products & services. | |
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Re: bad timing..said by tmc8080:Apple was at the right place & time with the fall of Napster to build a marketplace.. but they are too late to make any headway with video (and there are plenty of content owners who don't play nice with digital distribution). Add to that the complexity of asymmetrical broadband deployment across the USA and we see why Apple won't gain any more traction than they already have with their (failed & low market share) ventures into video products & services. Actually at 99c I think they'll have a great chance to make headway. Assymetrical broadband deployment increases the usefulness of server centric download schemes. | |
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wvcaver Premium Member join:2005-04-17 Millersburg, OH |
wvcaver
Premium Member
2010-Feb-15 3:41 pm
lower your price ?I think Apple should also lower there prices ! | |
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Good to see them lowering the price....I havestayed away from downloading such shows due to their prices which are too high for my liking.
I may download a few if that low price sticks | |
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