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Comcast Says No Thanks to Metered Billing
Though the Tools Are There Should They Ever Decide to
Speaking at a Barclays Capital conference this week, Comcast CFO Mike Angelaki stated that charging overages is not on Comcast's radar, and that their 250GB cap on all tiers is working fine to help manage the company's heaviest users. "First of all, be clear, we're not adopting it," says Angelaki. "We've deployed the instrumentation that people need to ... gauge how much they're using, and if we ever wanted to go to usage-based billing or consumption-based billing, we could possibly do that." Like Verizon, who recently stated they don't see a need for caps or overages, Comcast is careful to leave the door open to the possibility. To be clear, AT&T has not shown they suffer enough congestion on even their FTTN or DSL lines to warrant caps and overages, though Comcast and Verizon have heavily invested in DOCSIS 3.0 and FTTH respectively -- making congestion as a justification for pricey overages even more flimsy. "I don't know why we would disrupt a pretty good run we're having right now," says Comcast.
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EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

Premium Member

Tools installed?

I give them 1-2 more quarters before they monetize further.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom

Member

Re: Tools installed?

To protect their content business they would probably need to charge $10/GB, which would look bad. Better just to offer a crippled connection.
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678

Member

so after 250gb it cut off or forced to a higher business

so after 250gb it cut off or forced to a higher cost business plan that may even make you pay alot more on cable tv side + may even loss of use of a cable card box if foreced to business or at the very least lost of Triple Play discounts.

business plans are uncapped or have a much higher cap.

Makes other systems pay like $10 for 50GB sound better.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

1 recommendation

DarkLogix

Premium Member

Re: so after 250gb it cut off or forced to a higher business

come on people its a soft cap and your not likely to run afoul with it

jbsharpeii
AMD
join:2001-12-22
Chesterfield, VA

jbsharpeii to Joe12345678

Member

to Joe12345678
its no big deal really, I've gone as much as 20gb over the cap and comcast hasn't complained to me about it. I'm thinking its the 500gb plus users or so that get notices/kicked.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Ha! I didn't know companies were avoiding unkept promises

It used to be, they'd say something like "Unlimited forever!" and then change their mind when they felt like it. I guess they realize some customers have memories longer than 3 months.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ha! I didn't know companies were avoiding unkept promises

said by axus:

It used to be, they'd say something like "Unlimited forever!" and then change their mind when they felt like it. I guess they realize some customers have memories longer than 3 months.

Never ONCE did they say "unlimited forever"... don't weasel out of that one either because you used quotes to help your sensationalism.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Well how about that...

Comcast's congestion claims are a blatant lie. I've said this over and over to the true believers in caps.

What's the Congestion Management System for again Comcast? Just checking...

I bet you're having a good run.
Your costs are falling and the cap stays the same.

Not fooling me...

jadebangle
Premium Member
join:2007-05-22
00000

jadebangle

Premium Member

Re: Well how about that...

its a marketing ploy to trick us to use less bandwidth then we like to..
you know bw is not water or electricity that can be metered
what next?
meter sunlight?
meter oxygen?
ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahha
easy profits
scam
we're not paying more then necessary for a connection to the internet!

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Residential internet bandwidth is an oversold, shared resource and thus limited.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Comcast crying poverty?

Oh please....

A few 250GB+ users can bring it down? Really?
If so, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Docsis 3 and caps, with no evidence that congestion is an issue, and with a congestion management system on top of that... What a joke.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 recommendation

fifty nine

Member

Re: Well how about that...

No, they are not crying poverty.

They are running a BUSINESS and not a charity or public service.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Correction, they are a MONOPOLY (sometimes an OLIGOPOLY), not a business, charity or public service. I understand what you are trying to say but there's not much competition in these spaces and until there is, they aren't running business. A business cannot one day decide that 10% profit isn't enough and raise rates to make 11%. If they did, competitors would steal business. Most customers have very little recourse if they don't like the cost or service provided by these large incumbents.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: Well how about that...

said by rradina:

Correction, they are a MONOPOLY (sometimes an OLIGOPOLY), not a business, charity or public service. I understand what you are trying to say but there's not much competition in these spaces and until there is, they aren't running business. A business cannot one day decide that 10% profit isn't enough and raise rates to make 11%. If they did, competitors would steal business. Most customers have very little recourse if they don't like the cost or service provided by these large incumbents.

Not quite. The wireless industry is more of a Oligopoly.

As for an ISP, there's other choices out there so technically it's not a "monopoly". Just change providers.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

Uncle Paul

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Change providers to the only other provider that provides broadband internet service (of course it only offers service up to 3mb). So it's not like they're really competing is it?

C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium Member
join:2009-01-17
00000

C_Chipperson

Premium Member

Re: Well how about that...

Oh, Uncle Paul

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

Uncle Paul

Member

Re: Well how about that...

said by C_Chipperson:

Oh, Uncle Paul

Ted! My sweet boy, how's the Emporium?
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to SimbaSeven

Member

to SimbaSeven
Am I to understand that you believe the wireless industry has less competition than consumer broadband?

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: Well how about that...

said by rradina:

Am I to understand that you believe the wireless industry has less competition than consumer broadband?

Yep.. Because the wireless companies are using either CDMA, GSM, or LTE Technology. Along with at&t and Verizon woofing down other companies, there isn't much for competition anymore.

As for Cable/DSL, you have 1 single coaxial cable and/or a copper pair (usually 2 lines) going to your house. You don't see 4 coaxial lines and 8 pairs of copper, do ya? I also doubt you can switch providers on the coaxial or copper line. You are stuck with whoever owns that physical cable.

I guess it could apply to whoever owns the frequency license when it applies to wireless.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Well how about that...

I'm not following your reasoning. It sounds like you don't think either industry has competition but you also don't seem to be making any case as to why wireless has LESS competition than consumer broadband.

You could be saying that the differing wireless schemes require the consumer to buy new hardware to switch but isn't the same true of switching from coax to copper? There's also probably a 50% chance the copper doesn't support a high speed network option due to wire length, load coils and a variety of other reasons that reduce the run's bandwidth. To a much lesser extent, there's also no guarantee the coax supports it either.

From my perspective, I have at least four wireless cellular carriers, not counting the various pay-as-you-go plans or T-Mobile but I have only one Internet option.
rradina

rradina to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
So are all of the utilities but it costs them significantly more to run at full capacity vs. half capacity and metering makes sense. It doesn't cost the cable/FTTH/DSL plant more to run at half capacity vs. full capacity.

heat84
DSLR Influencer
join:2004-03-11
Delray Beach, FL

1 recommendation

heat84 to jadebangle

Member

to jadebangle
said by jadebangle:

what next?
meter sunlight?
meter oxygen?
ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahha



SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo to IPPlanMan

MVM

to IPPlanMan
said by IPPlanMan:

Comcast's congestion claims are a blatant lie.

Do you have a link to where Comcast makes reference to congestion?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 edit

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Have your pick...
»customer.comcast.com/Pag ··· nagement

Here's my favorite line of doublespeak...
»customer.comcast.com/Pag ··· 50relate

The caps don't address congestion, but rather some amorphous concept called excessive use... So if the congestion management system is meant to prevent congestion and it does by giving everyone a fair share of the network, the caps do what exactly?

Comcast wants us to pay for internet, but not actually use it.
Big surprise there.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: Well how about that...

said by IPPlanMan:

»customer.comcast.com/Pag ··· 50relate

The caps don't address congestion, but rather some amorphous concept called excessive use... So if the congestion management system is meant to prevent congestion and it does by giving everyone a fair share of the network, the caps do what exactly?

That's specifically what I was getting at. The congestion management system handles point-in-time unexpected demand, it's not related to the cap.

The cap ties to the business model. In an oversubscribed model where a reasonable level of performance is expected, capacity needs to be provisioned with some margin in excess of demand. Total consumption increases the average utilization on any given network segment, and capacity needs to be augmented as average utilization increases.
said by IPPlanMan:

Comcast wants us to pay for internet, but not actually use it.

No, they want you to pay for the Internet capacity you're using. That's why there are options to buy your way out of the 250GB cap. The standard HSI offering is $44.95/mo, but you can get a capless product at the same speed for $59.95/mo.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 edit

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

And Fios is capless because.... (please finish that sentence)

Comcast is capped because.... (finish this one too)

Comcast is making this stuff about excessive use up. Somehow Verizon Fios can handle the usage level (do not read in congestion) on Fios and offer the product at a similar price. Verizon's DSL is also capless, for less than what Comcast charges...

The cap doesn't address anything having to do with congestion.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: Well how about that...

said by IPPlanMan:

And Fios is capless because.... (please finish that sentence)

the deployed infrastructure currently has capacity vastly ahead of current demand.
said by IPPlanMan:

Comcast is capped because.... (finish this one too)

the capacity, as provisioned today, is much tighter than with FiOS. I put together the numbers a while ago here: »Re: [Caps] the dreaded call - 1,817G

Comcast can absolutely scale to where Verizon is at today, but using existing orderable DOCSIS hardware it would easy have a $11+bn price tag to get there.

Even on a 5 year amortization schedule, across 17 million HSI subscribers that works out to $11/mo just in CMTS costs alone. (not including labor, nodes, cabling, etc)
said by IPPlanMan:

The cap doesn't address anything having to do with congestion.

The cap has to do with how much capacity they are building out in relation to revenue.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

So why is Verizon DSL also uncapped?

Relation to revenue? That principle would apply to Verizon too right?

Somehow Verizon makes it work....

If there's no congestion problem, then what is the excessive use problem here?

When you get down to it, it's about preventing Netflix and iTunes/Apple TV from gaining a foothold.
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Why do you bother asking questions? You don't care what the answer or reason is. You think you are trying to make a point, but the only point you are making is that you don't have the foggiest idea how to run a business.

DSL is a completely different product than Cable TV Coax. DSL runs on a wire that was paid for a decade ago. The only upgrade costs are at the CO (also paid for) which are widely spaced and typically serve around 50K customers while the cable node serves 1500. The only costs to the Telco DSL provider are the cost of the ADSL card, the provisioning and the backhaul. Comcast must factor in the capital costs of rebuilding their entire network over the last decade (with a number of regions still needing upgrades). In addition Comcast laid all new fiber optics to all it's nodes and rebuilt from the node to the home in most markets. There are huge capital costs involved. The telco provider paid about $1200 bucks for that ADSL card that serves 4-6 homes. They've probably replaced it twice and they likely bought new backhaul systems on their fiber to upgrade the capacity to the CO.

Do I think that will help you understand the difference? No, because you are an ideologue that doesn't care what reality is.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

An ideologue? Really? Spare me....

If that's the approach you're taking, when will Comcast's network pay for itself?

Also, be sure to let me know when that 250GB cap increases...It's been at the same level since October 2008....

Verizon Fios is a newly built out FTTH network... No cap on that.... Care to explain why?

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo to IPPlanMan

MVM

to IPPlanMan
said by IPPlanMan:

So why is Verizon DSL also uncapped?

What's the average Verizon DSL link rate? 3mbps?

Not everyone can get 7mbps speeds due to distance.
said by IPPlanMan:

If there's no congestion problem, then what is the excessive use problem here?

You don't wait until you're facing massive congestion to upgrade capacity. Times when your network is congested should be the exception, not the rule, and congestion management systems are designed to deal with that event.

There is no magic in networking. Congestion management systems try to deliver "fairness" by throttling back connections of the heaviest users of the network. When that system has to kick in, there is always someone who loses.

HappyAnarchy
@iauq.com

HappyAnarchy to IPPlanMan

Anon

to IPPlanMan
said by IPPlanMan:

Comcast wants us to pay for internet, but not actually use it.
Big surprise there.

Your sounding crazy conspiracy theory now. It makes it really hard to make coherent, logical points with concerns about caps and overages when you have people making us look bad by saying crazy things like this.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Well how about that...

Are you serious?
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz to HappyAnarchy

Member

to HappyAnarchy
Except he is right. Why customer would CC like more:

a) Me, using 249 GB/mo, streaming, VPN

b) grandma, using 500 MB/mo, checking email and sending pics of her dog to her friends

?
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

DOCSIS is shared

DOCSIS is shared, so there's a justification for capping, unlike DSL or FTTH. However, I think their cut-off policy is just dumb, they should throttle at 250GB, and make the business class plans with unlimited a more clear option for heavy users. That way the heavy users pay, and everyone is happy.

••••••••

AlexNYC
join:2001-06-02
Edwards, CO

AlexNYC

Member

Kudos

Kudos to Comcast. They have managed to turn me around from an opponent to a proponent. Now if they can only do something about those constant price hikes ...

••••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

top markets should get $ AFFORDABLE $ 50mbit by 2012

Comcast could shove out an affordable 50 megabit tier for under $65 a month the way cablevision did... the modems have been around for a few years already. Maybe next year they'll stop making 2.0 modems and start ramping up production of 3.0 modems. Right now AT&T is doing nothing to push them but it should be the cable companies such as comcast pushing AT&T to invest more money in wireline. you the customer should be demanding this or nothing will change.

••••••••

NOLuckChuck
@teksavvy.com

NOLuckChuck

Anon

Why would anyone stay with AT&T?

AT&T certainly won't have to worry about congestion ever when they have no subscribers. Only a blithering idiot would stay with a company with no speed an almost extinct dsl over copper network and rip-off overuse fees. You'd have to look in the mirror give yourself a good head shake and start repeating i hate money, i love the slowest speeds possible in America.

jbsharpeii
AMD
join:2001-12-22
Chesterfield, VA

jbsharpeii

Member

so

Its all in how much data you are really using... I've gone almost 20gb over the cab without so much as a letter or anything..