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DirecTV Co-Owner John Malone Trash Talks FiOS
'Returns on FiOS are atrociously bad...'

So-called "media mogul" John Malone has been busy -- recently giving up most of his voting control of (and Chairman position at) DirecTV to meet federal media ownership regulations, after being outbid recently by Cablevision when he tried to acquire Bresnan Communications. He's also been busily trash-talking Verizon FiOS, telling attendees at a Liberty Global meeting last week that Verizon's essentially doomed to failure, and that despite spending $24 billion on upgrading their copper infrastructure, Verizon's "returns on FiOS are atrociously bad:"

quote:
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He went on to suggest Verizon may have had a wayward strategy when it launched its own TV service to challenge cable companies: "The most dangerous thing in business is an irrational rich competitor, so don't ever discount that somebody can do things for non-financial reasons."...."I've never seen overbuilds work ... it always ends up badly," he said, referring to his decades in the cable business.
While Verizon's not seeing quite the sign up level they'd probably like on FiOS, things certainly aren't "atrociously bad." The company added 812,000 FiOS TV customers over the last year and served 3.62 million FiOS customers as of March 10. While the next two decades will tell if investing in TV will pay off -- investing in fiber to the home is absolutely the right move; the company offering speeds most Malone properties couldn't dream of.

Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg has stated he'd like to see adoption rates in deployed markets reach 40% (a tall order) -- so Verizon's essentially frozen expansion of new FiOS builds outside of places where they have signed TV franchise obligations. As we noted this morning Verizon has also now stopped penalizing users who don't want long term contracts and hopes that no ETF and no contract will help convince more cable and satellite customers to switch.
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Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

1 edit

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

STFU

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a flying leap off the Grand Canyon, Johnny boy.

I'm surprised AT&T hasn't snapped him up yet.

Mchart
First There.
join:2004-01-21
Kaneohe, HI

1 edit

Mchart

Member

Public Service Announcement

The man pictured more then likely is a pedo-phile.

That is all.

PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

PapaMidnight

Member

Re: Public Service Announcement

Is it wrong that I chuckled a bit at the sight of this?
gigante
Premium Member
join:2000-06-30
Anchorage, AK

gigante

Premium Member

Re: Public Service Announcement

Yes. McHart should know the difference between "then" and "than".

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA

1 recommendation

spewak

Premium Member

Isn't he...

Mark Cuban's brother? He talks the same sheise! Bad mouth the competition when the competition kicks your ass on a daily basis! Nice
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

1 recommendation

Bob61571

Member

Malone has been in the cable business

so long, that a cable monopoly is his real comfort zone.

When he looks at overbuilders(as he must feel Verizon FiOS/AT&T U-Verse/DirecTV/Dish Network all are), he must feel the tough challenge of competition.

In other words, he's afraid to compete. He'd rather be a monopolist,and control everything.

By the way, has someone calculated the ROI for all these pay TV alternatives, to see if he's right? I would like to see all the major Pay TV services compared in this way.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Malone has been in the cable business

said by Bob61571:

When he looks at overbuilders(as he must feel Verizon FiOS/AT&T U-Verse/DirecTV/Dish Network all are), he must feel the tough challenge of competition.{{He owned DirecTV. I doubt he saw them as an overbuilder.}}

By the way, has someone calculated the ROI for all these pay TV alternatives, to see if he's right? I would like to see all the major Pay TV services compared in this way.
That is a good question. Everyone talks about Fios capabilities & possibilities. But did they meet the ROI they chose before going forward? And what was the timeline they chose for determining success or failure from an investment point of view? With talk about Seidenberg going out the door soon, I suspect that his Board of Directors feels he didn't meet the financial goals that he promised when they gave him the go-ahead for Fios.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

1 recommendation

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: Malone has been in the cable business

I know I KNOW this is a shitty attitude.

I really don't care. I've got that nice, fat, fiber pipe coming into my house. Just like it's Verizon's job to make money, it's not my job to care if their shareholders take it in the seat.

Unless they come to my house and rip the ONT out, I couldn't give a crap....
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Malone has been in the cable business

you know what the problem with Shareholders is, they expect rapid ROI vs the more sensible long term ROI. i have a feeling that FTTH has a lower cost long term when talking field work required to keep it delivering acceptable service levels.
russotto
join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

russotto to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

With talk about Seidenberg going out the door soon, I suspect that his Board of Directors feels he didn't meet the financial goals that he promised when they gave him the go-ahead for Fios.
Wonder if that has anything to do with, you know, could it be... THE RECESSION????
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 recommendation

Sammer to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

With talk about Seidenberg going out the door soon, I suspect that his Board of Directors feels he didn't meet the financial goals that he promised when they gave him the go-ahead for Fios.
Did you actually read the last article you linked to?

"Ivan in an investor call suggested one reason they may be cutting their investment: the broadband plan and stimulus are reducing company spending. So Seidenberg suggested he might ask for government money, and the broadband plan has many "incentives" for him to spend less company money. Blair should take this as a signal to yank any offers to pay telcos to upgrade broadband where it already is available from cablecos or others. Smelling government money, they are cutting back their own investment and then demanding the government pay them instead. 2009 was almost certainly the worst year in a decade for expanding broadband in the U.S. Company after company canceled firm plans waiting for the government to pay them for what they intended to do without subsidy."

telcotech
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium Member
join:2004-09-02
united state

1 recommendation

telcotech

Premium Member

Hmm..

DirecTV is partnered with Verizon as the video component of Verizon "double & triple play" packages in places that FiOS isn't. I wonder if Mr. Malone has had a "look-see" at who is helping to drive customers to his company. To me, it doesn't seem like a very smart business decision to trash talk a partner like this - but what do I know; I'm just a workin' stiff.
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

Re: Hmm..

Malone is in a bizarre/messy situation.
Long time major US cable exec with his fingers in both content and distribution.

Involved in DirecTV, and wants to get back into cable TV.

DirecTV is both a competitor, and a partner, with Verizon and AT&T, and other US telcos(in many areas) where they bundle DirecTV as their video product.
Firefly2003
join:2010-02-14

Firefly2003

Member

What?

What does his company provide for internet? None that I know of...why the smack talk?

LightS
Premium Member
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

1 recommendation

LightS

Premium Member

Really?

He gets outbid, loses most of his voting control.... so he opens up his mouth, and spews garbage about other companies arbitrarily, bashing them, trying to get public assistance.

It seems to me as if he's a sore loser, who needs a reality check and needs to accept the fact that competition is the fuel that drives everything forward, instead of arbitrarily attacking anybody that expresses a sense of innovation and futureproofing their buildouts.
smith120
join:2010-06-23
Green Cove Springs, FL

smith120

Member

smart card

Does anyone know where I can find really hardcore technical information about smart cards?. I'm doing a report for the company I'm working for so it's kinda important.
------------
smith
smart card

kmb40
join:2004-08-02
Fort Washington, MD

kmb40

Member

This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

This is the beginning or Verizon's exit from ISP services.

I predicted 2 years ago that Verizon will become a wireless broadband company offering other services in limited availability to blue chip business customers and profitable regions only.

The new age of tech doesn't fit the belhead model of slow reactionary strategies. The company simply cant adjust to this era quick enough in its current structure.

Cable companies and maybe community owned regional start up ISPs will purchase and or build out their own fiber infrastructures and Verizon will sit on the much more profitable wireless and data services to specific businesses and or regions.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

Re: This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

LOL
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

don't laugh. it could happen. It's cheaper to maintain a complete wireless network such as their LTE dream than maintain miles and miles of Fiber for the FiOS network and the COs where they're still at and all that copper.

It would be the xLEC's dream to drop the copper and move to all wireless and save the last mile maintance $$$$ and reinvest in the new network to expand and upgrade it.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

Re: This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

I seriously doubt it. FTTH is the future of superfast broadband and IPTV and other services (Security etc)

Things wireless spectrum just can't do. (Due to too many people/not enough spectrum.) Verizon is better positioned then most to profit from this due to their early moves.

I just don't see it happening.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

FTTH is not the future for rural areas. That is more than half of VZ's old foot print and a major chunk of ATT's and Qwest's footprint. You can move full IP services over that network and do so without a problem. Hell ATT does it on DSL. And they'd be the ones to be able to do it on Wireless why? They claim users only want a max of 6megs down so why not do it over wireless and cut out the lastmile wire? I don't see spectrum being a problem. Clearwire has plenty to build out their network without a problem and so does TMO on AWS. The thing is everyone wants the 700 network and nobody is going to get that except a handful of companies so they need to start buying spectrum in higher frequencies and deal with it at that.

As far as VZ profiting first? I don't see that happening. They have a HUGE problem getting people to sign up for FiOS and are still operating two networks; thus the money they're making on FiOS is going to cover the copper network they'll still own where they're going to keep serving. They won't profit for years and years to come. At least 10. Now if you toss in the MSOs they'd be the first to profit as they have fiber already in the neighborhoods and can move out the Coax faster than VZ could expand that FiOS network.

VZ only made the move early due to they wanted to kick off all the resellers of Voice and Data and no look back to deal with them. And they only did so because they bought the FCC along with ATT to agree not to force line sharing on that new network. Once you convert to U-Verse or FiOS you're stuck with them unless you sign up for cable. You'll never see anything else.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

Re: This is the begining or Verizons exit from ISP services

AT&T and Verizon both are dumping rural areas. AT&T Can't do squat on their DSL. Hell they're having to bond together two lines just to get U-Verse to live up to it's promises. It's a shortcut that's already tapped out. It's not the technology of the future. Wireless doesn't have the bandwidth. The biggest obstacle to FIOS is they're charging too much for it and have limited it's deployment. FTTH is still the future in the cities. In the rural areas, where there are less people for the spectrum, wireless makes a whole lot more sense.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo to hottboiinnc4

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to hottboiinnc4
I should probably be quiet, but seriously, at some point, Verizon is just going to start putting in mini-cheapo-POTS-only ONTs as low cost or "free" replacements to copper POTS service. Whatever incentives they want to offer would probably work, back and forth -- $50 for the ONT for $5 off of service for 2 years, or $5 more for service forever with a one-time $50 credit, or who knows what (opt-in to start with). Or, they might even put in full ONTs, and only hook up the POTS. "You can add TV for a low cost!"

In addition to the above idea, or instead of it, Verizon can do the following ideas:

If this is just for those darned pesky POTS-only customers of many stripes, then Verizon can just install a special ONT every 5 to 10 or so homes, and it would be a mini LTE cell, and Verizon would just replace the copper phones with LTE-battery-backed-up POTS phones for the other 3 to 6 homes within range that only get POTS.

Or, since Verizon Wireless is installing LTE in so many places anyway, Verizon can partner with Verizon Wireless to offer a POTS-like-VOIP-wireless thing, similar to Comcast's CDV, but via LTE.

They can do this as the copper fades and rots, each 611, one house at a time. Or they could take a walk down each block going house to house. Or both.

They can start doing this sooner or later. Today, or years from now.

There's all sorts of ways Verizon can slowly disburse with their copper network.

At some point, the recycling crews would get out there and start pulling off the cables (carefully), if for no other reason to not let thieves do so destructively (causing damage to other services connected). They'd probably make as much in recycling as they'd spend to harvest the copper off the poles.

Every other block of homes would have a customer who is wise to the rules who wants to keep their copper for one reason or another. Verizon would have a tough sell with them. But ultimately, there are ways to deal with that: they can install high quality wide-spectrum analog repeat/converter/modems on some ONTs and deliver their copper that way (the DSL2/POTS/alarm/whatever would still work if the modems were good enough to handle those ranges); they can buy them out somehow (1 year free this or that, 2 years free this or that); they can get the rules changed; they can replace big old copper runs with smaller copper runs (expensive, but would handle these fringe cases). This way they could "clean up" various neighborhoods and be rid of that secondary (older) copper infrastructure maintenance.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

This is typical.....

This is nothing more than some sort of talking head giving out an opinion that will benefit whomever is paying him.

castsucks
@sbcglobal.net

castsucks

Anon

FIOS has the high per box rent fees that cable has D* does n

FIOS has the high per box rent fees that cable has D* does not.

D* wants $5 /m per box

FIOS $16-$20 per box for HD DVR and about $8 - $10 per HD box.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: FIOS has the high per box rent fees that cable has D* does n

My HD boxes are $5.99 a month

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

Verizon . . . you gotta build it before they come

quote:
While Verizon's not seeing quite the sign up level they'd probably like on FiOS, things certainly aren't "atrociously bad."
It's no damn wonder Verizon isn't seeing high sign up levels when they essentially cherry pick areas of the country they will offer FiOS.

Baltimore Wants To Know Why They Aren't Worthy Of FiOS

I'd LOVE to drop Comcast for Verizon FiOs. . . but hell . . . they don't even offer DSL where I'm at.

Pack sand Verizon. you're arrogance is exactly why I left your phone service & went to Vonage.

PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

1 edit

PapaMidnight

Member

Re: Verizon . . . you gotta build it before they come

With you on that one. I'm actually in Baltimore County and have seen my street appear on their half-assed build out list 4 times since December 2007 (December 2007, January 2010, March 2010, and April 2010). The list wasn't even put up for May and we haven't appeared on it for June. We have, however, not had a single blade of grass disturbed, nor a single piece of gravel on the road. In other words, where the hell are you Verizon? Or should I make an appearance at the next council meeting to inquiry as to why Verizon is 3 months - and counting - in violation of it's Franchise agreement to have my area wired within 3 years from the date of the agreement?

(I know Verizon representatives more likely than not do not even browse these comments, let alone this website. Just venting.)

Edit: With you in the sense of Verizon cherry picking. I've observed it with each time they put out a construction listing for Maryland. But I would not go to Vonage. I'll keep my landline / cellphone. Comcast's network is FAR to unreliable for me to even consider going to the VoIP route.

NJBoricua75
Born And Raised
join:2000-09-13
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit

NJBoricua75 to newview

Member

to newview
said by newview:

quote:
While Verizon's not seeing quite the sign up level they'd probably like on FiOS, things certainly aren't "atrociously bad."
It's no damn wonder Verizon isn't seeing high sign up levels when they essentially cherry pick areas of the country they will offer FiOS.

Baltimore Wants To Know Why They Aren't Worthy Of FiOS

I'd LOVE to drop Comcast for Verizon FiOs. . . but hell . . . they don't even offer DSL where I'm at.

Pack sand Verizon. you're arrogance is exactly why I left your phone service & went to Vonage.
Exactly. Thank you. Good for you man. F**k Verizon!!! To those of you who still are using Verizon's landline and DSL services, ditch them immediately. If Verizon feels you aren't worthy of fios then they aren't worthy of having you as a customer for any kind of service - period! If you have cable, switch to them immediately. If there's Clearwire WiMAX in your hood, get that and DirecTV or Dish Network. I prefer Direct but whatever, you have options. Don't cater to a company who considers you second class citizens and thinks they know what's best for you.

Malone actually has a point here. Verizon is very arrogant and service isn't available in places that matter. They're not getting their $hit together with deploying fios to buildings and that's what most of New York City is made up of. Competition? What competition? I would respect Verizon more and take them more seriously if they stopped their cherry picking B.S. and please dont give me that they put fios in my area and it's ghetto. Please, it's just like when companies hire one black person. They're just a token to get people to stop b*tching.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned) to newview

Member

to newview
said by newview:

quote:
While Verizon's not seeing quite the sign up level they'd probably like on FiOS, things certainly aren't "atrociously bad."
It's no damn wonder Verizon isn't seeing high sign up levels when they essentially cherry pick areas of the country they will offer FiOS.

Baltimore Wants To Know Why They Aren't Worthy Of FiOS

I'd LOVE to drop Comcast for Verizon FiOs. . . but hell . . . they don't even offer DSL where I'm at.

Pack sand Verizon. you're arrogance is exactly why I left your phone service & went to Vonage.
Verizon is not going into the city for more than a few reasons.

First off, the city has a VERY bad reputation for customers who do not pay, steal the boxes and disappear when the bill comes due. I, right now, am dealing with a former tenant of my rental property that up and left with no forwarding address and Comcast is after them for the final bill and equipment.

Second, the city is in TERRIBLE financial shape and they just passed a "telecommunications tax" increase to make a few extra dollars.
quote:
Telecommunications Tax—the proposal increases the monthly telecommunication excise tax by 50 cents from $3.50 to $4.00 per line, and Centrex from 35 cents to 40 cents. The broad based tax is paid by residents, businesses and nonprofits and will generate $3.74 million for the general fund in FY2011.
»www.baltimorecity.gov/Of ··· lan.aspx

They also went after Vonage to tax them too.

»findarticles.com/p/artic ··· 7073758/

Baltimore City brought this on themselves and they can cry all they want but the city government is corrupt and for sale for just a few gift cards. Even Comcast didn't offer cable modem service until just a few years ago when everyone else had it.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

1 edit

Z80A

Premium Member

How is that DirecTV DSL going?

Just wondering...
ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

ShellMMG

Member

Re: How is that DirecTV DSL going?

It's called Hughesnet. :PPPPPPPPPPP

No more satellite internet for me, no way, no how. I am NOT babysitting another *@(&#$ FAP meter. Ever. I'll go without internet if there's a stupid low cap or throttle. It's not worth it when I can drink coffee at Wendy's and get service a few days a week.

We're thinking about canning our DirecTV service at the end of the summer. We've been a customer 14 years, and we're watching less and less TV because there's more of nothing on. Once the new HDTV antenna goes on the roof, the little grey dish is coming down.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to Z80A

Premium Member

to Z80A
That was well before Malone's time. That was even before Murdoch!
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

qworster

Member

Interesting....

....especially when you consider that Verizon probably sells more DirecTv then they sell FiOS.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

the satellite revolution,, RiP

Countdown until the satellite revolution finally dies its slow death. The wired and terrestrial wireless last miles will end up making satellite obsolete for most, if not all consumer grade services barring the obvious satellite gps networks.

10 years? 5?
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678

Member

Re: the satellite revolution,, RiP

said by tmc8080:

Countdown until the satellite revolution finally dies its slow death. The wired and terrestrial wireless last miles will end up making satellite obsolete for most, if not all consumer grade services barring the obvious satellite gps networks.

10 years? 5?
Not with comcast high box costs $8 per outlet and $16 per HD DVR.

and there over compressed HD.

Also there MLB EI, NBA LP, NHL CI HD suckes with like what a MAX of 2-4 games a day in HD (not all systems) VS most games in HD many with DUAL HD FEEDS on Directv.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike

Mod

of course fios returns are bad

After this huge investment the PL is negative.

Give it time.

In general what he said was technical entirely correct and is attempting to snag who people don't know how finance works. This FUDs for you.