  thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 8:42 am
On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.I personally think such below the line charges are bullshit and shouldn't be allowed. The only extra fees they should be able to charge are legitimate taxes. All other fees should be included in the actual rate.
But I also see why carriers continue to do this. Sure, it's a complete cash grab. But more power to them if they are able to get away with it. If a consumer doesn't like the extra fees they have the power to vote with their wallets. Telephone/cable/internet services are all unnecessary conveniences that people can and do live without every day. It may not be easy to give it up, but if you truly don't like the billing practices of a company you can surely switch providers or not use any provider. If enough people do so the companies will catch on and offer more customer friendly pricing. Too many people though think they MUST HAVE telephone/cable/internet and as a result the companies got us by the balls. | |
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Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by thegeek:All other fees should be included in the actual rate.
I couldn't agree more. It should actually be against the law to advertise one price, then include an assortment of bogus hidden fees. Taxes of course are the exception. | |
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| |  mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20 |
mackey
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 11:07 am
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by AnonPerson:said by thegeek:All other fees should be included in the actual rate.
I couldn't agree more. It should actually be against the law to advertise one price, then include an assortment of bogus hidden fees. Taxes of course are the exception. Why must we make an exception for taxes? The last time I got gas the advertised price was the price I paid... /M | |
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Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.I guess for me taxes are just a given. If you go to the store and buy product for 5.99, we all know it wont really cost 5.99 when you get to the register.
The only exception I can think of are gas stations, where 3.39(.9) is the actual price including taxes.
Now given the above scenario, it would not be OK to walk into the store and pick up an item for 5.99 only to find out they charge you a convenience fee of 3.99 for using their cash registers, or whatever excuse they decide to come up with for their extra charges. | |
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Tax
Anon
2011-Aug-25 8:27 am
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by AnonPerson:I guess for me taxes are just a given. If you go to the store and buy product for 5.99, we all know it wont really cost 5.99 when you get to the register.
It does in MT. No Sales Tax.  | |
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| |  SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA |
to AnonPerson
How about sending them a contract ammendment that allows you to bill them $5/mo for their bullshit. Then bill them. | |
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| |  Unit649I B U, Who U B?
Premium Member
join:2000-01-22
Stockton, CA |
to AnonPerson
Telcos and other similar companies have done this also. Called "fees" taxes.
Its funny. The government does the exact opposing thing, because they can't raise taxes most of the time without some kind of a vote of the people, so they raise fees on basic services they provide to their citizens instead.
If anything I'd say Frontier has learned from the best. Everyone does it. It would be better to just include it in the price, but this kind of stuff happens with all kinds of businesses. Look at car dealers who advertise cars cheap and put "1 at this price" in the smallest font they can to get you in the door.
Its the same as putting .99 on the end of everything. The scary thing? They have done studies and people would buy something for $19.99 but wouldn't if it was 20 even. | |
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1 recommendation |
to thegeek
How lame to state "vote with your wallet". In many cases, Frontier is the only option (besides satellite). I have a location that I manage where I would drop Frontier in a heartbeat, if I could. And the "must have" argument? How, exactly, should I get my data from Arizona to California...USPS and a floppy disk? | |
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| | thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 11:47 am
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.See the problem with your argument is that it is your choice to have the requirement of sending data from Arizona to California. It is your choice to need to have internet service. Internet/phone/cable are all WANTS not NEEDS. So yes, you could very easily vote with your wallet by not subscribing to their services, or the services or any competitor. | |
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| | |  KoolMoeAw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 12:45 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.That's a bit of a simplistic argument. Some people have home-based businesses...in which case such services certainly would be 'needs'.
And beyond that, with the growth of information distribution moving to the web, a fair argument for such services (especially phone) being a need for everyone can be made.
Got kids? Earthquake in the area? How do you know if kid is alright at school? Are they being sent home? How do you find that out as a stay-home mom without phone/internet/cable? | |
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| | | | thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 12:50 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.1. It's the person's choice to run a business from home. And it's they choice to have a business that relies on a connection. (A business probably wouldn't be very profitable without a phone, but that's not the argument here.)
2. The growth of information distribution on the web is man made. It is not necessary to live.
3. Get off your ass and go to the school perhaps? | |
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| | | | | KoolMoeAw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 1:09 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.Riiight. 1. A contractor can run his business from home...or rent office space and pay another set of bills... Sure, it's a choice. People can choose whether they want to eat food or not too...  2. True! Indoor plumbing isn't necessary to live...is it? Electricity? All old arguments but nonetheless valid, I think. I tend to agree internet is not a requirement, yet, but it's pretty important. Phone is pretty much a requirement though, hence 911 regulations, for instance. 3. Now that's just ridiculous. In the example, a stay-home mom isn't necessarily lazy - it may be a requirement of having to care for the children. One in school and an infant at home? Or what about a disabled person with kids? | |
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| | | | | | thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 1:34 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.You're totally missing the point. Too many people just choose to bitch and whine about these added costs but do nothing about them. Yes, it is a bit extreme to say that it is their choice because they could just go without the service. But that doesn't change the fact that it IS their choice.
There is nothing forcing the contractor to work from home.ou are not required to have a phone. The stay at home mom with an infant could take the infant with her.
I'm not suggesting I'm about to give up my phone or internet. But I'm also not whining about the costs of such services either. It'd be nice if it was cheaper, sure. But I feel the costs are reasonable. If they get to the point where I don't think so, I'll take action rather than anonymously cry about it on an online message board. | |
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| | | | | | | KoolMoeAw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 1:57 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.Oh, no, I get your point totally, it's just an easy generalized point to make. Such broad-brush statements just aren't an answer though for many people. Like saying 'all welfare recipients are deadbeats'...
I tend to agree with the overall point - don't like the service, go elsewhere...BUT sometimes there just really isn't an alternative...so the choice is to just go without the service entirely...which for many people...for whatever services...just isn't a functional option.
KM | |
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Brantford
Anon
2011-Aug-26 3:07 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by KoolMoe:Oh, no, I get your point totally, it's just an easy generalized point to make. Such broad-brush statements just aren't an answer though for many people. Like saying 'all welfare recipients are deadbeats'...
I tend to agree with the overall point - don't like the service, go elsewhere...BUT sometimes there just really isn't an alternative...so the choice is to just go without the service entirely...which for many people...for whatever services...just isn't a functional option.
KM
Voting with your wallet only makes sense if there is a viable alternative. I don't know what your situation is, but here in Canada, competition is minimal. What we have in telecom services is mostly crony capitalism where phone & cable companies pretend to (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) "compete" with one another with the government pretending to "regulate" them. After the politicians finish "regulating" these rapacious telecom companies, they can look forward to cushy and lucrative positions with the very companies they pretended to regulate. That is not a healthy competitive market. Recently I saw a cogent remark attributed to a woman who lived in Eastern Europe during Soviet times. She was quoted as saying that "Everything that the communists told us about communism was a lie, but everything they said about capitalism was true". That pretty much sums it up. | |
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to thegeek
said by thegeek:1. It's the person's choice to run a business from home. And it's they choice to have a business that relies on a connection. (A business probably wouldn't be very profitable without a phone, but that's not the argument here.)
2. The growth of information distribution on the web is man made. It is not necessary to live.
3. Get off your ass and go to the school perhaps?
what an ignorant statement. so your telling me that a person should run their business into the ground if they are unhappy with their telephone provider. you are overgeneralizing the word "choice" | |
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| | | | | | thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 5:06 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.no i'm saying that it's the person's choice to run a business from home. just like it is your choice to be ignorant and improperly read between the lines. no one is forcing them to run a business. no one is forcing them to have a phone line. | |
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Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by thegeek:no i'm saying that it's the person's choice to run a business from home. just like it is your choice to be ignorant and improperly read between the lines. no one is forcing them to run a business. no one is forcing them to have a phone line.
lol whatever you say buddy. I guess it's the peoples fault for operating businesses that need proper communications to operate successfully. shame on them for not voting with their wallet | |
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Brantford to thegeek
Anon
2011-Aug-26 3:10 pm
to thegeek
said by thegeek:no i'm saying that it's the person's choice to run a business from home. just like it is your choice to be ignorant and improperly read between the lines. no one is forcing them to run a business. no one is forcing them to have a phone line.
No-one forces them to eat or breathe either... | |
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to thegeek
I guess it's a choice because you can always move to another part of the country with another provider. You can pretty much say anything is a choice as long as you're not in prison where your choices are restricted by the government. But the common meaning of the word choice would be that you could choose another provider which just isn't the case for a lot of people. | |
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HappyAnarchy to thegeek
Anon
2011-Aug-24 1:28 pm
to thegeek
Sure if you are independently wealthy you can just live without cel, internet or what have you. Or if you happen to work in a job that doesn't require it. And if you have no particular desire to remain in contact with family or friends.
Lots of choice there. You can also choose not to use gasoline, or electricity as well.
Choice can easily be overstated. | |
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| | | nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27 |
to thegeek
said by thegeek:Internet/phone/cable are all WANTS not NEEDS. I completely disagree. TV might be a want, not a need, but phone and to a lesser degree internet are NEEDS in modern society. How exactly are you going to look for a job without a phone or email address? nobody is going to contact you if all your give them is a postal address. Or are you going to argue that jobs are optional too? Jobs is just one aspect. What happens when a family member has a medical emergency and you don't have a phone to call 911? What happens when you want to date a girl? are you going to be sending her snail mail suggesting you meet on Friday? sure- people worked and dated way before the internet or the phone - but that was in a time when it was NORMAL to communicate via letters, and it was normal for an employee to not have a phone. In this society no self-respecting employer is going to accept that you "choose" to not have a phone, nor will a girlfriend. The point is simple- if you only have one ISP in your area, they've got you by the balls. You don't have a choice. Either pay up - or move. Of course moving too is not always possible. | |
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| | | | thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 2:39 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.It's sad the number of people who'll not be able to survive if an apocalyptic event happens. Phones and internet sure make life easier, but they are no where near a requirement to live. | |
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| | | | | KoolMoeAw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
1 recommendation |
KoolMoe
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 2:58 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.  If such an apocalypse just affected phone, internet, and TV...I'm sure most folks would be able to handle it...at least after some initial withdraw...and some probably would indeed go completely nuts! But an 'apocalyptic event' would surely mean total loss of electric power, clean water supply, refridgeration/safe foods...and of course complete chaos...in which case, yes, it is sad how few people will likely survive it. Your brush is far to wide  | |
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| | | | | |  Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 3:34 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.I've got my bug out bag ready. | |
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Brantford to thegeek
Anon
2011-Aug-26 3:20 pm
to thegeek
said by thegeek:It's sad the number of people who'll not be able to survive if an apocalyptic event happens. Phones and internet sure make life easier, but they are no where near a requirement to live.
This is true. People who lived in caves were able to somehow survive without luxuries such as the wheel or the discovery of fire. Ooga ooga. | |
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to nitzan
With Lifeline type phone services, phone is a need in the government's eyes. TV, I guess could be a need, as there are super basic Lifeline-like services. I guess it comes down to how people perceive that $99/month smartphone vs. the actual government handouts. The govenment wants everyone to have a phone, but if you already pay for a phone yourself, you don't qualify for Lifeline. | |
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ARRIS SB6180
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Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by jason_m:With Lifeline type phone services, phone is a need in the government's eyes. TV, I guess could be a need, as there are super basic Lifeline-like services. I guess it comes down to how people perceive that $99/month smartphone vs. the actual government handouts. The govenment wants everyone to have a phone, but if you already pay for a phone yourself, you don't qualify for Lifeline.
not to nitpick, but i had lifeline when i had POTS, its up to the carrier if they accept lifeline or not and if they even qualify. mediacom phone service is VOIP and they dont deal with lifeline. i dont think any voip system qualifys. im not sure if you can get it for existing cell phone or not but i do know its just a credit applied to the bill (it was roughly a $10 credit on my landline) it didnt matter what other services i had on that landline the credit still applied. only reason i dont switch back is because of a few factors 1 being they could never find the static on my line, and 2 being i needed to make long distance calls to family. at the time they did not have that free cellphone thing going. all so, just so folks know, lifeline is for ONE line per house hold. so while i could save some cash by dropping cell phone service and getting one of those free cellphones, thats it, it would just be "me" not my mother and father who live with me and are all so disabled. (me and mother are legally blind, we use them to figure out where the heck we are and how to find places) my point here is, if those cell phone companies can provide a free phone, and free minutes. on basically $10 a month subsidy, just think of how much those of us that pay $60 - $100 (or more) each month are over paying. thats what really gets me.. | |
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to thegeek
I guess "GEEK" is being serious. I thought it was a joke...now I see he is just ignorant. | |
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| | Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA |
to gworkman
said by gworkman:USPS and a floppy disk? Well, thumb drive. But in some cases, that is fastest. | |
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| | | KearnstdSpace Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 8:12 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by Gbcue:said by gworkman:USPS and a floppy disk? Well, thumb drive. But in some cases, that is fastest. that is true when I knew someone who lived rather close to me it was faster to send them a movie by putting it on a flash drive and driving there than it would have been to send it over AIM/Skype/etc. | |
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| | | | Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180
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Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by Kearnstd:said by Gbcue:said by gworkman:USPS and a floppy disk? Well, thumb drive. But in some cases, that is fastest. that is true when I knew someone who lived rather close to me it was faster to send them a movie by putting it on a flash drive and driving there than it would have been to send it over AIM/Skype/etc. hmm, reminds me of. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. of course now a days with 1TB hard drives so "cheap"..... | |
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| KearnstdSpace Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ |
to thegeek
IMO all services should be required by law to advertise the actual base out the door price for their services including all taxes and fees.
Its funny cities like SF will go and require radiation warnings on cell ads but no city yet has the balls to require actual pricing to be posted. | |
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| Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
1 recommendation |
to thegeek
I should start selling $1* cars.
*Taxes and regulatory fees extra. | |
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Brantford
Anon
2011-Aug-26 3:26 pm
Re: On one hand bullshit, on the other so what.said by Gbcue:I should start selling $1* cars.
*Taxes and regulatory fees extra.
**Tires, brakes, steering, transmission, engine, electrical system and fuel tanks are all optional and available at extra cost. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 9:00 am
Where's the Government?If this fee is not included in the advertised price of the service, then this is false advertising. Isn't this still a crime? | |
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jp498
join:2011-08-01
Rockland, ME
1 recommendation |
jp498
Member
2011-Aug-24 10:08 am
HSI Surcharge CrapI'm a service provider and wish everyone could put their fees and taxes into the basic advertised price of the service. It would make end user cost estimating a lot easier and reduce suspicion and distrust between the provider and the consumers. However, some fees we are not allowed to include in the price of the service, 911 for instance. And we must call it a surcharge and not a tax. » www.mainelegislature.org ··· 927.htmlAnd if you have to separate one tax, might as well itemize the others unfortunately. As a consumer, I wouldn't put us with an HSI Surcharge crap, even if it's fully legal. I'd see it and run. It's spells telecom scum to me. | |
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talz13
Member
2011-Aug-25 8:34 am
Re: HSI Surcharge Crapsaid by jp498:I'm a service provider and wish everyone could put their fees and taxes into the basic advertised price of the service. It would make end user cost estimating a lot easier and reduce suspicion and distrust between the provider and the consumers.
However, some fees we are not allowed to include in the price of the service, 911 for instance. And we must call it a surcharge and not a tax.
»www.mainelegislature.org ··· 927.html
And if you have to separate one tax, might as well itemize the others unfortunately.
As a consumer, I wouldn't put us with an HSI Surcharge crap, even if it's fully legal. I'd see it and run. It's spells telecom scum to me.
True, you have to itemize them on the bill, but does that prevent you from advertising the total price after surcharges and fees? | |
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BSThat's like GM tacking on a $5,000 "Cadillac Surcharge" because I bought a Buick. | |
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tmc8080
Member
2011-Aug-24 10:52 am
one day..you have to look at where you live and say.. it's too broadband piss poor and MOVE! then when the goverment realizes WHY everyone moved away, they can scratch their ass and do right by the people by acutally have some competition..
you think when bridges & tolls go up to $15 in the NY metro area that you won't see people leave NY in droves?!? However, that'll be the last toll collected by millions of people leaving the state! (by 2015). | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA |
elray
Member
2011-Aug-24 2:13 pm
As ye SowSo long as the people promote niggling line-items for taxes - USF, Al Gore, 911, TDD, High Cost Fund A/B, LNP, Spanish-American War, FCC/Federal Access, etc - carriers will find it convenient to insert a few of their own.
If the people were to demand that carriers and ISPs "eat" the taxes, we would all benefit - corporate lobbyists would work to minimize the bite. Instead, because they can pass them along, we pay through the nose. | |
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manmaniac
Anon
2011-Aug-24 2:30 pm
HSI SurchargeI spoke to a friend who works at the Frontier Office in Everett. She said, "the fee is for customers who are out of contract". It is being used to cover the cost of upgrading the network backbone. As Frontier has the smallest backbone of the major small carriers. As any of us with Frontier know from the hops it takes to get anywhere on the web. | |
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|  pnjunctionTeksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON |
Re: HSI SurchargeWhat she means is "we can't stick people on contract with the fee until they renew". It is plainly stated in that renewals (and certainly new contracts) get the fee. | |
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Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2011-Aug-24 3:36 pm
Let Frontier Add More Fees!No regulation. No more government.
I say nay to those things!
We need no regulations so that our air & water can be polluted! | |
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Now we see
Anon
2011-Aug-24 4:39 pm
Re: Let Frontier Add More Fees!Yep. This is what the GOP means by "getting the government out of the way so that business can create jobs". Bullcrap! We need regulations to prevent business from only acting in its self interest. Without regs, we'd have undrinkable water, unbreathable air, dangerous workplaces, and con jobs on pricing. Like we have now. | |
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