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Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemWill this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modem and does not go past that but is still counted?
upload data?
ISP rounding? | |
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 |  SeleniaGentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR |
Selenia
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 9:27 am
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemUpload data will be counted, as will anything going through it in either direction. ISPs(even the worst) have not charged for ARP packets and other "noise" thus far. I can't picture them doing that because that may be enough to demand regulation. Robbing the consumer with overages is one thing, but charging for noise(some of which only the modem "hears") could possibly qualify as fraudulent. ISPs don't want regulation out of something like that any more than we want caps. | |
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| | wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH |
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemsaid by Selenia:ISPs(even the worst) have not charged for ARP packets and other "noise" thus far. I can't picture them doing that because that may be enough to demand regulation. And how do we really know what they are counting or not? As soon as they introduce a meter, then it needs to be regulated to protect the consumer. ISP's, be careful what you ask for.... CW | |
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Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemsaid by wentlanc: As soon as they introduce a meter, then it needs to be regulated to protect the consumer. ISP's, be careful what you ask for.... CW Thess f*cking ISPs want to pretend they're offering a simple, above-all casual service, but the reality is that connectivity has become a utility. And since the greedheads insist on caps/throttling to "manage" their network, if they want to install metered tiers, then fine. Let's regulate Internet connectivity the exact same way all the other utilities that meter are regulated. Of course that means that manufacturers like Netgear (and greedhead ISPs) probably won't be able to keep up with stringent federal regulations imposed on meters. | |
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Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemIf ISPs were regulated they'd have to reveal how much data transferred actually costs them. Estimates put the number very, very low, and it would certainly be interesting to find out what it really is. | |
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Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemThere's a discussion over on WebHostingTalk right now about how low data rates per megabit will go. Right now, if you can get to Hurrican Electric's points of presence in the big cities, you're looking at $1.50 per megabit on a two-gigabit commit. Of course, then you have to pay for the transport from those big cities down to the customer, and HE isn't exactly the best bandwidht out there. However $10 per megabit at the backbone to any of the bigger cities is absolutely reasonable.
Of course, then you have to traverse the middle and last miles. If you're like CableOne and buy bandwidth after the middle mile you're probably getting a rather raw deal ($70 per Mbit). That or you're stringing your own, fiber which is also expensive. | |
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|  FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
1 edit |
to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modem and does not go past that but is still counted? upload data? ISP rounding? ARP data does go past a cable modem. I have tracked that in the past before I had a router and captured all the data coming to the PC. | |
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Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemThat's true because your modem is pretty much acting as no more than a handler, merely passing EVERYTHING that comes through it. Your router, on the other hand, is prone to blocking ARP data from the internal network (NAT). That's why everyone ask if packets such as those will be counted; because 99% of the time, someone is not going to see them on their network. | |
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1 recommendation |
to FFH5
Yep. I have Comcast and my Zoom 5241 cable modem, being the dumb box that it is, passes a good bit of ARP etc. traffic to my router, which then tracks it in DD-WRT.
I'm pretty sure my router isn't serving internet to anyone at the moment, or not much anyway, as I'm in Texas and it's in Colorado with WPA enabled. Anyway, with one computer in sleep mode (so it only responds to WOL packets from the local network) I'm getting about 175 MB down and 30 MB up of noise traffic per day now. This is significantly more than before DOCSIS 2.0 was implemented in my area; it was about 80-90 MB down and 1 or 2 MB up then (weighted average would put the average at 82 MB).
Now since I'm looking at a 250GB soft cap from Comcast I'm a bit more okay with this traffic (which by the way amounts to 5-7 GB per month if it keeps up like it has been recently) than if, say, TWC counted it on their former capped plans. But I'd hope that the measurement equipment is far enough upstream of all that crap that only packets you've personally requested get counted toward your total.
Wishful thinking I know, but on ARP-heavy systems like cable I think it's pretty important. | |
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| | | FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 8:53 pm
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemsaid by iansltx:Anyway, with one computer in sleep mode (so it only responds to WOL packets from the local network) I'm getting about 175 MB down and 30 MB up of noise traffic per day now. This is significantly more than before DOCSIS 2.0 was implemented in my area; it was about 80-90 MB down and 1 or 2 MB up then (weighted average would put the average at 82 MB). With Docsis 1.1 and on my router, I see about 10/1 kbps of noise traffic. That comes to about 3.3 GB/month down & 1/10th of that up. | |
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to Joe12345678
well i will sell my net gear screw this i buy product to use not to keep tabs on me. Well linksys will get my money if netgear dose this.. | |
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| |  hayabusa3303Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC |
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemsaid by astiyosti1 :
well i will sell my net gear screw this i buy product to use not to keep tabs on me. Well linksys will get my money if netgear dose this..
its only a matter of time before linksys does it also. | |
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| | KearnstdSpace Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ |
to astiyosti1
said by astiyosti1 :
well i will sell my net gear screw this i buy product to use not to keep tabs on me. Well linksys will get my money if netgear dose this..
i see it as the meter is to keep your own tabs on bandwidth use, just like DD-WRT. | |
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| | | dentman42
Premium Member
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH |
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemsaid by Kearnstd:said by astiyosti1 :
well i will sell my net gear screw this i buy product to use not to keep tabs on me. Well linksys will get my money if netgear dose this..
i see it as the meter is to keep your own tabs on bandwidth use, just like DD-WRT. er, maybe not... » www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· er_vuln/ | |
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to Kearnstd
Exactly. it's not in Netgear's interest to meter stuff one way or another, so I'd trust Netgear/DD-WRT/Tomato/Linksys over TWC/Comcast/CableOne.
It'd be lovely to say to CableOne "Actually, I have a Netgear router that keeps tabs on all my bandwidth; you can see its MAC address associated to my account. It has been on all the time I've been online and by its meter I'm well under your bandwidth cap. Now stuff yourselves." | |
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| jjeffeoryjjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN |
to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modem and does not go past that but is still counted? upload data? ISP rounding? That's the big problem for me. If we eventually go metered, I do NOT and WILL NOT pay for ads being pushed down my throat, and pings and other data spam sent to my network. How is the ISP going to differentiate? It's NOT. It's going to charge you 10 ways till Tuesday and the gov't is going to let them get away with it. It's terrible I tell you. 8-) It is terrible, but I'm trying to go a little over the top for effect. | |
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1 recommendation |
Re: Will this tack arp data and other data that hit's the modemOn the ads portion of things, I have one caveat for that: you pay for the power to run your TV, even while it's showing ads. Also, ads aren't terribly big items anyway, and they're not your ISP's fault, generally speaking.
Though if Comcast did heavy metering I would expect them to take ads off of their home page to save consumer bandwidth. Just take them off for Comcast IPs, so they aren't double-dipping, charging you for bandwidth on one side while using some of that bandwidth to deliver ads to you on the other. That's just crappy. | |
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SeleniaGentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR |
Selenia
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 9:23 am
A hardware company keeping with the timesAs more and more ISPs engage in the tyranny of caps and robbing the consumer, demand for such tools will be commonplace. There is already some demand, hence why third party firmware already does it. This feature costs almost nothing to implement, so hopefully all router brands will make it standard. | |
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|  Jodokast96Stupid people piss me off.
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
NJ |
Re: A hardware company keeping with the timessaid by Selenia:As more and more ISPs engage in the tyranny of caps and robbing the consumer, demand for such tools will be commonplace. There is already some demand, hence why third party firmware already does it. This feature costs almost nothing to implement, so hopefully all router brands will make it standard. Or is it a hardware company doing this at the behest of the ISP's to make it easier for them to implement? Just something to ponder. | |
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| |  yockTFTC
Premium Member
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH |
yock
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 9:59 am
Re: A hardware company keeping with the timessaid by Jodokast96:Or is it a hardware company doing this at the behest of the ISP's to make it easier for them to implement? Just something to ponder. My thoughts exactly. Getting bandwidth meters into consumers' hands benefits the ISPs who want to meter bandwidth. It removes a major impediment to implementing metered billing with little to no cost to them. | |
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| | |  S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL |
Re: A hardware company keeping with the timeswhile thats a possibility, that would prove to be a billing nightmare. Any discrepencies could then be blamed on the 3rd party firmware for which the ISP is not responsible for.
A second thought, DD WRT already does this. Buy a $35 Linksys and throw DD WRT on it. The advanced functions alone are worth doing it. | |
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| | | | yockTFTC
Premium Member
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH |
yock
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 1:56 pm
Re: A hardware company keeping with the timesThey don't have to bill based on it, just do a reasonable amount of testing to ensure that their tool matches the consumer's tool. The idea here is to get people accustomed to monitoring their usage, and having such a usage meter become ubiquitous among consumer products goes a long way toward that goal. | |
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| | | | | S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL |
Re: A hardware company keeping with the timesThis is a sad when we're talking about the ISP training the end user to monitor his/her meter like they watch a gas gauge on a car. 5 years ago if I told you we would be having this conversation you would have said I was nuts. So whats changed?
Video content+lack of effective FCC oversight+a more desirable billing model from providers= stifling technogical advances and exponentially higher prices for the consumer, all while not solving congestion problems.
I've said this before and I'll say it again...it's time to regulate broadband as a utility, and define a cap as a price. This way a PUC or other body could scrutinize the providers claims as far as pricing and the necessity for caps. If it's got a meter...its a utility! | |
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| | | |  David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL |
to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:while thats a possibility, that would prove to be a billing nightmare. Any discrepencies could then be blamed on the 3rd party firmware for which the ISP is not responsible for. A second thought, DD WRT already does this. Buy a $35 Linksys and throw DD WRT on it. The advanced functions alone are worth doing it. I agree, any last firmware updates from DD-WRT have the function already built in. I am finding out I don't even hit the 80GB monthly cap for elite. The highest month I had so far to date since last reset was 25GB. | |
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No needI wont need it, if my ISP decides to start metering my internet I am dropping them. Not getting ripped off by these overpriced CEO's. | |
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Re: No needEven without meter's it's a good piece of functionality for network administration since it gives you a good idea of what percentage of your pipe is being used. | |
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|  TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA |
to Nightwchtr
And what if all of the ISPs in your area start metering? Would you go back to dial-up? | |
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Netgear To Make Consumption Meters 'Standard'  I hope Netgear will provide some kind of power backup system for usage counters. Right now if I lose power I lose the accumulated usage data stored in my RP-614. It would be handy if the router could send a usage report via email each day with daily usage and an accumulated usage report as a comma delimited csv file. | |
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| FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
2 edits |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 11:16 am
Re: Netgear To Make Consumption Meters 'Standard'said by Mr Matt: I hope Netgear will provide some kind of power backup system for usage counters. Right now if I lose power I lose the accumulated usage data stored in my RP-614. The router doesn't have to lose the usage counters on power outages. My Linksys router doesn't lose the traffic data when powered off(I am using DD-WRT custom firmware).I assume the data is stored in the same memory where the firmware is stored - non-volatile memory. Of course, a firmware upgrade on the router could wipe out the traffic counters. Or a reset of the router could do it too. But just a power outage should be able to leave the data intact, depending on how Netgear coded the firmware. | |
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Re: Netgear To Make Consumption Meters 'Standard'Tomato (similar custom firmware to DD-WRT) has the option to backup your bandwidth accumulation to your computer. Every hour, mine saves all the info to my desktop if its up and running. So power outage, firmware updates or the router dying, I'll still be able to access my history for almost a year now. | |
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1 recommendation |
Crazy...The premise of caps is so ridiculous.
Why is it that Cox's has no caps on its fastest speed tiers? These would use the most bandwidth, would they not?
Its funny how a cable company needs caps until they have competition from fiber, then the need suddenly disappears.
What a F'n joke. | |
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Small ISP's will love itSmall ISP's or dsl services will gain more users if Time Warner or any of them start capping bandwidth. The day I heard Time Warner was testing bandwidth limits I left them after 9 years and went with a local DSl "dslextreme" and I will leave them and find another if I get capped, its a matter greeeeeeeeeeeeeed. And I will no longer support netgear products, for they are playing into the hands of the greedy.. | |
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Re: Small ISP's will love itRight...if only there were competition everywhere. | |
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to Randypinball
I havn't left RR yet but I am watching very closely. The moment they do place caps in the Ohio area I will move over to the local telco dsl service even though I am not a huge fan of it. | |
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 John Galt6Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp |
Free Monitoring ToolFor those who have a interest, here is a free monitoring tool: » www.softperfect.com/prod ··· networx/Works great, has a lot of functionality and reporting. Ad-free, no spyware. | |
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| nishiko7
Premium Member
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA |
nishiko7
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 3:09 pm
Re: Free Monitoring ToolJohn,
Thanks so much for the recommend. I had tried a couple bandwidth meters that I didn't like much. So far, the one you recommended seems awesome! I noticed it even has an option to network other Networx clients running on other computers on your LAN so you know the total bandwidth easily. Haven't tried that yet, but it seems awesome. Just amazing software. If it turns out as good as it seems (stable, etc), I will probably be making a donation to the maker (they have a donate button by the download button). I will also be leaving a positive rating on download.com (if it's what meets the eye so far).
Thanks again! | |
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No no and no.These in/on router meters should ONLY be used by the owner of the router to keep the ISP honest. These meters are not something an ISP thinks they should be able to use to get out of providing one from the ISP to use with their silly caps. | |
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 Hpower
join:2000-06-08
Canyon Country, CA |
Hpower
Member
2009-Jul-21 11:26 am
.My tomato flashed firmware linksys router has had a bandwidth usage logging tool always. Never used it really lol. | |
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 Mellow
Premium Member
join:2001-11-16
Salisbury, MD |
Mellow
Premium Member
2009-Jul-21 12:16 pm
Monthly logsWonder if it will keep on counting packets until you manually reset it at the end/beginning of the month or will it auto reset? If it auto resets hopefully you can pull up last months amounts to verify if the provider charges for going over your cap. | |
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| jjeffeoryjjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN |
Re: Monthly logssaid by Mellow:Wonder if it will keep on counting packets until you manually reset it at the end/beginning of the month or will it auto reset? If it auto resets hopefully you can pull up last months amounts to verify if the provider charges for going over your cap. How would it know when to auto reset? Everyone's billing date is their own. I'm sure it will not auto reset. | |
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA |
public
Member
2009-Jul-21 7:21 pm
Why is This News??
Traffic Meter – Ensure accurate measurement of download and upload traffic daily, weekly and monthly with customized alerts
All versions of dd-wrt as well as other firmware had this for quite some time.
Netgear broke down and invested a bag of onions to have someone in Bangalore implement a traffic monitor.
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good luck...good luck selling broadband service on metered terms, let alone a router that meters the access...
unless your in a captive (aka, monopoly market..) RUN if you can, far, far away from that market.. maybe fleeing tax dollars will spur government (divine intervention) | |
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 PDXracer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-13
Vancouver, WA |
PDXracer
Premium Member
2009-Jul-22 3:55 pm
I want recordsIf they wanna pull this BS on american consumers, then I want a detailed printout of my usage per month once the bill comes.
I am sure this is gonna amount to a ream or two of paper having to be printed and mailed (with the expense to them to send it).
Why is America to the point that our main motivation is how bad we can screw each other in the ass with bad service and high fees for everything? | |
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?Will this come as a update on all netgear routers? | |
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I hope Netgear will provide some kind of power backup system for usage counters. Right now if I lose power I lose the accumulated usage data stored in my RP-614.
