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Rogers' New Throttling System Cripples Speeds
And inadvertently impacting non-P2P applications
Canadian cable operator Rogers has been one of the most aggressive ISPs in terms of playing whac-a-mole with P2P users over the last five years. In addition to service tiers featuring some of the lowest caps and highest per gig overages in North America, Rogers has a long history of using various methods to throttle P2P users, even when encrypted. Judging from numerous posts in our Rogers forum, Rogers' latest deep-packet-inspection based throttling effort has crippled user speeds substantially, and in some cases the technology appears to be impacting non-P2P applications. Back in October, Rogers admitted the problems in our forums:
quote:
Hey all - we've been following the conversation here and wanted to jump in with an update. As some of you are aware, Rogers recently made some upgrades to our network management systems that had the unintended effect of impacting non-p2p file sharing traffic under a specific combination of conditions. Our network engineering team is working on the best way to address this issue as quickly as possible. However, I'm not able to provide any updates at this time about when this will be fixed. Our network management policy remains unchanged. You can find details of our policy here. We are working hard to ensure that there are no gaps between our policy and the technology that enables that policy.
Several months later and Rogers customers are still having speed issues, which have now caught the eye of bloggers and websites like Torrent Freak. Rogers customers in our forums have also contacted Canadian Regulators the CRTC in the hopes of having the problems resolved. Like the U.S., Canadians currently enjoy no network neutrality protections and enjoy regulators largely dictated by incumbent operator interests. However, carriers are required to be transparent about exactly what network management is being used, so that consumers have clear information on the kind of connection they're buying. In the case of Rogers customers, it's a connection that only works some of the time.
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC

grunze510

Member

Rogers's slogan.

Rogers Internet: The Fastest and Most Reliable. *

* Guaranteed speed of 80Kbit/s.
st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA

st7860

Member

Re: Rogers's slogan.

move to Vancouver.

Here, telus does not throttle nor cap nor track your ADSL usage, and no PPP password nonsense to deal with. just sign up for adsl, plug in your modem, and your router, and bingo.

and in Vancouver, in apartments less than about 10 years old, you can get fiber, for $33 a month, 20 down, 10 up. $83 for 40 down, 10 up, and $268 for 200 down, 10 up

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: Rogers's slogan.

said by st7860:

and in Vancouver, in apartments less than about 10 years old, you can get fiber, for $33 a month, 20 down, 10 up. $83 for 40 down, 10 up, and $268 for 200 down, 10 up

Fibre with only 10mbps UPLOAD no matter the plan, WHAT A JOKE!
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Rogers's slogan.

You can get symmetric if you're willing to pay more. As in, 200 Mbps symmetric!

»www.novusnow.ca/services ··· rnet.php

Rexter
Libertas, Aequitas, Veritas
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9

Rexter

Member

Keep Government out fo this.

The Rogers market is prime for another company to come in, and do it better. Oh this is Canada, government intervention will prevent that from happening.

Never mind......

MM
@shawcable.net

MM

Anon

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

Fios would dominate in east Canada after the abuse of bhell/rogers and their insane overage fees and pathetic caps. Not to mention the mobile markets....
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

1 recommendation

patcat88

Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

And the communists in Canada would promptly LLU the FTTH plant killing any chance of private interests ever investing in it.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

said by patcat88:

And the communists in Canada would promptly LLU the FTTH plant killing any chance of private interests ever investing in it.

LLU = Local Loop Unbundling; I assume.
And yes, if a private company was to spend all that money to install FTTH and then be forced to open it up to competitors who had not invested 1 dime, that would certainly kill any interests in investing in FTTH.

But isn't that what the "gov't always knows best crowd" wants - force the gov't in to installing FTTH at taxpayer expense. Except that the gov't is in deficit and won't spend the money either. Catch 22 - Canada doesn't get FTTH either way.

MM
@shawcable.net

MM

Anon

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

Maybe, not sure if it would apply to a none copper network that the public had not invested millions in already. Even so verizon could merely do what bell/rogers do to teksavvy and charge the wholesaler a per gig fee.

»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archi ··· -802.htm
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
and that is why Bell has agreements with CTRC that they do NOT have to share their Fiber network. Why allow Indie ISPs on (like TekSavvy) when they're not spending a dime to build the new network but want a free ride via wholesale access? ISPs need to start steping up and building out something to keeping their customers happy if they want to keep going on- ISPs as in Indie.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

Teksavvy is building fiber in Perth.

Jika
@bell.ca

Jika to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
Ironically Bell didn't invest a dime in the majority of the existing copper infrastructure. The taxpayers did.
LucasLee
join:2010-11-26

LucasLee

Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

said by Jika :

Ironically Bell didn't invest a dime in the majority of the existing copper infrastructure. The taxpayers did.

an often overlooked detail apparently.

Rexter
Libertas, Aequitas, Veritas
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9

Rexter to Jika

Member

to Jika
Heh, that explains a lot about why things are the way they are. You guys are screwed. You'll just have to deal with it.
funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'
join:2010-11-01

1 recommendation

funny_one to Jika

Member

to Jika
said by Jika :

Ironically Bell didn't invest a dime in the majority of the existing copper infrastructure. The taxpayers did.

That's a myth. Bell issued an IPO to raise funds 130+ years ago and bought other telco's in Canada that had built their own copper infrastructure (without taxpayer's money).

The only time Bell was given money from the government was when they were paid to build copper in some areas of Canada (low population areas, for example). It was that, or the Government creates a Crown Corp to do it instead. But then they would have eventually just sold it off to Bell anyhow.

By your logic, any company that's paid to do work for the government is being subsidized with taxpayer money.

Even Teksavvy get's tax breaks from various levels of government. So, I guess their fiber build in Perth is being funded by taxpayers as well?
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

Except there is a big difference between direct and indirect funding.

Oh, and you forgot the Monopoly part with regulated service rates.
funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'
join:2010-11-01

funny_one

Member

Re: Keep Government out fo this.

said by backness:

Except there is a big difference between direct and indirect funding.

Oh, and you forgot the Monopoly part with regulated service rates.

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money. What difference does it make if it's given directly or indirectly (whatever that means), if the end result is the same?

And a monopoly? Yes. But only because no one else wanted to do it. How does that relate to tax payers though?

Anonymous88
Premium Member
join:2004-06-01
IA

Anonymous88

Premium Member

The only thing...

...that's wrong with Canada is their ISPs.

MM
@shawcable.net

MM

Anon

Roger+bhell=duopoly hell

Lucky their main competition is bhell...

»www.ideacouture.com/blog ··· a-month/

"The reason this really bothers me is that Canadian ISPs are setting up a culture that stifles innovation. I can remember (albeit a long time ago) when Internet providers loved to see what their bleeding edge customers were doing to push the barriers of their technology. Complicated caching and compression technologies were invented, modems were bonded together (to get you 128Kbps!), communities would even bond together to deploy ad-hoc networks- all of these things helped push the technology further. My worry is that new entrepreneurs or hobbyist trying to create the next generation of consumer video services will not even get started (in Canada) if they see that they can only deliver service to customers for 7 hours."

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

Thank the CRTC...

The CRTC = A "Nudge and a wink" to the incumbents here in Canada. Sooo many cash cows to be milked. It really is obscene.

Motofreak
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
Oshawa, ON

Motofreak

Premium Member

My hatred for Rogers is at all time high

I'm truly stuck with Rogers

1. I can't go to bell because service for my area sucks (speeds under 3mbit & too far away from CO) Beside I'll get screwed there too!
2. this leaves me with Rogers. I cannot go anywhere else. And I'm been a Cable internet customer since 1996.
3. I truly hate Rogers in the worst way, my hatred is at a all time high, its boils my blood in my veins reading about BS like this.

You take away NNTP access, then personal web-hosting, photo-share services (I didn't used but my wife did) you increase prices yearly, install Caps & change the TOS almost quarterly to suite you. Filtered P2P and you even screwed up there and you don't plan to fix it.

YOU Rogers, the moment I can get half ass service that works, I'm gone !!!

Thanks to the CRTC to let these two company get away with collusion (price fixing) and stifling competition ! Yeah I filed with the CRTC and I was actual called about it, almost 8 weeks later, they told me they can't do anything about it.

I need blood pressure pills just reading this I'm so mad. And if it was legal to for me to send Hate mail I would to Rogers and Bell !

End of my rant.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: My hatred for Rogers is at all time high

and Rogers says GOOD BYE!

MonkeyLick78
join:2002-01-27
Hixson, TN

MonkeyLick78

Member

Re: My hatred for Rogers is at all time high

said by hottboiinnc4:

and Rogers says GOOD BYE!

Wow, cool story bro..
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99 to Motofreak

Member

to Motofreak
said by Motofreak:

And if it was legal to for me to send Hate mail I would to Rogers and Bell !

End of my rant.

Can't you send snail mail in Canada without return address? Can't you just write a blog (and even if they found out and tried to legally challenge you based on libel laws, don't you have proof of truth for defense?) There are so many ways to erase you traces, even on the Internet if you know how.

Its so shocking that Canada as one of the advanced, modern countries in the world would have so 3rd world access to the Internet. Even eastern blocks of former soviet republics in Europe have a lot better and cheaper access (especially Latvia or Estonia).
gruntlord6
join:2010-06-10
Barrie, ON

gruntlord6 to Motofreak

Member

to Motofreak
said by Motofreak:

I'm truly stuck with Rogers

1. I can't go to bell because service for my area sucks (speeds under 3mbit & too far away from CO) Beside I'll get screwed there too!
2. this leaves me with Rogers. I cannot go anywhere else. And I'm been a Cable internet customer since 1996.
3. I truly hate Rogers in the worst way, my hatred is at a all time high, its boils my blood in my veins reading about BS like this.

You take away NNTP access, then personal web-hosting, photo-share services (I didn't used but my wife did) you increase prices yearly, install Caps & change the TOS almost quarterly to suite you. Filtered P2P and you even screwed up there and you don't plan to fix it.

YOU Rogers, the moment I can get half ass service that works, I'm gone !!!

Thanks to the CRTC to let these two company get away with collusion (price fixing) and stifling competition ! Yeah I filed with the CRTC and I was actual called about it, almost 8 weeks later, they told me they can't do anything about it.

I need blood pressure pills just reading this I'm so mad. And if it was legal to for me to send Hate mail I would to Rogers and Bell !

End of my rant.

You can switch to teksavvy.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

Member

Don't forget about Bell Karl

Bell has started to do the same things also!

Throttling MLPP setups, various protocols and even competitive streaming video.

Canada sucks for internet

flyz
@rogers.com

flyz

Anon

Good bye Rogers

I'm glad I'll be done with Rogers in a months time. Hurray for TekSavvy being finally available in my area
Rogers_Chris
VIP
join:2010-12-15
Toronto, ON

Rogers_Chris

Member

Rogers

Hi, this is Chris from Rogers. I'd like to share what we shared with Torrentfreak yesterday.

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion over changes made to Rogers Hi Speed network management that I'm hoping I can help clarify.

We recently started to receive customer complaints regarding degradation in upload and download speeds after we made the latest update to our software.

Let me assure you that Rogers Hi Speed does not manage download traffic. As stated in our policy we only manage upstream traffic of peer to peer (P2P) file sharing at 80 Kbps.

Although not intended, extensive testing has confirmed that we are now managing upstream traffic for some secure protocols running over non-standard ports while doing P2P. Testing also indicated that this had been happening for some time but we had not received any complaints until recently, possibly because this type of usage is fairly uncommon.

We have been in communication with the CRTC. They are aware of the situation and we have been working through the standard processes. Customers can expect Rogers Network Management Policy to be updated shortly to reflect the change, which is in line with current industry standard used by other large ISPs and in line with CRTC disclosure requirements. Specifically, our published network management policy will be amended to clarify that we sometimes manage upstream traffic for some secure protocols running over non-standard ports while doing P2P.

Again, let me repeat that we do not manage downstream traffic.

Thanks,
Chris Clarke, Rogers Social Media
www.twitter.com/rogers_chris
gruntlord6
join:2010-06-10
Barrie, ON

gruntlord6

Member

Re: Rogers

said by Rogers_Chris:

Hi, this is Chris from Rogers. I'd like to share what we shared with Torrentfreak yesterday.

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion over changes made to Rogers Hi Speed network management that I'm hoping I can help clarify.

We recently started to receive customer complaints regarding degradation in upload and download speeds after we made the latest update to our software.

Let me assure you that Rogers Hi Speed does not manage download traffic. As stated in our policy we only manage upstream traffic of peer to peer (P2P) file sharing at 80 Kbps.

Although not intended, extensive testing has confirmed that we are now managing upstream traffic for some secure protocols running over non-standard ports while doing P2P. Testing also indicated that this had been happening for some time but we had not received any complaints until recently, possibly because this type of usage is fairly uncommon.

We have been in communication with the CRTC. They are aware of the situation and we have been working through the standard processes. Customers can expect Rogers Network Management Policy to be updated shortly to reflect the change, which is in line with current industry standard used by other large ISPs and in line with CRTC disclosure requirements. Specifically, our published network management policy will be amended to clarify that we sometimes manage upstream traffic for some secure protocols running over non-standard ports while doing P2P.

Again, let me repeat that we do not manage downstream traffic.

Thanks,
Chris Clarke, Rogers Social Media
www.twitter.com/rogers_chris

Basically, you now screw everyone as soon as p2p is involved at all.

Customer_Joe
@rogers.com

Customer_Joe to Rogers_Chris

Anon

to Rogers_Chris
Hi Rogers_Chris,

You can repeat that as many times as you want but no one buys it. For many customers, download speeds are severely crippled right now and have been since around September. Whether you want to call this "managing downstream traffic" or not is irrelevant to your customers. The bottom line is that these customers are not getting the download speeds they are paying for and it is due to something you changed.

Your post shows that you are either out of touch or you've decided to simply hide your head in the sand on the issue. Both of which are very disappointing.

Thanks,
Joe

Archer0T8
join:2005-01-21
East York, ON

Archer0T8 to Rogers_Chris

Member

to Rogers_Chris
said by Rogers_Chris:

Again, let me repeat that we do not manage downstream traffic.

Bullcrap.

Whenever I have a P2P client connected and running, anything on my connection dies. HTTP, FTP, doesn't matter, it either loads incredibly slowly or stalls outright.

The only way I can get anything out of my internet connection is to not have P2P running... and even then, it's a crapshoot as to whether it works or not.
rezoon
join:2002-02-08
Toronto, ON

rezoon to Rogers_Chris

Member

to Rogers_Chris
BS BS and More BS.

I complained on a weekly basis starting in July when you guys started throttling my neighbourhood to pieces.

To be certain it wasn't just me, I went to 4 different neighbour's houses and noticed the same clampdown. I called and logged complaints from their houses.

The same time I was given the standard line: p2p are not supported applications and that because I used a non Rogers router they couldn't help me troubleshoot the problem! HAHA! So disconnected router went straight from computer to modem wired. They would then say that there was no problems on their end and that I was using unsupported software!

Imagine That!

The second I switched to fibe I was back in business. Thanks for the runaround Rogers!

I've started switching my friends away from rogers to either Tek or Bell Fibe (who coincidentally will issue a written guarantee not to throttle)

elefante
@rr.com

elefante

Anon

Rogers is PITA

My inlaws live in Toronto, (me UNY) so they were essentially paying $40/month for 2/384k and capped at 20 GB, and speeds and quality were all over the place. Now they talk about Netflix in Canada, and I say watch out because you will have a VZW wireless moment if you try to use it. My inlaws are in their 70's and don't even know what 20GB is, but I do -- its a small fart. If that were offered in the US, they would be out of business because TBH that is like PURE MARGIN RIPOFF. There CS sucks BTW, big time and is quite rude (I have found Canadians have no concept of CS).

Long story short, my inlaws moved to Bell (still kept voip.ms) and the link is way more steady and the VOIP is crystal clear.

The rogers guy even told my parents that their phone was land line, and I laughed and looked at the VOIP box sitting in the basement and told them that if the cable were off, the phone would not work. I had to spend 20 minutes explaining it to my inlaws, that Rogers just straight out lied to them (they are canadians so they actually trust corporations -- silly concept).

So anyways Bell is working better, however I'm not sure if they have draconian caps or cost, but in any case for a city the size of Toronto (i live in puny Buffalo), my internet and services are WAY cheaper, stable and faster. Of course I have DSL, cable, and Fios to keep each other in check.

Netflix -> Hell for Canadians

So shame on Canada being so rich in culture, and so poor in infrastructure and not demand more from their utilities. I remember what it was like when I was a kid and NYNEX/Bell was just as bad behaving and expensive.

Canadians have a weird socialist/provincial/capitalist thing going on, and I don't think it is bad, but if they don't fix the internet, they are going to start falling behind as a society because the rest of the world has way better access (and the US sucks compared to a lot of countries).
Labonza
join:2008-08-20
Ottawa, ON

Labonza

Member

Here We Go Again...

I dont think anyone believes that Rogers is not only interfering with P2P downloads, but interfering with connections too. I've seen it with my own eyes as torrents drop in speed dramatically as connections are dropped. And this is new, started in Sept or Oct depending on where you live.

At first I thought that the rollout of SpeedBoost was to blame as for me, when Speedboost showed up is when torrents seem to get flakey.and I thought this would be a temporary problem that would get sorted out.

I have a new theory now...Netflix.

Think about it, people....in the US, Netflix now accounts for 20% of ALL net usage in the evening hours.Assuming that Canada is now roughly the same % ( no figures are available yet), suddenly we have panicking ISPs watching their network usage numbers going through the roof during peak usage periods.

In Rogers case, they decided to fire up their trusty throttle boxes to limit P2P downloads again and in true fashion will not admit it.Any of us who were around when throttling first started about 5 years ago remember the way they woudnt admit it for ages.

At least now, we know what it is. Like I said, only a theory, but I'll bet that's what this is all about.Everything adds up, the timing and the response.

And with Rogers being able to inflict their throttling and caps on resellers next year some time, I must say things are looking rather bleak at the moment.

cmcgilton
join:2001-03-14
Stow, OH

cmcgilton

Member

Not Only Affecting Local Customers But Long Haul Traffic Too

No dobut this company's network for long haul traffic has degraded also, with increased ping and trace route times to Rogers Canadian IP's from the states...
Eldorados
join:2005-11-25

Eldorados

Member

Just how short sighted are they?

It's just unbelievable how ignorant and short sighted Rogers is, let's throw Bell in there too

Do they not realize that everything they are doing is severely p*ssing off their customers, who all now dream of the day when they can drop them for a competitor?

Just look at what is happening in the wireless markets, hopefully the new companies are doing well and Rogers and Bell are bleeding customers.. give it another couple years for them to expand out their coverages, then it will really hit Rogers pockets

Soon a true major 3rd player WILL enter the ISP market and customers will jump ship in hordes to get away from Rogers and Bell due to how they've been treated

It won't happen today nor tomorrow, but it will happen. They have dug their own grave
scorpido
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02
Abbotsford, BC

scorpido

Premium Member

Re: Just how short sighted are they?

Rogers_Chris no offence, but your word is not worth crap, the reason why is that your just a very small pawn in a much bigger company that tells you what to say to try and stop people from bitching. Well you just walked into a forum where people are informed and most even have a degree in computers of some sort. so when you come out with some BS corporate statement like that, then you just making yourself look like a idiot since EVERYONE know that it is just that..BS. I am on Rogers and DID like it and raved to others about how your speeds were wicked compared to Bells, but now that Rogers has started to throttle the living shit outta everything, well your service has pretty much gone to the crapper. Who needs 25 or 50mbs service when the only thing you get it on is http. On my wireless internet service I offer a 2meg service and people who do run torrents still download at over 500k/sec. so again, tell us all the truth, why are you now throttling downloads for p2p, also let me guess, your internet terms of use and throttle policy has been updated because to many people caught it? Like I said, just a pawn who is told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it in a much larger company.