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T-Mobile To Unveil 42 Mbps HSPA+ At CES
As well as a number of supporting phones and tablets
T-Mobile will be formally introducing the company's latest round of HSPA+ upgrades at CES in January, according to sources speaking to the Wall Street Journal's All Things D blog. The upgrades, as we've explored frequently, should be theoretically capable of downstream speeds up to 42 Mbps, though real world speeds should be about half that. "T-Mobile is big on Android, big on faster 4G speeds and big on 4G devices including tablets," says the company, clearly suggesting you'll see a variety of smartphones and tablets unveiled at the show that are compatible with this latest round of upgrades. T-Mobile will need to make substantial noise to overshadow Verizon, who'll be unveiling a number of LTE devices (including potentially the iPhone) at the event.
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Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

That's fast.

Yeah!

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium Member
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Duramax08

Premium Member

Re: That's fast.

till you hit dial up speeds.....

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

Re: That's fast.

said by Duramax08:

till you hit dial up speeds.....

It's going to be changed once they realize how fast you'll hit the cap with these new speeds.

Instead of being throttled to dial-up, they might just throttle you to HSPA speeds.
ydoucare
join:2003-03-12
Lafayette, IN

ydoucare to Gbcue

Member

to Gbcue
yeah...if you're lucky enough to be in a Tmo coverage area.

thender
Screen tycoon
Premium Member
join:2009-01-01
Brooklyn, NY

thender

Premium Member

Re: That's fast.

Concurred.

Everytime I work on a T-Mobile phone I have to walk over to the window and stick the phone out and dial the office to convince the customer it works.

I get 400-500 kbps with Verizon, but I get it everywhere.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

1 recommendation

en102 to Gbcue

Member

to Gbcue
T-Mobile will catch up to Bell Canada.
»www.bell.ca/shopping/Prs ··· ool.page

dfasfasdf345
@thvilledigital.net

dfasfasdf345

Anon

Re: That's fast.

Or when they get a few million devices out there and there capacity goes all to hell..

Dialup for all.

marketeer
@charter.com

marketeer

Anon

Wireless Net-Neutrality?

If they keep just under wireline broadband speeds will wireless telecommunications companies be exempt from FCC packet discrimination rules in perpetuity?

hmm...

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

They're really pushing their "4G" branding

Even though HSPA+ is technically not 4G.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: They're really pushing their "4G" branding

said by fifty nine:

Even though HSPA+ is technically not 4G.

Don't beat a dead horse. That topic was done to death last week.
flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ

flyingjoey to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
Regardless of what it is... 42Mbits is fast as hell... I actually tested VZ's LTE and I saw 20 down and about 6up which wasn't bad at all.

Too bad they're offering those speeds and low caps.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

Even though HSPA+ is technically not 4G.

Yes it is. Keep up.

»ITU: Just Kidding, Call Whatever You Want '4G' [18] comments

Axekick
join:2005-05-01
Saint Louis, MO

Axekick to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
It's a step above 3G so how would you label it?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Good on 'em

If TMo can get 42M HSPA+ rolled out to their current 21M markets they'll potentially become equal to Verizon in terms of raw download speed in those marets. Thing is, TMo is cheaper and does not chrge overage fees for their MBB plan, so if yu can stand their coverage they're a good deal.

Now if only the providers with 1700MHz spectrum (other than CricKet/MetroPCS) in rural areas could put up dual carrier H+ equipment of their own...

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit

Premium Member

Call me an idiot...

But why is every carrier so focused on speed, rather than reliability? If I was in this industry, I would rather have all of my customers be completely covered in every nook and cranny of the U.S. rather than dump a ton of money into speed, and limit each customer to 10 Gigabytes of transfer. I fail to understand this.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Call me an idiot...

Upgrading software on a handful of cell sites with fiber already running to them is much less expensive than building new sites and deploying new equipment. Hence the big strides we've seen recently in in-town mobile broadband quality...and not so much in the rural areas.

To be honest, T-Mobile in my area will probably stay on GPRS for the next five years, though their HSPA+ network at/near school is wonderful.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue to The Limit

Premium Member

to The Limit
said by The Limit:

But why is every carrier so focused on speed, rather than reliability? If I was in this industry, I would rather have all of my customers be completely covered in every nook and cranny of the U.S. rather than dump a ton of money into speed, and limit each customer to 10 Gigabytes of transfer. I fail to understand this.

Because rural areas aren't profitable.
jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI

jcremin

Member

Re: Call me an idiot...

said by Gbcue:

said by The Limit:

But why is every carrier so focused on speed, rather than reliability? If I was in this industry, I would rather have all of my customers be completely covered in every nook and cranny of the U.S. rather than dump a ton of money into speed, and limit each customer to 10 Gigabytes of transfer. I fail to understand this.

Because rural areas aren't profitable.

Exactly! I live in an EDGE only area. I'd be thrilled if they would at least upgrade the rest of their area to 3g, but as you said, it costs more than they will make on the sites.
soccerguy9
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA

soccerguy9 to Gbcue

Member

to Gbcue
If you're paying attention to TMO's coverage maps, you'll see that their native EDGE network is also expanding into previously unserved areas or areas previously served by partners.

So, TMO is doing both: expanding coverage and increasing speeds.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to The Limit

Member

to The Limit
Even more important... why are the carriers focused on speed vs.
a) coverage
b) pricing (going up quickly due to speed)
c) reliability/consistency (I suspect that this will come with network speed/capacity)

'Yeah - I've got 42Mbps on my cellphone.... paying $60/month for data - and nothing worthwhile to do on it - or make use of those speeds'.

It's a lot like Cable providers offering ~150 HD channels of garbage for $100/month. I'd take 5 good ones for 50/month and be happier.

sapo
Cruising Down Memory Lane
Premium Member
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA

sapo

Premium Member

Re: Call me an idiot...

I was paying $25/mo with Tmobile over a year ago and now I'm paying $20/mo for the 4G. You must be looking at Sprint who is charing $10 extra for 4G and probably Verizon.

dfgf56345345
@thvilledigital.net

dfgf56345345 to The Limit

Anon

to The Limit
Tails,,

People truly do not what this.

Look how much trouble it is for Cell company's to put up cell phone towers. People ALWAYS hold back coverage.

You can google, people trying to stop Cell phone towers all of the US.
travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Bismarck, ND

travelguy

Member

DSL Replacement?

What's the latency like? I've been dealing with Qwest 1.5 DSL that's unlikely to get upgraded anytime in the near future, no cableco service available and would love to find a wireless replacement.

asdfadsfsd34
@thvilledigital.net

asdfadsfsd34

Anon

Re: DSL Replacement?

I have seen from 100-500mils.

But keep in mind about there throttleing.
travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Bismarck, ND

travelguy

Member

Re: DSL Replacement?

I just checked their coverage map - I'm in an EDGE only area, so it becomes a moot point.

del ftl
@comcast.net

del ftl

Anon

Re: DSL Replacement?

Santa fe has 3g coverage in and around it. No hspa+ yet though. Still much better than EDGE.
dotditdot
join:2009-09-23
Santa Fe, NM

dotditdot to travelguy

Member

to travelguy
Most often the latency is around 80-100 ms. You can look at people various speed tests online, they show latency as well.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue to travelguy

Premium Member

to travelguy
The latency is very low. Most of the time less than 150ms.

nycnetwork
join:2000-11-12
Brooklyn, NY

nycnetwork to travelguy

Member

to travelguy
said by travelguy:

What's the latency like? I've been dealing with Qwest 1.5 DSL that's unlikely to get upgraded anytime in the near future, no cableco service available and would love to find a wireless replacement.

Well, this is the latency I'm getting right NOW on T-Mobile in NYC:
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Throttled Speeds

I'm curious if T-Mobile ever intends to increase the throttled speeds you get after you go over your 10 GB cap.

If a customer is throttled back to old 3G speeds I think that would be a great attraction to many customers.

fasdfasdf345
@thvilledigital.net

fasdfasdf345

Anon

Re: Throttled Speeds

That will never happen.

The reason they throttle is HSPA+ does not have and will never have the capacity that LTE and WiMAX have.

They have to go to HSPA+ 42mb, in order to be competitive and they know it. Once a few million people get on the network the speeds will come crashing down fast.

In a few years they will be in the same place they were in with 2G.

They are just going cheap, Tmobile has spend hundreds of millions on HSPA+ BUT Sprint and Verizon has spent billions on there 4G networks. Its a long race not a sprint...

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: Throttled Speeds

said by fasdfasdf345 :

That will never happen.

The reason they throttle is HSPA+ does not have and will never have the capacity that LTE and WiMAX have.

They have to go to HSPA+ 42mb, in order to be competitive and they know it. Once a few million people get on the network the speeds will come crashing down fast.

In a few years they will be in the same place they were in with 2G.

They are just going cheap, Tmobile has spend hundreds of millions on HSPA+ BUT Sprint and Verizon has spent billions on there 4G networks. Its a long race not a sprint...

Incorrect on just about every count.

First and foremost, the only reason why WiMax (in the USA) has so much capacity is because there's 120mhz that Clear can use for it. LTE doesn't have that kinda capacity. If it did, Verizon wouldn't have the SAME 5GB CAP for LTE that TMO does for HSPA+.

The reason T-Mobile is investing in HSPA+ is the same reason why almost every carrier outside of the US (that's not government funded, like Telia-Sonera) is holding off on LTE. For GSM operators, it's just not worth the investment. Didja notice that the only operators pushing so hard for WiMax and LTE are also the only operators with EOL CDMA networks (or, are state-funded)? There are many reasons for that. HSPA+ has evolved along with LTE and LTE-A in the 3GPP release specs. So when things like MIMO were proposed for LTE, they were then also implemented into the specs for HSPA+.

So, if you're saying that T-Mobile is "going cheap", then every other GSM carrier on the planet is "going cheap" too. The fact is, that HSPA+ has a long ways til its EOL - and GSM operators know this. Why on earth would they invest in LTE when the benefits it provides are negligible to upgraded HSPA+ (which currently has 42mbps, 56mbps, and 84mbps profiles already ratified and ready for testing and deployment).

Of course TMO has to go to 42mbps HSPA+ to be competitive. Just like Verizon HAD to go to LTE to be remotely competitive. Once 42mbps is maxed out, TMO is going to 84mbps to be competitive. That's kinda how the industry works. And it just so happens that sticking with HSPA+ means that all of those UMTS phones can STILL work, while other HSPA+ data stick users can get maxed out speeds - all on the same UMTS/HSPA+ network. They can continue to expand their UMTS 3g network coverage in rural areas, while upgrading the speeds on that same UMTS network in urban areas that need to speeds and capacity. No dual-mode, battery draining handsets.

Other than it being "new", LTE doesn't provide any real benefits to UMTS/HSPA operators that HSPA+ can't do. HSPA+ speed tests posted on HoFo show pings as low as 30ms. That's more than sufficient for VoIP (one of the driving arguments for LTE). And speeds continue to increase using almost identical methods that LTE uses for its higher speeds (Multiple Carrier, MIMO). Essentially the only real differences are the radio technologies used. WCDMA versus OFDMA/SC-FDMA. But the small hit on spectrum efficiency is more than outweighed by the significantly lower cost of expanding and improving the UMTS networks.

nycnetwork
join:2000-11-12
Brooklyn, NY

nycnetwork

Member

Re: Throttled Speeds

To prove your point, here is another 30's ms speed test on T-Mo's HSPA+ in NYC.

Dread
On course
Premium Member
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY

Dread to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

I'm curious if T-Mobile ever intends to increase the throttled speeds you get after you go over your 10 GB cap.

If a customer is throttled back to old 3G speeds I think that would be a great attraction to many customers.

My wife's phone was throttled and she only used 5.2gb
I don't think the cap is 10.
El Gaupo
Premium Member
join:2006-07-15
Buckhorn, NM

El Gaupo

Premium Member

Really

And the cell sites are feed by a couple of T1's.
How is this possible ?

••••

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium Member
join:2001-08-02
La Porte, IN

ztmike

Premium Member

Upgrade existing 3G sites?

Has T Mobile said they would upgrade existing 3G sites to HSPA+? Because the way its looking my area is going to be forever till then, we have 3g now though.
dotditdot
join:2009-09-23
Santa Fe, NM

dotditdot

Member

Re: Upgrade existing 3G sites?

They haven't said any specifics, but if you look at the coverage over the past year, they have been upgrading the 3G areas to HSPA+. The 3G coverage has grown a lot, and the HSPA+ coverage is "following" it.

tmobile123
@comcast.net

tmobile123 to ztmike

Anon

to ztmike
i just wish tmobile would make 3g work properly with their blackbery bold 9780 and make sure the areas they show solid coverage actually does work.

i am not interested in all these theoretical speeds that no one seems to be able to use.

Genicola
@rr.com

Genicola

Anon

That's pretty fast, but . . .

... I won't be impressed until they perform upgrades on their customer service and business conduct. Unfortunately, in Germany, T-mobile was the only company that had any coverage that was tolerable for most of the 8 years we lived there. I'm not sure how they conduct business in the U.S.(although I've heard nothing but complaints) but they set people up to allow them to make tiny adjustments (such as my husband putting his chip in a different phone and not blocking it from using a roaming internet provider resulting in a phone bill of aprrox. 1,800 euros[equiv. $2,700]). I'd rather go with a dial-up connection than ever deal with T-mobile's substandard customer service and business practices again...

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: That's pretty fast, but . . .

said by Genicola :

... I won't be impressed until they perform upgrades on their customer service and business conduct. Unfortunately, in Germany, T-mobile was the only company that had any coverage that was tolerable for most of the 8 years we lived there. I'm not sure how they conduct business in the U.S.(although I've heard nothing but complaints) but they set people up to allow them to make tiny adjustments (such as my husband putting his chip in a different phone and not blocking it from using a roaming internet provider resulting in a phone bill of aprrox. 1,800 euros[equiv. $2,700]). I'd rather go with a dial-up connection than ever deal with T-mobile's substandard customer service and business practices again...

T-Mobile Germany and T-Mobile USA have entirely separate operations. T-Mobile Germany operates much like ATT does in the US. They're the incumbent, they have the upper hand, and they know they can screw you. TMO USA - being the underdog - works pretty hard to keep you happy as a customer. They win customer service awards. Quite unlike T-Mobile Germany.