dslreports logo
 story category
Time Warner Redefines the DVR
For better or worse...

Time Warner Cable's original network DVR service "Mystro" received rave reviews from trial participants, but the company scratched the system because of legal threats from the broadcast industry. Networked DVRs, which store your content at the network head-end, scare broadcasters who believe they violate existing laws and threaten content control. Cablevision recently scuttled a similar effort for the same reasons.

Click for full size

Time Warner Cable revamped the idea, launching a VOD service dubbed "start-over" in several markets. As the name indicates, the service only lets you start programs over -- while content is still stored remotely. The service won't let you fast-forward through ads and only works for "selected" shows and channels, according to Time Warner.

The company is also launching a new service in South Carolina this October called "Look Back," which allows subscribers to watch previously broadcast episodes of popular TV series. This service, too, makes sure that you can't fast-forward through ads in order to placate broadcasters, and only lets you view programs from that day.

Click for full size
The company tells the New York Times it wasn't just legal worries that sent them down this path; parent company concerns played a part as well:
quote:
"We have a particular sensitivity to the needs of business in every stage in the value chain, because we’re part of a diversified media company," Mr. Stern of Time Warner Cable said.
It will be interesting to see if TWC customers give up their DVRs for such services (which have no additional monthly fee), or if Time Warner Cable users reject the idea because of their desire to avoid advertisements.
view:
topics flat nest 

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

Great.

I live in Sc and all they do is screw around with TV how about faster internet speeds PLEASE. 5/384 is getting slow you know.

jtudor
MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC

jtudor

MVM

Just Wait

It probably won't be long until all the cable companies cripple DVR's to keep you from skipping ads.

That is the most useful feature of the DVR, and it would just kill the business for them I would think.
a98308349823
join:2007-07-03
Portsmouth, NH

a98308349823

Member

Re: Just Wait

Many of the new DVR's will not let you skip ads.
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah to hayabusa3303

Member

to hayabusa3303

Re: Great.

Until they have more Internet customers than TV customers they probably won't bother.

Anonymous88
Premium Member
join:2004-06-01
IA

Anonymous88

Premium Member

Useless

Most people have DVRs because they can skip ads.
Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA

Jonbo298

Member

Re: Useless

Yeah. While DVR's are popular because its easier then trying to use the ol' VCR and whatnot, its the skipping of ads that is most beneficial. I can watch a show like Jericho in 40 minutes rather then having to sit through the entire friggin hour due to ads.

Its mainly why when I watched TV more, I'd just record the show, do something else, and watch it later because I can only waste 40 minutes or so watching the show rather the the entire hour when I can do something else for that entire hour.

jtudor
MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC

jtudor

MVM

Re: Useless

OT --

Hey man, another Jericho fan here.

NUTS to you!

(as one fan to another, I am sure you understand!!)

NPGMBR
join:2001-03-28
Arlington, VA

NPGMBR

Member

Re: Useless

Ditto that. Another Fan here a well.
bmn
? ? ?

join:2001-03-15
hiatus

1 edit

bmn to Anonymous88

to Anonymous88
Exactly. When I watch a Tivo'ed show, I skip all the ads.

Nothing more annoying than watching a show and being bombarded with impotence... Sorry, "ED", drugs every couple of minutes.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

1 recommendation

RARPSL to Anonymous88

Member

to Anonymous88
said by Anonymous88:

Most people have DVRs because they can skip ads.
There is also the advantage of being able to record a show while viewing another that is being aired at the same time as well as doing "Time Shifting" (recording a show for viewing later due to not being there to watch it when it airs or due to it airing at an inconvenient time [such as a rebroadcast when you are sleeping]).

As an example of Time Shifting, I was on vacation a few weeks back and had my DVR record the shows I would normally be watching and then viewed them once I got home.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Anonymous88

Premium Member

to Anonymous88
said by Anonymous88:

Most people have DVRs because they can skip ads.
Second that. Skipping all the commercials is the best part of having a DVR.
ElJay
join:2004-03-17
Portland, ME
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Ubiquiti Unifi UAP-AC-LITE

1 edit

ElJay to Anonymous88

Member

to Anonymous88
With all of the product placement going on today, they should be paying US to watch these shows. I probably would not be watching TV at all if it was not for my MythTV box and its commercial flagging ability. As product placement continues to become more intrusive I will probably get frustrated with it and just give up TV completely. I would not mind saving myself about $700 a year after ditching the cable subscription, not to mention the countless hours I waste watching it.

Sircolby450
join:2005-11-26

Sircolby450 to Anonymous88

Member

to Anonymous88
Couldn't agree more. "The service won't let you fast-forward through ads" That is a deal breaker for me.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

Doctor Four

Premium Member

Why mess with PVRs when there are capture cards

and WinTV?

Then you don't even have to deal with the DRM and other
things such as UOPs (borrowing a term used for DVDs here).

Then you can record TV for later viewing anytime without
any restrictions (though PVR cards may start doing the
same if Hollywood shouts loud enough - and then it would
make older non-DRM crippled cards valuable items.)

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

2 recommendations

dadkins

MVM

Re: Why mess with PVRs when there are capture cards

said by Doctor Four:

and WinTV?

Then you don't even have to deal with the DRM and other
things such as UOPs (borrowing a term used for DVDs here).

Then you can record TV for later viewing anytime without
any restrictions (though PVR cards may start doing the
same if Hollywood shouts loud enough - and then it would
make older non-DRM crippled cards valuable items.)
Damn Right!
Two VAIOs here with TV cards/DVR software(from factory), not to mention the VHS(yeah, still have one hooked up) that has a "Commercial Skip" button on it.

*NO* Fees either!

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four

Premium Member

Re: Why mess with PVRs when there are capture cards

Incidentally, I got my WinTV 250 card along with a VCR-
DVD Player combo so I could transfer my old tapes (though
I found most of the self recorded ones done at the slowest
speed to be of inferior quality and not worth taking the
time to capture.)

It also seems to bypass the standard CSS/CPPM copy
protection found on most older commercial DVDs as well.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Small price to pay

In my area, TW charges $4.95 - $9.95/mo for DVR service. Seems a small price to pay in order to be able to skip commercials.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: Small price to pay

Is that $9.95 including the box, though? Here in SoCal we get nailed with both a $9.95 "DVR Fee" plus another charge for the box:

08/13 - 09/12 DVR Fee 9.95

08/13 - 09/12 DVR Fee 9.95

08/13 - 09/12 Digital Video Receiver 4.24
(includes Remote Control At $.23)

08/13 - 09/12 Additional Digital Video 6.95
Recorder (includes Remote Control At $.23), And Digital Programming Fee

mckenna797
Premium Member
join:2004-08-25
Astoria, NY

mckenna797

Premium Member

Re: Small price to pay

here in NYC the dvr is also the cable box mine is SA 8300hddvr for 9.95, you may need to check with billing your bill looks like your being charge more than once for the same items

Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI

Jwobot

Member

Why are they not picking on VCR users?

I hear a lot of the suits complaining about people skipping commercials and time shiffting with DVR's. But how come they never mention "VCR's" as well?

When you get down to the basics, the two devices are the samething but they never mention VCR's.
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah

Member

Re: Why are they not picking on VCR users?

DVR's are much easier to setup to record than a VCR, this is obviously why they don't worry.

You can't set a VCR to record for a week or 2 worth of shows without changing the tape. Can't really do this on vacation without more than one VCR, which is annoying.

Fast forwarding through commercials is very high speed on a DVR, and not as annoying to rewind if you miss the start of the show after commercial.

DVR's are easy enough, that when people get used to them, they record a lot more than they did on a VCR.

The people that record this much on VCR's and are used to the annoyances are few and far between.

After using DVR's for the last 7 years, I'd never record TV with a VCR again, I'd rather just miss the show.

Not to mention, HD VCR's and HD tapes are expensive and hard to find, and just as annoying.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Why are they not picking on VCR users?

You forgot and over looked the most obvious reason... because when it's digital and hooked into a network, they put their grubby little hands on the device. To date, a VCR is not something they can control.

I will GLADLY spend what ever it takes the day that someone comes out with a DVR which is basically a VCR with out tapes. I don't want a guide that is mandatory, I don't want a monthly fee that is required to even view content I already recorded, and I don't want someone else telling me how I can use and view my content.

The courts have already ruled over and over at every new piece of video viewing technology that people have the fair right to record and use content and always ruled against Hollywood. There was the Beta, the VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, and they lost all of the battles.. Now, they have their hands on the DVR yet no one is looking?

Take Discovery Channel. They can flag the digital version of that network but not analog. As far as I am concerned, its the same program, different delivery.

The current administration sure has made it obvious where their priorities are.

Time to fire them all and set America back on track.

I'm surprised there's not a "hand off my DVR grass roots campaign" already started.

sandwidth
join:2004-10-22
Ontario, CA

sandwidth to Jwobot

Member

to Jwobot
Agreed!

I watched the entire final round of the 89th PGA Championship in less than one hour. (That's almost SIX HOURS worth of programming in less than 1 hour!!!)

I was pressed for time between appointments & managed to watch Tiger win & pretty much catch his entire play time in the round & even the end holding up the trophy & shots of his wife & the baby.

THAT paid for DVR all by itself!!

If they take DVR's away, I may just make the whole friggin' TV go away...........PERIOD!

Rombus
Premium Member
join:2007-04-11
Opelika, AL

Rombus

Premium Member

Why is it TWCs fault?

I love how people like to blame the cable co for not allowing commercial skip.

Its the content providers and the crazy lawsuits that throw fair use out the window thats to blame.
kfleming99
join:2004-02-17
Seminole, FL

kfleming99

Member

Sage TV

I love using my Sage TV setup with unlimited external drives and being able to stream the videos to any TV in the house using a laptop and a S-video cord.

Not to mention the fact that all these serial type shows get canceled mid season. I just record and wait to see if they are getting high enough ratings for a second season b4 I even invest the time in watching the show in the first place. Almost deleted my remaining Jerico shows b4 i watched them and then the nuts campaign actually worked.

TV Worker
@covad.net

TV Worker

Anon

The other side of ad-skipping

As someone who works for program producers that supply network/cable channels, commercial skipping is killing our business. If you wonder why there are so many more reality shows vs dramatic shows, skipping is your answer. Product placement does not come close to offsetting the revenue lost for ad skipping. I'm already preparing to leave the business as well as many others because large scale dramas are for the most part money losers. Diminishing ratings used to be offset by DVD season sales, but they're tanking as well due to illegal downloads (which will disappear, too, when programmers give up). See any new programs on Friday and Saturday nights? They've already been abandoned with the exception of reruns and reality. Don't bother to buy or lease a DVR, YouTube is your viewing future.
BIGHUSKER3
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN

BIGHUSKER3

Member

Re: The other side of ad-skipping

Sweet!
ElJay
join:2004-03-17
Portland, ME

ElJay to TV Worker

Member

to TV Worker
So people got tired of sitting through 16+ minutes of commercials for every hour of TV programming, and the networks are surprised at this? Most of the ads seem to be for either cars or medication, and I don't need to be sold either one of those.

TV Worker
@covad.net

TV Worker

Anon

Re: The other side of ad-skipping

Hey BIGHUSKER and eljay001, after re-reading my post, it may sound as if I'm bitter, in fact, I'm not. This is the natural course of events and has happened to many industries. Without commercial-skipping disabled, the DVR and network/cable model is not likely to last long. In its place will be things like YouTube and Apple TV (direct download). My guess is that iTunes will eventually offer free TV shows with embedded commercials that can't be skipped, giving you the choice to pay for the show without commercials or watch the show for free with. Network and cable shows probably can't exist in its current form if large amounts of people skip commercials. Rating systems are being changed to measure viewing of the commercials, in addition the show itself. Ad spending is jumping to the internet in a big way. And as the audiences go from mass-size to niche size, the amount of big scale shows and money put into them are sure to decrease, lessing the need for a DVR in the first place.

My Opinion
@rr.com

My Opinion to TV Worker

Anon

to TV Worker
Just cause I can't forward the commercials still doesn't mean I'm going to watch it. Most of the commercials treat you like you're a two year old or just plain stupid and I am definitely not interested in sexual enhancements and drugs. Shoving these stupid commercials in my face encourages me to boycott the product rather than buy it. I have learned quite well how to become immune and ignore them.

I find better things to do than watch old reruns and reality shows on TV but when I do watch TV occasionally, I keep a puzzle book and the remote handy so I can mute the TV and then I use my brain for a few minutes instead of being treated like an idiot.

The moral is you can lead a person to the TV but you can never make then watch the commercials.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 edit

fiberguy2 to TV Worker

Premium Member

to TV Worker
Sorry to hear it bud.. but the fact is that you can't force feed someone something they don't want.

Here's a few things:

1) People work hard to avoid ads - it's their right! Telemarketers want the right to annoy people at dinner and feel it's their right to dial up MY phone line that *I* pay for. Broadcasters want to force feed me ads on Cable TV to which I PAY for. What part of that don't they get?

2) If you want the answer as to what's killing your business, stop looking to commercials. That's horse hooey. The self made rating system is a man made self soothing failure. Meaning, their way of measuring the viewer ship of ads is what they want it to be and has little statistical data to really chew on. The system can't measure, or get, that most people get up and simply do other things during a commercial.. No one really pays attention to commercials - period. Advertisers aren't advertising for many other reasons.

What also is killing your business are the very people they employ. To be honest, the people are getting tired of [insert any actor/actress name here] showing up in sex scandals, drinking and driving b.s., in and out of re-hab, and shall I even bother to pick on the Tom Cruises of the world?

They need to cut those idiots from the air or cut their salaries. There is PLENTY of money out there to shore up their industry. Cut them all.. across the board. If they don't want to work for 25% of their normal pay, then these reality shows do JUST fine! These snobs who act on TV will surely take what they can to "act" on TV and still do fine. Enough! The industry is self bloated and has way too much room to trim itself to stay alive.

3) The DVD sales loss to download is a pile of crap spoon fed by the industry. Download sites or viewing sites like YouTube have actually helped sales. People see it and then they want it. I'm only one person testifying to this, but I've looked up things on YouTube and went straight to Best Buy and purchased the series or DVD movie.

I wrote a thread in another topic about business models and why industries are failing. The ones that are failing are being bought out by younger start-up companies. Why? Because the old fogies and old ways of running a business (which is text book one track minded) isn't cutting it with today's more sophisticated consumer.

Younger execs try hard to change things in companies they work for only to be shut down by the old time suits. Eventually, the younger execs leave, start their start up and many times end up buying the "old news" businesses out.

Hollywood and programmers will ultimately wake up and realize that people are turning away from them because of how they treat people. Greed is what is killing them, not YouTube, the DVR or other "excuses".. If they don't knock their crap off, Hollywood will drastically cut back with out choice.

Reality TV is perfectly entertaining to people because people like to relate to their own kind. The Government which is WE THE PEOPLE is no longer a part of us.. it's us vs. them. Once someone becomes part of Hollywood, they are no longer regular folk, they become THEM.. Regular people are tired of being treated like lower class by the few elites in this country who enjoy being someone over others. The rest of us are tired of it.

Hollywood can continue to rot, or evolve and get with modern times.

By the way.. new programs on Friday and Saturday...? That's part of the break down of the family. The break down of Friday and Saturday happened WELL over a decade ago. The last I can remember of any decent weekend programming was Fantasy Island, Dukes of Hazard, and Love Boat. After those shows, the weekends took a dump.. this happened years ago. Families don't sit down and have TV time any more.

I'm sorry but I can't buy a single piece of your post. Not bashing YOU.. just can't agree with a single thing you said.
lab_rat_05
join:2004-08-16
Woodlake, CA

lab_rat_05

Member

Re: The other side of ad-skipping

said by fiberguy2:

I'm only one person testifying to this, but I've looked up things on YouTube and went straight to Best Buy and purchased the series or DVD movie.
Very good post, well said.

i to look up things on youtube or many other sites then go buy them.

how about the DVR have a button to press JUST for Commercials, and with a keyword serch, That way if we want to shop we can, and not get interrupted by the annyoing Commercials right in the middle of a movie.

i say take all Commercials off Every channle.

put them in one place.

Johnny34
Fed Up. Bye.
Premium Member
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA

Johnny34

Premium Member

There is a way

Since viewers are skipping commercials, content producers have done the following:

1. Every "guest" on talk shows is there to hawk a book or other product - i.e. instead of the show paying the guest to appear, the guest pays the show to plug the book or concert tour or record.

2. Every "segment" of Today, GMA, and even news shows is really an advertisement for some product or service. Cooking segments are ads for the restaurant or book or cooking school or some ingredient.

3. Produced dramas are replaced by "reality" because it is cheaper not to have to hire actors. Situation comedies are completely gone.

4. Many other "reports" or "science news" are nothing more than a plug for some door lock, web site, etc. etc. - you name it.

So -- the payment flow has reversed. How to get it back like it was?

1. The cable companies get our money.
2. The cable companies PAY for the content with our money.
3. We DEMAND good content, so cable cos have to demand it as well.
4. Good content gets produced again.
5. If we pay for cable, then cable needs to pay for content. Commercials were SUPPOSED to be to support FREE viewing - not PAID-FOR viewing. Now you have commercials in movie theaters where you paid for a freaking ticket!!

What's keeping this from happening? The monopolies of the cable companies. They have no motivation to pay for content - they want to keep airing the commercials so the content providers can get paid that way, instead of the cable company having to pay them for the content.

Nothing will change until viewers demand commercial-free content if they have already paid for it. If the content is to have commercials, then it should be free to the viewer. That was the original idea.
baylorguy
join:2004-09-30
San Antonio, TX

baylorguy

Member

dvr

why don't you all just stop watching television. There is a reason why they call it television "programming." There are substantially greater ways to enjoy the world than to sit in front of a television for "tv time" with the family.

CDXX
@swbell.net

CDXX

Anon

Get REAL!!!

Time Warner try try again. There is already better stuff out there, so why the hell would we take 5 steps back!!!???

You ask me...Time Warner keeps this kind of shit up and they are on there way out! They are already moving out of Houston, TX.